Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Cannabis Seeds Zamnesia
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: crkhd]
    #18102139 -

crkhd said:
People do not matter, will not matter and HAVE NEVER EVER EVER EVER mattered. Your consciousness means jack shit when it comes to the running of the universe.


Of course, I agree.

Quote:
No, when you forget something, that does not mean the universe has forgotten a thing. Your limitations do not apply to the universe. The sooner you realise this and accept the futility and total gullibility of anthropocentric thinking, the sooner you would realise how permanent our actions are.


To me, the idea that "the universe" "remembers things" IS an anthropocentric concept. You are just thinking of the universe as theists think of God...that it has a human-like consciousness but with a super-human capacity for remembering all and being aware of all. The universe is aware of nothing and remembers nothing. Every action within the universe sends out ripples that effect everything else, but that doesn't prove that non-existence is a fallacy. Today, my consciousness exists. It won't in hundred years. Hence, non-existence.
Maybe only things in the human world are capable of non-existence.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #18102199 -

I do not think you understand...

The universe does not 'remember' in the way a human does.

Everything is imprinted by heat flows. Every process/interaction becomes continually stripped of energy by entropic processes resulting in the fixed and definite Carnot limit for waste heat expenditure.

The best example is the Cosmic Microwave background radiation, which is at a temp of 2.7K or so IIRC. This heat has been here since practically day 0. Now, when you take a shit in the morning, the heat expenditure from that process is also slowly dissipating through the universe. This heat, this is the universe's "memory". Encoded into this heat is the doings of each and every individual, whether that individual be an object, a person, a brick, whatever. One current method of decoding this heat is being tested in string theory, it is called the AdS/CFT correspondence which states that the 3D surface of the spherical horizon of the observable universe can fully describe the entire 4D volume, or any N dimensional area can describe N-1 dimensions.

This is very far reaching to say the least. In fact you will find all of modern physics is directed entirely towards decoding these heat flows. Without knowing this heat's structure, we cannot have a unified theory of being, we will never know our true nature. What AdS/CFT might lead to, is the understanding of the universe as composed of pixels. These pixels evolve in time like cellular automata. Cellular automatums DO NOT FORGET. They CANNOT forget. You can say anthropo-this or that, your words would then be meaningless and futile, they cannot change their nature.









There is no anthroposising here. This is the nature of the universe, its 4D-ness is its very memory of itself.



"The universe is aware of nothing and remembers nothing. Every action within the universe sends out ripples that effect everything else, but that doesn't prove that non-existence is a fallacy. "

This is where we fundamentally disagree and not only fundamentally but mortally so. I am theist to the fullest extent of the word though I do not subscribe to religion. I cannot ignore the consequences of my actions, but you are welcome to try and bury your head in the sands of impermanence. Rest assured you will be returned, and you may have regret and sorrow to carry for yourself.


Non-existence only occurs within existence. No existence at all => no non-existence. Existence is not dual to non-existence. Existence does not have a dual, it is singular and indivisible. Within existence, reality, This-which-is-happening-and-unignorably-so-ness, creation and destruction occur. Creation and destruction can only occur to objects with a 4 dimensional structure and it ONLY signifies their origin and endpoints along the 4th axis.


Creation and destruction do not apply to Existence itself, which contains these things, which contains the 4D manifold of the universe, contains and encompasses it. It does not have a shape nor any edges; keeping in mind that creation is the first "corner" or "edge" of an object in the time dimension and destruction is its posterior surface. These are SHAPES. They are not philosophical concepts to be wishy washily debated into futile drivels, these are mathematical structures with a rigorous and indisputible description that cannot be tampered with.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

Edited by crkhd (04/13/13 11:27 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: crkhd]
    #18102321 -

Yes I acknowledge that physics shows us that all of the matter we see (and possibly matter that we can't observe) is all in contact with each other. Every action and movement sends out a ripple that touches every other thing in the universe, and its beautiful to be a human and to be able to understand this and be aware of it and experience a sense of marvel at the interconnectivity of all things. As Alan Watts said "we are the vehicle through which the Universe becomes aware of its own glory." To me, the subject, the subjective self, the objective universe is beautiful. Thats a total judgement call. Maybe the subjective self is just an illusion, and maybe its real. Maybe the ego is real, or maybe its a fantasy. Regardless of what it really is, it will pass into nothingness. The illusion will pass into non-existence. Or the "real" self will pass into nothingness. Everything that is subjectively real to me will not continue when what makes up "I" is gone. You must at least be able to acknowledge what I'm saying. This argument we are having is very, very, very old, and it has never been settled because it can't be.

Quote:
This is where we fundamentally disagree and not only fundamentally but mortally so. I am theist to the fullest extent of the word though I do not subscribe to religion. I cannot ignore the consequences of my actions, but you are welcome to try and bury your head in the sands of impermanence.


