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 leery11 I Tell You What!   Registered: 06/25/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 11 years, 6 months |
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Let's talk about Bhakti yoga especially in comparison to meditation
Bhakti is the process of constant reverance towards the Divine it is considered by many authorities to be the highest path, for one who is constantly focused upon a solid conception of love, as an individual Being, is less likely to stray or find futility, than one who conceives God to be formless energy and light. It is said then that the highest personality of God is Krishna and chanting the mantra Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare brings one into full transcendent consciousness into higher dimensions and liberates them completely from samsara this is said in the age of Kali , or great ignorance and suffering, to be the most efficient way of liberation into the stream of divine bliss and ecstasy and transcendence and that while meditation and the paths such as hatha yoga work, they are easier to fall away from, and take much more discipline for the conditioned mind to succeed in I base this knowledge from the writings of Prahbupada in "Baghavad Gita as is" and find the claims very impeccable the Maha mantra has helped me heal a lot of inner dialogue that would only cause me tremendous pain if allowed to ceaselessly manifest itself in my world-views the premise being that since creation exists, and creation comes from human consciousness, human consciousness comes from Creator, and Krishna is all, everything, and the eternal friend of everyone it can be seen in parallels to Jesus' instruction to be "always praying" I find that by constantly focusing on what is good, be it by mantra or by affirmation, I am much happier and more sane, than to let my mind wander and that to try to void my mind into zen, although a very superior state, does not find itself practically attainable in the waking activities, and can lead to falling asleep. does anyone chant mantras , which ones ? What results has it brought you ? in a search for a sane religion I can only conclude to follow a path which believes in God as a Person who is LOVE, and thusly, this path of Hare Krishna does not condemn you if you do not follow it, you are free to create your reality for all eternity taking any form you wish as desires see fit there is no condemnation or "you'd better follow us" it is a very fascinating and intricate read, this commentary of Baghavad-Gita. it has also been stated that Raja or Kriya yoga are the highest ways to God, dealing with direct utilization of kundalini energy however I see a huge drawback, you are only communing with energy, the human's nature requires communion with other beings, and what higher to commune with than God as a person? it would be nice if Jesus were what is said, but the name does not seem to carry auspicious vibrations, rather, malicious ones as, 'twas not the Sages true name, was a name invented by Romans... however to see the tearful and ecstatic devotion invoked in Christians who think of Christ and what he gave for them and to see any people in tearful or ecstatic religious ecstasy, be it thru whrilling in circles or otherwise invokes inspiration in me. Prahbupada has this to say : "Without God-consciousness, it is not religion." and about other paths "the name may be different, but it is still a flower, that is all." --------------------  ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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leery11 I Tell You What! Registered: 06/25/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 11 years, 6 months |
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I wanna also talk about 2 huge desire of mine:
sexual / emotional / love unity with the opposite sex and ecstatic states of consciousness both can fall into the range of coveting or other such tremendously ugly feelings of lack that could lead me to call myself a "hungry-ghost" at often times now, this is a place of psychedelics, I won't dishonor their ability to radical open the doors of love and perception and bliss at the same time, there is a sobriety, and so you way of worship becomes constant use of a plant, of tools some enjoy this, and others say, why can't we always be like this, and why can't we control it ? and so they come to seek out: yoga tai chi martial arts meditation chanting and paths that promise the same results, permanently, controllable now the other thing is that, for the insaitiabley evil desire of a connection to a soul-mate, for the souls who have this and are thrown into a funk of depression about it the only solution seems to be to dedicate themselves to God, or to THEMSELVES, rather than to a particular female entity this has a huge benefit in that though it be possible to have a female (or male) appear as guru, be rather clean and holy and divine inside, and fulfill and heal the gaps and holes in the spirit that we ourselves should be filling on our own it is also equally possible to encounter simple, normal people, and feed off of each other's pain body vibes, get into conflicts, get into dependency now i want everyone and myself to think about what it feels like to be totally complete you don't want someone else to fill you and you have so much to give to everyone who isn't now what if you had that completion, and another shared it with you!!! and what if they didn't ? if you were complete and they weren't, you have a healthy relationship because you cannot lose your peace, and cannot lose your center and they will devote themselves to you in some way conscious or sub, now on the other hand, if you are the one who is incomplete and throwing yourself at the feet of a human they can abandon you and amplify your pain 10,000 fold very quickly, be you male or female it matters not so in anaylinzg the demons that have messed with me since a teen causing depression all around women and or coveting psychedelic consciousness (in the sense of being positive, happy, liberating, and blissful, and SANE) i come to find I need GOD and its not up to me, its up to GOD and GOD is a constant, and the name can change and here I am then thinking the only solution to my pains is surrender of myself to the higher ways of living and here I am with Hare Krishna I hope others can share similar feelings. -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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fazdazzle Wanderer  Registered: 02/17/05 Posts: 1,796 Last seen: 13 years, 9 months |
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There are some who believe in God without form and some who believe in God with form; both are correct. It's as individual as a pair of pants...I lean toward the formless version. I have used the Maha mantra while running to keep my mind from thinking "holy shit I'm really tired!" and after two miles my breathing was only slightly above normal. I tend to use mantras while I'm active...I've never really seen a point in mantras while meditating
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palmersc Stranger   Registered: 02/23/06 Posts: 425 Loc: Arkansas Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Step back for a minute and ask yourself if your posts would make sense to the average person on this planet. Most would have no idea what Prahbupada is talking about.
