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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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royque1980 said: What I actually meant is that, as humans, and very limited beings, we ask questions that may satisfy our lack of control and fears. Then we decided that death cannot be the end. Why not? Why is it "bad" that there is an end? Why is it that something NEEDS to happen? This is a way of thinking that places the roach that is humanity at the center of the universe. I don't think these animals (especially me) deserve that privilege.
Who said it only happens to humans?
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
Posts: 939
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Kush_Zombie]
#22164759 - 08/30/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It doesn't. It happens to all living organisms. Why does something need to happen other than natural transformation of elements? I mean, that is not really a question there :P
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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Tropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
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I like the cut of your jib. Now if only people could drop the negative association they have with death then they might be open enough to the idea of living while they're here, rather than race by in a flurry of worry.
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Kush_Zombie
smug piece of shit



Registered: 10/22/14
Posts: 4,793
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Tropism]
#22164779 - 08/30/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was just trying to explain why I thought nothing happening was still something happening.
-------------------- How to get started in bulk: Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs) What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain) Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary) Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful) Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Tropism]
#22164835 - 08/30/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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My point exactly. Why is death so feared? It could be just as easily revered.
I know, Kush, but I am trying to explain that a non-event is not an event lol
youtube.com/watch?v=e0TwGWIu8gE
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
Edited by Count of Sabugosa (08/30/15 01:20 PM)
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
royque1980 said: What I actually meant is that, as humans, and very limited beings, we ask questions that may satisfy our lack of control and fears. Then we decided that death cannot be the end. Why not? Why is it "bad" that there is an end? Why is it that something NEEDS to happen? This is a way of thinking that places the roach that is humanity at the center of the universe. I don't think these animals (especially me) deserve that privilege.
Maybe it's simpler than that. Maybe we just want to know who and what we really are? Are we a multi dimensional eternal being or not? Maybe we sense, at a subconscious level, that there is much, much more to the mystery of what our real potential is and what our place is in this unfathomable universe. And, if we truly knew that we are indestructible, immortal beings how might that change the way we live TODAY? Would that remove fear and make it much harder for the ruling classes to scare us into submission and to adopt violent strategies to solve problems? There's a reason why Buddhist nations tend (some rare exceptions) to be much less violent and exhibit a lot less stress and mental disease. They have a much more developed understanding of live and the afterlife and do not approach the afterlife with the kind of fear we see in Western nations indoctrinated into the Abrahamic religions.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22165143 - 08/30/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Maybe it's simpler than that. Maybe we just want to know who and what we really are? Are we a multi dimensional eternal being or not? Maybe we sense, at a subconscious level, that there is much, much more to the mystery of what our real potential is and what our place is in this unfathomable universe. And, if we truly knew that we are indestructible, immortal beings how might that change the way we live TODAY? Would that remove fear and make it much harder for the ruling classes to scare us into submission and to adopt violent strategies to solve problems? There's a reason why Buddhist nations tend (some rare exceptions) to be much less violent and exhibit a lot less stress and mental disease. They have a much more developed understanding of live and the afterlife and do not approach the afterlife with the kind of fear we see in Western nations indoctrinated into the Abrahamic religions.
Maybe. Questioning makes perfectly good sense. The problem is, based on what observations? Because feelings, as we do know, are tricky. We may feel scared for something that others feel pleasure. Thus this "perception" of which you speak does not seem to be more than any type of "phantom sensation." There is nothing that substantiates the existence of an after-life. Do you know why we wish it so much?
1. It would mean that we wouldn't cease to exist. 2. All of those perceptions make us feel as if there is something more that we can grasp and cannot understand. Why would we, as mere bacteria or even less in this universe, grasp or phatom impossibilities and take them seriously? This happened when the ancients considered sun a god. Is sun a god? Why would it be a god? In their case, the limited perception of the forces of nature allowed for this primitive thinking. But now, that we know what the sun is, and we understand scientifical methodologies, why do we cling to the metaphysical that we only IMAGINE to be due to our own egocentrical reasons?