:lol: How am I burying my head in the sands of impernanance by arguing that the ego ceases to exist? That would be like me accusing you of burying your head in the sands of thermodynamics by talking about Cosmic Microwave radiation. I see your point, I am just arguing that the subjective experience is as real as anything else is, and using logical arguments to do so. If you see a flaw in my logic, by all means point it out. But getting all preachy just makes you sound like a bible-thumper whose text is Deepak Chopra instead of the book of Revelations. Case in point:

Quote:
Rest assured you will be returned, and you may have regret and sorrow to carry for yourself.


Ah yes, so if I don't repent for my sins and subscribe to your philosophy I will burn in my own private hell while you will sadly shake your head with pity for me from your universal nirvana and say "I tried to warn him."

Honestly, I would love an explanation as to how, if humanity matters not at all in the grand scheme of things, I should alter my actions and thinkings or face sorrowful consequences. Seems like if everything you are saying is true it doesn't matter what my attitude is towards the things that happen in the universe.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: gluke bastid]
    #18102954 -

Quote:
I'd say that my telling you that you're going to hell for using psychedelics constitutes an "incendiary or condescending" remark"...  ya think?


Well, IMO/E they are the fruit of knowledge of good and EVIL.  Careful.  I feel I've been to a hell of sorts populated by demons...  !From psychedelic usage!

They say its God's judgement.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: crkhd]
    #18106756 -

crkhd said:
The universe does not 'remember' in the way a human does.

Everything is imprinted by heat flows. Every process/interaction becomes continually stripped of energy by entropic processes resulting in the fixed and definite Carnot limit for waste heat expenditure...



You're theories about universal entropy as a kind of record of everything that has every happened are interesting, but they have nothing to do with the existence of consciousness. When I say non existence, I mean ones consciousness ceases to exist. If I die and I cease to exist, yeah my actions will have influenced the set of variables that makes up the universe, and that can never be undone, but I will still cease to exist as a conscious being.

I'm interested, but I didn't understand a lot of your post, can you explain what a 4D manifold is? What exactly is a manifold in plain English? I looked it up loads of times in the past but never figured it out.


--------------------
…...,~__________________, ,.
….../ `—___________—-___]Give a man a gun
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/he can rob a bank.
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..)),````
…//__/Give a man a bank,he can rob the world!
.//__/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18106926 -

all this beauty said:
Deviate said:
...but here you don't think that negative opinions about psychedelics should be allowed at all?


We're talking about posters whose purpose for posting is to advise unrepentant users of psychedelics that they're going to hell.  Literally.

That's above and beyond a "negative opinion," in my opinion.  That's flaming and bashing.

Refer to the "Forum Rules" thread in this forum.  It states there, in part:

"Flaming or spiritual bashing is not tolerated in this section.
Do not provoke others with incendiary or condescending remarks."

I'd say that my telling you that you're going to hell for using psychedelics constitutes an "incendiary or condescending" remark"...  ya think?


Not if you as an experienced former psychedelic drug user legitimately believe that. It's one thing if someone's intentions are negative and they are only looking to ruffle peoples feathers or get arise out of people. But if someone is respectful and is just sharing their opinion, then i absolutely do not think that it should be censored simply because you dont like their opinion. In fact, I could say that you are engaging in spiritual bashing by being so intolerant of his spiritual belief that psychedelics are sinful. Should some spiritual beliefs be allowed but not others? I mean, you are aware that hell is a very common spiritual belief, right? as long as someone is being polite and respectful, i feel like this forum of all places should be somewhere that gives them the right to express their beliefs and warnings about hell. if you dont like, just ingore it.

I really don't understand why you are so offended by his ideas. I find his point of view unusual and interesting and thus very welcome on this forum.

Edited by Deviate (04/14/13 07:41 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: Deviate]
    #18107095 -

Whatever, Bro.

If saying that users of psychedelics are going to hell doesn't constitute "spiritual bashing" (again, refer to "Forum Rules"), then I have no idea what "spiritual bashing" means.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18107272 -

Spiritual bashing means bashing people for holding spiritual beliefs, for example telling someone they are stupid for believing in God or mocking their religion. A problem that often occurs on spirituality forums is that atheists and skeptics will relentlessly challenge anyone who tires to discuss a spiritual topic, as if they should be required to justify all their spiritual beliefs with objective evidence convincing to the most ardent unbelievers each time they make a post. What inevitably occurs on a forum that allows this to take place, is that every thread eventually degrades into a debate about the existence of God. Thats why the philosophy and spirituality forums were split on this website, with this forum not allowing people to bash the spiritual beliefs of others. Beliefs about hell are themselves spiritual beliefs, not an attack on spiritual beliefs. You may find the concept of hell offensive, but I think it is within the rules of this forum to discuss it. The bible says that unrepentant drunkards, theives, homosexuals, swindlers and greedy people are going to hell as well. Obviously this could be offensive to some, but it constitutes valid subject matter for discussion on this forum, as long as the poster is being respectful and not deliberately trying to pick fights.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: Deviate]
    #18107316 -

I didn't know there was discussion about the rules going on in here but I view it similar to Deviate. I don't have a problem if someone believes in hell and posts what they believe gets you there. That's fine in my opinion. I don't see it as different from a Buddhist posting what they believe will bring suffering. Or anyone posting advice based on their personal spirituality, which is common practice in this forum.

