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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146629 -

Human is a very common form of intelligent life in this galaxy. If humans on Earth go extinct... so what.. who cares. They probably brought it on themselves. And then there is still countless other planets with humans. Like I said, we aren't special.
But then we are. Because we exist. And existing is special.
They don't just give out existance to anything.. well yeah they do but that's beside the point.

What I choose, deep inside, to understand and know about death, is that it is a necessary part of life. With light comes dark, and they are balanced. With Life comes Death, and it is good. Everything that lives, dies. That's part of the cycle. But notice how I said cycle, and not line. Death is not the end, because you won't get off that easy, pussies. :grin: If I've had to go through hundreds of thousands of lives and countless hard times and struggles and battles and incarnations and pain and misery and joy and astral projections.. I'm sure as hell not going to let you live one life and just go black. Yeah, you can cogitize for a little while.. think about your life.. that's pretty black.. but then it'll soon be time to wake up, and time to experience some more. MUWHAHAHAHA
Wait I got off track there. See there are certain beings on the 'other side', who make sure people go where they need to go. You can't just disappear. I'm one of them while not physical.
To me, Reincarnation isn't some speculation, or possibility, it is a scientific fact. And I will prove it to all of you when you die. Just look for the tall guy with a purple glow flying around.
Then I will telepathically show you all your previous lives, maybe take your energy body for a trip to the other side of the universe and back, and have you observe the endless soul interactions and cycles from an objective perspective. Soon you will realize that there is no 'afterlife', it's just life. And it's a continual process of birth and death, experience, insight, injustice, and transformation. Many times will you change your personality. Many times will you die. There is no escape, except to learn and ascend. If you so choose, you can reincarnate for ever and ever. And you will, until you learn the way.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146647 -

muhurgle said:
Um. I would come to the conclusion that one could see glimpses of the future? And.. how does that relate to an afterlife?

See glimpses of future -> something very obvious -> Afterlife

Yeah, I understand it now :smile: 


Either you didnt know what I was talking about when I was referring to "LoF's post" or didn't read it all completely...
What I explained in the post, was that my belief is that perhaps we are actually remembering what we had planned out before we incarnated. When we daydream, we tend to "wander off" in our minds, similar to actual night dreaming: deep into our subconscious. So perhaps we came across vague memories of us planning out our incarnations. This is my belief, and as well as that such incidents are actually quite beneficial, as a road sign. Saying yes, this is where you are, and this is where you're supposed to be, you're following through your life just as you planned out. Again, this is my belief.

Muhurgle, you tell me, what conclusion would you come to if this happens to you, and why? 


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146663 -

Ok, guessed I missed some of your post then. Sorry.


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"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."
Aldous Huxley

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146736 -

Quote:
ergot said:
or perhaps they are using something called creativity and not everything has a supernatural origin. 



Where does the creativity come from? :wink: 
Think about why certain people seem to have BRILLIANT creativity when it comes to creating imaginary spaceships, alien worlds, and making entire sagas out of em on film, whereas some people can't even think up of a cool alien-name if their life counted on it.
So, perhaps.... :wink:


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146762 -

muhurgle said:
Believing that you're born again after you die, is one theory. Maybe after we die, we become a star in the sky? Or maybe you go to heaven with god and his pals? Or maybe you haunt for ever, as a ghost? Or maybe your consciousness is transfered to an inanimate object, like a rock? Maybe your consciousness split off into all the particles that you're made up of, and when you're eventually part of another being, you'll be part of that consciousness? Or maybe, nothing happens. Maybe you just cease to exist?

Why don't you believe in any of these other theories? They're just as plausible as the standard reincarnation scenario, aren't they? Now, I could make up thousands of different theories like that, and they would all be equally good.

Here comes the difficult part: since they are all equally good, and there is no proof for any of them, what would be the logical conclusion? It would be the one that requires least conjecture. The one that doesn't require that I dream up the mechanism of how my soul is transfered to a star, or anything else like that, without any proof of that actually happening. And that just happens to be the conclusion that we just cease to exist.

This isn't proof that there is no afterlife, or whatever. It's just the most plausible theory, and there is a significant difference between plausbile and proven. 


AWSOME POST !  :thumbup: :thumbup:
That's exactly what I always argue with people who
try to use the "proof by lack of contradiction", and
they never have an answer...
If one believes in God because there's no proof otherwise,
well then I could belive that my salt shaker created the
universe cause there's no proof otherwise...
 


