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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22151687 - 08/27/15 02:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yet there are millions and millions of people who testify to have had direct contact with non-physical entities from all over the world and from virtually every culture that has ever been on this planet going back thousands of years.

Quite a claim to say they're all wrong but if you want to go with it, by all means, do it.




There are millions of stories and zero evidence.

Do you know that there were some 50,000 witness to the Phoenix Lights UFO flap and that ALL OF THEM got it wrong? It was military flares and not alien spaceships.

Now your homework assignment is to look up the argumentum ad populum and understand why it is a logical fallacy.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #22151695 - 08/27/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
You reincarnate and start another life, and your karma follows you and dictates how good or bad your next life will be




Flat declarations carry no weight.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #22151731 - 08/27/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

There are millions of stories and zero evidence.

Do you know that there were some 50,000 witness to the Phoenix Lights UFO flap and that ALL OF THEM got it wrong? It was military flares and not alien spaceships.

Now your homework assignment is to look up the argumentum ad populum and understand why it is a logical fallacy.




Robert Monroe's experiments proved well beyond the shadow of a doubt that consciousness is quite able to detach from the physical body and explore the world(s) alone or with others. 

The explanation to the Phoenix lights was ludicrous and an obvious effort to squelch the story.  Almost as silly as "weather balloons" as the explanation for UFO crashes.  LMAO! 

There have been people that recall very specific details about past lives that have proven to be true for which there is absolutely no possible way they could have been aware of that level of detail.  There is a ton of evidence out there.  The CIA has funded remote viewing and out of body travel labs for decades and continues to do it and so do the Russians. 

If you think we'll some day catch a ghost in a bottle and bring it into a lab, you're not likely to get the proof you want.


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"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22151742 - 08/27/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

In their belief system, their esoteric meditation techniques allow them to detach their consciousness from physical reality and travel to non-physical reality for a variety of purposes.  They have explored these regions of non physical reality in great detail and mapped it out.




This is called fiction and imagination. Not even one single piece of verifiable data has been retrieved from these other realms. Perhaps you will share with us how you KNOW these things to be true.

Quote:

I totally get it that modern science believes that's all brain chemistry and that's great but that's a theory that hasn't been proven.  What has been proven is that there are extraordinarily organized and complex "worlds" that consciousness can tune into and there's not a person on the planet that con explain why these realms are so incredibly detailed, organized and just there waiting to be experienced.  There are even people that are now dreaming themselves into the same dream scenarios and exploring together those same locales in real time.




No, you don't totally get it. Science is a methodology and NOT a belief system.

Now your homework assignment is to look up and understand the Null Hypothesis.

Now guess how many DMT travelers saw "machine elves" before McKenna? If you guessed zero then we are making some real progress. This is called cultural coloring.


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22151747 - 08/27/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Just like how science can't prove we have a soul but we all collectively agree we have one


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22151767 - 08/27/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

No, you don't totally get it. Science is a methodology and NOT a belief system.






Explain then why 99.999% of the people on this planet that believe in the big bang theory don't even understand 1% of the math that is used to explain the theory? 

Even in the scientific community, less than 1% of all scientists that are strongly convinced the big bang theory is correct understand the math needed to truly represent that theory.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22151772 - 08/27/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Robert Monroe's experiments proved well beyond the shadow of a doubt that consciousness is quite able to detach from the physical body and explore the world(s) alone or with others. 



And that is why extreme doubt remains? How many more unsubstantiated claims are you going to make?

Quote:

The explanation to the Phoenix lights was ludicrous and an obvious effort to squelch the story.



The believers' own videos were analyzed and the objects shown were NOT overhead but 50 miles away as they drifted below the mountains EXACTLY where the military base was located.

Do you swallow every single magical story whole without examination?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22151811 - 08/27/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

No, you don't totally get it. Science is a methodology and NOT a belief system.






Explain then why 99.999% of the people on this planet that believe in the big bang theory don't even understand 1% of the math that is used to explain the theory? 

Even in the scientific community, less than 1% of all scientists that are strongly convinced the big bang theory is correct understand the math needed to truly represent that theory.




It is amazing how almost all True Believers use the same fallacious tactics. Why are we now shifting topics talking about the Big Bang and why am I required to answer?


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (08/27/15 07:32 PM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #22151813 - 08/27/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

The believers' own videos were analyzed and the objects shown were NOT overhead but 50 miles away as they drifted below the mountains EXACTLY where the military base was located.

Do you swallow every single magical story whole without examination?




I'll just agree to disagree with you. Your mind is made up and that's fine.  If, in your belief system it's lights off when we die and that's it, then I respect that.  A lot of people agree with you.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22151819 - 08/27/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

See those two polar opposites from which you guys are coming?

My belief sits smack bang in the middle of those.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22151849 - 08/27/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Your mind is made up and that's fine.




I did ACTUAL research on TPL. No belief system required.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22151865 - 08/27/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The midway point between truth and fiction is fiction. ~ Swami


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22151905 - 08/27/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You shouldn't automatically dismiss something just because we don't yet have the tools to prove it


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #22152052 - 08/27/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Huh? So instead we glom onto the unproven because it sounds cool!


