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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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I believe this will be of assistance to some
    #1504432 - 04/29/03 02:40 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

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Edited by Enter (04/30/03 08:25 PM)


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: World Spirit]
    #1505109 - 04/29/03 06:04 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: World Spirit]
    #1505136 - 04/29/03 06:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

damn dude sup with all these major typos?! I can't even read this!

heh just kidding :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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Edited by Strumpling (04/29/03 06:15 PM)


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Invisiblebert
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: World Spirit]
    #1505157 - 04/29/03 06:13 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for slipping in the anti-semitism there. Very Christian of you.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: bert]
    #1505186 - 04/29/03 06:21 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: World Spirit]
    #1505229 - 04/29/03 06:32 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Well Enter, you highly respect other religions, but you still feel they're all going to burn in hell for all eternity, right?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: Strumpling]
    #1505245 - 04/29/03 06:38 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

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Invisiblebert
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: World Spirit]
    #1505265 - 04/29/03 06:43 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Because your 'assistance' involves this: 'He met Jesus during the time the Jews were attempting to have Jesus legally sentenced to crucifixion for claiming to be the only Messiah.' For a thread that is supposed to offer 'truth' about the use of psychedelics, you end up attacking Jews for no apparent reason.

Edit: Furthermore, there is a biological basis behind your 'Myth of Vomiting'. Just because you don't vomit doesn't make it psychosomatic. Many people of all backgrounds, sets, and settings experience vomiting whilst shrooming.


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Edited by bert (04/29/03 06:45 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: bert]
    #1505284 - 04/29/03 06:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Hey Enter I was just jumping in because you said you highly respect all these other religions yet your own beliefs send them straight to a burning horrifying inferno once they sadly pass away. That's respect?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: bert]
    #1505437 - 04/29/03 07:37 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

The Scriptures relate a historical situation concerning Jesus, the Jew, and the Sanhedrin (priests) of Judaism. The priestly class was threatened by the spiritual authority with which Jesus spoke, and Scriptures say repeatedly that they conspired to have him killed. Enter did not slip in anti-Semitism. The whole drama about Y'shua (Jesus) is about Jews. Jesus was a Jew, His companions were Jews, His accusers were Jews who were under occupation by the Roman Empire, and who alone were able to punish and execute. What is YOUR problem, Enter, or reading comprehension, or an unhealthy Jewish identity of your own? BTW, I am a Jewish Christian who happens to know Enter personally (sorry for any breach of anonymity Enter), and he is not anti-Semitic.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (04/29/03 09:08 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1505471 - 04/29/03 07:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I know he's not an anti-semite.... he just seems to have forgotten that respecting somebody involves not supporting their involuntary sentence to a blazing inferno where they are constantly tortured and maimed forever


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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OfflineMurex
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: World Spirit]
    #1505629 - 04/29/03 08:32 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe Trip Tips is the best place for this.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Invisiblebert
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1505672 - 04/29/03 08:43 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Well, thanks for clearing that up. I misinterpreted his intent. Yet I still fail to see why he brought that up in a post about assistance in the use of psychedelics. One thing I agree with Enter on, is trying to ignore the visual and audio hallucinations and trying to focus on your thoughts more.


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OfflineAmnesiac
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: bert]
    #1505738 - 04/29/03 09:05 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the great post enter, I agree with just about everything you said.

Often people use psychedelics for all the wrong reasons, particularly younger people. Sometimes their intent is just to get "fucked up". Every once in a while, there's nothing wrong with getting a little "fucked up", but I think that excess use of psychedelics like mushrooms for the purposes of recreation or reality escaping causes more harm than good. Hopefully abusers will learn this lesson at some point, but if not, too bad for them, they're missing the point!

About the religious aspects of this post... Strumpling, I think your first post was very appropriate... I often ask the same question to people who claim that they are Christians who also say "I respect all religions".

