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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
You silly afterlife-believing fools...
    #2145946 - 11/30/03 06:05 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

... is what a jerk might say if we were allowed to attack people on this forum.

Basically, what's with all you people out there (You know who you are) who come out and explain how we will all be reincarnated, or will go to heaven, or we have karma, or anything along those lines. How can you claim to know what happens after death? Who gave you the authority to come out and state how the whole "system" works? Let me guess.. some stupid book you read.

That's right, I invite you to state why you believe whatever afterlife fantasy you believe. It seems strange to me that anyone would claim to have the answer considering how you can't possibly have the answer.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2145954 - 11/30/03 06:15 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

a solid belief in the afterlife is like a comforting electric blanket. What is comfort? why do us humans strive for mental comfortability, even though it is often analgous with fantastical beliefs?

Belief in an afterlife, belief in a creator god who gave you a purpose (even though it may be as redundant as worshipping the one who created you) are all attempts to return one's mind the comfort state of our fetal incubation.

Not me though, I'm not gonna opt for the warm blanket, because I know I'll pull it over my eyes and miss out on the great picture-show that is life. Having a concrete belief in afterlife hinders one's ability to truly experience true experience?

yes, no? we're in a hedgemaze and we dont know whats in the middle, by making up stories that the middle of the maze will be filled with cushy sofas and big screen TVs, are we not robbing ourselves the direct experience of being lost in a maze?

am I the only one who finds being lost enjoyable?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Invisiblemedicinebag
Hunting
Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Positronius]
    #2145969 - 11/30/03 06:25 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

What does Mixamatosis believe is going to happen to his mind/ego/personality/memories/experiences when breath ceases to flow from his lungs??????


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OfflineDroz
Love of Life
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Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 7 years, 7 days
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: medicinebag]
    #2146037 - 11/30/03 07:19 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

It's fun to believe. Basically I get to mentally masturbate on my own ideas. Sometimes I let my ideas flow other times I keep them inside. I'm not one who is that good at communicating images that i see. I'm in a daze at the moment trying to understand what is going on in my mind. But it's all good in the end we all get to see the reality which one has created in ones own mind to the fullest. If it's not true like many say, then we die. Simple.

Peace,
Droz


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146272 - 11/30/03 11:29 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

lemme ask you: What's YOUR belief? That not a damn thing happens to us when we die? Whatever your belief is....you can't prove that your belief is right more than anybody else's belief is right.

So I could call you a "sillly non-afterlife-believing fool"...that is, if thats what you choose.

It all boils down to what YOU honestly feel to be true. If it gives you comfort knowing that your soul doesn't transcend death, then hey, go for it, who am I to judge you if thats what makes you happy?


As for your invitation to state why I believe in reincarnation....the following says it all right here...
Quote:


Is there actually proof of reincarnation?

I would like to answer this with another question: Is there actually any proof that reincarnation doesn?t exist? This question poses a greater problem for the skeptic than the believer. Proof is intangible. When you research and do your homework on the existence of reincarnation, you?ll find that there?s much more ?proof? for it than against it.
If you establish your case on the laws of probability, then the existence of reincarnation would triumph because more than two-thirds of the world believes in it. If you base your argument on historical documents, then you?ll find that there are many references to reincarnation, particularly in the Bible. If you predicate your findings on logic, then there?s no contest: Reincarnation is more logical than any other opposing viewpoint. If you strictly rely on religion as your basis for a conclusion, then the argument for reincarnation wins again, because it?s either believed whole-heartedly, or at least, tolerated by the vast majority of the world?s populace.
When substantiated by historical documents, the case for the existence of reincarnation has far more followers than opponents. All of the major religious writings mention reincarnation. None of them, including the Bible, ever state that reincarnation, or the belief that it exists, is false. The vast majority of famous authors have written about reincarnation; few have not. The Dead Sea Scrolls, and writings by the Essenes, (an early Gnostic sect), are making modern-day Christianity take notice in reanalyzing their theological teachings. These scribes were reincarnationists. Early writings on reincarnation were composed as far back as 2500 B.C. in China. Other writings, such those in Egypt 3500 B.C., or in China as far back as 4500 B.C., all predate the earliest records of Judaism from which Christianity sprung.
Great philosophers and writers?such as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Pythagoras, Lao-tze, Chang-tze, and Plotinus?all believed in reincarnation. Christian theologians?including St. Augustine, St. Clement, Origen, Basilides, Christian apologist Tatian, Valentinus, the manes, St. Jerome, Porphyry, St. Pamphilius, Iamblichus, Athenagoras, and St. Gregory?are just a few of the legions who believed in reincarnation. The Nag-Hammadi scrolls indicate that Jesus was either an Essene, a student of the Essenes, or at least associated very closely with this sect (which was said to have believed in reincarnation) during the ?lost? or ?silent? years of his life between the ages of 12 and 30. All this evidence supports the argument for reincarnation, rather than against it.
If you base your case on logic, the existence of reincarnation prevails. Reincarnation furnishes us with very logical explanations for the inequities of life. Why is one person born poor, and another rich? Why does one person die young as opposed to another who lives a long life? Why is one person crippled, and another whole? I could go on and on. The existence of reincarnation offers a reason for these injustices because it presents the case that there?s more than one life to live.
If God is all-loving and all merciful (the basic teachings of Jesus Christ), then why does evil exist? Negativity can?t survive when you know through God?s loving and merciful nature, He allows you to incarnate more than once to perfect your soul. You can then experience a life in which you?re rich, poor, crippled, whole, young, or old. Logically, reincarnation doesn?t detract from the teachings of Jesus; it augments them. God doesn?t care how long it takes or how many lives you must live to perfect. He only wants you to achieve the ultimate goal?the perfection of your own soul.
If the argument against the existence of reincarnation is based on religion, then the nonbelievers are not well informed. All of the Eastern religions support reincarnation, and Western religions are changing their views rapidly. Nowadays, most Christians either believe in reincarnation or tolerate it because in no way does it detract from their teachings. In fact, it actually broadens them.
If you research the early Christian church, you?ll find that almost all of the references to reincarnation in the Bible were expunged by the fourth century. This was an act of humankind, not God; regardless of this attempt to eradicate reincarnation, almost every Christian Gnostic sect still believed in it. These sects, in turn, were literally ?wiped out? by the early Church. The history of the Christian Church is filled with murder, bloodshed, and torture. (The Holy Inquisition is a prime example.) The early Christians, who believed in reincarnation, were much more loving and understanding than the ?warlike? Church rulers of the Middle Ages.
Despite many of the arguments disputing its existence, reincarnation seems to have the upper hand?truth always surfaces in the end. If skeptics argue with you, ask them to research reincarnation and try to prove it doesn?t exist. They can investigate it endlessly, but they won?t find any true evidence against it. It won?t matter, though, because in their search, they?ll find tomes of overwhelming validation that it is, in fact, truth.







--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineFrog
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Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146280 - 11/30/03 11:35 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
How can you claim to know what happens after death? Who gave you the authority to come out and state how the whole "system" works? Let me guess.. some stupid book you read.

That's right, I invite you to state why you believe whatever afterlife fantasy you believe. It seems strange to me that anyone would claim to have the answer considering how you can't possibly have the answer.




First, I was a Catholic. Then I became a Christian. I did not believe in reincarnation because it was against the teachings of the churches to which I belonged. I went through a huge awakening a year and a half ago. I read lots of books. Then I read Edgar Casey. I am convinced that there is an after-life. I am convinced that there is more to this world and this life than what we see, physically.

Read "The Field", too.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146304 - 11/30/03 11:57 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If you base your case on logic, the existence of reincarnation prevails. Reincarnation furnishes us with very logical explanations for the inequities of life. Why is one person born poor, and another rich? Why does one person die young as opposed to another who lives a long life? Why is one person crippled, and another whole? I could go on and on. The existence of reincarnation offers a reason for these injustices because it presents the case that there?s more than one life to live.

Whoever wrote this, obviously hasn't got even the faintest grasp of logic.

I could give you thousand different theories on what happens to us after we die and nobody could really refute them. Does that mean that they're all right, or all equally plausible? Why have you chosen one particular belief then?

Another nugget from your quote is that since so many people believe it, it must be true. Why do you think people believe this? Because they want it to be true perhaps?

It all boils down to what YOU honestly feel to be true. If it gives you comfort knowing that your soul doesn't transcend death, then hey, go for it

For me, it would be a very great comfort to know that there was something after death. Most people would agree to that. But just becaues you want something to be true doesn't make it so. You should be particularily suspicious of anything you hold as true when that is something you wish very strongly for.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146315 - 11/30/03 12:08 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

There is actually a solid reason to believe in an afterlife: ppl who dont will be very hesitant about launching an armed revolution against a repressive government.