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"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146789 -

ok.. so let's see.. everything's a cycle, therefore we must die and be reborn again. Just like the water evaporating from a certain puddle and then falling back into the same puddle again, right? Oh wait.. no.. when water evaporates from one body of water its scattered across the planet and doesn't come together again. So how is it that our energy is somehow held together into a little unit? Why isn't it scattered across the universe never to be re-assembled? Let me guess.. 'cause the world is less scary if I believe it does.

Skorpivo: That does happen to me. Considering how I dream hours every day I don't find it too weird that every now and then I'll get a strong sense of deja vu, like maybe I dreamed that moment before. My friend who is studying to be a psychologist told me that scientists can induce that feeling in people by messing with their brains, so he brushes it off. It's just some physical chemical reaction in the brain, he'd say. In a way that doesn't mean ANYTHING but then it also opens up the possibility for the deja vu to be a chemical let loose in the brain by a situation completely unrelated to your memories. It might happen because of something you ate and not come from your memory bank at all.

The flaw in claiming that you know it's true because of your experience is that your ego is desperate to convince itself of an afterlife. For most of my life I believed in reincarnation. My friend the psychologist and I once talked to eachother about this when we were fifteen or so, and I was shocked to discover that he didn't believe anything happened when you died. I was quite surprised. I took it for granted that he believed in the afterlife, and just couldn't understand how someone could go about their daily business without believing there was some kind of purpose to it all. Eventually I became aware that I was ignoring the nagging voice saying "how can you know? How can you know?" By telling this story I don't mean to say "I converted therefore you will eventually."

So, in conclusion, you can't know that there is an afterlife. It doesn't matter if you astral project or if you've remembered your past lives in a hypnotic trance, the ego is a powerful presence and will take information and twist it into an interpretation that cushions or consoles itself concerning the eternity or lack thereof of its existence.

Oh, here's some more: You guys are claiming to know the purpose of all this afterlife mumbo-jumbo. You say "Well, we're here to evolve, and we want to evolve and trancend." But come on.. keep going. All you do is open it up for more questions. Why do we evolve? Why do we experience things over and over again to transcend this cycle? It's not an explanation of our situation at all, so quit it!

Also, what's the point? Why bother believing that we are part of this whole reincarnation thing? Is it relevant to us now? How is it relevant? Why should I believe this thing that can't be proven? Am I going to be better off in cycle of reincarnation if I believe in it? I don't see that that is the case, so I ask why believe when the only earthly reason to do so is to feel better about what is going to happen to you when you die?

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146799 -

Also, what's the point? Why bother believing that we are part of this whole reincarnation thing? Is it relevant to us now? How is it relevant?

Yes it is relevant now. In life we experience things I will call 'life lessons'. For example I chose as one of my life lessons in this life to learn unconditional patience and respect for others. Now throughout the course of my life, I will encounter people and situations that will test my patience, and respect. Until I master this lesson, it will continue getting more and more intense, exponentially.

There is countless life lessons that one can experience. But they all relate to our previous lives and accumulated wisdom. Now there is a reason we don't remember our previous lives, and that is to protect the fragile ego, until we come of 'awakening', where we slowly begin to remember our reason for incarnating in the first place and the life lessons we chose, as well as previous lives and the lessons gained in them.

If you can see and understand your previous lives, you will have a better understanding of your current life, giving you more insight into life lessons, and unresolved karmic interactions between people, which may make your life easier. It's not to get ahead in the reincarnation cycle, or feel better about something when you die, it's to gain wisdom for the now.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2146802 -

So you are privileged for being reincarnated into a culture that has lots of new age books about reincarnation? If you appeared in a jungle tribe where people didn't believe in reincarnation you wouldn't be in such a good position? Is that what you're saying? That if you didn't believe in reincarnation you wouldn't grow as quickly?

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146807 -

Why do we evolve? Why do we experience things over and over again to transcend this cycle?

Why does the sun shine? Why do the planets revolve around it?
Why do birds fly? Why do trees grow? Why do rocks exist?

Because that's the way it is. Creation needs to evolve for eternity. We and everything else in existance contribute to its evolution by constantly experiencing from every perspective imaginable.

