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Offlinemoonrawk
newbie

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 44
Loc: USA
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Conservatives who trip
    #376302 - 08/22/01 11:47 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

How many Conservatives are out there? Just curious.. drug based forums tend to be inundated with mindless liberals and other left-wing oddities.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


--------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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InvisibleLenore
enthusiast
Registered: 01/31/00
Posts: 366
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #376699 - 08/22/01 10:28 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

wow your a conservative?
i could hardly tell from your views
and i almost didn't notice the little red and blue elephant

I look forward to your criticism, but name calling? as much as i detest partisan euphemisms such as leftist, liberals, consevatives greens bla bla, oh nevermind



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Offlinecapncracker
Stranger
Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 12
Loc: pa
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #376730 - 08/22/01 11:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

look around, read the old posts, innvertigo and railgun seem to subscribe to facist ideology, although they do bicker a lot. even though you seem to be another mindless-peniswaving-name caller, i think its good to havce multiple viewpoints, even if you are a doodie headed stink bag righty.

goddam white kids


--------------------
goddam white kids


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Invisiblesuperpimp
The boss of thefamily

Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 8,706
Loc: Philadelphia/NYC
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: capncracker]
    #376942 - 08/23/01 09:04 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The thing I love most about the Shroomery is being able to have high minded, politically charged discussions, where we can share our thoughts and ideologies with our fellow poopie-heads. poopie-poopie-poopie-poopie!!!

I did acid once, white boy gave it to me. He said "you gonna be trippin", I said Shit, I ain't goin' nowhere without my luggage.
-Richard Pryor


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Offlinezetek
enthusiast

Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 210
Loc: United States
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #377369 - 08/23/01 11:03 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I would have to ask "What kind of conservative are you?" I can no longer find a link to the complete article, but here is a summary. In brief, there have been 5 democrat factions and 4 republican factions identified. My guess is that 'conservatives that trip' are probably not all that socially conservative. I personally abhor social conservatives i.e. the "Religious Right." Fiscally, I would say I'm moderate, so I probably agree with many fiscal conservatives/Republicans in this area. It boils down to the lesser of two evils for me; since I can't stand the Pat Robertson Republicans, I will vote against whomever they support. Anyway, here is a summary of the article which is all I could find:
In reply to:

The Sunday, October 4, 1998 issue of The Washington Post had a front page article that described "Libertarian Democrats" as being one of the five main kinds of Democrats. With the title "Core Beliefs Recast Party Lines", the article summarized a national survey done by the Post, the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University.

The survey was based on cluster analysis, and "grouped together individuals who held similar core values to illuminate the competing and contrasting factions within the Democratic and Republican parties. Overall, the analsis found that four distinct clusters of voters make up more than 90 percent of the Republican Party. ... Democrats are even more fractured: Five separate groups struggle to coexist within the party.... More than nine out of ten Democrats fit into one of the five Democratic factions."

Here are excerpts from the article's descriptions of the five kinds of Democrats the survey found within the Democratic Party:

"The Determined Liberals":
"Economically and socially liberal". They're compassionate, pro-government and anti-business." "About 30% of all Democrats."

"Helping Hand Democrats":
[Fiscally liberal, socially between liberals and conservatives.] "Only one Republican group is more religious." They favor "traditional family values. "They're also far more compassionate than most Republicans or Democrats. A majority says welfare benefits should be continued after five years."
"This group shares many similar policy preferences of Determined Liberals. But these groups...split sharply over homosexual rights. Eight in 10 Helping Hand Democrats say homosexuality is always wrong and should't be tolerated." "About 22% of all Democrats."


"Discouraged White Democrats":
[Socially conservative, and apparently economically between fiscal conservatives and centrists.] "More say they are conservatives than say they are liberals".... "Almost nine out of ten say homosexuality should not be tolerated, and "They object more to marriages between blacks and whites than any group, Republican or Democrat." "About 19% of all Democrats."

"New Generation Democrats":
[Socially and fiscally liberal. According to the description in the article, apparently they differ from the "Determined Liberals" in being much less favorable toward welfare programs than liberals, even more tolerant of homosexuality, and the least religious group within either party.] "[T]he majority say smoking marijuana is acceptable".
"More than any group in America, they like big government: Nearly two in three want a bigger federal government with more services" (eg managed care; preventing teenage smoking). [But it has the lowest expected voter turnout of any Democratic group.] This group makes up "About 15 percent of Democrats".