Not surprisingly, the opposite belief has also been used by govts in the past to threaten divine retribution as punishment for disobedience along with execution. But in this case the state is taking two steps, whereas denial of an afterlife requires only one, and as such is more questionable.


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlineergot
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 685
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146320 - 11/30/03 12:13 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

No evidence of an after-life. Period. Mixomatosis is cool for bringing this topic to a thread. We die, we decompose, we fuel other life through our organic waste. Our existence does not end, but our chance to experience it does. And nothing more could ever prossibly be proven at this stage of humankind.


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146321 - 11/30/03 12:16 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
No evidence of an after-life. Period. Mixomatosis is cool for bringing this topic to a thread. We die, we decompose, we fuel other life through our organic waste. Our existence does not end, but our chance to experience it does. And nothing more could ever prossibly be proven at this stage of humankind.




No one is debating that we physically die and decompose. The question is of a spiritual matter, and there is no way we can even begin to prove any belief as to what happens in any way. It is beyond our level. If we were capable of understanding at this point and time, we already would know.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2146326 - 11/30/03 12:20 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

We all have to have faith in something...whether it be an afterlife or NO afterlife.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: adrug]
    #2146342 - 11/30/03 12:32 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

adrug said:
We all have to have faith in something...whether it be an afterlife or NO afterlife. 




Well, myself, I believe in the soul. I believe in reincarnation until we learn enough to wake up and live in our true state. I guess it is sort of hard to decide on something, eh? hehe

But I don't like expect anything to happen, because there just isn't any way of knowing. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146363 - 11/30/03 12:40 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
No evidence of an after-life. Period. Mixomatosis is cool for bringing this topic to a thread. We die, we decompose, we fuel other life through our organic waste. Our existence does not end, but our chance to experience it does. And nothing more could ever prossibly be proven at this stage of humankind.




Theres just as much evidence of no after-life.


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146375 - 11/30/03 12:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

muhurgle said:
But just becaues you want something to be true doesn't make it so.   




Just because you want no-higher-existence after-death to be true, doesnt make it so. :wink: 


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlineergot
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Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2146382 - 11/30/03 12:46 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Exactly. But if we were to choose faith wisely, it would be much more intelligent to choose no after-life because there is no evidence, so it implies a lack there of.


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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Anonymous

Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146406 - 11/30/03 01:00 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

the law of conservation of matter and energy state that matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.

this would lead me to assume that the contents of the universe are static. and so, what YOU are never dies, it will always exist. it just exists in a different state.

so 'after life' is a misnomer. there is no 'after'. there just.. is!

i THINK that makes sense, anyway.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146413 - 11/30/03 01:02 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

How is it much more intelligent to choose belief in no-afterlife because there's no evidence for an afterlife? Using that logic, you could equally say that it's much more intelligent to choose belief in an after-life because there's no evidence that there ISN'T.

And the fact is, there's MORE evidence for reincarnation than there is AGAINST it.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlineergot
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146417 - 11/30/03 01:04 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"And the fact is, there's MORE evidence for reincarnation than there is AGAINST it."

Is this a joke?

Okay... do you believe in the Loch Ness? Bigfoot? Be honest with yourself... There is no evidence for these and most people are much more skeptical, but with an after-life people lose all rationale.

Immaculate is right... like I said before "Our existence does not end, but our chance to experience it does." We aren't what we once were, but our pieces are still around... and hopefully being put to good use (perhaps DNA memory like Timothy Leary professed).


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146420 - 11/30/03 01:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

But since theres equal evidence to the contrary, there is still a 50% percent chance that an afterlife exists. Similarly, there is also no evidence for or against divine retribution, so there is also a 50% probability of that given that an afterlife has occurred. When the probabilities are combined, theres still a 25% chance of going to hell either way. So while the odds may be in your favour, its nothing to bet the ranch on either.


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlineergot
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2146432 - 11/30/03 01:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Hey, now there's also a chance I am divine and I will damn you to hell after this world no matter what..... a 50% chance, actually. WORSHIP ME, O STATISTICAL ONE.


--------------------
"Remain a learner, never become a knower." - Osho


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146438 - 11/30/03 01:19 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
I just had an epiphany related to the subject of the whole matter of what is described in LoF's post...

have any of you had like, yknow.."future flashbacks"? Sorta like Deja Vu, but a lil "more" than that? Like suddenly you feel like you've been there, you've already seen this, you actually "remember" this moment, even though it didn't happen up until then.

I've had several incidents like this...like small things that have no significance, I'll have this image in my head, just some random image...and like, years later.. BOOM! i LIVE that image! i see the whole "scene" right in front of me, like right there just as exactly i have pictured in my head years ago...like just standing there doing nothing really noteworthy of significance or whatever...
I've had this happen to me quite a few times...and i've talked to alot of other people about it, who also related....so this could indeed be another supporting factor of the whole premise which is quite thoroughly and articulately explained in LoF's post...
like maybe we're actually "remembering" what we had planned out?
And maybe psychics are people who remember faster than most people?
Hmmm...I'ma dwell on this epiphany s'more...




^Thats also just another one of my own "clues" that support my belief in reincarnation.
I know quite a few people who have had this type of experience...
You could do a world-wide survey of it with everybody, and you would get countless people reporting the exact same type of experience(s).
What does this lead to? Who can say? Nobody can say with absolute authority. But, I can come to my own conclusion, based on what I feel to be the most likely cause, which is Fate.
I believe in Fate. I'm a Fatalist. What I've described above, that not only me but so many others have experienced, supports Fate. You don't have to believe it if you dont want to, hell you can believe whatever you feel is best, be it a simple "glitch in the Matrix".
I believe, that our subconscious mind leaks memories from us planning out the lives that we incarnate into, hence the "future flashbacks" that so many people have at times...
Again, this is just one of my reasons for my choice in the belief, of an afterlife.
If you have a better theory explaining otherwise, please feel free to share, I'm open-minded to listen to whatever ideas you feel is better and nor will I judge you for your ideas.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146442 - 11/30/03 01:21 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Believing that you're born again after you die, is one theory. Maybe after we die, we become a star in the sky? Or maybe you go to heaven with god and his pals? Or maybe you haunt for ever, as a ghost? Or maybe your consciousness is transfered to an inanimate object, like a rock? Maybe your consciousness split off into all the particles that you're made up of, and when you're eventually part of another being, you'll be part of that consciousness? Or maybe, nothing happens. Maybe you just cease to exist?

Why don't you believe in any of these other theories? They're just as plausible as the standard reincarnation scenario, aren't they? Now, I could make up thousands of different theories like that, and they would all be equally good.

Here comes the difficult part: since they are all equally good, and there is no proof for any of them, what would be the logical conclusion? It would be the one that requires least conjecture. The one that doesn't require that I dream up the mechanism of how my soul is transfered to a star, or anything else like that, without any proof of that actually happening. And that just happens to be the conclusion that we just cease to exist.

This isn't proof that there is no afterlife, or whatever. It's just the most plausible theory, and there is a significant difference between plausbile and proven.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146443 - 11/30/03 01:21 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hey, now there's also a chance I am divine and I will damn you to hell after this world no matter what..... a 50% chance, actually. WORSHIP ME, O STATISTICAL ONE.




And there is a 100% chance that i am divine because i am a Lamian...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ]
    #2146446 - 11/30/03 01:24 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

makes sense to me...


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Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146449 - 11/30/03 01:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Even if your deja-vu experience was significant, I don't see how that relates to reincarnation or afterlife.


--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146453 - 11/30/03 01:29 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Why don't you believe in any of these other theories? They're just as plausible as the standard reincarnation scenario, aren't they? Now, I could make up thousands of different theories like that, and they would all be equally good.


:thumbup:

Please answer his questions!   

Edit: Is my "When we die we all become the pubes of master Frodo!" theory already accepted?