Enter, I don't know why you feel it is necessary to subscribe to a religion... a medium, a third party for purposes of connecting to spirit... I have to say, based on what you said in your post, you don't sound like a Christian to me. How, or why do you label yourself a Christian? To do so means you must subscribe to pre-formed rules... beliefs which are given to you and not arrived at through self-exploration.

Like Strumpling said, if you call yourself a Christian, then the rest of us will all be burning and crying and rotting until the end of time, simply because we choose not to subscribe. Christian/Catholic religions are the most vague and diverse of all. What I propose is that, since it is so vague and there are so many Christians who themselves disagree on the teachings of the bible and on purgatory issues... WHY bother to label yourself?

I have met a person who believes in reincarnation who calls himself a Christian... what the hell is that? Most Christians and Catholics seem to bend and shape the rules of the religion according to what is convenient or true to them. It absolutely boggles my mind that so many different people with such varying contradictory beliefs claim to belong to the same religion.

Maybe you could explain this to me, I know it's off topic, but it seems to be where this discussion is going... thanks!


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Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: Strumpling]
    #1505807 - 04/29/03 09:35 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

You assume wrongly. There is no mention of a "blazing inferno" in the New Testament writings. There is a reference a 'lake of fire' into which the devil will be thrown in Revelations 20:10, but Revelations is one of many pieces of Apocalyptic literature that was accepted into the NT. It uses the language of mythos to depict horribly negative Realms of Existence - commonly called Hell in Christianity, but also in Buddhism and Hinduism.

The author known as Matthew is the Gospel writer who is soley responsible for the hellfire and brimstone references: Mt. 3:12, 5:22, 18:8, 25:41. There are references to a place called "Gehenna," where garbage was burned near Jerusalem, and its stinking, vermin-infested, ever-smoldering description is utilized to also depict a disgusting place - not literally, but alluding to the metaphysical Reality of Hells. The Old Testament spoke of "Sheol," a place of shadowy things, unarticulated for the most part and not unlike vague references to Greek Hades - the Underworld.

Enter is not responsible for the very distinct possibility of metaphysical Hell, neither is it the mere fabrication of the world religions. Like other mystical journeys, from Dante's 'Divine Comedy' to the Tibetan Buddhist Hell Realms, which derived both from Hindu and Chinese sources (e.g., the Realm of Hungry Ghosts), they have been experienced to one degree or another by real people. I knew a kid who was in a coma for over a year, could hear everything, but couldn't even blink his eyes. He was not alone in this 'place' where he 'screamed' with all his mind - there were 'other kinds' of beings laughing at him. He recovered, swore he had been in Hell, and became born-again. Who am I to know better than he?

It is a minority of peoples throughout history who have NOT believed in spiritual (non-physical) Realms of Existence. We are all manifestations of consciousness, and the evil among us are manifestations of that which we call Hell. We don't 'go' anywhere, as these are not physical places - but places they be.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblebert
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1505827 - 04/29/03 09:41 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I personally don't believe in an afterlife or other spiritual realms of existence.
You are side-stepping the issue, most Christians believe that non-Christians will go to hell after death. Am I going to hell because I don't believe in God even though I live a good life, am kind to others, am charitable to the poor, etc.?


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1505856 - 04/29/03 09:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

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OfflineDogomush
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1505872 - 04/29/03 09:54 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

seems like a lot of silly christian bashing going on here. I found it interesting that he would plug in the race of the people persecuting Jesus, cause it's unnecessary and doesn't add anything to what he's saying, but what's going on here? I'm guessing you guys have some kind of history of firey debate, and so you're growling at eachother? Well, anyway...

You wrote a lot Enter! I have a few disagreements. You take the "set and setting" concept and then add a bunch of dogma about how one's set and setting should be.

The aim of psychedelics is not hallucinations or simply humorous experiences but INSIGHT, SPIRIT, IDENTITY, TRUTH, FOCUS, PROGRESS, ENLIGHTENMENT, PEACE, LONGEVITY, etc. These are in fact fruits of the Spirit of God, some of which a certain apostle once wrote about.