The Libertarian Democrats:
[Oppose "big government" when it comes to the economy, and also oppose big government interference in personal matters, such as religion and lifestyle decisions.] "About 9 percent of all Democrats."
"These Democrats hate the government, are fiercely independent and are closer to Republicans than any other Democratic faction.

"But they dislike religion in politics even more than they despise big government: More than nine out of ten say organized religious groups of all kinds should 'stay out of politics' - no other group, Democrat or Republican, is remotely as antagonistic.

"Moreover, they don't like moralists and traditionalists, ranking only behind New Generation Democrats in terms of their rejection of conventional marality and acceptance of alternate lifestyles.

"They're mostly self-made men and women: Three in four strongly agree that 'people should take responsibility for their own lives and economic well-being and not expect other people to help.' They also believe hard work guarantees success, and it's apparently true for them. This group contains the highest percentage of full-time workers as well as the largest proportion of Democrats earning more than $50,000 a year.

"Their policy preferences flow directly from their secular, libertarian views. These voters oppose school prayer, and they reject vouchers as a way to help pay for private or religious schools.

"They're also the most likely of any Democratic group to favor cutting welfare benefits after five years and the least likely to support affirmative action programs. Big minorities support legalizing casino gambling and physician-assisted suicide, and seven in 10 approve of allowing individuals to invest some of their Social Security nest egg in the stock market.

"Footnote: These Democrats have strongly held opinions - perhaps a bit too strong. More than four in 10 say they've been divorced sometime in their lives."


The four groups the survey found in the Republican Party were labelled as: 1) "The Liberal Republicans" ("About 19 percent of all Republicans"); 2) "Big Business Republicans" ("About 22 percent of all Republicans"); 3) "Big Government Republicans" ("About 23 percent of all Republicans"); and 4) "The Religious Conservatives" ("About 29 percent of all Republicans").
Curiously, even though the survey's analysis of the Democratic Party included a category they labeled as "Libertarian Democrats", the analysis of the Republican Party did not use the term "Libertarian Republican" for any of the groups in the Republican Party, even though some other commentators have referred to the Libertarian Republican faction in the Republican Party.

The survey does describe a faction of Republicans that are fiscally conservative ("Nearly nine in 10 say they prefer a smaller government providing fewer services over a larger one providing more") and socially tolerant ("To those who would translate their moral beliefs into laws prohibiting this or requiring that, they say: Butt out"). But the survey labels that group as "Big Business Republicans" - even though nothing in the article says anything to indicate that the group necessarily favors big business over small business or medium size business, or to imply that it favors any kind of special privileges for big business.

Apparently, one must obtain a copy of the complete survey in order to find why that label was used for that group of Republicans.

An interesting comment the article made about that category of Republicans is: "Don't bother asking these Americans for a handout. Only a third in this group say it is very important to them personally to help the less fortunate, fewer than in any other Republican or Democratic group."

That comment might be relevant to a question that is often asked: "What is the difference between libertarian Republicans and libertarian Democrats?" One of the key differences is that libertarian Democrats seem more likely to emphasize a socially responsible transition toward liberty, which focuses first on removing corporate welfare, rather than cutting the social safety net first. If corporate welfare is removed first, then more jobs will open up, with higher wages and a lower cost of living.

The survey's comments above about the difference in social concern seem to be relevant to the distinction between libertarian Republicans and libertarian Democrats.








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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #377796 - 08/24/01 03:01 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Well i'm back from a well deserved vacation..so it's time to rile a little liberal ass. I'm not a conservative but rather a Libertarian (this is what libbies like to call Facist) Though i tend to agree more with conservatives...if you'd like to know where i stand then i would describe myself as a Ted Nugent Libertarian.

I've tripped 3 times and i'm not really sure how i feel about it. I like to skim this board to familiarize myself with the ignorance of today's generation who think the world owes them something.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: superpimp]
    #377798 - 08/24/01 03:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

poopie..he he

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinemoonrawk
newbie

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 44
Loc: USA
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: capncracker]
    #377913 - 08/24/01 05:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Capn, I won't deny my use of the word 'mindless' and 'oddities' was designed to annoy and prompt responses. I'm not a penis-waving name caller, but that's a funny phrase.. mind if I borrow it? ;)

Moonrawk

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


--------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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Offlinemoonrawk
newbie