Edited by Annom (11/30/03 01:34 PM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Annom]
    #2146500 - 11/30/03 01:47 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

If you look at every natural thing in existance, you will start to see a pattern.
There is a cycle to everything.
The planets revolve around stars, protons revolve around nucleus.
Leaves fall from the trees and nourish the Earth
In the Spring, they return
Water evaporates from the surface and collects in the sky
Only to precipitate back down once again
Physical Life on Earth is a collection of millions of cycles.
Being a living human is no exception.
No you will not find proof of an 'afterlife'
Not until you die, or have an out of body experience, whichever comes first
Because we are not special, we are subject to the same laws as everything else in existance.
Evolution is the name of the game, and to evolve one must experience and learn.
You don't learn by everything going black.
I mean, if you want to cease existing after your physical life, that's your perogitave.
But me, I am going to move my consciousness to the other side, where I will analyze my life and the lives of previous incarnations. I will return to spirit and rejoice with my celestial family as I dance amidst endless flowing energy. And then I shall incarnate again.
Consciousness is not a product of the brain. It resides in, for the time being. It is energy, and last I checked, you cannot destroy energy.
So go ahead and believe in whatever brings you peace. But you will not sway those who have experienced firsthand and remember.
Eternity can really be a bitch sometimes.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146520 - 11/30/03 01:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

muhurgle said:
Believing that you're born again after you die, is one theory. Maybe after we die, we become a star in the sky? Or maybe you go to heaven with god and his pals? Or maybe you haunt for ever, as a ghost? Or maybe your consciousness is transfered to an inanimate object, like a rock? Maybe your consciousness split off into all the particles that you're made up of, and when you're eventually part of another being, you'll be part of that consciousness? Or maybe, nothing happens. Maybe you just cease to exist?

Sure I could come up with all kinds of loony out-landish infinite possibilities, maybe we turn into a blade of grass? maybe we become a zit on someone's ass? Maybe our souls evaporate into the clouds and transform into rain and hits the ocean and evaporates all over again?


Why don't you believe in any of these other theories?
Because I have to choose what I feel to be true. What my heart tells me is truly true. And that's Reincarnation. And the reason I choose reincarnation, is because sincerely doubt that I turn into a star, or a blade of grass, or become a molecule in a dog's turd when I die. I believe in my theory, because it's by far the most PLAUSIBLE theory, at least IMHO.

They're just as plausible as the standard reincarnation scenario, aren't they?
Thats a matter of opinion. My opinion of the matter is that the theory(s) of reincarnation has REASONING behind it, you reincarnate for a REASON, be it to come to this plane of existence to learn and progress your soul, throughout the lives that YOU planned out yourself.
If you find equally plausible reasoning behind any other belief, no matter how far fetched, and feel that you believe that is the most likely cause, then believe it. Because I believe the truth is...it doesn't change what really happens when you die, be it going back home to the next dimension where you came from. In the end, everybody reaches the same destination. Regardless of what they beleive. This is my belief.


Now, I could make up thousands of different theories like that, and they would all be equally good.
You really think the theory of becoming a dust-mite on some guy's hairy armpit has an equally good reasoning behind the theory as the "standard reincarnation" theory? If you do, then -shrugs- whatever floats your boat.

Here comes the difficult part: since they are all equally good,
Thats still a matter of opinion.

and there is no proof for any of them, what would be the logical conclusion? It would be the one that requires least conjecture. The one that doesn't require that I dream up the mechanism of how my soul is transfered to a star, or anything else like that, without any proof of that actually happening. And that just happens to be the conclusion that we just cease to exist.

to quote Chris Rock "If everybody knew we lived after death, like if we had proof that reincarnation existed, the world would way crazier! waaaay crazier!" In my own opinion in my own belief in reincarnation, there is good reason behind that, which Chris Rock stated quite humorously :smile:


This isn't proof that there is no afterlife, or whatever. It's just the most plausible theory, and there is a significant difference between plausbile and proven. 




True. 


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2146535 - 11/30/03 02:00 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Good post!


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146553 - 11/30/03 02:10 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

muhurgle said:
Even if your deja-vu experience was significant, I don't see how that relates to reincarnation or afterlife.




Okay, I'm gonna go real slow for you here...

Lets say you have a "daydream" or whatever...and you have a very clear vivid image of you doing some random thing, say, washing dishes on a sunny day.
Then you snap outta your day-dream state of mind as someone calls your name and then thats the end of that.

Then, say, 1 year later....
on a sunny afternoon...you decide to clean the house...and along doing so, do the dishes...you begin to wash the dishes...and alla the sudden, it hits you like a frieght train...you remember that exact moment...and yor mind races to make sense out of the whole situation, and if you're quick enough in your memory, you'll remember that you actually had that EXACT same "scene" daydreamed out in your head, a year ago. Everything was identical.

Now, on top of that, lets say you had SEVERAL similar experiences with you having this exact same type of incident, throughout your life.
And on top of that, you've talked to people about, and THEY TOO, relate to it and have experienced the same thing, and so on.

Now tell me, what would YOU, make of that? what conclusion would you come to as to what the reason behind the incident that not JUST you, but other people all over the world has experienced? And why would you come to that conclusion.

I already told you my opinion and conclusion on the matter in my other post.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: adrug]
    #2146555 - 11/30/03 02:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Skorpivo: Do you believe you always incarnate into a human being?

...and to the people that do, what would happen if the species became extinct? ...and how come we don't incarnate into living beings on other planets?


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2146558 - 11/30/03 02:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Brilliant post :thumbup: 


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146561 - 11/30/03 02:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
Quote:

muhurgle said:
Even if your deja-vu experience was significant, I don't see how that relates to reincarnation or afterlife.




Okay, I'm gonna go real slow for you here...

Lets say you have a "daydream" or whatever...and you have a very clear vivid image of you doing some random thing, say, washing dishes on a sunny day.
Then you snap outta your day-dream state of mind as someone calls your name and then thats the end of that.

Then, say, 1 year later....
on a sunny afternoon...you decide to clean the house...and along doing so, do the dishes...you begin to wash the dishes...and alla the sudden, it hits you like a frieght train...you remember that exact moment...and yor mind races to make sense out of the whole situation, and if you're quick enough in your memory, you'll remember that you actually had that EXACT same "scene" daydreamed out in your head, a year ago. Everything was identical.

Now, on top of that, lets say you had SEVERAL similar experiences with you having this exact same type of incident, throughout your life.
And on top of that, you've talked to people about, and THEY TOO, relate to it and have experienced the same thing, and so on.

Now tell me, what would YOU, make of that? what conclusion would you come to as to what the reason behind the incident that not JUST you, but other people all over the world has experienced? And why would you come to that conclusion.

I already told you my opinion and conclusion on the matter in my other post.




Perhaps we are destined to re-live our same life over and over in some cyclical universe? And our subconsious leaks out memories? ...perhaps adding randomness to each life each time?


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146565 - 11/30/03 02:17 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Ergot: I don't believe that I would CHOOSE to incarnate into a Duck-billed platypus :smirk: 


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146578 - 11/30/03 02:22 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:

Perhaps we are destined to re-live our same life over and over in some cyclical universe? And our subconsious leaks out memories? ...perhaps adding randomness to each life each time?




Very good, now you can speculate theories as to what the possibilites behind such occurences may be.
Now, try to find solid plausible reasoning behind what you would honestly FEEL to be most likely true.
There's always going to be a myriad of "possibilties".
It's up to YOU to choose what you feel, deep down within yourself, to be true.
Think deeply about it. Dont just throw out random possibilties.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146583 - 11/30/03 02:23 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

But, what will happen when/if humans become extinct?


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146589 - 11/30/03 02:24 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

You're still thinking in terms of this physical plane of existence.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146606 - 11/30/03 02:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
...and how come we don't incarnate into living beings on other planets?




who says we don't? :grin: Who says other beings from other planets havent incarnated on this planet?

Perhaps George Lucas incarnated on this planet from a distant planet in a galaxy far far away...Perhaps subconscious memories of past lives on alien worlds and advanced civilizations fueled his creation of Star Wars...

Perhaps the same goes for Gene Roddenberry...the creator of Star Trek. 


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146613 - 11/30/03 02:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Um. I would come to the conclusion that one could see glimpses of the future? And.. how does that relate to an afterlife?

See glimpses of future -> something very obvious -> Afterlife

Yeah, I understand it now :smile: 


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146615 - 11/30/03 02:34 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

or perhaps they are using something called creativity and not everything has a supernatural origin.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146629 - 11/30/03 02:40 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Human is a very common form of intelligent life in this galaxy. If humans on Earth go extinct... so what.. who cares. They probably brought it on themselves. And then there is still countless other planets with humans. Like I said, we aren't special.
But then we are. Because we exist. And existing is special.
They don't just give out existance to anything.. well yeah they do but that's beside the point.