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
Edited by Count of Sabugosa (08/30/15 03:05 PM)
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
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Quote:
royque1980 said:
1. It would mean that we wouldn't cease to exist. 2. All of those perceptions make us feel as if there is something more that we can grasp and cannot understand. Why would we, as mere bacteria or even less in this universe, grasp or phatom impossibilities and take them seriously? This happened when the ancients considered sun a god. Is sun a god? Why would it be a god? In their case, the limited perception of the forces of nature allowed for this primitive thinking. But now, that we know what the sun is, and we understand scientifical methodologies, why do we cling to the metaphysical that we only IMAGINE to be due to our own egocentrical reasons?
Physics has produced the distinct possibility that we live in a multi dimensional universe. If this is true, then it is indeed possible that our earth exists in a number of dimensions simultaneously. How do you or I really know at this primitive level of our development what kinds of advanced beings there are in the universe and what form/shape they take on? Do you or I truly know whether or not the earth itself is a sentient super advanced being? Or the sun? My guess is we are in for a lot of surprises to our limited thinking that we are the most advanced species in our solar system over the next few hundred years.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22167615 - 08/31/15 03:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Imagine for a moment that over a 25 year period of time, in addition to all your waking activities, you spent several hours EVERY DAY (night) in lucid dreaming or conscious out of body states. EVERY SINGLE DAY with no drugs needed. And, with all that repeated experience you got better and better at functioning in those states. Your ability to move, understand your surroundings, find other beings to communicate with and build relationships with and simply discover new stuff got as good as your ability to function and explore in waking reality. You would be experiencing extreme adventure every single day.
So you start gathering knowledge and exploring in this incredibly exciting state of consciousness that Western man is essentially completely ignorant of as a result of the Abrahamic Religions 15 centuries effort to equate these states of mind with Satan, demonic possession and insanity. You travel to the most remarkable places. You have conversations with unfathomable entities/beings. You explore and experience adventure in ways we simply cannot imagine ... and you learn. You have conversations with trees, plants, animals ... eagles, lions, jaguars ... And all that experience is conscious and carries over to your waking world.
You become skilled at moving. You fly to the moon and look around ... to mars ... to Saturn ... to other planets you can find as these worlds are absolutely endless.
Now, imagine that you receive extreme training in these arts/abilities that have come from 25 generations of consciousness explorers that came before you. And that knowledge is passed down from one generation to the other so that your learning is faster than those that came before you. And, of course you find teachers and guides in the out of body state that show you inter dimensional secrets as well.
This is what has been and is happening with groups like the Tibetans, Kogi, Taoists and indigenous tribes that have retained this knowledge. What might they have learned about the universe, death, the afterlife, astronomy, etc. from all this exploration and thousands and thousands of hours in these heightened states of awareness?
In the West, we don't really take this seriously and it's a big mistake. We have an occasional lucid dream or maybe a sudden out of body experience and we often think of it as an extraordinary experience, but it passes and we go on with our lives. But there are those that integrate this inner/outer perception into the DAILY FABRIC of their lives and it becomes a primary source of knowledge about themselves and this multidimensional world we live in.
Robert Monroe is perhaps the most famous Western individual that had this kind of experience as he had an ease with out of body consciousness that is extremely unusual. If you read his three books, you'll get an inkling for what kind of knowledge is out there to be gained in non drug induced non ordinary reality. He spent thousands of hours in conscious out of body travel and his discoveries are absolutely remarkable and only hint at what has been learned by the various cultures that cultivated this awareness with far more enthusiasm than Monroe did. It is from all this consciousness exploration that, no doubt, their understanding of the afterlife evolved and gained more clarity.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22168160 - 08/31/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm a little bit excited about death. Visits to other realities in the night have been more thought-provoking than pre-medication mushroom trips of mine. It seems there is much beauty waiting out there for us, beyond the horizon of death, and more mystery.
Then, if you work it out somehow, if you self-mortificate and bring the lesser instincts and drives under control, rid yourself of greed and lust for power through sheer discipline and force of habit, you will actually find your essential nature to be sheer liberation; to be God.