I'm not here to console you into believing in some fantasy world where everything is pretty and nothing ever dies. Fuck that. The world and existance is a combination of the beautiful and the horribly ugly, and that is why we exist. To find that balance. There is peace and love and there is murder and war. Choose your side.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146813 -

So you are privileged for being reincarnated into a culture that has lots of new age books about reincarnation? If you appeared in a jungle tribe where people didn't believe in reincarnation you wouldn't be in such a good position? Is that what you're saying? That if you didn't believe in reincarnation you wouldn't grow as quickly?


What are you talking about? That's not what I'm saying at all. I was born in a "tribe" where people don't believe in reincarnation. It only helped me to grow. We set up our lives that way, so that we grow the most from our circumstances. It doesn't fucking matter if you believe in reincarnation or not, that really has nothing to do with it. I believe in it, because I do and everything I have experienced says that is the case. You can believe whatever you want, that's the beauty of free will. I'm not going to try and convince you or change your beliefs, I'm only going to state my own, and the reasons for feeling that way.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2146816 -

by asking those questions I wasn't desperately clawing at the ground with my fingernails begging for a nugget of truth, I was pointing out, as you did in the post you just made that there is no answer, so don't ever fucking bother giving reasons like "we're here to evolve."

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146824 -

Well, we are.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146832 -

I'm not going to try and convince you or change your beliefs, I'm only going to state my own, and the reasons for feelings that way.

ok, well there's something I REALLY don't understand then:

"It doesn't fucking matter if you believe in reincarnation or not, that really has nothing to do with it."

Ok, here's the ultimate point that has made me shed my belief in reincarnation. You say belief in reincarnation has nothing to do with it, right? So does that mean, then that I will evolve and eventually transcend this cycle without having to accept the belief that I am a reincarnating soul/consciousness?

That seems to be what you are saying, so then I ask: If it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in it, why bother? There is no "spiritual" reason to believe in it because your spirit will be ascending regardless, so it must be an earthly reason. And what is that earthly reason? Protecting yourself!

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146865 -

Mixomatosis said:
Skorpivo: That does happen to me. Considering how I dream hours every day I don't find it too weird that every now and then I'll get a strong sense of deja vu, like maybe I dreamed that moment before. My friend who is studying to be a psychologist told me that scientists can induce that feeling in people by messing with their brains, so he brushes it off. It's just some physical chemical reaction in the brain, he'd say. In a way that doesn't mean ANYTHING but then it also opens up the possibility for the deja vu to be a chemical let loose in the brain by a situation completely unrelated to your memories. It might happen because of something you ate and not come from your memory bank at all.



No, I'm not talking about some mere lil odd feeling like "uh...huh? hmm...like, whoa, dude, deja vu or something..yea, totally."
I'm talking about SPECIFIC Scenes, IMAGES, in your head, that you dreamed of or visualized with your mind's eye in a day-dream state of mind....
How does a random chemical running around loose in my brain make me clearly visualize washing dishes, AND years later...it becomes REALITY, Exactly as I had envisioned it before.

I've seen documentaries on Discovery about parnormal phenomena on this type of matter, and they were interviewing people who've had this strange unexplained occurences similar to what I've had. One of em was an old lady who always had a very odd unexplained fondness of Ireland, for some reason she always felt drawn towards it. So years later, in her mid life, she finally went to Ireland on a vacation, and when she got there, she and her husband walked around the commonplaces and so on, she felt like she knew the whole town she was walking around, she even predicted what was gonna be around the block, every time she described what she "knew" was coming up, around the corner, she predicted it right! She knew the place, where she never had been, (in her current life) like the back of her hand.

Also, they had a person who went to a regressive hypnotist, in front of a crowd, mind you, who went under hypnotism, and did the routine regressive memory cues, and all of the sudden, the guy started speaking some weird mumbo jumbo that nobody could understand what he was even saying.
But, the hypnotist, on a hunch, saved the tape recording of it, and sent it to several etemologists and linguists who specialized in old languages, and guess what?
He was speaking a form of Egyptian...and was actually droning on about his life as an egyptian slave, and mentioned the building of pyramids and so on.

This is just ONE of many regressive hypnotistism experiences uncovering past lives.
I actually plan on going to one myself, to discover what past lives I've lived on this planet.


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146883 -

I would say that anyone who forms a "belief structure" around anything is acting rather silly...

Theory is so much more flexible :smirk:

If it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in it, why bother?