What I choose, deep inside, to understand and know about death, is that it is a necessary part of life. With light comes dark, and they are balanced. With Life comes Death, and it is good. Everything that lives, dies. That's part of the cycle. But notice how I said cycle, and not line. Death is not the end, because you won't get off that easy, pussies. :grin: If I've had to go through hundreds of thousands of lives and countless hard times and struggles and battles and incarnations and pain and misery and joy and astral projections.. I'm sure as hell not going to let you live one life and just go black. Yeah, you can cogitize for a little while.. think about your life.. that's pretty black.. but then it'll soon be time to wake up, and time to experience some more. MUWHAHAHAHA
Wait I got off track there. See there are certain beings on the 'other side', who make sure people go where they need to go. You can't just disappear. I'm one of them while not physical.
To me, Reincarnation isn't some speculation, or possibility, it is a scientific fact. And I will prove it to all of you when you die. Just look for the tall guy with a purple glow flying around.
Then I will telepathically show you all your previous lives, maybe take your energy body for a trip to the other side of the universe and back, and have you observe the endless soul interactions and cycles from an objective perspective. Soon you will realize that there is no 'afterlife', it's just life. And it's a continual process of birth and death, experience, insight, injustice, and transformation. Many times will you change your personality. Many times will you die. There is no escape, except to learn and ascend. If you so choose, you can reincarnate for ever and ever. And you will, until you learn the way.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146647 - 11/30/03 02:46 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

muhurgle said:
Um. I would come to the conclusion that one could see glimpses of the future? And.. how does that relate to an afterlife?

See glimpses of future -> something very obvious -> Afterlife

Yeah, I understand it now :smile: 




Either you didnt know what I was talking about when I was referring to "LoF's post" or didn't read it all completely...
What I explained in the post, was that my belief is that perhaps we are actually remembering what we had planned out before we incarnated. When we daydream, we tend to "wander off" in our minds, similar to actual night dreaming: deep into our subconscious. So perhaps we came across vague memories of us planning out our incarnations. This is my belief, and as well as that such incidents are actually quite beneficial, as a road sign. Saying yes, this is where you are, and this is where you're supposed to be, you're following through your life just as you planned out. Again, this is my belief.

Muhurgle, you tell me, what conclusion would you come to if this happens to you, and why? 


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Invisiblemuhurgle
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146663 - 11/30/03 02:49 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Ok, guessed I missed some of your post then. Sorry.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2146736 - 11/30/03 03:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
or perhaps they are using something called creativity and not everything has a supernatural origin. 




Where does the creativity come from? :wink: 
Think about why certain people seem to have BRILLIANT creativity when it comes to creating imaginary spaceships, alien worlds, and making entire sagas out of em on film, whereas some people can't even think up of a cool alien-name if their life counted on it.
So, perhaps.... :wink:


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146762 - 11/30/03 03:23 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

muhurgle said:
Believing that you're born again after you die, is one theory. Maybe after we die, we become a star in the sky? Or maybe you go to heaven with god and his pals? Or maybe you haunt for ever, as a ghost? Or maybe your consciousness is transfered to an inanimate object, like a rock? Maybe your consciousness split off into all the particles that you're made up of, and when you're eventually part of another being, you'll be part of that consciousness? Or maybe, nothing happens. Maybe you just cease to exist?

Why don't you believe in any of these other theories? They're just as plausible as the standard reincarnation scenario, aren't they? Now, I could make up thousands of different theories like that, and they would all be equally good.

Here comes the difficult part: since they are all equally good, and there is no proof for any of them, what would be the logical conclusion? It would be the one that requires least conjecture. The one that doesn't require that I dream up the mechanism of how my soul is transfered to a star, or anything else like that, without any proof of that actually happening. And that just happens to be the conclusion that we just cease to exist.

This isn't proof that there is no afterlife, or whatever. It's just the most plausible theory, and there is a significant difference between plausbile and proven. 




AWSOME POST !  :thumbup: :thumbup:
That's exactly what I always argue with people who
try to use the "proof by lack of contradiction", and
they never have an answer...
If one believes in God because there's no proof otherwise,
well then I could belive that my salt shaker created the
universe cause there's no proof otherwise...
 


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: muhurgle]
    #2146789 - 11/30/03 03:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

ok.. so let's see.. everything's a cycle, therefore we must die and be reborn again. Just like the water evaporating from a certain puddle and then falling back into the same puddle again, right? Oh wait.. no.. when water evaporates from one body of water its scattered across the planet and doesn't come together again. So how is it that our energy is somehow held together into a little unit? Why isn't it scattered across the universe never to be re-assembled? Let me guess.. 'cause the world is less scary if I believe it does.

Skorpivo: That does happen to me. Considering how I dream hours every day I don't find it too weird that every now and then I'll get a strong sense of deja vu, like maybe I dreamed that moment before. My friend who is studying to be a psychologist told me that scientists can induce that feeling in people by messing with their brains, so he brushes it off. It's just some physical chemical reaction in the brain, he'd say. In a way that doesn't mean ANYTHING but then it also opens up the possibility for the deja vu to be a chemical let loose in the brain by a situation completely unrelated to your memories. It might happen because of something you ate and not come from your memory bank at all.

The flaw in claiming that you know it's true because of your experience is that your ego is desperate to convince itself of an afterlife. For most of my life I believed in reincarnation. My friend the psychologist and I once talked to eachother about this when we were fifteen or so, and I was shocked to discover that he didn't believe anything happened when you died. I was quite surprised. I took it for granted that he believed in the afterlife, and just couldn't understand how someone could go about their daily business without believing there was some kind of purpose to it all. Eventually I became aware that I was ignoring the nagging voice saying "how can you know? How can you know?" By telling this story I don't mean to say "I converted therefore you will eventually."

So, in conclusion, you can't know that there is an afterlife. It doesn't matter if you astral project or if you've remembered your past lives in a hypnotic trance, the ego is a powerful presence and will take information and twist it into an interpretation that cushions or consoles itself concerning the eternity or lack thereof of its existence.

Oh, here's some more: You guys are claiming to know the purpose of all this afterlife mumbo-jumbo. You say "Well, we're here to evolve, and we want to evolve and trancend." But come on.. keep going. All you do is open it up for more questions. Why do we evolve? Why do we experience things over and over again to transcend this cycle? It's not an explanation of our situation at all, so quit it!

Also, what's the point? Why bother believing that we are part of this whole reincarnation thing? Is it relevant to us now? How is it relevant? Why should I believe this thing that can't be proven? Am I going to be better off in cycle of reincarnation if I believe in it? I don't see that that is the case, so I ask why believe when the only earthly reason to do so is to feel better about what is going to happen to you when you die?


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146799 - 11/30/03 03:46 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Also, what's the point? Why bother believing that we are part of this whole reincarnation thing? Is it relevant to us now? How is it relevant?

Yes it is relevant now. In life we experience things I will call 'life lessons'. For example I chose as one of my life lessons in this life to learn unconditional patience and respect for others. Now throughout the course of my life, I will encounter people and situations that will test my patience, and respect. Until I master this lesson, it will continue getting more and more intense, exponentially.

There is countless life lessons that one can experience. But they all relate to our previous lives and accumulated wisdom. Now there is a reason we don't remember our previous lives, and that is to protect the fragile ego, until we come of 'awakening', where we slowly begin to remember our reason for incarnating in the first place and the life lessons we chose, as well as previous lives and the lessons gained in them.

If you can see and understand your previous lives, you will have a better understanding of your current life, giving you more insight into life lessons, and unresolved karmic interactions between people, which may make your life easier. It's not to get ahead in the reincarnation cycle, or feel better about something when you die, it's to gain wisdom for the now.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2146802 - 11/30/03 03:49 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

So you are privileged for being reincarnated into a culture that has lots of new age books about reincarnation? If you appeared in a jungle tribe where people didn't believe in reincarnation you wouldn't be in such a good position? Is that what you're saying? That if you didn't believe in reincarnation you wouldn't grow as quickly?


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146807 - 11/30/03 03:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Why do we evolve? Why do we experience things over and over again to transcend this cycle?

Why does the sun shine? Why do the planets revolve around it?
Why do birds fly? Why do trees grow? Why do rocks exist?

Because that's the way it is. Creation needs to evolve for eternity. We and everything else in existance contribute to its evolution by constantly experiencing from every perspective imaginable.

I'm not here to console you into believing in some fantasy world where everything is pretty and nothing ever dies. Fuck that. The world and existance is a combination of the beautiful and the horribly ugly, and that is why we exist. To find that balance. There is peace and love and there is murder and war. Choose your side.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146813 - 11/30/03 03:57 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

So you are privileged for being reincarnated into a culture that has lots of new age books about reincarnation? If you appeared in a jungle tribe where people didn't believe in reincarnation you wouldn't be in such a good position? Is that what you're saying? That if you didn't believe in reincarnation you wouldn't grow as quickly?