So if you are such a thing, well, you don't even have to reason yourself to safety. You're safe. You don't have to think, I am God therefore this will all be okay, as the actual experience of the Divinity is the beginning and the end, it's out of time and into eternity.
But if you reason a little, if God Alone Is, what are you worried about with this whole death rap?
God is beautiful, seek and love God, you are That. It's what the emptiness inside you is waiting for.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: circastes]
#22168205 - 08/31/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you want to learn more then mumbo jumbo about the OOB experience try reading Thomas Metzinger or a neuroscientist like Sam Harris.
That is if you want a more authentic and intelligent approach to the phenomena instead of fantastical or wishful thinking.
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22168229 - 08/31/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: Maybe it's simpler than that. Maybe we just want to know who and what we really are? Are we a multi dimensional eternal being or not? Maybe we sense, at a subconscious level, that there is much, much more to the mystery of what our real potential is and what our place is in this unfathomable universe. And, if we truly knew that we are indestructible, immortal beings how might that change the way we live TODAY? Would that remove fear and make it much harder for the ruling classes to scare us into submission and to adopt violent strategies to solve problems? There's a reason why Buddhist nations tend (some rare exceptions) to be much less violent and exhibit a lot less stress and mental disease. They have a much more developed understanding of live and the afterlife and do not approach the afterlife with the kind of fear we see in Western nations indoctrinated into the Abrahamic religions.
Well, yeah, physicists nowadays consider the possibility of multiverses (one of the theories hinging on the Bosom of Higgins) or supersimmetry, both understanding the universe as only one of many. However, what comes after that is not even close to the realm of theories. It is basically an assumption, or many of those, which must be supported with evidence and repetition. In this sense, many thigs we don't think are possible are indeed.
However, to question who we are is very different than being so eager to provide the answers without proof. So, as much as I question who I am and where I come from and what is my role in this world, I wouldn't dare providing answers that I can't substantiate.
Once again, anything that expects some sort of life after death is possible. I just don't believe it actually happens.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Jaegar] 1
#22168252 - 08/31/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Jaegar said: If you want to learn more then mumbo jumbo about the OOB experience try reading Thomas Metzinger or a neuroscientist like Sam Harris.
That is if you want a more authentic and intelligent approach to the phenomena instead of fantastical or wishful thinking.
Trying to understand the OOBE by reading brain analysis or a theory is kinda the same as trying to understand what music is by looking at the notes on paper.
Music comes alive when you HEAR it ... and the OOBE becomes clear when you have one. And if you develop the ability to have many, then you'll truly understand it. A researcher that is unable to create the OOBE for themselves has limited ability to truly understand it. Robert Monroe had thousands of them and studied and documented it from the inside.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
royque1980 said:
Once again, anything that expects some sort of life after death is possible. I just don't believe it actually happens.
It's a reasonable belief and on some level, the safer one to defend in today's science based world.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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soldatheero
lastirishman


Registered: 03/09/07
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Quote:
If you were a scientist or familiar with the scientific method, you would now that being impressed or unimpressed (an emotional reaction) has no place in determining the validity of a claim.
You would also know that anecdotes are fine as a starting point for research, but in and of themselves, prove nothing and are not acceptable as evidence in any scientific venue. Only the untrained layman would accept such stories as validation for any POV.
Your false assessment of my character (ad hominem fallacy) in no way makes a case for NDE's as something extraordinary. All your years here and you still appear to not understand the basics. Read The Fallacies sticky thread..
And with all of your years here you still can't seem to understand that the scientific method is limited and just because a phenomenon is beyond the reach of scientific experiment does not mean it does not occur or does not exist. The scientific method is not the only way in which one can inquire into the truth about life, nature and reality. The nature of a NDE makes it unethical to try and induce it in an experimental setting. It is not honest truth seeking to have this one dimensional view of life and to cling to the scientific method to support a narrow materialist-realist reductionist view on reality.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: soldatheero]
#22177291 - 09/02/15 07:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
soldatheero said:
And with all of your years here you still can't seem to understand that the scientific method is limited and just because a phenomenon is beyond the reach of scientific experiment does not mean it does not occur or does not exist. The scientific method is not the only way in which one can inquire into the truth about life, nature and reality. The nature of a NDE makes it unethical to try and induce it in an experimental setting. It is not honest truth seeking to have this one dimensional view of life and to cling to the scientific method to support a narrow materialist-realist reductionist view on reality.
