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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147053 - 11/30/03 05:17 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

This is what you believe? lol, hey if it floats your boat, so be it, I'm not gonna judge your beliefs.

A stunning rebuttal! Laughing at my "stupid" beliefs, that's great! Not only that, but that's not even my belief! I guess you're just going to end the debate here without adressing my points? That's what I call victory.

And btw, yes, there ARE egyptians, in Egypt, who still live in quite a medieval-state era compared to the higher societies of a world, and still speak egyptian, There are linguist specialists who still speak Gaelic for christ sakes.

I know songs in gaelic.. it's not a rare language at all bud and not comparable to ancient egyptian toungues.

Well, maybe you never noticed how sometimes shakespeare is hard to understand? Languages change, and over the course of 4500 years, guess what? NOBODY is going to understand an egyptian language that old. It's going to be WAAAY too different. Hehe.. you got shut down pretty hard there, eh? Sorry.. kinda.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147086 - 11/30/03 05:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Following Late Egyptian are two stages of the spoken language, Demotic (c. 715 BC-470 AD) and Coptic (c. 400 AD-c. 1600). Egyptian words borrowed into early Greek probably reflect Demotic (Greek demotikos = "popular") pronunciation. Demotic was written in its own cursive script, so this form of the written language is also called "Demotic." While the last hieroglyphic inscription was made at Philae in 394 AD, not long after the Christian Roman Emperor Theodosius I (379-395) ordered the closure of pagan temples, the last Demotic text is from 470.

Demotic writing disappeared only because, as the Egyptians themselves converted to Christianity, they ceased to use the old script. Instead, they began to write in the Greek alphabet, with the addition of seven letters borrowed from Demotic to write sounds that didn't exist in Greek. Since vowels did exist in Greek, we suddenly have the complete vocalization of the last stage of the Egyptian language, which is then called "Coptic," from the Arabic term for Egyptian Christians





Coptic.. there ya go, we know how to pronounce older Egyptian than I expected, but there's still somewhere between 2500 to 3000 years back to the pyramid building times which is the language this guy would be speaking, and there's just too much evolution in language to understand a distance that great. Of course, if your story had any credibility, we'd know a lot more about the language back then and it would have been a huge victory for linguists if they could assemble a vocalized language from the pyramid-building time.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147090 - 11/30/03 05:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

but let's not get off topic here.. The point I'm trying to make is that your story has a simple and obvious flaw that you would have caught were you not blinding yourself by desperately searching for evidence to support a theory that you WANT to believe. Never underestimate the power of the ego.


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InvisibleKrishna
कृष्ण,LOL
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Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147100 - 11/30/03 05:36 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

As Leary once said (ok these arent the exact words by my memory is shit) "nobody can remember being born, and yet nobody doubts that. So simply not remembering a past life is not proof for it not having existed."

Krishna


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Krishna]
    #2147105 - 11/30/03 05:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

there goes the backbone of my argument..


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147117 - 11/30/03 05:40 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
This is what you believe? lol, hey if it floats your boat, so be it, I'm not gonna judge your beliefs.

A stunning rebuttal! Laughing at my "stupid" beliefs, that's great! Not only that, but that's not even my belief! I guess you're just going to end the debate here without adressing my points? That's what I call victory.





Do tell, because I'm really interested in what a skeptic such as you may choose to believe. :smile: 


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineFrog
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2147146 - 11/30/03 05:51 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
No evidence of an after-life. Period. Mixomatosis is cool for bringing this topic to a thread. We die, we decompose, we fuel other life through our organic waste. Our existence does not end, but our chance to experience it does. And nothing more could ever prossibly be proven at this stage of humankind.




I forget who did it, but someone posted a test for determining if your beliefs are consistent. Part of the test related to one's basis for belief in God. One would receive a bullet for the following reason: You could believe in God without having a basis for it except belief. But you couldn't say others couldn't "not" believe in God for the same reason.

So those who don't want to belief there is anything to life after death, based on what they present as their evidence for believing that way, may do so. So may I believe that there is some type of life after death, based on the evidence I have accumulated for believing that way.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147171 - 11/30/03 05:56 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Hey man, don't come at me. You aren't off the hot seat till you admit complete and utter defeat.

I'm not defined by my beliefs, I'm a dynamic process.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2147188 - 11/30/03 06:01 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
I just had an epiphany related to the subject of the whole matter of what is described in LoF's post...

have any of you had like, yknow.."future flashbacks"? Sorta like Deja Vu, but a lil "more" than that? Like suddenly you feel like you've been there, you've already seen this, you actually "remember" this moment, even though it didn't happen up until then.

