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Anonymous

Liberals suck. So do conservatives.
    #1237558 - 01/21/03 05:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The basis of republicans is alright, stuff I agree with for the most part. Liberalism at it's root isn't that bad, though some of it ought to go. So why is it that in the real world, the actions of liberals always seem 10x better to me than that of republicans? I'll tell you why.

Each side ends up with certain causes illogically affiliated with their party. For example, abortion, gun control, civil rights, environmentalism. I could go on. Why is it that democrats are known to be more symapthetic to the environment? Republicans more sensitive to business? Democrats more sensitive to women having a right to choose? Republicans more sensitive to our right to own a gun?

What do these issues in and of themselves have to do with the core of their sponsoring parties ideology? Here's my theory: Not much at all, and the fact that they are is a symptom (or maybe a cause) of a very serious problem.

Almost everyone in our country considers themselves either a liberal or a democrat. And to most of these people, actions of the other party usually seem questionable, and those of their own party usually seem right. What I am proposing here, is that for the vast majority of people who would affiliate themselves with one of these parties, is that they are basically told what to think (by their party) about issues that have nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Do you believe in affirmative action because you've thouht the issue through thoroughly and wholeheartedly? Or do you believe what you believe because you affiliate yourself with a political party and they already had the view you should have ready for you?

The truth of the matter lies between the positions of the two parties. Neither side is all the way right. The answer is in between. Whenever an issue gets pressed to the forefront, it seems, both sides will have an opposite stance on it, that may or may not have anything to do at all with the ideology.

What then becomes dangerous about this, is how people who would otherwise critically think for themselves, become illogical and stupid. Things pressed by conservatives, to a liberal, are already colored in a negative light, not beacuse of what is at stake, but simply because it's being pushed by conservatives and thus liberals can't agree.

So that is why both sides are really stupid. I see good idea's get shot down here all the time, and bad one's get applauded, for absolutely no reason besides the fact that whatever party it is you affiliate yourself with told you to think that, or the idea originated from the other party.

Does anyone see what the hell I'm getting at?!?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: ]
    #1237574 - 01/21/03 05:43 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

It's all about special interests. Democrats are bought by a certain group of special interests and Republicans are bought by another (IMO more scary) group.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (01/21/03 05:44 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1237592 - 01/21/03 05:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Key word there being "bought."


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: ]
    #1237601 - 01/21/03 05:51 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly! That's why the Democrats are against school vouchers. Cuz they get money from the Public School Boards.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDilauded
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: ]
    #1237624 - 01/21/03 05:56 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I see what you're getting at but the way I see it is Liberals are based on feeling and they have to appeal to the lower class citizens by welfare and old folks by more social security and Conservative are based on thinking. There's not a whole bunch of genious left(unless you count sneakiness) but a majority of the right are more of an intellectual type.

Quote:

The answer is in between.



Clinton did a good job posing as a centuralist and he got elected, but he was still liberal as can be.

I hate politics but it is involved with my life so I choose the party that has the least bullshit and that's the right or Republicans,
Dilauded


Edited by Dilauded (01/21/03 06:07 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: Dilauded]
    #1237645 - 01/21/03 06:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I disagree with your idea that conservatives are more intellectual. Karl Marx was certainly an intellectual, as were Che Guevara and George Orwell(a socialist). Most intellectuals, whether liberal or conservative, don't seem to belong to either of the mainstream parties. Liberal intellectuals tend to be Communist or Socialist, while conservative intellectuals tend to be Libertarian.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDilauded
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1237653 - 01/21/03 06:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

but my main point was that the left Socialist Communist are based on feeling good rather than the right is more based on hard work.

Socialism and Communism SOUND GOOD that's it. Can you name a successful socialist/communist economy????