What are you talking about? That's not what I'm saying at all. I was born in a "tribe" where people don't believe in reincarnation. It only helped me to grow. We set up our lives that way, so that we grow the most from our circumstances. It doesn't fucking matter if you believe in reincarnation or not, that really has nothing to do with it. I believe in it, because I do and everything I have experienced says that is the case. You can believe whatever you want, that's the beauty of free will. I'm not going to try and convince you or change your beliefs, I'm only going to state my own, and the reasons for feeling that way.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Shroomism]
    #2146816 - 11/30/03 03:57 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

by asking those questions I wasn't desperately clawing at the ground with my fingernails begging for a nugget of truth, I was pointing out, as you did in the post you just made that there is no answer, so don't ever fucking bother giving reasons like "we're here to evolve."


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146824 - 11/30/03 04:00 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Well, we are.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146832 - 11/30/03 04:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not going to try and convince you or change your beliefs, I'm only going to state my own, and the reasons for feelings that way.

ok, well there's something I REALLY don't understand then:

"It doesn't fucking matter if you believe in reincarnation or not, that really has nothing to do with it."

Ok, here's the ultimate point that has made me shed my belief in reincarnation. You say belief in reincarnation has nothing to do with it, right? So does that mean, then that I will evolve and eventually transcend this cycle without having to accept the belief that I am a reincarnating soul/consciousness?

That seems to be what you are saying, so then I ask: If it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in it, why bother? There is no "spiritual" reason to believe in it because your spirit will be ascending regardless, so it must be an earthly reason. And what is that earthly reason? Protecting yourself!


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146865 - 11/30/03 04:25 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:

Skorpivo: That does happen to me. Considering how I dream hours every day I don't find it too weird that every now and then I'll get a strong sense of deja vu, like maybe I dreamed that moment before. My friend who is studying to be a psychologist told me that scientists can induce that feeling in people by messing with their brains, so he brushes it off. It's just some physical chemical reaction in the brain, he'd say. In a way that doesn't mean ANYTHING but then it also opens up the possibility for the deja vu to be a chemical let loose in the brain by a situation completely unrelated to your memories. It might happen because of something you ate and not come from your memory bank at all.





No, I'm not talking about some mere lil odd feeling like "uh...huh? hmm...like, whoa, dude, deja vu or something..yea, totally."
I'm talking about SPECIFIC Scenes, IMAGES, in your head, that you dreamed of or visualized with your mind's eye in a day-dream state of mind....
How does a random chemical running around loose in my brain make me clearly visualize washing dishes, AND years later...it becomes REALITY, Exactly as I had envisioned it before.

I've seen documentaries on Discovery about parnormal phenomena on this type of matter, and they were interviewing people who've had this strange unexplained occurences similar to what I've had. One of em was an old lady who always had a very odd unexplained fondness of Ireland, for some reason she always felt drawn towards it. So years later, in her mid life, she finally went to Ireland on a vacation, and when she got there, she and her husband walked around the commonplaces and so on, she felt like she knew the whole town she was walking around, she even predicted what was gonna be around the block, every time she described what she "knew" was coming up, around the corner, she predicted it right! She knew the place, where she never had been, (in her current life) like the back of her hand.

Also, they had a person who went to a regressive hypnotist, in front of a crowd, mind you, who went under hypnotism, and did the routine regressive memory cues, and all of the sudden, the guy started speaking some weird mumbo jumbo that nobody could understand what he was even saying.
But, the hypnotist, on a hunch, saved the tape recording of it, and sent it to several etemologists and linguists who specialized in old languages, and guess what?
He was speaking a form of Egyptian...and was actually droning on about his life as an egyptian slave, and mentioned the building of pyramids and so on.

This is just ONE of many regressive hypnotistism experiences uncovering past lives.
I actually plan on going to one myself, to discover what past lives I've lived on this planet.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146883 - 11/30/03 04:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I would say that anyone who forms a "belief structure" around anything is acting rather silly...

Theory is so much more flexible :smirk:

If it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in it, why bother?

Are you assuming that it is a "bother" to believe in these things? Your grouping and generalization of such a large group of people is disturbing. Not everyone with ideas of an afterlife is "believing" in an afterlife for reasons of comfort, nor do we all hold blind faiths. 


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2146919 - 11/30/03 04:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

IMAGES, in your head, that you dreamed of or visualized with your mind's eye in a day-dream state of mind....

yeah that's what I'm talking about too. deja vu.. that's french for "already seen." I'll be sitting down and I'll suddenly realize that I've sat there before, with this object to my left in this position, having this same conversation with this same person. Don't try to tell me that I can't be experiencing what you're experiencing because I don't come to the same conclusions as you.

As for regressive hypnosis.. Just because it happens under hypnosis doesn't mean it's true. You have to be very careful with this. Under hypnosis the hypnotee is very likely to answer positively to questions. Say the patient is rambling about something the hypnotist can't make sense of, the hypnotist starts to ask questions. "Do you feel scared?" The patient will say "yes.. yes I do feel scared, very scared." So really you gotta be sure about how the hypnosis is done. It's easy for a hypnotist to "inject" past lives into people.

As for your example of the stage hypnosis, it's a complete lie, and is a perfect example of how you pull the wool over your own eyes to have a comfortable belief in death and the afterlife. There is no person on the planet that could understand whatever languages they were speaking in Egypt around the time of the building of the pyramids (2000 BC). How can you know what a language sounds like when they don't have a phonetic alphabet or recording equipment? We're damn lucky to have the rosetta stone, because it helped shed a little light on the ancient Egyptian's language. I'm sorry, but nobody can speak their language from back then. Also, slaves didn't build the pyramids. Furthermore, why is it that people who remember past lives always have memories of huge pivotal moments in human history? Suspicious if you ask me.

As for the discovery channel.. that's nice, but not only could the old lady be a complete fraud, but her experience might be interpreted any number of ways other than "she must be remembering a past life!" Obviously you want to believe that the whole story must be true, but it's not anything close to solid evidence. Just another anecdote.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146952 - 11/30/03 04:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Are you assuming that it is a "bother" to believe in these things? Your grouping and generalization of such a large group of people is disturbing. Not everyone with ideas of an afterlife is "believing" in an afterlife for reasons of comfort, nor do we all hold blind faiths.

Well, I think it's a fair question. Why believe when your belief has no consequences on the outcome? If your soul is going to evolve and grow regardless, then you are believing for an earthly reason, correct? I want to know what that reason is. I think you'll find that it's out of a need to console yourself about the afterlife.

To really grow and evolve spiritually I believe that the key is to accept reality for what it is: A complete mystery that gives us no answers to anything. The personal growth coming from acccepting this condition of apparent meaninglessness is key.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2146966 - 11/30/03 04:56 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

To really grow and evolve spiritually I believe that the key is to accept reality for what it is: A complete mystery that gives us no answers to anything.

How do you know this is what reality is? Reality does not seem much of a mystery to me...

For a guy attacking the beliefs of others, you hold some strange beliefs of your own. I think the phrase here is, "don't throw stones in glass houses" :wink:


--------------------
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But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: trendal]
    #2147000 - 11/30/03 05:03 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I happen to be a paradox. But let's keep this discussion on track. It's not about my beliefs, it's about me attacking other's beliefs. My attacking beliefs may imply that I have beliefs, but I don't, and if I seem to, then it's just a good location to let loose my artillery from. Just cause I live in a glass house, doesn't mean other people do. And anyway just because I dwell in a house of crystal-clarity doesn't mean it's made of glass. Back to defending YOUR beliefs people.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147009 - 11/30/03 05:05 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
IMAGES, in your head, that you dreamed of or visualized with your mind's eye in a day-dream state of mind....

yeah that's what I'm talking about too. deja vu.. that's french for "already seen." I'll be sitting down and I'll suddenly realize that I've sat there before, with this object to my left in this position, having this same conversation with this same person. Don't try to tell me that I can't be experiencing what you're experiencing because I don't come to the same conclusions as you.

No, I wasnt sure if you were on the same page as I was. But the conclusion you come to, is that those experiences are all the result of some chemical running around loose, in your brain? This is what you believe? lol, hey if it floats your boat, so be it, I'm not gonna judge your beliefs.

And btw, yes, there ARE egyptians, in Egypt, who still live in quite a medieval-state era compared to the higher societies of a world, and still speak egyptian, There are linguist specialists who still speak Gaelic for christ sakes.





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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147053 - 11/30/03 05:17 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

This is what you believe? lol, hey if it floats your boat, so be it, I'm not gonna judge your beliefs.