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 44
Loc: USA
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: zetek]
    #377918 - 08/24/01 05:49 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Zetek, I consider myself a small-L libertarian-Republican. I agree with most of what libertarians have to say about fiscal policy, welfare, etc., but I part ways with them on other issues. Democratic politicians make me feel like impaling myself. Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt are EVIL. I am a social conservative in virtually every way. Roe V. Wade should be overturned, because it's unconstitutional. States should have the right to decide on a state by state basis about abortion. That tends to be the issue raised when people on the left accuse conservatives of trying to "force their morality" on everyone. It's funny though because one look at public schooling tells you that the Liberals are fully entrenched in education and are actively trying to inculcate a whole new generation of little non-thinking zombies who hate freedom and wouldn't know the Constitution if it smacked them in the head and spoke.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


--------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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Offlinemoonrawk
newbie

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 44
Loc: USA
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: Innvertigo]
    #377924 - 08/24/01 05:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I don't care for Ted's music but ANYONE who can piss off the Liberal pinko establishment is GREAT in my book. Yes, I support the right of ANY law abiding citizen to own GUNS.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


--------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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OfflineToTheSummit
peregrinus
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/23/99
Posts: 9,065
Loc: Las Vegas
Last seen: 4 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #378026 - 08/24/01 08:59 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Socially liberal + fiscally/politically conservative = Libertarian

Libertarian + Tripper = ToTheSummit

:)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do!


--------------------
You invented the wheel....You push the motherfucker!!


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Offlinezetek
enthusiast

Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 210
Loc: United States
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #378651 - 08/25/01 06:44 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I thought it was the Conservatives that hated freedom? i.e. those freedoms granted by the First Amendment.

Edited by zetek on 08/25/01 06:09 PM.



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Anonymous

Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #378699 - 08/25/01 08:42 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I'm with summit. I'm a libertarian, we like freedom =). I like shrooms!



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Offlinezetek
enthusiast

Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 210
Loc: United States
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: ]
    #378715 - 08/25/01 09:10 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

World's Smallest Political Quiz
This has been up here before but I thought I'd re-post it. I'm "left-liberal."



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Offlineheadphone
Stranger
Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 19
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: zetek]
    #378737 - 08/25/01 09:45 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

that damn quiz is a joke man - pure recruiting propaganda. Could they get more evangelistic?

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/rupright.html



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: zetek]
    #379087 - 08/26/01 11:11 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Liberals are the ones who want others to bend to their ways of acceptance. According to liberals the constitution is a liquid document....and that includes the 1st amendment...besides, without the 2nd amendment all others are meaningless.

liberals like freedom if it's by their rules....as christians

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineheadphone
Stranger
Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 19
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: Innvertigo]
    #379341 - 08/26/01 05:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

a?mend?ment (-mndmnt)
n.
The act of changing for the better; improvement: ?Society may sometimes show signs of repentance and amendment? (George G. Coulton).
A correction or alteration, as in a manuscript.

The process of formally altering or adding to a document or record.
A statement of such an alteration or addition


Gee - I wonder why they call 'em amendments...hmm.

Both conservatives & liberals are guilty of attempting to impose their morality upon others - anyone who says one side is guilty of such actions while the other isnt has not been paying much attention.




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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: headphone]
    #379958 - 08/27/01 03:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I have no problem with adding amendments if they contribute to the freedom of the individual. The Bill of Rights (the first Ten amendments to the constitution) are NOT liquid. They were intended on keeping the government in check, NOT to regulate the individual's freedom. If you believe so are you for changing the 1st amendment if one group finds it "BETTER" for the country?..if not why?

***Both conservatives & liberals are guilty of attempting to impose their morality upon others - anyone who says one side is guilty of such actions while the other isnt has not been paying much attention.***

I'm neither conservative or liberal and i'm not that naive to believe that one side is 100% innocent.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineTheHateKiller_c_
journeyman
Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 16
Loc: Texas, USA
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #382874 - 08/31/01 07:05 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I'm none of those. I've tried to decide who I stand closest to, but I can't seem to settle on one or two (maybe Libertarian, but the economy....) To be honest, I'd have to say that I'm in favor of completely revamping the structure of modern government. I'll go into those suggestions another time though......

"When you change your mind,
you change your life...."


--------------------
"The surest way corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." -- Nietzsche


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OfflineTheHateKiller_c_
journeyman
Registered: 08/18/01
Posts: 16
Loc: Texas, USA
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: TheHateKiller_c_]
    #382877 - 08/31/01 07:08 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

ah ha!!!!! radical moderate. on most issues i tend to have a moderate position, but i hate the present system. too much entrenched corruption. and, oh, how i love freedom.

"When you change your mind,
you change your life...."


--------------------
"The surest way corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." -- Nietzsche


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