The line is arbitrarily drawn at the point at which it becomes aggressive. Where it's an attack as opposed to a statement of belief. And while I don't read every post that palmersc makes, the ones in this thread seem like statements of belief as well as experiential justifications for those beliefs. That seems like the standard approach to most beliefs expressed in this forum and par for the course. Nothing wrong with it that I can see.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: Kickle]
    #18107570 -

Someone telling you that you're going to hell for who you are or what you do is very much a personal attack.  It's not "legitimate" debate or discussion.  It's hate.

The administrators of LGBT boards, for example, encounter fundamentalist religionist trolls all the time.  The trolls profess to be commenting "in good faith."  They're only there to "share the Word."  To "help."  To bring the "truth."

In reality, it's all about hate.

If you believe that the proposition that users of psychedelics are going to hell constitutes bona fide, good faith discussion, I've got news for you.

They hate you and they relish the fantasy of seeing you burn in hell for all of eternity.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18107599 -

Or perhaps some have found themselves there and can conceive of an afterlife continuation of schizophrenic horror.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18108078 -

Your "news" sounds pretty ugly if I'm being perfectly honest. You're welcome to see it as hate of course. I don't feel hated or threatened in the slightest by someone posting their views on hell in a thread that's about hell.

It's not as if palmersc is spamming threads telling you you're going to hell. He posted his views about hell in a thread specifically asking about personal views on hell vs. not existing. You're making it out to be a personal attack when I have seen no one personally attacked except palmersc.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: CrimpJiggler]
    #18111985 -

I would rather everyone cease to exist and the rest of the Universe go to hell. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Would you rather go to hell or cease to exist? [Re: all this beauty]
    #18116652 -

all this beauty said:
Someone telling you that you're going to hell for who you are or what you do is very much a personal attack.  It's not "legitimate" debate or discussion.  It's hate.

The administrators of LGBT boards, for example, encounter fundamentalist religionist trolls all the time.  The trolls profess to be commenting "in good faith."  They're only there to "share the Word."  To "help."  To bring the "truth."

In reality, it's all about hate.

If you believe that the proposition that users of psychedelics are going to hell constitutes bona fide, good faith discussion, I've got news for you.

They hate you and they relish the fantasy of seeing you burn in hell for all of eternity.


Ironically, the only poster I am detecting hate from in this thread is yourself.

I fail to see the similarly between someone going to a LGBT forum and telling the gays they're going to hell and posting in a thread ABOUT HELL on a SPIRITUALITY forum that psychedelic use constitutes sorcery and can send you to hell. Homosexuality and mushroom use aren't even the same thing because many gay people believe they were born that way and those who persecute them are for the most part, not former homosexuals. If palmersc had not been a tripper himself, I would probably be less inclined to be interested in his views. But as someone who believes they have benefited spiritually from psychedelics (if fact, if not for psychedelics I would almost certainly still be an atheist and not be open to spiritual ideas at all) the question of whether there are "spiritual risks" associated with these drugs is something I have wondered about. It's s a topic that interests me and seems well suited and very appropriate for a forum like this. I tend to believe that God created psychedelics and placed them here for a purpose. Possibly even to help awaken people like me who were committed to logic and reason and would never have been willing to consider anything related to the "spirit world" because of the lack of solid evidence.

As for your assertion that palmersc hates me because I still use mushrooms and wants to see me burn in hell, well I prefer to evaluate people based on their actions and not someone's else's unsubstantiated claims about their motivations. Even if palmersc does hate me, so what? That's his problem and not mine. He hasn't acted disrespectfully toward me, so why should I trouble myself with how he feels about me? As far as I'm concerned, he is entitled to feel whatever way he wishes but as long as he acts respectfully toward other members, he is welcome to post here. I wouldn't want to get banned simply for holding an opinion that is unpopular or offensive to some members.


Edited by Deviate (04/16/13 02:15 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Christ
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 flickedbic 6,065 93 03/04/18 05:19 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Heaven is coming to earth *the sequel*
( 1 2 3 4 ... 51 52 )		 zorbman 184,492 1,020 03/15/18 06:53 PM
by BrendanFlock
* The designated talk-about-the-forum thread
( 1 2 3 all )		 AsanteM 13,652 43 12/16/05 01:16 PM
by MAIA
* Bhakti Yoga leery11 1,396 16 08/06/08 02:51 PM
by lines
* Links Galore! Share your "New Age" sites! c0sm0nautt 1,737 6 03/22/09 11:12 PM
by Scratcher
* what it means to have dominion over the animals
( 1 2 all )		 Deadfrancis 2,350 31 03/19/18 10:47 AM
by Bill_Oreilly
* The Snakes are inside me...
( 1 2 3 all )		 Adamist 14,408 44 02/05/21 10:58 PM
by makalis
* Calling the Ungodly - Good News
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 all )		 fivepointer 16,825 175 10/13/07 09:43 PM
by shakercee

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Asante, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, Northerner, DividedQuantum
3,930 topic views. 0 members, 31 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 15 queries.