A stunning rebuttal! Laughing at my "stupid" beliefs, that's great! Not only that, but that's not even my belief! I guess you're just going to end the debate here without adressing my points? That's what I call victory.

And btw, yes, there ARE egyptians, in Egypt, who still live in quite a medieval-state era compared to the higher societies of a world, and still speak egyptian, There are linguist specialists who still speak Gaelic for christ sakes.

I know songs in gaelic.. it's not a rare language at all bud and not comparable to ancient egyptian toungues.

Well, maybe you never noticed how sometimes shakespeare is hard to understand? Languages change, and over the course of 4500 years, guess what? NOBODY is going to understand an egyptian language that old. It's going to be WAAAY too different. Hehe.. you got shut down pretty hard there, eh? Sorry.. kinda.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147086 - 11/30/03 05:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Following Late Egyptian are two stages of the spoken language, Demotic (c. 715 BC-470 AD) and Coptic (c. 400 AD-c. 1600). Egyptian words borrowed into early Greek probably reflect Demotic (Greek demotikos = "popular") pronunciation. Demotic was written in its own cursive script, so this form of the written language is also called "Demotic." While the last hieroglyphic inscription was made at Philae in 394 AD, not long after the Christian Roman Emperor Theodosius I (379-395) ordered the closure of pagan temples, the last Demotic text is from 470.

Demotic writing disappeared only because, as the Egyptians themselves converted to Christianity, they ceased to use the old script. Instead, they began to write in the Greek alphabet, with the addition of seven letters borrowed from Demotic to write sounds that didn't exist in Greek. Since vowels did exist in Greek, we suddenly have the complete vocalization of the last stage of the Egyptian language, which is then called "Coptic," from the Arabic term for Egyptian Christians





Coptic.. there ya go, we know how to pronounce older Egyptian than I expected, but there's still somewhere between 2500 to 3000 years back to the pyramid building times which is the language this guy would be speaking, and there's just too much evolution in language to understand a distance that great. Of course, if your story had any credibility, we'd know a lot more about the language back then and it would have been a huge victory for linguists if they could assemble a vocalized language from the pyramid-building time.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147090 - 11/30/03 05:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

but let's not get off topic here.. The point I'm trying to make is that your story has a simple and obvious flaw that you would have caught were you not blinding yourself by desperately searching for evidence to support a theory that you WANT to believe. Never underestimate the power of the ego.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147100 - 11/30/03 05:36 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

As Leary once said (ok these arent the exact words by my memory is shit) "nobody can remember being born, and yet nobody doubts that. So simply not remembering a past life is not proof for it not having existed."

Krishna


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Krishna]
    #2147105 - 11/30/03 05:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

there goes the backbone of my argument..


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147117 - 11/30/03 05:40 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
This is what you believe? lol, hey if it floats your boat, so be it, I'm not gonna judge your beliefs.

A stunning rebuttal! Laughing at my "stupid" beliefs, that's great! Not only that, but that's not even my belief! I guess you're just going to end the debate here without adressing my points? That's what I call victory.





Do tell, because I'm really interested in what a skeptic such as you may choose to believe. :smile: 


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OfflineFrog
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2147146 - 11/30/03 05:51 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ergot said:
No evidence of an after-life. Period. Mixomatosis is cool for bringing this topic to a thread. We die, we decompose, we fuel other life through our organic waste. Our existence does not end, but our chance to experience it does. And nothing more could ever prossibly be proven at this stage of humankind.




I forget who did it, but someone posted a test for determining if your beliefs are consistent. Part of the test related to one's basis for belief in God. One would receive a bullet for the following reason: You could believe in God without having a basis for it except belief. But you couldn't say others couldn't "not" believe in God for the same reason.

So those who don't want to belief there is anything to life after death, based on what they present as their evidence for believing that way, may do so. So may I believe that there is some type of life after death, based on the evidence I have accumulated for believing that way.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147171 - 11/30/03 05:56 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Hey man, don't come at me. You aren't off the hot seat till you admit complete and utter defeat.

I'm not defined by my beliefs, I'm a dynamic process.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: ergot]
    #2147188 - 11/30/03 06:01 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
I just had an epiphany related to the subject of the whole matter of what is described in LoF's post...

have any of you had like, yknow.."future flashbacks"? Sorta like Deja Vu, but a lil "more" than that? Like suddenly you feel like you've been there, you've already seen this, you actually "remember" this moment, even though it didn't happen up until then.

I've had several incidents like this...like small things that have no significance, I'll have this image in my head, just some random image...and like, years later.. BOOM! i LIVE that image! i see the whole "scene" right in front of me, like right there just as exactly i have pictured in my head years ago...like just standing there doing nothing really noteworthy of significance or whatever...
I've had this happen to me quite a few times...and i've talked to alot of other people about it, who also related....so this could indeed be another supporting factor of the whole premise which is quite thoroughly and articulately explained in LoF's post...
like maybe we're actually "remembering" what we had planned out?
And maybe psychics are people who remember faster than most people?
Hmmm...I'ma dwell on this epiphany s'more...





I've had this experience, except that, for me, it's dreams that come true. I don't see that it has anything to do with reincarnation. You wouldn't be wearing the same clothes, or be in the same building, if it was something that occurred in a previous life.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147232 - 11/30/03 06:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

:nonono: Obviously you made the same mistake as Muhurgle did...you misunderstood the post. 


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147234 - 11/30/03 06:12 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

but here's my belief in the afterlife just to give you something to chew on:

We die, we end existing. Our body breaks down and is consumed and distributed by different forces throughout the universe. Our individuality and our definition as any kind of "unit" is terminated by this process. Any soul, energy, mind, or spirit is analogous to our physical body, and the same happens to it.

I could explain this a bit more, but language would inhibit my transmission of information as I intend. But I'll do it anyway I guess:

Death is not to be feared. Well, it is when you're alive, but it's not to be feared because once you're dead, you don't care because you aren't there TO care. No being to be like "aw I'm dead." Some would say this is a blissful experience, and that's true.. but not really, because it could only be blissful if you were around to define it as that, so it's not really blissful. There ya go.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147274 - 11/30/03 06:24 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

From A biography of Edgar Cayce:
"What is the meaning of life?" he asked. "What is the real nature of man? What is the meaning of birth and death? Why are we here? Cayce accepted Mr. Lammers offer to explain these mysteries through his powers of hypnosis. What followed was the beginning of the metaphysical thought that emerged from 2,500 "Life" readings (information about a person's past lives), as distinguished from the "Physical" readings (medical diagnosis and cures) he had previously been giving.

For Cayce, this was the beginning of another period of tortuous self-doubt. Brought up in an atmosphere of strict, orthodox, Protestant Christianity, he was uninformed on the other great religions of the world and their similarities with his own. What the readings now said seemed foreign to everything he had been taught and had been teaching in his Sunday school classes for many years. The essential principles of the great religions, said the readings, were nevertheless all the same - they were only clothed in different garments.

Cayce withheld judgment on the point for a long time. In the end he and those close to the work came to accept reincarnation. It was improvable of course, but in provable instances the readings had shown themselves to be honest if not infallible. The answers were consistent.




http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce02.html

This is the main reason why I believe in reincarnation. No, there's is no "absolute" physical proof of an after-life, but after studying the bible and Cayce and some others, I decided to believe. No harm, no foul.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147330 - 11/30/03 06:41 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:
I made a HUGE post on Edgar Cayce

Edgar da man, yo 


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147344 - 11/30/03 06:46 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Death is the great abyss of the unknown.

To conquer the unknown, one must relish it.


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147452 - 11/30/03 07:23 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
:nonono: Obviously you made the same mistake as Muhurgle did...you misunderstood the post. 




'splain it to me, Lucy.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147468 - 11/30/03 07:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
I just had an epiphany related to the subject of the whole matter of what is described in LoF's post...

have any of you had like, yknow.."future flashbacks"? Sorta like Deja Vu, but a lil "more" than that? Like suddenly you feel like you've been there, you've already seen this, you actually "remember" this moment, even though it didn't happen up until then.

I've had several incidents like this...like small things that have no significance, I'll have this image in my head, just some random image...and like, years later.. BOOM! i LIVE that image! i see the whole "scene" right in front of me, like right there just as exactly i have pictured in my head years ago...like just standing there doing nothing really noteworthy of significance or whatever...
I've had this happen to me quite a few times...and i've talked to alot of other people about it, who also related....so this could indeed be another supporting factor of the whole premise which is quite thoroughly and articulately explained in LoF's post...
like maybe we're actually "remembering" what we had planned out?
And maybe psychics are people who remember faster than most people?
Hmmm...I'ma dwell on this epiphany s'more...