I've had several incidents like this...like small things that have no significance, I'll have this image in my head, just some random image...and like, years later.. BOOM! i LIVE that image! i see the whole "scene" right in front of me, like right there just as exactly i have pictured in my head years ago...like just standing there doing nothing really noteworthy of significance or whatever...
I've had this happen to me quite a few times...and i've talked to alot of other people about it, who also related....so this could indeed be another supporting factor of the whole premise which is quite thoroughly and articulately explained in LoF's post...
like maybe we're actually "remembering" what we had planned out?
And maybe psychics are people who remember faster than most people?
Hmmm...I'ma dwell on this epiphany s'more...





I've had this experience, except that, for me, it's dreams that come true. I don't see that it has anything to do with reincarnation. You wouldn't be wearing the same clothes, or be in the same building, if it was something that occurred in a previous life.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147232 - 11/30/03 06:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

:nonono: Obviously you made the same mistake as Muhurgle did...you misunderstood the post. 


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147234 - 11/30/03 06:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

but here's my belief in the afterlife just to give you something to chew on:

We die, we end existing. Our body breaks down and is consumed and distributed by different forces throughout the universe. Our individuality and our definition as any kind of "unit" is terminated by this process. Any soul, energy, mind, or spirit is analogous to our physical body, and the same happens to it.

I could explain this a bit more, but language would inhibit my transmission of information as I intend. But I'll do it anyway I guess:

Death is not to be feared. Well, it is when you're alive, but it's not to be feared because once you're dead, you don't care because you aren't there TO care. No being to be like "aw I'm dead." Some would say this is a blissful experience, and that's true.. but not really, because it could only be blissful if you were around to define it as that, so it's not really blissful. There ya go.


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OfflineFrog
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Registered: 10/22/03
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147274 - 11/30/03 06:24 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

From A biography of Edgar Cayce:
"What is the meaning of life?" he asked. "What is the real nature of man? What is the meaning of birth and death? Why are we here? Cayce accepted Mr. Lammers offer to explain these mysteries through his powers of hypnosis. What followed was the beginning of the metaphysical thought that emerged from 2,500 "Life" readings (information about a person's past lives), as distinguished from the "Physical" readings (medical diagnosis and cures) he had previously been giving.

For Cayce, this was the beginning of another period of tortuous self-doubt. Brought up in an atmosphere of strict, orthodox, Protestant Christianity, he was uninformed on the other great religions of the world and their similarities with his own. What the readings now said seemed foreign to everything he had been taught and had been teaching in his Sunday school classes for many years. The essential principles of the great religions, said the readings, were nevertheless all the same - they were only clothed in different garments.

Cayce withheld judgment on the point for a long time. In the end he and those close to the work came to accept reincarnation. It was improvable of course, but in provable instances the readings had shown themselves to be honest if not infallible. The answers were consistent.




http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce02.html

This is the main reason why I believe in reincarnation. No, there's is no "absolute" physical proof of an after-life, but after studying the bible and Cayce and some others, I decided to believe. No harm, no foul.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147330 - 11/30/03 06:41 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:
I made a HUGE post on Edgar Cayce

Edgar da man, yo 


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147344 - 11/30/03 06:46 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Death is the great abyss of the unknown.

To conquer the unknown, one must relish it.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineFrog
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147452 - 11/30/03 07:23 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
:nonono: Obviously you made the same mistake as Muhurgle did...you misunderstood the post. 




'splain it to me, Lucy.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147468 - 11/30/03 07:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
I just had an epiphany related to the subject of the whole matter of what is described in LoF's post...

have any of you had like, yknow.."future flashbacks"? Sorta like Deja Vu, but a lil "more" than that? Like suddenly you feel like you've been there, you've already seen this, you actually "remember" this moment, even though it didn't happen up until then.

I've had several incidents like this...like small things that have no significance, I'll have this image in my head, just some random image...and like, years later.. BOOM! i LIVE that image! i see the whole "scene" right in front of me, like right there just as exactly i have pictured in my head years ago...like just standing there doing nothing really noteworthy of significance or whatever...
I've had this happen to me quite a few times...and i've talked to alot of other people about it, who also related....so this could indeed be another supporting factor of the whole premise which is quite thoroughly and articulately explained in LoF's post...
like maybe we're actually "remembering" what we had planned out?
And maybe psychics are people who remember faster than most people?
Hmmm...I'ma dwell on this epiphany s'more...




^Thats also just another one of my own "clues" that support my belief in reincarnation.
I know quite a few people who have had this type of experience...
You could do a world-wide survey of it with everybody, and you would get countless people reporting the exact same type of experience(s).
What does this lead to? Who can say? Nobody can say with absolute authority. But, I can come to my own conclusion, based on what I feel to be the most likely cause, which is Fate.
I believe in Fate. I'm a Fatalist. What I've described above, that not only me but so many others have experienced, supports Fate. You don't have to believe it if you dont want to, hell you can believe whatever you feel is best, be it a simple "glitch in the Matrix".
I believe, that our subconscious mind leaks memories from us planning out the lives that we incarnate into, hence the "future flashbacks" that so many people have at times...
Again, this is just one of my reasons for my choice in the belief, of an afterlife.
If you have a better theory explaining otherwise, please feel free to share, I'm open-minded to listen to whatever ideas you feel is better and nor will I judge you for your ideas.