This is either because he has a superior understanding of what we are doing here on earth, or he is of in la la land. He is either speaking truth or falsehood. Prahbupada is either helping you or hurting you spiritually. I admit to once consuming the teachings of a guy named Adyashanti along my spiritual path. I don't think these teachers are wittingly leading others astray. I think they themselves are incredibly deceived and blinded. If your world view is anything like mine was you believe in reincarnation. The fact that few are embarking on the path that you are is only evidence that few are as spiritually mature as you are for whatever reason. Yet they too, in another lifetime perhaps, will become liberated. This whole concept of liberation is shrouded in mystery and there are few who claim to have acquired it usually through diligent practice. So why not practice and find out for ourselves? The problem is we get so wrapped up in practicing whatever technique they are promoting that we never stop and consider whether or not we are going in the right direction. From your posts I can tell you are a person who hungers for truth, for meaning, and a love for God and others. These things are not reserved for the enlightened elite who make extraordinary spiritual achievements. No, they are gifts that we can receive from God freely.
I will agree with you that God does not expect us to follow any human being. He does require that we follow him. Else there are consequences. A thought may flare up in your mind in rebellion to a God like this. Who is he to tell me how things are supposed to be. A loving God would never dole out any punishment. Let's look at God as our Father. A loving father would certainly correct a wayward son if he was heading for disaster. We can talk more about how God, who is the source of all love, can not love things which are contrary to his nature if you want to. Really I hang around this board sometimes to talk with others who are alienated by western thought and trying out the eastern philosophies in hope that they will deliver on their promises. One thing I find funny is how much of my past study in eastern mysticism was littered with words spoken by Jesus. I never studied the Bible until about a year ago, so I was unaware of how much Jesus' words were twisted in context and meaning. Don't you find it strange that they would use Jesus to support their claims yet discard Jesus' real message. Let's just say Jesus did not advocate there being many paths to truth. He claimed to be the only way and he didn't come to appeal to our rebellious natures. Beware man. There is a lot of spiritual darkness out there and lies peppered with just enough truth to sound convincing. I have been told I was naive for trusting strangers with my soul. We don't live with these guys who spout all these cryptic statements out. Are you sure you want what Prahbupada has?
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fazdazzle Wanderer Registered: 02/17/05 Posts: 1,796 Last seen: 13 years, 9 months |
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After moving away from Christianity and spending a considerable amount of time studying Eastern mysticism, I have come to sort of the middle ground and now I only look for Truth. One thing that has always boggled my mind was the "right path." After my "liberation" from Western thought I immediately took on the idea that there are many paths to God. Although I now don't think that the paths are as cut and dried as I once thought, they are nonetheless quite ubiquitous.
Whenever I think about the correct path and punishment whether distributed by God or a natural service, I kind of shudder. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that if there is a God or higher being or organization to the universe that there would really be *any* specific paths to God. How could there be one path, or even a dozen paths? Not everyone is going to find or even get close to those "righteous enough." What of the poor families which are no more concerned with striking it rich, than they are with becoming enlightened? These folks are just trying to survive! Maybe they'll find it in another lifetime...or maybe they already did? Does illumination have to occur consciously while incarnated? How does a wise and loving grandmother differ from the sage that renounces all and wanders around preaching? Gardening is just as much a path to God as twenty years of mantra. Isn't it bamboo that grows ever so slowly above the soil when it's young, while other plants surpass it with ease? Yet the next year the bamboo is twice as tall as it's surroundings, having spent the previous year growing roots. The "path" isn't always constant nor is it always distinct. One could even say the pathless path is the true path! Essentially, it could be argued that everyone's path is the right one.
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 ChiefGreenLeaf Registered: 01/11/07 Posts: 1,596 |
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I'm digging this thread, so I'll share my opinion.
