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Experience and non-duality - Practice of noticing 'This'
    #19568806 -

Recently I have discovered that when I put my attention on a sense field, usually vision as that seems the easiest to see 'this', with a subtle shift of attention I see that there is nothing outside of my field of vision, and that everything in my field of vision in this moment is who and what I am, the revelation is that this is all there is.

If I enter 3rd Jhana while doing this, I would previously have said that I had gained a heightened awareness, clarity, of the world, which I am 'in', and which is independent of my being in it. But with this shift of awareness, I see that I am the objects in my field of vision, and that there is no separation between me and those objects, in other words, I and the world feel like a single connected piece. This becomes further puzzling and strange when noticing that the body is there in the field of vision!

I believe that this shift of attention is to the energy field of being, which then becomes everything perceived in the sensory fields of awareness. Shifting the attention like this would be a practice of noticing 'this', while closed eyes meditation would then be a deeper union with the non-sensory contact with 'this'.

This is not to negate or say the world doesn't really exist, or run independent of my being here, but rather, while that may be so, it is never the less simply a thought in my field of experience, and can therefore only form part of a belief system, which in essence, is delusional, fantasy, as it has no bearing on the actuality of my immediate experience.

I'm only just beginning to see these things and haven't explored them with any depth, I am aware that non-dual practices, dzogchen, advaita, deal with these issues, but I have as yet not read the literature associated with these experiences I am having, and wonder if anyone could shed any light on this here.

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Re: Experience and non-duality - Practice of noticing 'This' [Re: greenery1]
    #19569487 -

Well the associated literature will give you tantalizing descriptions of phenomenon which may or may not be relevant to what you are experiencing. In other words discretion should be used when relying on your own research. I am fascinated by similar observations to the ones you're making here, and have poured over all of the literature on the topic I can find, western and eastern philosophy, mysticism, esotericism and so on. However in doing so I notice the stress and emphasis laid upon the importance of 1. finding a worthy instructor and 2. committing to the chosen path exclusively and totally. That's not to say you can't depend on yourself to discover knowledge regarding the phenomenon you describe, or that such pursuits aren't rewarding, but if you're beginning to see the tip of the iceberg, you'll also start to see that the mind is not as concentrated when it is spread out between many different philosophies, there is still the same amount of light but it must be spread over many objects rather than being able to focus in on one particular object to the full degree of your mind's strength.

The longer I go on the more I find myself reaching outwards, looking for that one practice, that one teacher in which I can place all my trust/mental effort so that none of it is wasted in pursuit of true knowledge of reality. 

The experience of the visual field becoming one with your perception of it is a confusing event. It is impossible to accurately describe the experience, as soon as you relate it, the subject-object duality slices into your description like a razor, cutting it in two. I.e. there must be a further consciousness which is aware of this consciousness-shift. In turn an infinite regress is implied. In this case we've no more described a picture of non-duality than if we had made an initial observation of the visual field before the "attention shift". So how to describe something that in its essence must arise before description as such is possible? Ultimately the visual field (or any other field of awareness) does not reveal your Self. If the Self (consciousness, awareness, etc) were revealed to itself in a field, it would cease to be awareness as such, for the reasons listed above (an infinite regress of consciousnesses would be implied, each one needing a further awareness to reveal itself). Insofar as there is a being for the Self, it gives itself away as "Neti, neti" (not this, not this). It is in pure absence that consciousness announces itself. In the experience you describe, the visual field is all there is. There is nothing outside the field. But to assume that you ARE this field is to demand a surplus of Self which is immediately refused. It would still be false, but possibly easier for intuition to work with to remark that you are not the visual field or the objects in it but rather the "nothingness" of all these objects, given at once.

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Re: Experience and non-duality - Practice of noticing 'This' [Re: windowlikcer]
    #19570211 -

windowlikcer said:
Well the associated literature will give you tantalizing descriptions of phenomenon which may or may not be relevant to what you are experiencing. In other words discretion should be used when relying on your own research. I am fascinated by similar observations to the ones you're making here, and have poured over all of the literature on the topic I can find, western and eastern philosophy, mysticism, esotericism and so on. However in doing so I notice the stress and emphasis laid upon the importance of 1. finding a worthy instructor and 2. committing to the chosen path exclusively and totally. That's not to say you can't depend on yourself to discover knowledge regarding the phenomenon you describe, or that such pursuits aren't rewarding, but if you're beginning to see the tip of the iceberg, you'll also start to see that the mind is not as concentrated when it is spread out between many different philosophies, there is still the same amount of light but it must be spread over many objects rather than being able to focus in on one particular object to the full degree of your mind's strength

The longer I go on the more I find myself reaching outwards, looking for that one practice, that one teacher in which I can place all my trust/mental effort so that none of it is wasted in pursuit of true knowledge of reality.