Hahaha why don't cha fuck off :smile: I'm so tired of people preaching "correct" reasons for doing drugs. You can't say any experience is worth less than another. If hallucinations and "simple humorous experiences" aren't the fruits of the Spirit of God then sounds like the God tree could use a little genetic engineering. "THOU SHALT NOT LAUGH ONLY SIT IN MEDITATIVE POSTURE AND EXPERIENCE MY GLORY" hahah fuck off God, you bitch-whore skank fuck dick suck rancid shit eating fart knocking butt-ass poo-shit (I'm assuming the be-nice policy doesn't apply to the lord of the universe).

If you can't eat Bo0merZ, go to the shopping mall, and have a profound learning experience while trying to order fast food from Edo Japan, then it sounds like you gotta..... WAKE UP!!!

So why don't you use wording like this "My aim of psychedelic use"

I don't experience wierd visual transformations unless I'm blocking out reality or my imagination is really kicking in.

er... "blocking out reality" means nothing. What are you trying to say? Whatever it is, I don't understand. Visuals happen when I concentrate on the experience, sit still, and don't run around checking out insects.

Set and setting is all you need to know. Use that principle to provide yourself with whatever experience you want. There are no rules for psychedelic use unless you think you need some to avoid negative experiences and harming others. Set your own boundaries; check it out for yourself.

It's cool that you sat down and fleshed out your ideas for yourself, but obviously you're going to get a lot of criticism and disagreements when you sit down and write a lengthy bunch of paragraphs telling people what the point of mushrooms are and how exactly to do them. 


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1505879 - 04/29/03 09:57 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps you should read a decent book on the history of Christianity. As a matter of historical fact, it wasn't until the Council of Chalcedon around 530 A.D. that the doctrine of transmigration of souls ("reincarnation") was eliminated from Christianity. The doctrine (also called Metempsychosis) was deemed as permitting too much time for salvation to occur. People would be lax in their striving for sanctification (holiness).

Christian theology is anything but vague. Catholic and Protestant theologies in the West have similarities and differences from one another, large and small. The Eastern Orthodox Church is everywhere as large, and is distinctively different from Western Christendom in huge ways. Being a Christian is not a matter of assuming a label. The label describes the Way we understand God, the Way we pray (contemplative, petitionary, intercesory and thanksgiving), the nature of faith, the process of sanctification (growth in holiness), and what Enlightenment (Illumination) and Salvation means. These processes are not mere "self-explorations," they are ancient, sacred traditions that are vehicles for transcendence of the human condition. They derive from thousands of holy men and women spanning two millennia. I am NOT talking about the institutions that developed, but the saints that developed, despite the institutions. The self-exploration has been done and we can learn from all of them how right on target, or how off-base our own perceptions and experiences are. No one is their own Absolute frame of reference in sacred matters.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: World Spirit]
    #1505913 - 04/29/03 10:11 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Consider that the psychedelic can provide you with a bit of a leap in terms of spiritual progress if one's ears are open (figuratively speaking - I don't hear voices)
I personally don't believe magic mushrooms can make you a more spiritual person, but if you actually talk to the mushroom, and I mean literally out loud or just think it in your mind, perhaps you might hear some voices. Next time you trip on 5 dried grams, say "hello? Are you there?" and see/hear what happens  :smirk:

Never take more than is comfortable to injest in the first place
I say ingest a little more than what you feel comfortable with.  Why beat around the bush? If people follow your advice about setting, getting in the right state of mind, etc, I don't see why they shoudn't take a little higher doses than they are comfortable with.