Are you assuming that it is a "bother" to believe in these things? Your grouping and generalization of such a large group of people is disturbing. Not everyone with ideas of an afterlife is "believing" in an afterlife for reasons of comfort, nor do we all hold blind faiths. 


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146919 -

IMAGES, in your head, that you dreamed of or visualized with your mind's eye in a day-dream state of mind....

yeah that's what I'm talking about too. deja vu.. that's french for "already seen." I'll be sitting down and I'll suddenly realize that I've sat there before, with this object to my left in this position, having this same conversation with this same person. Don't try to tell me that I can't be experiencing what you're experiencing because I don't come to the same conclusions as you.

As for regressive hypnosis.. Just because it happens under hypnosis doesn't mean it's true. You have to be very careful with this. Under hypnosis the hypnotee is very likely to answer positively to questions. Say the patient is rambling about something the hypnotist can't make sense of, the hypnotist starts to ask questions. "Do you feel scared?" The patient will say "yes.. yes I do feel scared, very scared." So really you gotta be sure about how the hypnosis is done. It's easy for a hypnotist to "inject" past lives into people.

As for your example of the stage hypnosis, it's a complete lie, and is a perfect example of how you pull the wool over your own eyes to have a comfortable belief in death and the afterlife. There is no person on the planet that could understand whatever languages they were speaking in Egypt around the time of the building of the pyramids (2000 BC). How can you know what a language sounds like when they don't have a phonetic alphabet or recording equipment? We're damn lucky to have the rosetta stone, because it helped shed a little light on the ancient Egyptian's language. I'm sorry, but nobody can speak their language from back then. Also, slaves didn't build the pyramids. Furthermore, why is it that people who remember past lives always have memories of huge pivotal moments in human history? Suspicious if you ask me.

As for the discovery channel.. that's nice, but not only could the old lady be a complete fraud, but her experience might be interpreted any number of ways other than "she must be remembering a past life!" Obviously you want to believe that the whole story must be true, but it's not anything close to solid evidence. Just another anecdote.

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146952 -

Are you assuming that it is a "bother" to believe in these things? Your grouping and generalization of such a large group of people is disturbing. Not everyone with ideas of an afterlife is "believing" in an afterlife for reasons of comfort, nor do we all hold blind faiths.

Well, I think it's a fair question. Why believe when your belief has no consequences on the outcome? If your soul is going to evolve and grow regardless, then you are believing for an earthly reason, correct? I want to know what that reason is. I think you'll find that it's out of a need to console yourself about the afterlife.

To really grow and evolve spiritually I believe that the key is to accept reality for what it is: A complete mystery that gives us no answers to anything. The personal growth coming from acccepting this condition of apparent meaninglessness is key.

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146966 -

To really grow and evolve spiritually I believe that the key is to accept reality for what it is: A complete mystery that gives us no answers to anything.

How do you know this is what reality is? Reality does not seem much of a mystery to me...

For a guy attacking the beliefs of others, you hold some strange beliefs of your own. I think the phrase here is, "don't throw stones in glass houses" :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: trendal]
    #2147000 -

I happen to be a paradox. But let's keep this discussion on track. It's not about my beliefs, it's about me attacking other's beliefs. My attacking beliefs may imply that I have beliefs, but I don't, and if I seem to, then it's just a good location to let loose my artillery from. Just cause I live in a glass house, doesn't mean other people do. And anyway just because I dwell in a house of crystal-clarity doesn't mean it's made of glass. Back to defending YOUR beliefs people.

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147009 -

Mixomatosis said:
IMAGES, in your head, that you dreamed of or visualized with your mind's eye in a day-dream state of mind....

yeah that's what I'm talking about too. deja vu.. that's french for "already seen." I'll be sitting down and I'll suddenly realize that I've sat there before, with this object to my left in this position, having this same conversation with this same person. Don't try to tell me that I can't be experiencing what you're experiencing because I don't come to the same conclusions as you.

No, I wasnt sure if you were on the same page as I was. But the conclusion you come to, is that those experiences are all the result of some chemical running around loose, in your brain? This is what you believe? lol, hey if it floats your boat, so be it, I'm not gonna judge your beliefs.

And btw, yes, there ARE egyptians, in Egypt, who still live in quite a medieval-state era compared to the higher societies of a world, and still speak egyptian, There are linguist specialists who still speak Gaelic for christ sakes.




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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