I have found peter brown to be excellent (website: the open doorway), helped me enormously. But I had been mediating daily for years, and reach second jhana every time I meditate (where thinking stops and stress/anxiety vanish, and bliss and joy arise, like someone lifting an enormous weight off the chest, into open infinite space), so I have some facility with deep contemplative states associated with Jhana and closed eye meditation, but I have no tools or skills to think about how to see and bring this into my everyday activities.

Peter Brown helped with this, at first I was tempted to call him a charlatan when he would say 'don't meditate' and that 'it doesn't matter', his approach is very intellectual with the whole process and I think most people will not be able to see what he is talking about from just the verbal explanations he gives. I have also listened to Tony Parsons who seems good, and I have heard Jed McKenna is worth looking into but I have not read his work. 



The experience of the visual field becoming one with your perception of it is a confusing event. It is impossible to accurately describe the experience, as soon as you relate it, the subject-object duality slices into your description like a razor, cutting it in two. I.e. there must be a further consciousness which is aware of this consciousness-shift. In turn an infinite regress is implied. In this case we've no more described a picture of non-duality than if we had made an initial observation of the visual field before the "attention shift". So how to describe something that in its essence must arise before description as such is possible? Ultimately the visual field (or any other field of awareness) does not reveal your Self. If the Self (consciousness, awareness, etc) were revealed to itself in a field, it would cease to be awareness as such, for the reasons listed above (an infinite regress of consciousnesses would be implied, each one needing a further awareness to reveal itself). Insofar as there is a being for the Self, it gives itself away as "Neti, neti" (not this, not this). It is in pure absence that consciousness announces itself. In the experience you describe, the visual field is all there is. There is nothing outside the field. But to assume that you ARE this field is to demand a surplus of Self which is immediately refused. It would still be false, but possibly easier for intuition to work with to remark that you are not the visual field or the objects in it but rather the "nothingness" of all these objects, given at once.


Yes, that is what I mean, that the sub/objective dichotomy disappears, all there is left is this - awareness itself. The weirdness is in how that awareness seems to be one and the same with all that is present in that sense field. It's very weird, but very beautiful, like science fiction happening now.

I am still totally blown away by this, at the same time wonder whether I am not just playing mind tricks with myself, or if this is in fact what actually 'is'. If it is, then my world just got stranger than I ever thought possible.

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Re: Experience and non-duality - Practice of noticing 'This' [Re: greenery1]
    #19573593 -

I like this approach, of just noticing what's here, noticing what it is that is here before we even notice what's here, noticing what's beyond noticing, self-attention, but not placing that 'self' as being anywhere in particular, realizing it as it is, as you are

I like that you see that any thoughts or beliefs are not true and have no bearing when it comes to the immediacy and intimacy of direct experience

You certainly have a few boxes ticked in my opinion :smile:

Now your signature please...

Who are you?




To realize the non-dual reality, what can you do, when anything you 'do' is duality presumed!

Non-duality already Is, I already Am
You realize reality as it Is, you realize yourself as you are, even to presume it is non-dual is a step too far

Self-inquiry is a great way to realize this because it's questioning the idea that you are other than 'this' already

I don't recommend reading about it or thinking about it (they can help tho) but actually inquiring into your own nature as it is, you have the sense of self, sense it


--------------------

Edited by Chronic7 (02/16/14 06:44 AM)

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Re: Experience and non-duality - Practice of noticing 'This' [Re: Chronic7]
    #19580126 -

I was able to find the same non-dual shift in the field of hearing today, all the sound around me was locatable outside myself, but at the same time it was just here - the field of hearing itself. All of the sounds became my body, I was a body of sound outside of which there was nothing.

At one moment the body of sound felt so ecstatic that there was shooting releases in the stomach region (I have had these before when transitioning/transcending from one samahdi state to another), and I felt as though I was falling. The whole sound body, like the field of vision had been before, felt as though it was one piece.

I opened the eyes and the hearing and vision combined to create the illusion of 3D space. While the illusion may be real, it never the less is  also just light/darkness appearing in this experience.

When I meditate, the shift to the spirit body happens by itself, the meditation on non-sensory phenomena stirring in the body (usually starting as tingles in the feet and hands) grows more intense to a kind of bifurcation point, and then woop! Suddenly there is a point at which I slip into the next Jhana. I see this open eyed 'meditation' on the sense fields to be the same (but much weirder), and more difficult in a way. 

Edited by greenery1 (02/18/14 03:20 AM)

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