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Anonymous

What is arrogance?
    #2228111 - 01/08/04 01:40 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I see a lot of claims of 'arrogance' aroung here that don't fit the dictionary definition.

If someone disagrees with you, they're arrogant.
If someone is confident when they express their views, they're arrogant.
If someone makes statements that you don't like, they're arrogant.

:wtf:

Can't we try to be a little more precise in our meanings when we flame people?

:rolleyes:

Recently I made the statement that most people were morons, including Christians.

Immediately a "Christian" claimed I was arrogant.

I was merely passing judgment on what I have observed all my life.  Most people are intellectually lazy which results in asinine and moronic statements that they make, nearly continually, without any critical examination at all.

I said nothing about myself except, in this person's mind, through inference.

I don't get it.


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Registered: 10/23/02
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2228199 - 01/08/04 02:17 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe they think you are using your intellectual expertise to try and put yourself above them, making them think you are arrogant. This could probably explain the majority of scenarios in which this happens in.


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What?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2228242 - 01/08/04 02:28 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

How funny! I was just having this conversation with my guru!

I told him that I described him, on this site, as "arrogant". He took exception, not because he thinks he's "not" arrogant, but because in the situation at that other forum, as I described him, he said he wasn't being arrogant, just self-confident.

\Ar"ro*gance\, n. [F., fr. L. arrogantia, fr. arrogans. See Arrogant.] The act or habit of arrogating, or making undue claims in an overbearing manner; that species of pride which consists in exorbitant claims of rank, dignity, estimation, or power, or which exalts the worth or importance of the person to an undue degree; proud contempt of others; lordliness; haughtiness; self-assumption; presumption.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=arrogance


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinedaba
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2228253 - 01/08/04 02:33 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Mr_Mushrooms:

If you are trying to justify "arrogance" to "morons" who don't care about such connotations of the word, then you are wasting your time. If these "people [who] are intellectually lazy" are the people you are trying to associate with, then obviously you will get "intellectually lazy" responses and remarks!

Ask a question to a fool, and get a foolish answer.

Of course, one is likely to  put a label on some thing (in this case the word "arrogant") that is beyond one's comprehension :rolleyes:.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2228273 - 01/08/04 02:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

At first I thought this had to do with my rating of you.  How arrogant of me to assume that. :smirk:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2228301 - 01/08/04 02:47 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Arrogance goes hand in hand with ignorance. But this in itself is an arrogant statement bacause I presume I know what I'm talking about.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2228852 - 01/08/04 06:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You know... I find the word "arrogant" to be rather useless.

But that might be because I value straightforwardness over tact.
*shrug*


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2229203 - 01/08/04 08:09 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Being condescending, or patronizing all count as arrogance.

Arrogance is also the kind of personal trait that isn't always easily displayed in a single act. Sometimes, after getting to know someone better, you begin to realize through the subtle ways they speak to and treat other people, that they believe themselves to be overall a superior person.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: Phluck]
    #2229356 - 01/08/04 09:05 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

you begin to realize
No, you form an opinion. This is quite different than a realization.

that they believe themselves to be overall a superior person
Perhaps they are. Feelings of worth, control over one's destiny, knowledge and mastery are IMO better than low self-esteem, feelings of hopelessness and being a victim. Do you prefer wishy-washiness, hesitation and confusion in a person? Or someone who acts/speaks as if he/she knows what he/she is doing?


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (01/09/04 01:07 AM)


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: Swami]
    #2229930 - 01/09/04 12:57 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Heh, but what about the detail, that they ACTUALLY know what he/she is doing? Most people feel upset because they think they are being belittled by people who think they know more than they do, sure they are confident, but where does confidence land in the great scheme of things?

I wont be the one to judge that. But to say that just cause someone has great confidence is not the best attibute to behold. Maybe im biased cause i dont feel confident most of the time, others i do. But i even if i felt sure, i dont know if i would project a sense of confidence, unless the circumstances were dire :wink:.


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Offlinebumski
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: djd586]
    #2230760 - 01/09/04 12:13 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

"Arrogance goes hand in hand with ignorance."

So that would make arrogant people argnogant?


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: bumski]
    #2231033 - 01/09/04 02:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Actually i see it as a natural reaction from most christians. In this days and in the mind of most modern man, faith is something that has to be somewhat "consistent", i mean not just a "blind faith" but something which is valid in their mind. Making such mental validations is an empirical game between what you believe and the subject to be believed. In terms of pure logical reasoning, faith is regarded as something invalid, but in fact the modern man tries to rationalize, argue and make valid statements about this empirical issue. As result, you have distorted discussions between christians and atheists or agnostics.
Personally, when some discussion reaches that point, i just let go, my job is not to convert anybody, christians might have the merit of faith but i have the merit of reasoning and that's something i can do by myself and i learn how to do it by myself. Just another way to make this reality valid and contrary to any imposed reality.

Quote:

Arrogance on the part of the meritorious is even more offensive to us than the arrogance of those without merit: for merit itself is offensive.
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)
Human, All Too Human, aph. 332, 1878.




MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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Anonymous

Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2231272 - 01/09/04 03:55 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Lots of great answers. Unfortunately I don't have time to reply to any of them except indirectly. Right now infidelGOD and I are discussing an issue that is very interesting to me and is taking up all of my time.

I'll just say this instead. How do you communicate with those that truly are beneath you in some aspect without appearing, in their minds, as condescending?

I think kids are naturally suspicious of adults and desire to see them in a poor light unless they act like they do. Which is mature for their age but not for an adult.

I'm not 18. I'm not 28. I'm not 38.

Some of the young men here might think at 21 they have it all together. I did too. When I was 21. That was a long long time ago.

Does my age and status make me better than some people that post here?

Yes, without a doubt.

Are there people here that are better than me in certain areas even if they are much younger?

Yes, without a doubt as well.

When I was in 9th grade I had the vocabulary of a sophomore in college. This was because I read constantly. In class I used the same language I was familiar with which was well above the vocabulary level of my classmates. The teachers enjoyed it.

What do you think the students called me?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2231280 - 01/09/04 03:57 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

if someone doesnt consider your views even worthy of refute..and simply responds with :lol:..their arrogant...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Anonymous

Re: What is arrogance? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2231292 - 01/09/04 04:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

So that would make you what?

Yes, I hear that too. It's just like when someone says, "You're wrong" and doesn't explain why.

There are plenty of reasons why a person might just laugh in answer to your statement.

Perhaps they see that argument with you is futile. Do you get a lot of that?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2231386 - 01/09/04 04:35 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i dont see why any argument should be considered futile..and if they think its funny..they should at least explain why its so...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2231425 - 01/09/04 04:50 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I think its important that you just dont place yourself above, given that we are all human, we should at least not act like we are gods. We are all good in some areas where others are not. I do give age that benefit of wisdom, and if i look on someone who i can respect, it is a lot easier to understand their intelligence.

But if someone is going to say that im just a stupid teenager, than i will not have respect for them. Respect is mutual, and I understand that those that are younger should often look at people with age as more experience, which would give them a reason to "hear them out". If you cannot make some common ground, their will be little to no communication at all. A part of finding a common ground is to displace the feelings of arrogance and superority, and let the real points get across.

While i understand i am young, i have had many experiences that many adults have never had, been through some things they have never even thought about. Likewise many adults more things about life than i can even put my grasp on due to my age and individual nature.

You are better in some ways, but not all. We all have our faults. I wish it was easier to accept. Kind of like Mj. Shroomers sig, "we can all be better than we actually are" (goes something like that?)


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What?


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Anonymous

Re: What is arrogance? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2232361 - 01/10/04 12:08 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

That's a great post!  :heart:

I don't think anyone could have said it better.

In one of the steering committee meetings I attend their is this "old guy".  He's like 80 with a PhD.  But the topic the steering committee is focused on is waaaaaaay out of his league.  The fact is that he doesn't know anything about it.

Would I disrespect him?

Not ever.

Why?

He's 80 years old.  I handle it by keeping my mouth shut when he goes on a rant.

Likewise, I know some teenagers at the Shroomery that just amaze me.  They are SO mature I wonder if they ever had a childhood.  And the Shroomerites I met at the Gathering last year were some of the most respectful people I have ever met in a group.  They were AWESOME!

Age is no sign of maturity and youth is no sign of it either in some respect.  But a lifetime of having children, facing the real world, having a career, etc DO provide a person with a different vantage point.  Or at least they should.

Great post! :thumbup:


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Offlinenubious
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Re: What is arrogance? [Re: ]
    #2232790 - 01/10/04 06:19 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Arrogance is also the kind of personal trait that isn't always easily displayed in a single act. Sometimes, after getting to know someone better, you begin to realize through the subtle ways they speak to and treat other people, that they believe themselves to be overall a superior person.




Funny.. that's the general air I get whenever Mr. Mushrooms posts .. excuse me for being cynical...

Quote:

Age is no sign of maturity and youth is no sign of it either in some respect. But a lifetime of having children, facing the real world, having a career, etc DO provide a person with a different vantage point. Or at least they should.




I appreciate your wisdom Mr. M, and I realise that being (probably) half your age (or more) we see things much differently as a whole.. your perception more valid to the complete picture no doubt, but when you come across to some people you're downright snotty about it. You seem to have calmed down a bit since you're no longer a mod (yeah I know... you resigned), so as for now, you're cool in my books (that is, providing I haven't pissed you off too much with this last spurt of bitterness), and I hope you encourage more positive conversation like this post has brought.
Threads like these bring peoples attention to issues like these when they may not realise they're commiting them.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Anonymous

Re: What is arrogance? [Re: nubious]
    #2232907 - 01/10/04 09:28 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks nubious. :smile:

I deleted my rate of you and I also wanted to say that I now realize that I made many mistakes as a moderator.

Nice to see you posting. :thumbup:


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