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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Jaegar]
    #22155917 - 08/28/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jaegar said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Sorry if I actually know what I am talking about, Danno. :ohwell:




OC the destroyer of fools and liberator of minds. :laugh:

Keeps this forum entertaining and acts as a bane to the kooks.





Haha ... thanks ... Getting after ignorance and idiocy one post at a time!


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22155946 - 08/28/15 10:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I keep thinking OC is "original comment" and I'm just like why does everyone hate me ;-;


--------------------
How to get started in bulk:
Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker
BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek
Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series
How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs)
What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain)
Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary)
Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22155975 - 08/28/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

As Swami(my previous incarnation) and as OC, I offered some 34 each $20,000 challenges based upon the exact claim that a true believer made on this forum.

You get to guess the results.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22155993 - 08/28/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Check out this thread http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11223654/fpart/all wherein I basically predicted some such event a mere few days beforehand. The true believers got all over me for slamming "The Secret" and then afterwards spent all kinds of energy defending this charlatan.

It sucks always being right.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 2
    #22156061 - 08/28/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
As Swami(my previous incarnation) and as OC, I offered some 34 each $20,000 challenges based upon the exact claim that a true believer made on this forum.

You get to guess the results.




Funny thing, in 2015, going with the scientific consensus is playing it safe.  Wasn't the case at all even 200 years ago. 

In the scientific community, a tiny, tiny fraction of the absolute brightest have the smarts and brainpower to understand the elaborate equations behind the Big Bang Theory and competing theories yet the masses proclaim devoted belief that "they got it right"...

It's so similar to how the masses in religion react to the priest class that have a special relationship with God and can read His tea leaves.  Super brainiac scientists understand an elaborate language of math and can explain with cryptic symbols the origin of the universe that virtually no one can understand and those of you that want to be in the "smart club" proclaim your devotion to their theory/religion.

There are equally unusual people that are extraordinarily skilled at the language of our inner worlds.  They can explore them the way scientists explore equations. 

Hey, choose your side.  Personally, I like both sides.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22156080 - 08/28/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

People 200 years ago didn't know what we know now.  Science isn't perfect but it's the best tool we have for producing reliable evidence.  Certainly a lot better then "and then there was light." <--- Insert miracle here.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22156101 - 08/28/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Funny thing, in 2015, going with the scientific consensus is playing it safe.  Wasn't the case at all even 200 years ago.




Again, well said. I'm not conveying what you say as absolute truth but you make some very good points. Perhaps it's just me not wanting to deal with the thought of everything "blacking out", perhaps it's just that I sipmly see more logic in your answers, but what you've been saying makes more sense to me than anything else I've read on this thread :hatsoff:


--------------------
How to get started in bulk:
Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker
BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek
Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series
How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs)
What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain)
Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary)
Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Cognitive_Shift] * 1
    #22156172 - 08/28/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
People 200 years ago didn't know what we know now.  Science isn't perfect but it's the best tool we have for producing reliable evidence.  Certainly a lot better then "and then there was light." <--- Insert miracle here.




The scientific process has produced incredible breakthroughs for our species.  There is no doubt about it.  Medicines, engines, fuels, farming technology, chemicals, electronics ... so many things we have as a result of the scientific process.

Is the scientific process equally suited to solve EVERY question/problem?  Personally, I doubt it.  Imagination is often the well we dip into to find the ideas that put science on the right track.  Guys like Einstein, Feynman, Jobs, Tesla and De Vinci all said that imagination is perhaps more valuable than "knowledge." 

If there is indeed a multi-dimensional element to our universe as many in the scientific community are suggesting ... and consciousness is capable of traversing the boundaries between these dimensions as the great mystics have been saying for thousands of years, then the idea that consciousness itself is durable beyond the death of the physical body in this dimension is very realistic.  Maybe thought itself is the most refined energy of the universe and we are at the very doorstep of understanding how to use that energy to travel in ways that past civilizations may have understood better than we do?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22156260 - 08/28/15 11:47 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Science has limitations, anyone claiming it's a metatheory is lying to themselves.  I think it's arrogant to make a claim about life after death because if people are being honest with themselves they don't have a damn clue.  There's nothing wrong with wishful thinking and staying positive but to actually believe in it 100% and make claims for it is childish, because a mature person can admit they simply don't know.  It's fun to talk about and fantasize about when people start taking it seriously as truth it kinda skeeves me out.  Just because science isn't a metatheory doesn't discredit everything it has done, IMO it has provided us with a compass of interpretation to point us in the most likely direction to "truth" what ever that is.  There are still many more discoveries about reality which haven't been made yet and theories can be proven wrong at anytime by new reliable evidence.  So who knows...


