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Anonymous

Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #382951 - 08/31/01 09:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

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OfflineMrKurtz
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Registered: 08/04/01
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: Innvertigo]
    #383099 - 09/01/01 02:50 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

eh, isnt the point of the 2nd amendment to keep the government in check and keep foreign soveriegns out? seeing as how a bunch of redneck hicks with guns add up to shit nowadays, and handguns are good for nothing but murdering people, i dont see how this amendment applies to modern life. the 2nd amendment was made because, at the time of the writing of the bill of rights, civilians taking up arms against oppression was a noble thing. but, with the military technology we have today, i dont think a militia with a few small arms is going to change anything.

The homicide rate of countries like japan, where virtually no one has a handgun, is 1/7th that of america. the rate of handgun homicides is so drastic, japan has only about 1/3 of a % of the handgun homicides as america. america has more murders then any western european country.

If anyone can give me 1 valid reason why america should still have handguns (protection is not one, its much more common to be killed by your own handgun then have it save your life) i would very impressed.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: MrKurtz]
    #386529 - 09/05/01 09:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

****If anyone can give me 1 valid reason why america should still have handguns (protection is not one, its much more common to be killed by your own handgun then have it save your life) i would very impressed.****

protection is the only answer that you will get. You don't have to own a gun if you don't want to, but don't go saying that i don't deserve one because it makes you feel queezy. How can anyone who has ever walked through a nazi death camp or seen pictures of the halocaust say that we have no right to defend ourselves.

do you know the difference between slaves and masters?

Slaves don't own guns

****america has more murders then any western european country****

If your talking per capita then i believe you might be mistaken. Remember we are the Third most populated country behind China and India. Saying that we have more instances doesn't tell me a damn thing. As for your entire theory. how do you explain switzerland?

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Registered: 08/04/01
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: Innvertigo]
    #386725 - 09/06/01 02:26 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

yes, i was talking per 100k people, it is far more then any other country in western europe. And, do you really think if the jews had guns it would have saved their lives? they might have killed a few more nazi's, but in the end, they probably just would have died alot faster. if americans tried to protect themselves today by buying a bunch of M-16's from a tyrannical government, do you really think they would be able to defend themselves against tanks and fighter jets and the like? unless your saying every american has the right to own a F-18 (or whatever the standard fighter jets are for the military), for protection that is, against tyranny and injustice.

And i would just like to add, a slave with a gun = a dead slave. I'm sure you read about that slave uprising led by that crazy guy... can't believe i dont remember his name. anyways, most of the slave who rebelled were killed, and other then bringing up the point that blacks are dangerous, it did very little for their cause.

Edited by MrKurtz on 09/06/01 01:32 AM.



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Anonymous

Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: MrKurtz]
    #386731 - 09/06/01 02:33 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: ]
    #386736 - 09/06/01 02:44 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

heh, the jews were not a country first off, they were spread throughout europe and were most densely populated in poland. poland did fight like hell, didn't really get them anywhere, and the fighting in poland didn't draw very much attention from what the nazi's were trying to do. And i guess i am getting off track abit, why would handguns be necessary for a country worried about its right to rebel and fight tyranny? not like america is afraid of anything.. but is it really necessary to have them? i understand the need for assault rifles and such, if protecting your rights is the issue, but handguns are ineffective for fighting wars, only effective for killing people without any warning. i guess i should have brought that up first, heh, whats the use of handguns (other then murder)?

Edited by MrKurtz on 09/06/01 01:45 AM.



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Anonymous

Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: MrKurtz]
    #386753 - 09/06/01 03:06 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: ]
    #386759 - 09/06/01 03:15 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

well, heh, i think it was a little more complicated then a nazi soldier busting into your house, and yes, i agree with you that i much rather have assault rifles be legal then handguns. my step-grandfather lived through the holocaust, he saw his father die, and i seriously doubt if they had a few guns they would have been better off, mostly because they didn't know it was happening really until to late. the biggest problem with the halocaust was no one would take the jews in because they had no passports. well anyways, i would like to know what rail gun and/or innvertigo feel about handguns?



