mushmaster said:

you say that the oil companies are to blame for its stagnation, but why? what are they doing to hamper the development of biomass fuels such as biodiesel?

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if biodiesel is indeed cheaper to produce than petroleum-based diesel, any oil company that developed production of it (bearing in mind that oil companies, with their current assets, are already in the best position to offer biodiesel cheaply) would profit enormously.

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mushmaster said:
absent forceful restraint, most people will tend to use energy sources which are cheapest. other than the ban on hemp, which affects only a small part of the world, there is no forceful restraint against the development of hemp-based biofuels. the fact of the matter is that petroleum is still cheaper, in general economic terms, than biomass.

in order to change this, petroleum must become more expensive or biomass fuel must become cheaper. the question is (and maybe this will get this thread, though now off-topic, perhaps at least back into the realm of PAL):

should forceful restraint be employed to foster these changes? what (if anything) should the government do here?

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mushmaster said:

The oil corporations are deep in the pockets of the government, especially an administration run by former oil executives.

perhaps, but oil companies, with their current assets, are the ones in the position to profit most from developing cheaper fuels. it's simply not in their interest to forestall new methods for creating cheap hydrocarbon-based fuel.

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Also, you may remember I mentioned corn earlier. The government actually pays farmers to NOT grow corn beyond a certain point. Coincidence?

that's more of a subsidy for farmers. it keeps the price of corn from falling so low that large numbers of corn farmers lose their farms. at the same time, it does increase the price (and reduce the supply) of raw material for producing ethanol (and food), but i don't think it's a major factor. you know i'm all for eliminating such interferences in the market, but i do seriously doubt that eliminating this one would suddenly make biofuels replace petroleum.

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But then they wouldn't be oil companies, would they? They're in the business of drilling for oil and selling it. They don't like competition.

nah, they can change, and certainly would, if it meant profit. the change wouldn't even be a large one. much of their current capital could be used in the production, transport, and sale of renewable hydrocarbon fuels.

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mushmaster said:

If we switched to biodiesel, their economy would be crushed. I'm sure I don't need to tell you about Saudi Arabia's all-too-close connection to the American government.

you are talking about a situation which would be better for us and worse for them. you seem to have lost sight of that. the only reason we're tight with them is because they have something we want. take that away....

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Maybe not, but it's hard not to see an ulterior motive here.

there are similar agricultural subsidies for milk and tobacco.

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Resulting in a breakdown in our current foreign relations to oil-producing countries.

not necessarily. i don't think that our government is keeping us on fossil fuels, to the dismay of the oilmen, simply to help our relations with oil exporters. this administration, and those before it, have tried to reduce our dependence on foriegn oil.

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mushmaster said:

i don't buy into this idea that government regulation is hampering the development of alternative fuel sources. tomorrow, if the government just went, "alright... hands off the energy industry" i do not believe that this would spur growth in alternative fuel sources.

even in a lassiez-faire situation, petroleum is still king.

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petroleum is the cheapest thing out there right now. changing that is going to require governmental force in favor of alternative fuels, not merely the removal of government enforcement in favor of petroleum. i wish it were not this way, but it is.

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dude, easy on the conspiracy theories...

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just because corn happens to be similarly efficient
compared to hemp and corn has a subsidy doesn't
mean that there is a vast conspiracy to hold the
corn down...

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can I grow hemp?

didn't they just lift or are considering lifting the ban
on domestic production?

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