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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
The Afterlife
    #4117383 - 05/01/05 03:49 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I have a serious question for those who believe in an Afterlife, be it Universal Consciousness, Heaven, or some other flavor.

Why is it that people who profess complete faith in The Afterlife often sob uncontrollably when a loved one dies (the Pope's death, for example)?

Is death to these people not much like a temporary separation which were it to happen in the real world (like a long trip abroad) call only for a little sadness? I mean, for most people, if a loved one goes on a very long vacation, it may be cause for some sadness, but crying hysterically?

Or is it that these people, despite their proclamations of complete faith, feel deep down that there really is no afterlife though they would never admit it openly?  :confused:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Diploid]
    #4117400 - 05/01/05 03:56 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Emotion. It's possible to feel pain about even temporary loss of a loved one. Life isn't so short that the prospect of spending the rest of it without someone you need doesn't cause pain.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Afterlife [Re: trendal]
    #4117442 - 05/01/05 04:12 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Emotion. It's possible to feel pain about even temporary loss of a loved one. Life isn't so short that the prospect of spending the rest of it without someone you need doesn't cause pain.

Well, my point goes to the magnitude of the pain.

Someone who would maybe cry a little and be blue for a while when their loved one moves to Africa without plans to return will cry hysterically if they hear their loved one in Africa, who they presumably would never have seen again anyway, dies in an accident.

This despite their claim of 100% faith in their flavor of afterlife.

I like your new avatar, BTW.  :tongue2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Diploid]
    #4117495 - 05/01/05 04:37 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
#1)  Someone who would maybe cry a little and be blue for a while when their loved one moves to Africa without plans to return will cry hysterically if they hear their loved one in Africa, who they presumably would never have seen again anyway, dies in an accident.
.
#2)  This despite their claim of 100% faith in their flavor of afterlife.



.
#1)  Because they know that they are still here to interact with, even if only on the phone....  Makes one feel like they are less alone having a life line of family - maybe somewhat more comforting/soothing to know that you are not the only one left of your family - for some this is already a reality anyways....    Perhaps it is simply being more connected to your root family spiritually....(?)    :heartpump:
.
.
#2)  Again, prolly~ connectedness....  And perhaps some people fear death, and mask it's fear to others....?    It still can, and or, does hurt when someone close to you dies - at least at moments, even years later when you remember out of the blue....    Then you feel relief as you get moving on in life, and start to remember more about the good aspects of their lives that you got to share with them....  That is one of the coolest things at a funeral is when people share their funny/cool stories of memory about the person....    :heartpump:
.
.
.
.
Have ya~ ever noticed in your life....    Everyone except YOU seems to die, but YOU keep living....  :wink:


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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Offlineegghead1
Nakedly Open

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Diploid]
    #4117519 - 05/01/05 04:42 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I have a serious question for those who believe in an Afterlife, be it Universal Consciousness, Heaven, or some other flavor.

Why is it that people who profess complete faith in The Afterlife often sob uncontrollably when a loved one dies (the Pope's death, for example)?

Is death to these people not much like a temporary separation which were it to happen in the real world (like a long trip abroad) call only for a little sadness? I mean, for most people, if a loved one goes on a very long vacation, it may be cause for some sadness, but crying hysterically?

Or is it that these people, despite their proclamations of complete faith, feel deep down that there really is no afterlife though they would never admit it openly?  :confused:




Its quite simple really. Attachment runs a hell of a lot deeper than faith. :smirk:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisibleHelp on the Way
Slipknot420

Registered: 08/13/00
Posts: 2,893
Loc: Another World
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Diploid]
    #4117520 - 05/01/05 04:43 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

cause life is hard ... and to know you'll have to go through the rest of YOUR life here without ever seeing that person on earth again is a hard thought

i dunno wtf the deal is with people crying over the pope though...


--------------------
:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Help on the Way]
    #4117565 - 05/01/05 04:50 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Crying over the pope = :drama:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Diploid]
    #4117674 - 05/01/05 05:30 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I believe in the afterlife....

I call it death... because... it's after life. Is that what you meant? :tongue:

Or what happens afterwards; like decomposition and becoming "one" with a bunch of maggots, worms, et etal?

I have faith that both of those will happen to me. As I've directly observed decaying organic matter... anything else though :shrug:.

I second egghead1's comment.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117679 - 05/01/05 05:36 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Well, I believe in the afterlife....

I call it death... because... it's after life. Is that what you meant? :tongue:

Or what happens afterwards; like decomposition and becoming "one" with a bunch of maggots, worms, et etal?