Quote:

muhurgle said:
Even if your deja-vu experience was significant, I don't see how that relates to reincarnation or afterlife.




Okay, I'm gonna go real slow for you here...

Lets say you have a "daydream" or whatever...and you have a very clear vivid image of you doing some random thing, say, washing dishes on a sunny day.
Then you snap outta your day-dream state of mind as someone calls your name and then thats the end of that.

Then, say, 1 year later....
on a sunny afternoon...you decide to clean the house...and along doing so, do the dishes...you begin to wash the dishes...and alla the sudden, it hits you like a frieght train...you remember that exact moment...and yor mind races to make sense out of the whole situation, and if you're quick enough in your memory, you'll remember that you actually had that EXACT same "scene" daydreamed out in your head, a year ago. Everything was identical.

Now, on top of that, lets say you had SEVERAL similar experiences with you having this exact same type of incident, throughout your life.
And on top of that, you've talked to people about, and THEY TOO, relate to it and have experienced the same thing, and so on.

Now tell me, what would YOU, make of that? what conclusion would you come to as to what the reason behind the incident that not JUST you, but other people all over the world has experienced? And why would you come to that conclusion.

I already told you my opinion and conclusion on the matter in my other post.





God help you if this isnt like feeding you with a baby spoon


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleLord_of_Fungus
The AlmightyLord & Master ofThe Universe

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 167
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147478 - 11/30/03 07:42 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
what's with all you people out there (You know who you are) who come out and explain how we will all be reincarnated, or will go to heaven, or we have karma, or anything along those lines. How can you claim to know what happens after death? Who gave you the authority to come out and state how the whole "system" works? Let me guess.. some stupid book you read.

Many a post quoted from various publications may have led you to this assumption, however assumptions are for the ill prepared and undereducated, so while you chew on that for the moment Mixomatosis, let me explain to those that did in all earnestness wonder..that no one person is granted the "authority" to state how the whole "system" works, it is a matter of first and foremost the belief in a "system". Second, comprehension of how the said system operates, and lastly, free will, applied to the desire to share the aforementioned information. Are you following along thus far Mixedomatosis?

That's right, I invite you to state why you believe whatever afterlife fantasy you believe. It seems strange to me that anyone would claim to have the answer considering how you can't possibly have the answer.




Now then.. Moving along, I so dislike to acknowledge let alone to remark upon your obvious albeit pitiful attempt to incite a debate in philosophy, but this once I will in the hope that you will find lucidity amidst the words I am about to write.. I'll type slowly especially for you Mixedcomatosis, to make this statement:
That's right, I invite you to state why you believe whatever afterlife fantasy you believe.
is incorrect. We are adults discussing philosophy, no? Fantasy should be applied to perhaps your dungeons and dragons message board. No offense mind you, however the topic at hand is bit more mature not to mention possibly applicable to a "realtime situation". Then to follow you shoot yourself in the foot with the ending statement:
It seems strange to me that anyone would claim to have the answer considering how you can't possibly have the answer.
And I use the term shoot yourself in the foot considering it takes about as much intellect to do so as you have packed into that statement. You contradict yourself Mixedcomatoecyst when you claim to acknowledge the endless plethora of possible theories, however here you have already turned your back on them without rhyme or reason to support such a statement.. tsk, and never once giving thought to a single presentation of what could possibly be a... dare I say it.. Viable argument? OH, and for the record, I speak from (a near death) experience when I state that I know that reincarnation is the probability.


--------------------


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147500 - 11/30/03 07:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"I would like to answer this with another question: Is there actually any proof that reincarnation doesn?t exist? "

That's a logical fallacy along the lines of "Can you prove that Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny doesn't exist! Yeessh..! :shake: 


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #2147537 - 11/30/03 08:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Lord o' Fungus: :thumbup:

And ToiletDuk: Fallacious or not, it's still valid. Besides, Santa DOES exist, I saw him at the mall last x-mas. Lotsa people witnessed it. Even sat on his lap.
I met the Easter Bunny sometime ago too...gave me chocolate eggs and stuff. Oh and there were numerous witnesses there too, so I have credibility. :wink:

 


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleLord_of_Fungus
The AlmightyLord & Master ofThe Universe

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 167
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147570 - 11/30/03 08:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

*nodding vehemently towards Skorpivomusterion.. and then brushing toilet duk off* Get away kid, your upsetting the elves.


--------------------


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