"You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."
Anyone who claims they know THE TRUTH is probably lying. I'd be highly suspicious of them.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: bert]
    #1505940 - 04/29/03 10:21 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Personally, I don't much care what you believe dogmatically, but if Compassion is not at the 'gyroscope' of your personality, then you are just another human mammal living out an animal existence on the planet. That means that my trust in you is going to be minimal, because I do not place my faith in the humanity of others unless Compassion is held to be their deepest, most profoundly human quality. A utilitarian niceness just isn't strong enough or true enough because it does not flow from Transcendental Reality, and it doesn't matter to me if one acknowledges "Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful," or 'Karuna' of Tibetan Buddhism, or "God is love" of Christianity, or the Compassion of Avalokitsvara in India or the Chinese name, Kwan Yin.

I don't know "most Christians," and neither do you. What you have in mind is a popular and heretical misconception called Fundamentalism. It is a literal and concrete "understanding" of Scriptural writings - specific writings - used with a specific agenda for frightening and controlling people. This is not True Christianity, neither is is the Spirit of Christ which is forgiveness, mercy and love. Everyone does not want mercy and love however, and those who are filled with the wrath and hatred of Hell will not need to 'go to Hell,' since Hell lives within them here and now. The death of their bodies may well mean a particularly horrible intensity of their evil nature, usually veiled by this world and the senses, just as the world veils the beauty and glory of God from those who love God in this life.

As to YOUR eternal condition, only God Knows for sure. I certainly have no desire to pass judgement on you - that is not the role for a true Christian, it is for God alone. I will say this much - I do not hang with atheists. It is pointless, and friendship could only be of the most superficial type, and therfore disappointing from the start. So much of my life is focused on Transcendence, on contemplation of the Eternal - why would I hang around with someone focused only on externals?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1505987 - 04/29/03 10:39 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I will say this much - I do not hang with atheists. It is pointless, and friendship could only be of the most superficial type, and therfore disappointing from the start
right...so you only hang with people who cannot argue against your belief systems gotcha  :wink: and I see you also like to superficially generalize individuals who don't share your view of this world, what's the first thing you say when you meet a new person, are you an atheist? I don't consider myself an atheist, but after reading this last part of your post I realized that your whole skit about Compassion was just a big turd coming out of your mouth and falling into my drink. 


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Invisiblebert
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1506008 - 04/29/03 10:47 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I have love for every one of my fellow man. I wouldn't label myself as an atheist, but rather an agnostic. I don't believe in God, but I don't claim that there is no possibility of a God. If there were one, I think it would be far beyond the power of the human mind to comprehend it anyways. At my current state of existence, I choose not to believe in God because:
1.) I'm only 19 years old. I have plenty to experience before jumping to any one belief and limiting my understanding of the universe.
2.) If there were a God, I might be willing to accept a higher force but certainly not a sentient God that passes judgment on humanity. Why not judge animals, is my dog going to hell for killing a cat?
3.) The fact that you 'won't hang with atheists' shows that you have limited yourself in some way, and to me this is an unhealthy byproduct of religion and shows that you have not mastered true compassion.


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Anonymous

Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1506168 - 04/30/03 12:03 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you Markos for your kind and thoughtful comments.  You were the one responsible for bringing the necessary peace to this thread and allowing it to remain open.

1.  I keep a close eye on personalizing.

2.  This isn't a forum for telling people they are going to hell.

Remarks in the second category will cause any discussion to be immediately closed.

Thanks again. :smile: 


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: ]
    #1506197 - 04/30/03 12:15 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: I believe this will be of assistance to some [Re: World Spirit]
    #1506256 - 04/30/03 12:40 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

For the sake of clarification to our respected Administrators, could you please elaborate on your insinuations, Mr. Mushrooms?
Nothing was personalized. However, one's utter hatred for me appears more than obvious to the on-looker, not only to myself. 




Thanks Enter.

Thread locked and you have been reported to the Administration.  Swami received a warning about being banned for baiting the spiritually inclined but decided to take a 30 day voluntary leave of absence.  And now you have received a public warning from me as well.  One more false move and you will receive a temporary ban.

I suggest you head on down to the Website Suggestion forum and read the new rules on banning.

Have a great day. :smile: 


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