I have faith that both of those will happen to me. As I've directly observed decaying organic matter... anything else though :shrug:.

I second egghead1's comment.




You must be under some illusion that 'you' are your body, if you really think that its "YOU" that will decompose and be eaten by maggots rather than your previously inhabitted rotting corpse. I have faith that you and i are mucyh more than just decaying matter. What happens to the mind after the body dies is completely open to speculation.  :wink: :crazy:

I always laugh when i watch TV programs when people are stroking, hugging and crying over a corpse, still associating it with whomever has passed away. Its amazing that people get so hung up on this hunk of flesh, and confuse it with the actual person. When i leave my body, im not fussed what anyone does to it becuase im not living in it anymore, it is lifeless, that a fact of reality, they can cook it up for dinner for all i care.  :crazy2:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Afterlife [Re: egghead1]
    #4117686 - 05/01/05 05:39 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I described what happens with my consciousness before... I related it to AI and computer hardrives.

You must be under some illusion that similar constraints placed on reality, and mechanisms of our creation aren't applicable to humans... One we can prove, the other we can't. Is it certain that we won't go to a greater form of consciousness and blah blah blah blah? No, I'm making observations based on reality, not my wishes that play into my ideals.

P.S.
One life is enough for me, I'm more then content with it, If I get a bonus round... :thumbup: I'll play it. Just being skeptical of it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,029
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Diploid]
    #4117689 - 05/01/05 05:43 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Its more in one sence or another about a sence of loss, being that you cant be able to hold and hug and talk to that person as long as you are living that makes a person sob and weep and mourn a losss. I still do it to this day every time i hear the phish song Waste. A person left a hand print on my heart, and to know it was the song he was to be married to and to know I wont see his spaced out sunglasses hiding eyes makes me cry any time i hear it.


--------------------




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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117691 - 05/01/05 05:43 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I call it death... because... it's after life. Is that what you meant?

No, I mean the metaphysical persistence of your consciousness after your body dies.

Like I am on all other metaphysical issues, I am neutral on this subject pending evidence one way or another. That neutrality takes the form of lack of belief in an Afterlife.

This is different than disbelief.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (05/01/05 05:49 AM)


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117693 - 05/01/05 05:44 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The reality is that when your body dies it becomes "Lifeless", thats a scientific fact. What happens to "YOU" afterwards remains completely open to speculation. Im not making any kind of assumptions or expectations here, i just want to be fully concious when whatever happens happens.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Afterlife [Re: egghead1]
    #4117698 - 05/01/05 05:47 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i just want to be fully concious when whatever happens happens.
hrmmm?


If I have the choice, I'm going out as inebriated as possible. Consciousness might not be an option. :smile:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlineegghead1
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117702 - 05/01/05 05:50 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
i just want to be fully concious when whatever happens happens.
hrmmm?


If I have the choice, I'm going out as inebriated as possible. Consciousness might not be an option. :smile:




Thats true,  :thumbup: it might not be an option, but im gonna try to recognise and be concious of my death when it happnes anyways, if i go completely unconcious, then so be it. :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Diploid]
    #4117704 - 05/01/05 05:53 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlineslaphappy
Its just me
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117859 - 05/01/05 08:13 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

People cry whe people die,
because they miss them so god damn much!!

"Oh no he/she died, and I'll never be able to be with this person again." <--- Thats the issue.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Afterlife [Re: slaphappy]
    #4117866 - 05/01/05 08:23 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"Oh no he/she died, and I'll never be able to be with this person again."

But when someone moves away, say to do anthropology work in Africa away from telephones, such that they'll probably never see or speak to them again for many decades, there's no crying involved (or very little). Later, if that person dies, there's a lot of crying even though nothing effectively changed.

So do the faithful believe they'll see the dead person in the Afterlife or not? If they have faith, why all the crying? I'd be jumping for joy that my loved one finally transcended this crappy physical existence.

Same goes for the Pope. Why all the hysterics if you're going to see him again soon?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117867 - 05/01/05 08:24 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That thread was about what happens when you die. This one's more about why people of faith feel more sad when someone dies than they do when someone goes away and out of touch for a long time.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineegghead1
Nakedly Open

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 931
Loc: The Womb of Love
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The Afterlife [Re: Diploid]
    #4117869 - 05/01/05 08:25 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

As i said before

"Its quite simple really. Attachment runs a hell of a lot deeper than faith."


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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