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22152414 - 08/27/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:

It is amazing how almost all True Believers use the same fallacious tactics. Why are we know shifting topics talking about the Big Bang and why am I required to answer?




The mass beliefs that follow scientific theories, claims or declarations work nearly the exact same way as
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Huh? So instead we glom onto the unproven because it sounds cool!




The overwhelming number of people that believe in the core big macro theories of science like the Big Bang, String Theory, Life from Lifeless matter, etc. have no understanding at all of the math/physics/theories behind those theories.

They believe it because it's cool to believe it and to belong in the "smart" club.  It's the same thing yet you can't see it.

I'm open to explanations coming from both fields.  Science is great ... so is metaphysics ... so is shamanism ...

There are brilliant people in all of these disciplines


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22152464 - 08/27/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Your mind is made up and that's fine.




I did ACTUAL research on TPL. No belief system required.




I've met three people that actually saw it as I've done a lot of work in Phoenix over the years. All three agreed the official explanation you reference is completely ludicrous.  One of them saw a gigantic triangular craft that was flying low over the foothills not far from where she lived that coincides with a number of reports.  Doesn't mean it's aliens, but it surely wasn't some kind of avionic flares.

But hey, whatever the military tells us MUST be true, right???  LOL


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca] * 1
    #22152506 - 08/27/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm so glad not everyone goes off of the research we already have. We'd ultimately go nowhere in life if this was our foundational belief for everything. "It can't be proven so therefore it is stupid and the only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because it sounds cool."
Nice logic.
However, I'm asking for personal opinions :pipesmoke: No need to flame.


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Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: Kush_Zombie] * 1
    #22152691 - 08/27/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It's also of note to consider the thousands and thousands that have had near death experiences.  They shed light on what might be beyond the veil.

Science likes to set up a bunker and say ... OK, we think it's just brain chemistry firing off in the final throes of life so prove us wrong.  And that's fine.  But there is no explanation whatsoever for why these life changing spiritual experiences are somehow just mysteriously wrapped in the near death experience.  If there is nothing after death, then what's the point of the brain setting up this elaborate illusion?  If it's just lights out when we die, why would the brain care about easing us into the death experience?  Death itself is often very painful so the body/brain shows little or no capability to dull the pain or ease the suffering but when it comes to the point when our consciousness is about to shut off, the brain magically gives us this incredible experience of meeting magical entities, etc. 

Why isn't the brain doing this every single night if the experience is so beneficial?

If you start out wanting to prove everything is just a chemical reaction in the brain, then that is surely what you're going to find.  Clearly, however, when disciplined people are able to change their brain waves with will alone, some very interesting things start to happen.  And the people that are actually wiling their brain waves to change will, which is very hard to do, nearly always interpret their experiences as far beyond random brain chemistry reactions.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKush_Zombie
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22152720 - 08/27/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
It's also of note to consider the thousands and thousands that have had near death experiences.  They shed light on what might be beyond the veil.

Science likes to set up a bunker and say ... OK, we think it's just brain chemistry firing off in the final throes of life so prove us wrong.  And that's fine.  But there is no explanation whatsoever for why these life changing spiritual experiences are somehow just mysteriously wrapped in the near death experience.  If there is nothing after death, then what's the point of the brain setting up this elaborate illusion?  If it's just lights out when we die, why would the brain care about easing us into the death experience?  Death itself is often very painful so the body/brain shows little or no capability to dull the pain or ease the suffering but when it comes to the point when our consciousness is about to shut off, the brain magically gives us this incredible experience of meeting magical entities, etc. 

Why isn't the brain doing this every single night if the experience is so beneficial?

If you start out wanting to prove everything is just a chemical reaction in the brain, then that is surely what you're going to find.  Clearly, however, when disciplined people are able to change their brain waves with will alone, some very interesting things start to happen.  And the people that are actually wiling their brain waves to change will, which is very hard to do, nearly always interpret their experiences as far beyond random brain chemistry reactions.



Well said.


--------------------
How to get started in bulk:
Presto 23-Quart Pressure Cooker
BOD's Simple as FUCK Still Air Box
PastyWhyte's Easy Agar Tek
Munchauzen's Cultivation Video Series
How EvilMushroom666 Prepares His Grains (I use jars with Synthetic Filter Discs)
What is G2G? (Grain-to-Grain)
Damion5050's Coir Tek (I use 5.5 - 6 quarts of water instead of 4. Also ignore step 13 and ignore the monotub completely. The only purpose of this tek is to show you how to make a simple substrate. I also add gypsum to it but not necessary)
Spitball's Monotub Tek (A liner isn't necessary but is useful)
Use 6500k lights throughout the whole process. When you wake up, turn the light on. When you go to sleep turn the light off. It's as simple as that.


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Offlinelisanblakeretailsh
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22152733 - 08/27/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

~


Edited by Shroomism (08/27/15 05:44 PM)


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