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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: MrKurtz]
    #386771 - 09/06/01 03:43 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I am vehimently opposed to gun control of any sort. I'm a hunter and a shooting sportsman. I shoot sporting clays, trap, and bullseye pistol matches. I reload ammo in .45 acp. I believe in gun ownership for sports and personal defence. I love guns and I love shooting.

But a picture is worth a thousand words, this picture expresses my feelings better than my words can:




--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: MrKurtz]
    #386864 - 09/06/01 08:50 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

who do you think will fly these jets when (hypothetical) the people revolt?

i was in the army and would of never killed americans in this manner

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: Innvertigo]
    #389069 - 09/09/01 01:40 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

maybe you wouldn't, but i'm sure plenty of pilots would. not everyone has as high moral standards as you do.



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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: MrKurtz]
    #389248 - 09/09/01 10:10 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

high moral standards have nothing to do with it. Respect for the common man does. It's pretty sad if you find this action to be one of high morality. Actually it scares me that there would be anyone who would kill their own kind because the "government" told them.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #389392 - 09/09/01 03:26 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Wow rail gun, thats a pretty crazy picture. I'm completely against gun control but that thing is pretty sick. Especially the bottom message.

On another note, if our country decided to take out it's citizens using tanks and planes I think they would have a pretty big mess on their hands. Citizens with any kind of guns could do a lot of damage to the gov't if fought urban warefare style. Ever see red dawn =)




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OfflineMrKurtz
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Registered: 08/04/01
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: Innvertigo]
    #389681 - 09/09/01 08:51 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

well, i was somewhat sarcastic saying it was high moral standards. there are alot of scumbags in the army, and theres alot of good guys there to. also, if there was an all out revolt, couldnt the american government hire pilots? im sure lots of people (dont forget foreign mercenaries) would be more then willing to fight if it would make their pockets fatter.



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OfflineMrKurtz
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: ]
    #389695 - 09/09/01 09:05 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

whenever a nutjob militia tries to make a stand and hole up inside a somewhat fortified building, the government never has much of a problem containing it, and they do use tanks, not to blow them to hell, but to gas them. and there are lots of things other then bombs loaded on aircrafts... an apache helicopter could easily mow down dozens of men with rifles without taking any real damage. theres lots of technology today that is made to take out personal and not cause much damage to the surrounding areas. of course, the government wouldn't just go trigger happy if there were a few protesters, but if people actually took up arms against the government and actually killed people, they would have no choice but to massacre them. if a large majority of the american public wanted to change the government without violence however, they probably wouldn't have much opposition. (hell, this isn't a dictatorship, the government is what we make it)



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Anonymous

Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: MrKurtz]
    #389758 - 09/09/01 10:32 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I was referring to large public uprises, not small town hick militias.

We are a representative gov't, but when people starting relying on the gov't to maintain their lives, that is when power gets out of control. Granted, I don't feel the need to revolt anytime soon, but as long as we let one thing go, like gun control.. what's next? Do you honestly think everyone is just going to sit back and pat themselves on the back and end it? No way, it will continue, people will consantly try to ban everything that could harm someone. Let's look at the big picture... not one that feels right so you can rest easy.



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Offlinehatter
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Registered: 03/27/01
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Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: moonrawk]
    #389843 - 09/10/01 12:41 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

To all the conserviosos out there:

What about the 'Log Cabin' Republicans like Mark Foley R-Fl., or the whole Libertarian Party? You do realize that the current structure of the Republican Party is a bastard step-child of its original structure, don't you? And that the aforementioned Party and sub-Party hold the closest to original Republican ideals?? Many conservatives like to tout their Party as 'Abe's Party', but that couldn't be further from the truth...no more true than everyone that is named Smith is a 1st cousin...

How is a raven like a writing desk?

How deep is the rabbit hole? To find out, go.to/FreeSporeRing


--------------------
How is a raven like a writing desk?

How deep is the rabbit hole? To find out, go.to/FreeSporeRing


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Conservatives who trip [Re: hatter]
    #390178 - 09/10/01 01:51 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Good point. I do lable myself a Libertarian, but closely resemble that of a "Jeffersonian Conservative" which is very different from the Republicrates that are in the government today and closely resembles the libertarian philosophy.

Relax, Relax, Relax.....it's just a little pin prick * there'll be no more AARRGGHHH!!!! but you may feel a little sick.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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