^Thats also just another one of my own "clues" that support my belief in reincarnation.
I know quite a few people who have had this type of experience...
You could do a world-wide survey of it with everybody, and you would get countless people reporting the exact same type of experience(s).
What does this lead to? Who can say? Nobody can say with absolute authority. But, I can come to my own conclusion, based on what I feel to be the most likely cause, which is Fate.
I believe in Fate. I'm a Fatalist. What I've described above, that not only me but so many others have experienced, supports Fate. You don't have to believe it if you dont want to, hell you can believe whatever you feel is best, be it a simple "glitch in the Matrix".
I believe, that our subconscious mind leaks memories from us planning out the lives that we incarnate into, hence the "future flashbacks" that so many people have at times...
Again, this is just one of my reasons for my choice in the belief, of an afterlife.
If you have a better theory explaining otherwise, please feel free to share, I'm open-minded to listen to whatever ideas you feel is better and nor will I judge you for your ideas.




Quote:

muhurgle said:
Even if your deja-vu experience was significant, I don't see how that relates to reincarnation or afterlife.




Okay, I'm gonna go real slow for you here...

Lets say you have a "daydream" or whatever...and you have a very clear vivid image of you doing some random thing, say, washing dishes on a sunny day.
Then you snap outta your day-dream state of mind as someone calls your name and then thats the end of that.

Then, say, 1 year later....
on a sunny afternoon...you decide to clean the house...and along doing so, do the dishes...you begin to wash the dishes...and alla the sudden, it hits you like a frieght train...you remember that exact moment...and yor mind races to make sense out of the whole situation, and if you're quick enough in your memory, you'll remember that you actually had that EXACT same "scene" daydreamed out in your head, a year ago. Everything was identical.

Now, on top of that, lets say you had SEVERAL similar experiences with you having this exact same type of incident, throughout your life.
And on top of that, you've talked to people about, and THEY TOO, relate to it and have experienced the same thing, and so on.

Now tell me, what would YOU, make of that? what conclusion would you come to as to what the reason behind the incident that not JUST you, but other people all over the world has experienced? And why would you come to that conclusion.

I already told you my opinion and conclusion on the matter in my other post.





God help you if this isnt like feeding you with a baby spoon


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleLord_of_Fungus
The AlmightyLord & Master ofThe Universe

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 167
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147478 - 11/30/03 07:42 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
what's with all you people out there (You know who you are) who come out and explain how we will all be reincarnated, or will go to heaven, or we have karma, or anything along those lines. How can you claim to know what happens after death? Who gave you the authority to come out and state how the whole "system" works? Let me guess.. some stupid book you read.

Many a post quoted from various publications may have led you to this assumption, however assumptions are for the ill prepared and undereducated, so while you chew on that for the moment Mixomatosis, let me explain to those that did in all earnestness wonder..that no one person is granted the "authority" to state how the whole "system" works, it is a matter of first and foremost the belief in a "system". Second, comprehension of how the said system operates, and lastly, free will, applied to the desire to share the aforementioned information. Are you following along thus far Mixedomatosis?

That's right, I invite you to state why you believe whatever afterlife fantasy you believe. It seems strange to me that anyone would claim to have the answer considering how you can't possibly have the answer.




Now then.. Moving along, I so dislike to acknowledge let alone to remark upon your obvious albeit pitiful attempt to incite a debate in philosophy, but this once I will in the hope that you will find lucidity amidst the words I am about to write.. I'll type slowly especially for you Mixedcomatosis, to make this statement:
That's right, I invite you to state why you believe whatever afterlife fantasy you believe.
is incorrect. We are adults discussing philosophy, no? Fantasy should be applied to perhaps your dungeons and dragons message board. No offense mind you, however the topic at hand is bit more mature not to mention possibly applicable to a "realtime situation". Then to follow you shoot yourself in the foot with the ending statement:
It seems strange to me that anyone would claim to have the answer considering how you can't possibly have the answer.
And I use the term shoot yourself in the foot considering it takes about as much intellect to do so as you have packed into that statement. You contradict yourself Mixedcomatoecyst when you claim to acknowledge the endless plethora of possible theories, however here you have already turned your back on them without rhyme or reason to support such a statement.. tsk, and never once giving thought to a single presentation of what could possibly be a... dare I say it.. Viable argument? OH, and for the record, I speak from (a near death) experience when I state that I know that reincarnation is the probability.


--------------------


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147500 - 11/30/03 07:52 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"I would like to answer this with another question: Is there actually any proof that reincarnation doesn?t exist? "

That's a logical fallacy along the lines of "Can you prove that Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny doesn't exist! Yeessh..! :shake: 


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Le_Canard]
    #2147537 - 11/30/03 08:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Lord o' Fungus: :thumbup:

And ToiletDuk: Fallacious or not, it's still valid. Besides, Santa DOES exist, I saw him at the mall last x-mas. Lotsa people witnessed it. Even sat on his lap.
I met the Easter Bunny sometime ago too...gave me chocolate eggs and stuff. Oh and there were numerous witnesses there too, so I have credibility. :wink:

 


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleLord_of_Fungus
The AlmightyLord & Master ofThe Universe

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Posts: 167
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147570 - 11/30/03 08:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

*nodding vehemently towards Skorpivomusterion.. and then brushing toilet duk off* Get away kid, your upsetting the elves.


--------------------


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OfflineFrog
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147583 - 11/30/03 08:37 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
I just had an epiphany related to the subject of the whole matter of what is described in LoF's post...

have any of you had like, yknow.."future flashbacks"? Sorta like Deja Vu, but a lil "more" than that? Like suddenly you feel like you've been there, you've already seen this, you actually "remember" this moment, even though it didn't happen up until then.

I've had several incidents like this...like small things that have no significance, I'll have this image in my head, just some random image...and like, years later.. BOOM! i LIVE that image! i see the whole "scene" right in front of me, like right there just as exactly i have pictured in my head years ago...like just standing there doing nothing really noteworthy of significance or whatever...
I've had this happen to me quite a few times...and i've talked to alot of other people about it, who also related....so this could indeed be another supporting factor of the whole premise which is quite thoroughly and articulately explained in LoF's post...
like maybe we're actually "remembering" what we had planned out?
And maybe psychics are people who remember faster than most people?
Hmmm...I'ma dwell on this epiphany s'more...




^Thats also just another one of my own "clues" that support my belief in reincarnation.
I know quite a few people who have had this type of experience...
You could do a world-wide survey of it with everybody, and you would get countless people reporting the exact same type of experience(s).
What does this lead to? Who can say? Nobody can say with absolute authority. But, I can come to my own conclusion, based on what I feel to be the most likely cause, which is Fate.
I believe in Fate. I'm a Fatalist. What I've described above, that not only me but so many others have experienced, supports Fate. You don't have to believe it if you dont want to, hell you can believe whatever you feel is best, be it a simple "glitch in the Matrix".
I believe, that our subconscious mind leaks memories from us planning out the lives that we incarnate into, hence the "future flashbacks" that so many people have at times...
Again, this is just one of my reasons for my choice in the belief, of an afterlife.
If you have a better theory explaining otherwise, please feel free to share, I'm open-minded to listen to whatever ideas you feel is better and nor will I judge you for your ideas.




Quote:

muhurgle said:
Even if your deja-vu experience was significant, I don't see how that relates to reincarnation or afterlife.




Okay, I'm gonna go real slow for you here...

Lets say you have a "daydream" or whatever...and you have a very clear vivid image of you doing some random thing, say, washing dishes on a sunny day.
Then you snap outta your day-dream state of mind as someone calls your name and then thats the end of that.

Then, say, 1 year later....
on a sunny afternoon...you decide to clean the house...and along doing so, do the dishes...you begin to wash the dishes...and alla the sudden, it hits you like a frieght train...you remember that exact moment...and yor mind races to make sense out of the whole situation, and if you're quick enough in your memory, you'll remember that you actually had that EXACT same "scene" daydreamed out in your head, a year ago. Everything was identical.

Now, on top of that, lets say you had SEVERAL similar experiences with you having this exact same type of incident, throughout your life.
And on top of that, you've talked to people about, and THEY TOO, relate to it and have experienced the same thing, and so on.

Now tell me, what would YOU, make of that? what conclusion would you come to as to what the reason behind the incident that not JUST you, but other people all over the world has experienced? And why would you come to that conclusion.

I already told you my opinion and conclusion on the matter in my other post.