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22156302 - 08/28/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Science has limitations, anyone claiming it's a metatheory is lying to themselves.  I think it's arrogant to make a claim about life after death because if people are being honest with themselves they don't have a damn clue.  There's nothing wrong with wishful thinking and staying positive but to actually believe in it 100% and make claims for it is childish, because a mature person can admit they simply don't know.  It's fun to talk about and fantasize about when people start taking it seriously as truth it kinda skeeves me out.  Just because science isn't a metatheory doesn't discredit everything it has done, IMO it has provided us with a compass of interpretation to point us in the most likely direction to "truth" what ever that is.  There are still many more discoveries about reality which haven't been made yet and theories can be proven wrong at anytime by new reliable evidence.  So who knows...




Because of the impact of the Christian Church on Western society, we really haven't put much time or effort into the after death research and have treated it as taboo.  I think many (you?) assume this is true everywhere else when it isn't.  There have been cultures that put a lot of effort, sometimes using a scientific process, into understanding the afterlife possibilities.  The Tibetans are most definitely one of them.  They have approached the exploration of a multi dimensional universe in a very disciplined way for centuries.  They have mapped it out, explored it and experimented with it ... and we're not talking about kids dropping acid and listening to pink floyd here, we're talking about very disciplined people spending a lifetime to understand man's multi dimensional nature.  A tiny fraction of the West understands this.  The Gnostics and Egyptians did the same thing as well as the Taoists and other shamanic cultures around the world. 

The idea that man is capable of consciously participating in a multi dimensional universe has been explored with much greater effort and discipline than our Western world has approached it.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22156337 - 08/28/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

How can you research consciousness (a subjective experience) after death if you're alive?


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Kush_Zombie]
    #22156357 - 08/28/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
How can you research consciousness (a subjective experience) after death if you're alive?



Quote:

Kush_Zombie said:
Quote:

hTx said:
an emergent property of the brain that remains intimately attached till death when consciousness disappears



Consciousness continues at least several minutes after you die :smile:

Source: http://www.ryot.org/life-after-death-science-study-evidence-proof-ghost/833377




--------------------
How to get started in bulk:
Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker
BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek
Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series
How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs)
What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain)
Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary)
Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Kush_Zombie]
    #22156404 - 08/28/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Near death and OBE are not death.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22156406 - 08/28/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
How can you research consciousness (a subjective experience) after death if you're alive?




Excellent question and one the Tibetans asked and explored for over 1,000 years.  What they decided was to train their awareness to be able to consciously go into brain wave states that those experiencing death go into.  And, they trained their awareness to be alert and lucid in dreaming and to master out of body travel.  With all of these tools and the ability to use them hours every day, they accumulated a wealth of experience about non-ordinary states of consciousness and the inter dimensional nature of our existence.  They were gathering knowledge from the source, not from instruments that measure it. 

They OBSERVED those that were dying from these heightened states of awareness and SAW what was happening that cannot be seen from ordinary awareness.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22156417 - 08/28/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Near death and OBE are not death.




And you know this how?  Have you had a near death experience?  How many hours have you personally spent in OOBE territory consciously?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22156430 - 08/28/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Very cool.  But brain waves approaching death is not death.  Death is the cessation of metabolism resulting in meta cell death.  There are no brain waves in a dead man.  I don't mean their heart stopped and they were legally dead for a minute.  I mean dead.  I still haven't found a satisfactory answer to how one can study death while being alive.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22156459 - 08/28/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Very cool.  But brain waves approaching death is not death.  Death is the cessation of metabolism resulting in meta cell death.  There are no brain waves in a dead man.  I don't mean their heart stopped and they were legally dead for a minute.  I mean dead.  I still haven't found a satisfactory answer to how one can study death while being alive.




OK, so, we're making headway here.  So, let's say a highly accomplished Tibetan mystic is in an out of body state observing an individual that is dying.  In an OOBE state, we have different observational senses than when we're in ordinary reality.  So, this highly trained monk watches a person dying and SEES the spirit of this dying person make a dimensional traverse and FOLLOWS  him/her in a way that simply cannot be done in waking reality.  Perhaps this monk does this dozens of times with different people and begins to see and map out what is happening ...

What we all need to understand is that there are people that become very skillful in the territory of non-ordinary reality.  The Tibetans weren't just making this stuff up.  They were very disciplined people and took states on non ordinary reality VERY seriously. 

Our Western World has completely ignored it and, for the most part, treated it as satanic taboo.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22156473 - 08/28/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

There is a few assumptions that need to be addressed.  How do you know this guy is telling the truth and can everyone see this soul?  If it's real a special few chosen people shouldn't be the only people to see it.  Also is there even a soul at all?


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22156482 - 08/28/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Near death and OBE are not death.



So if there is no proof then how can you be so sure nothing will happen? Where's your proof on this? Or are you just taking your best guess as well?


--------------------
How to get started in bulk:
Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker
BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek
Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series
How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs)
What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain)
Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary)
Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Kush_Zombie]
    #22156483 - 08/28/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kush_Zombie said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Near death and OBE are not death.



So if there is no proof then how can you be so sure nothing will happen? Where's your proof on this? Or are you just taking your best guess as well?



I never said nothing will happen, I said I have no clue what will happen.  I haven't died, therefore I know nothing about what being dead is like.  If I had to take a guess I would say it's like before being born but I don't have a damn clue.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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