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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2212090 -

So do you deny the fact that those near the top have the potential to do more harm than those who aren't?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: silversoul7]
    #2212099 -

That's not what I said.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2212104 -

That's why I asked. You said it's not important, and didn't address my stated reason for why it is important.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: silversoul7]
    #2212114 -

Read my post again.

I said it's not THAT important, that is not the same as saying it's not important.

And I most certainly did address your comment. You said: It's not just fun. It's important. Those near the top are in a position to do the most damage.

I responded: Not that important at all. Those near the top made it. Those who aren't at the top did not. So instead of doing what it takes to get to the top, they slam those who have.

In even simpler terms, you have a reason you think those at the top get slammed (they deserve it for the potential of what they may do), and I have a reason (they have made it, others have not, in other words.... jealousy)

Edited for spelling.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (12/31/03 05:07 PM)

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: silversoul7]
    #2213040 -

Quote:
silversoul7 said:
A lot of you have complained that welfare and other social programs are basically the same as theft.  I was just wondering:  Would you favor such programs if the money for them could be obtained without initiation of force?  Why or why not?



not alot of us..just a few neocon feces-turds  :lol: that make alot of noise..and dont consider walmartism, corporate welfare, invading iraq to to steal their oil..etc..etc..as being theft too...

EDIT:  add emoticon.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (01/01/04 01:52 PM)

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2213098 -

I'm curious.... do you actually read the posts here or are you simply satisfied to toss out hackneyed phrases?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2213105 -

..typical moronic response..anyway..i was simply trying to address the first sentance of the original post..in that ppl who complain about social programs as "theft" are often ignorant of other forms of "theft"...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2213118 -

"neocon feces-turds"?

That remark and others plus your avatar make you seem like a very angry and unhappy woman. I really hope that isn't true Anna. It is obvious you are highly intelligent and the world offers us so many choices that it isn't hard to be happier than you seem to be.

Not that I am a bastion of peace and good will.

I struggle with SS7's conundrum. To me it seems like a violation of justice to deny your fellow man even the necessary sustenance to survive if he cannot provide it for himself.

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: silversoul7]
    #2213122 -

silversoul7 said:
A lot of you have complained that welfare and other social programs are basically the same as theft. I was just wondering: Would you favor such programs if the money for them could be obtained without initiation of force? Why or why not?


I think I would favor those programs more if they didn't include the initiation of force. But I am not sure that even the initiation of force makes those programs unethical.

If a person is starving and a group of people decide that that person should be fed from a common pot of taxation there may be nothing wrong with it.

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: ]
    #2213184 -

well..i think we should all be angry and unhappy..at these arrogant..self-righteous..and closed-minded individuals..who are totally dismissive to any other POV than their own..and are unwilling to even discuss it further than :lol: paired with some irrelevant insult...and if what i just said does not accurately reflect their attitude..then maybe it is simply beyond their mental capacity to produce a counter-argument..in which case i offer an apology :razz:...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: ]
    #2213230 -

Quote:
If a person is starving and a group of people decide that that person should be fed from a common pot of taxation there may be nothing wrong with it.



Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2213233 -

No, the ones we should be dismissive of are those who'd gladly toss the constitution aside to further their desires all the while spouting assinine phrases that sounded stupid even in the 60's.

I don't dismiss your point of view out of hand. I do it based on the constitution.

That added to the no flame rule and you get .....  :lol:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/01/04 03:18 PM)

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2213247 -

well..i think we should all be angry and unhappy..at these arrogant..self-righteous..and closed-minded individuals..who are totally dismissive to any other POV than their own...

to whom are you referring?

when i first started posting here, i was quite the socialist. if you look back far enough, you can find me taking it up with pinksharkmark and others in support of welfare programs. i hold the positions i do today because in my time here, neither i, nor anyone else, has been able to adequately defend the socialist practice of employing coercion against a peaceful person. i know i've tried at times. i've started threads welcoming others to make an attempt... not once has anything come of it.

i hope you don't consider me among the "arrogant..self-righteous..and closed-minded individuals..who are totally dismissive to any other POV than their own..." and i don't think its fair to brand others here as that on the grounds that they take issue with initiating force.

what ideas exactly are people here "closed-minded" to? what arguments can you make in favor of initiating force which you think are totally dismissed by the closed-minded folks among us? i'll make a new thread for you. please make a valid argument in support of initiating force, show us how and why it is valid, and provide some specifics as to how you think a government should function.... i assure you that though there will be those who disagree with you, the only closed-mindedness exhibited will most likely be your own.

/end self-rightous, arrogant, closed-minded rant.  :smirk:

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: ]
    #2213248 -

:thumbup:


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2213260 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
If a person is starving and a group of people decide that that person should be fed from a common pot of taxation there may be nothing wrong with it.



Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


The constitution is a document of law, not of morality.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2213270 -

at these arrogant..self-righteous..and closed-minded individuals..who are totally dismissive to any other POV than their own..and are unwilling to even discuss it further than  paired with some irrelevant insult

Amen Anna.. :thumbup:

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: silversoul7]
    #2213272 -

So if it's morality you seek, how can you possibly justify taking money I have earned, by threat of jail time, to give to those who have not earned the money in any way?

I do the moral thing on my own. I donate and I help those I know. That is the moral thing to do.

The government shaking me down and stealing from me, is not moral.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2213273 -

Have children earned the money to pay for an education?

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: Xlea321]
    #2213275 -

Nope. Let their parents pay for it.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Hypothetical Question for Conservatives [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2213279 -

So do poor children not deserve a decent education simply because their parents can't afford it?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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