This gets right to the crux of the issue when trying to use the scientific method to prove everything or say it is the litmus test for all knowledge. Just as those that feel the Bible is the filter by which all knowledge must pass, using a scientific method to measure EVERYTHING just doesn't work. Knowledge, truth and understanding are complex things and the scientific process is an absolute miracle for so many things. When you start exploring consciousness, awareness and spirit it gets much more difficult. Kinda like measuring love in the lab
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22177339 - 09/02/15 08:25 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Let's all discard the scientific method and instead read fictional bestsellers about NDEs.
Seems you and Solda fail to understand why anecdotes are not considered evidence. This is first year science and relates to false memories, confirmation bias, misperceptions and so on.
There are literally hundreds of posts on this forum wherein a mystical leaning person claims that science backs up their claims, and when proven otherwise quickly switches to "Well, science cannot investigate these realms."
Equivocation anyone?
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Count of Sabugosa
Nerdy floater



Registered: 08/20/15
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Not as I see it (I am not coming between the two of you). Science is science. If you need to invent the notion of something out of basically thin air or subjective experiences, it does not count as a solid basis for scientifical thought or observation. It falls into the realm of belief. In this case, science does not have all the facts because it is about observation, experimentation, replication of results, etc. This is where beliefs, no matter from where they come, have absolutely no place in the discussion of science. They do, however, bare their weight in philosophy.
-------------------- In Hebrew, the words "wine" and "secret" hold the same numerologic value. When wine comes in, secrets spill out. Do you think the person who said that knew mushrooms? When mushrooms come in... Is there anything beyond a secret?
Edited by Count of Sabugosa (09/02/15 08:30 AM)
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Let's all discard the scientific method and instead read fictional bestsellers about NDEs.
Seems you and Solda fail to understand why anecdotes are not considered evidence. This is first year science and relates to false memories, confirmation bias, misperceptions and so on.
There are literally hundreds of posts on this forum wherein a mystical leaning person claims that science backs up their claims, and when proven otherwise quickly switches to "Well, science cannot investigate these realms."
Equivocation anyone?
What you continue to miss (purposefully ignore?) is that mastery of a particular skill or ability is often the only way to truly understand it. For instance, a scientist could understand an elaborate equation about music, record a guitar player playing and put it through complex electro signal processing ... could speak fluently about octaves and sound spectrum, etc. But he wouldn't know jack compared to a virtuoso musician that knows nothing of the "science" behind music. The musician could speak to the source of inspiration, creativity and the feelings that create the art and what music truly is.
The same is true of many of the spiritual abilities. It is absolutely ludicrous to claim some kind of superior understanding of the NDE, lucid dreaming or Out of Body states if you haven't had one AND cannot reproduce them frequently at will. I would be far more interested in the opinions of a person that has learned, though decades or practice and discipline, what is really happening in the out of body state, what is out there, what astral realms really are and what can be learned there than I would a scientist simply observing machines and data from electrodes on some guinea pig in a lab.
If I want to understand the magic of an electric guitar, I'd rather talk to David Gilmour than a recording engineer. Same thing with the multi-dimensional capabilities of human consciousness. Maybe listening to the virtuosos of this experience could reveal insights that a scientist with brain electrode data is unlikely to understand.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22177520 - 09/02/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
It is absolutely ludicrous to claim some kind of superior understanding of the NDE, lucid dreaming or Out of Body states if you haven't had one
Many OBErs claim to be able to actually travel and bring back real information. That is testable - and the tests always fail.
Alien abductees make all sorts of claims - and when tested in a sleep facility, are clearly shown to have never left their beds even while telling of physical abduction.
People fabricate, lie, exaggerate, filter and enhance their stories for a myriad of reasons. Sifting through such tales looking for truth does not get a researcher very far.
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