"Communism/Socialism destroys individualism" does that mean anything to you?
Dilauded


Edited by Dilauded (01/21/03 06:21 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: Dilauded]
    #1237658 - 01/21/03 06:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Communism and Socialism are based on the idea that all people should be taken care of by the government, while conservatives believe everyone should have to fend for themselves.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineDilauded
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1237662 - 01/21/03 06:22 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Aren't we all big and grown up and old enough to wipe our own asses?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: Dilauded]
    #1237664 - 01/21/03 06:23 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Not everyone, no. Some people are mentally retarded. Some people have debilitating addictions they can't seem to quit. Some people are single mothers who can't balance a job with raising a kid. Some people can't make ends meet on minimum wage.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTheCaptain
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: ]
    #1237669 - 01/21/03 06:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

heh.

Man, I couldnt agree more. I was actually writing up a post to start a thread on this very same topic.

Its almost like a nationalist state of mind. "My country (party in this instance) is my home, so im going to stand against whatever yours says because wre better and you dont have any good ideas."
Thats an attitude im seeing a lot of these days. Its stupidity no matter how you slice it.

Maybe you guys should come up with a whole bunch of other political parties that arent so polarized?? Maybe then we could actually get somewhere.


--------------------
"I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. 'Course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are."


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Anonymous

Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: Dilauded]
    #1237685 - 01/21/03 06:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Liberals are based on feeling.......... and Conservative are based on thinking.




My instinct was almost to jump all over you for that one, but in a sense I honestly see exactly where you are coming from so I won't.  I'm not saying you're totally right, just that I can see exactly why you would say that.

However, if that was what you drew from my post you definitely did not see what I was getting at.  Actually, I think I did a rather poor job at articulating what I was trying to say.  As far as what I actually wrote, Silversoul, you answered it perfectly: special interests.

The point I was getting at was obviously lost due to the way I wrote that passage though.  Back to the drawing board. :grin:


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Anonymous

Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: ]
    #1237692 - 01/21/03 06:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I guess for one, I'll put it out there that a parliament system seems like a much better way to do things than a polarized two-party system. Maybe now people will see what I was trying to say. I'll write up a new thread tomorrow. I suppose there is still some discussion to be had in here though.


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OfflineDilauded
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1237698 - 01/21/03 06:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

The retarded are cared for already. Welfare is fine where it is for those mothers with a kid. Minimum wage is meant to be the starting point of having a job. It gives you something to work up to. Government's place isn't in our lives. And with all the stuff you mentioned = more taxes. Less jobs with more taxes, so that guy who can't make it with minimum wage isn't gonna have a job at all. The boss would like to have another employee but thanks to those high taxes he won't get one and economic dissent begins. Its all common sense. I'm strong enough to support myself, and govt can give a little help which it already does not an overly excessive amt like your left views stand by. There's not much of that thing called Freedom of Speech in Communism.

Dilauded


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: Dilauded]
    #1237718 - 01/21/03 06:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well, I wasn't necessarily saying that we need more welfare or anything. I was just explaining the need for welfare and why liberals support it. Also, unfair business practices such as insider trading can also cause unemployment and are bad for the economy. Just look at Enron.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (01/21/03 06:41 PM)


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OfflineDilauded
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1237789 - 01/21/03 07:00 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Enron was related to the Clinton Administration.


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Anonymous

Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: Dilauded]
    #1237829 - 01/21/03 07:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Really? I thought it was Cheney in bed with Enron.

Funny how it was such a huge deal about those papers getting released that the Bush Administration had to fight so hard to keep what was in them a secret.


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OfflineDilauded
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: ]
    #1237844 - 01/21/03 07:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I believe it was Clinton's guy responsible for reporting the audits. Therefore he reported false reports and when they left, here comes these problems.


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Anonymous

Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: Dilauded]
    #1237870 - 01/21/03 07:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You can try to blame Clinton as much as you want. It lacks any basis. Back it up with a link. Here's mine.


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OfflineDilauded
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Re: Liberals suck. So do conservatives. [Re: ]
    #1237956 - 01/21/03 08:11 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

And here's mine


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