God help you if this isnt like feeding you with a baby spoon




No offense, but:

1) I don't believe that dreams or daydreams coming true are "future flashbacks" from what we have already planned, when we lived in the past. I believe they are premonitions about what is going to take place in the future. As I posted earlier, after you initially posted this, I have dreams that come true. I remember when I had the dreams. One of my dreams recently came true. I had the dream when I was about 12 or 13, and I told my sisters about it when I woke up. Maybe for you, it's something different and so maybe we're comparing apples and oranges.

2) Are we going to get killed here for going on about "fate" again? See, I only believe in fate to the extent that you are pretty much headed toward a pretty well-set future unless you do something to change that future, using free will. So if I have a dream about something that is going to happen in the future, and the dream is based on how I am living my life at that moment, but I make changes in my present life, that dream may end up not coming true. So I don't think that having dreams or visions about your future supports "fate".

btw: swf at your "feeding you with a baby spoon", unless, of course, it was directed at me!!


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Lord_of_Fungus]
    #2147585 - 11/30/03 08:38 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_of_Fungus said:
*nodding vehemently towards Skorpivomusterion.. and then brushing toilet duk off* Get away kid, your upsetting the elves. 




Awww...but I wanted to sit on Santy's lap!! :frown: 


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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147590 - 11/30/03 08:39 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

:lol:

  Do you really believe that your going to "DIE">  :shake: Come on.  We got a real life athiest in the SandP. So just nothing, blackness, nothingness.  Maybe a hiccup and then lights out.  I thing that is truly depressing.  No, this "joke" of an existence, was created as a school, a learning place, a hell, so to speak.  We expereince heaven and hell, yin yang. Dualism.  After this dualism is experienced we move to the next stage. Some prefer a move backwards.  I plan on moving backwards the next time.  In the sense that I will be recycled in a "not so" technologically advanced country.  Some of us aren't what we seem.  However, there are places that one can get "stuck" in for a long time.

    What your talking about does happen.  That much is true in you "Feeling" the way you do about the Nothingness.  So I can't be so hard on your about your "feeling" what you do.  :thumbup:What happens to some, is that they didn't "get it right" or suicide.  When that happens you don't get to go back, but are sent to a "sleep" place.  In that place time stops, you could be there for 100 years earth time and not know a second went by.  The reason for that place is basically a prison cell for the soul until a new "situation" can be found for you to recycle into. 

  So, For you to feel so strongly about that "nothingness" shows you spent your last cycle in it.  That's why this life seems weird.  It's not one you planned.  It is one that was given to you that mostly fit the last one where something went wrong. I hope you don't get "stuck" in that "pergatory" this round.  All you have to do is make one realization.  This "joke" is on you.  After that it'll all fall into play.     


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InvisibleLord_of_Fungus
The AlmightyLord & Master ofThe Universe

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 167
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: medicinebag]
    #2147625 - 11/30/03 08:55 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I beleive it is termed limbo... but now that I think on it.. and this is truely the beauty of free will.. I change my mind.. You were absolutely right mixomatosis.. dude, your gonna die. Arrivederci, Kaaaput, fini, asta la no more vista baby. But could you hurry it along? someone coulda used that life you are crapping all over.


--------------------


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OfflineFrog
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Lord_of_Fungus]
    #2147658 - 11/30/03 09:11 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_of_Fungus said:
You were absolutely right mixomatosis.. dude, your gonna die. Arrivederci, Kaaaput, fini, asta la no more vista baby. But could you hurry it along? someone coulda used that life you are crapping all over.




SWF!!!


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147663 - 11/30/03 09:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

okay before I respond to your OTHER post, Froggy, what does SWF mean?
Single White Female?
wut?


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147664 - 11/30/03 09:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147668 - 11/30/03 09:14 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"But could you hurry it along? someone coulda used that life you are crapping all over."

How exactly is he crapping all over life?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleLord_of_Fungus
The AlmightyLord & Master ofThe Universe

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 167
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Positronius]
    #2147671 - 11/30/03 09:15 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

it wasn't meant to be poked, prodded, and dissected.. this is what is termed a joke class.. say it with me Pos.. Joooooke


--------------------


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Lord_of_Fungus]
    #2147681 - 11/30/03 09:19 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

oh,

ha-ha


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147698 - 11/30/03 09:26 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:

1) I don't believe that dreams or daydreams coming true are "future flashbacks" from what we have already planned, when we lived in the past. I believe they are premonitions about what is going to take place in the future. As I posted earlier, after you initially posted this, I have dreams that come true. I remember when I had the dreams. One of my dreams recently came true.

and you call your dreams COMING TRUE, mere premonitions of the future? simply hunches and anticipative feelings towards what lies ahead of you? When you dream up a very vivid and clear scene in your mind's eye...and then, say 2 years later, you enter that EXACT same scene, just as you had "envisioned" it before...your cup is on the left side, and your tv is in the corner, and your standing up in the exact same angle, and the beams of sunshine are shining on the wall..everything identical. You call that just a mere premonition???



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147718 - 11/30/03 09:31 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
okay before I respond to your OTHER post, Froggy, what does SWF mean?
Single White Female?
wut?




Let I apologize. I believed that "swf" was an acronym well-known and widely used.

Hence, let I elucidate: "Snot Went Flying"


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Frog]
    #2147722 - 11/30/03 09:33 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

ah, you foolish geese

Lord of fungus: Um, your text in blue.. what were you trying to say? It didn't make much sense as it was a little over-embellished to make you sound smart.

as for:

So, For you to feel so strongly about that "nothingness" shows you spent your last cycle in it. That's why this life seems weird. It's not one you planned. It is one that was given to you that mostly fit the last one where something went wrong.

please, dear God, go back through my posts and show me where I said that life seems "weird." What a strange habit you have of putting words into my mouth. You come up with some silly explanation about my past life and then back that up with how I feel weird about life.. but I don't feel weird at all about it.. What are you trying to do? And, look where you got the evidence of how I floated in purgatory before (or whatever you're saying): Right after a disclaimer that says

"I could explain this a bit more, but language would inhibit my transmission of information as I intend. "

Well geez.. I give you a warning that's there to tell you words can't express what I'm trying to say because you'll MISINTERPRET my information, and then you use that to explain.. I don't quite get it.. I'm a ball of karmic sludge floating in the void?

I beleive it is termed limbo... but now that I think on it.. and this is truely the beauty of free will.. I change my mind.. You were absolutely right mixomatosis.. dude, your gonna die. Arrivederci, Kaaaput, fini, asta la no more vista baby. But could you hurry it along? someone coulda used that life you are crapping all over.

Mmmm hmmm, what makes you think I'm crapping over my life? Another weird conclusion. I love life, it's kickass and exciting.. weird thing for you to say, but I guess by your definition I'm what.. ungrateful for life because I prefer my delusions over yours? Nice.. and, oh yeah, isn't wishing me dead against the rules in this forum where, in your words

"We are adults discussing philosophy"

See, this is confusing, because in your post where you used blue writing, you don't really.. I don't know.. SAY anything, other than I'm an idiot and you've had a near-death experience therefore you're right. Did you not read through this thread? It clears up a lot of the confusion and you could use a hand getting in the actual discussion going on here.






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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147726 - 11/30/03 09:35 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

oh yes.. medicinebag, one more thing... because I've believed in reincarnation for my whole life except for the past year or so, does that still mean that I come from the void or whatever?


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Anonymous

Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147731 - 11/30/03 09:36 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

i believe that after death, consciousness is as it was before conception.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147754 - 11/30/03 09:44 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

You seriously have not an IOTA of concept of what Lord of Fungus said?
I shouldn't be too surprised, I suppose. :smirk:

All you can do is attack the color of the font, and "over-embellished" words?

Would you like me to translate it to layman's terms for you, perhaps? It's okay to ask for help...you can always ask for your mommy if you're too embarrassed to admit you didn't have the capacity to understand advanced english. :wink: 


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147789 - 11/30/03 09:56 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

please do translate!


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2147793 - 11/30/03 09:57 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

oh, and let me please apologize for being such an amazingly STUPID fuck!


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2147795 - 11/30/03 09:57 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Lord of Fungus" didnt say anything worthwhile, and neither have you scorpio McCheese. Heres an idea, add something intelligent and worthwhile to the discussion or go masturbate your petty ego somewhere else, what do you think>?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: You silly afterlife-believing fools... [Re: Positronius]
    #2147816 - 11/30/03 10:04 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Thread is being closed....

You guys just don't get the no-flaming rule, do ya?

Attack ideas, not eachother.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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