I think that each path is just a way to get closer to samahdi, cosmic consciousness, whatever you call it. All the different yoga paths and tai chi, kundalini, it all just gets you closer, it doesn't actually get you there. Think about it, what all these have in common is that they promote health. The healthier a person, physically, mentally, and spiritually, the easier they can achieve liberation. You don't see spiritually enlightened people eating junk food and getting trashed every night, it just doesn't happen. So, its health that is the common denominator. I consider being healthy is just living in harmony with God's/nature's design. By being as healthy as you possibly can you can get really close to enlightenment, but it's the individual that makes the final step. This would mean that there are no two paths that are the same. There are trails that work like shortcuts, but each individual must make his/her own journey. All the spiritual advice is just trying to get you there in this life time.
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palmersc Stranger Registered: 02/23/06 Posts: 425 Loc: Arkansas Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Here is my understanding of why there is one way and one God.
God created man and they were rebellious. A remnant of people remained faithful to God's ways and he chose them as a special people he would bless and call out for himself. These were the Israelites. The other people continued in their idol worship and a lot of false religions were established. I believe these false gods to be demons and perhaps the krishna mantra works because there is a demon which goes by that name and has some limited power to deceive. God disciplined the Israelites every time they partook in idol worship, but he still remembered his Covenant with them and preserved a remnant.
This is true. Nobody could perfectly follow God's law so he made way for the people he loved so much. He sent his Son Jesus to fulfill the requirements of the law and die as a sacrifice for humanity. The Bible says, "under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." The way God has made for humanity is through belief in Jesus and the power of the blood he shed for us. We are reconciled to God through faith in his Son. You don't earn anything in God's economy. He gives it to you or else you could boast about your achievements before God. If you are looking for truth there must be lies out there. You can't lie your way to the truth. Thus there are wrong paths. Just by looking at earth we can see that God designed things a certain way. It just plain works, and the more we learn about it, the more we see there are laws at work. God has laws. His spiritual laws are not any more haphazard than the physical laws of nature. They are there for a reason. Either you believe that an awesome God in his wisdom created laws which are good or you put faith in your own judgment of what is good and what's not. All that said, I believe the Bible to be fact and God's way of revealing himself to man. We likely do not agree. I will tell you that the proof for the reliability of the Bible is astounding. No other ancient text has as many verifiable manuscripts as the New Testament at over 20,000 copies. In second place is the Iliad at 643 manuscripts. Things like Aristotle's poetics were written around 343 BC and we have 5 manuscripts dated around 1100 AD. The history of Thucydides (460-400 BC) is available from only 8 manuscripts dated about 1300 years later. With regard to Josephus, we have nine Greek manuscripts of his work dated in the 11th and 12th centuries about 1000 years after they were written. It goes on. The point I'm trying to make about the Bible is that it is the most well documented written account in history by miles. It's not whether the Bible is accurately preserved, it's whether or not the claims it makes are true. That is something that anybody who calls themselves interested in truth should make a point to know for certain before dismissing it. I fell for a lot of propaganda about the Bible and never took it upon myself to seek God as described in the Bible until I was at the end of my rope so to speak. Thank God he was still there for my arrogant self. I am not surprised Christianity is mocked in the United States. I was turned off from it myself and for good reason. It is all but dead in those buildings on Sunday morning. Don't think that Christianity is for the ill educated masses. Great thinkers like Galileo Galilei, Isaac Newton, Michael Faraday, Gregor Mendel, and Max Planck among many many others were Christians. I believe God has made it clear as to what is right and what is wrong. I admit when I first started to think that maybe the Bible was true I was angry. Most of all because I couldn't live the way I wanted to without God interfering. He is patient which is fortunate for us all. Really though. Grab a New Testament and read what Jesus had to say. I was fooling myself when I called myself a seeker of truth with no knowledge of the ministry of Jesus Christ.
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palmersc Stranger Registered: 02/23/06 Posts: 425 Loc: Arkansas Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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I just want to add a little something. I was sitting here thinking about what I would say to myself when I was an unbeliever about a year ago.
I can't really think of anything which would have changed my mind. So I would have probably read through my last post and shrugged it off as some clueless zealot's rant. Maybe you out there reading are not like I was. Maybe you are truly truth seekers. If so I would enjoy going through one of the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John) with you and see how it plays out. I guarantee you won't walk away thinking Jesus was just another wise teacher. He was either insane, a liar, or the Son of God. If you are like me and would prefer to base your opinions on what others say about Jesus then I understand.
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ChiefGreenLeaf Registered: 01/11/07 Posts: 1,596 |
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This is why I don't give Christianity any of my time. It has an agenda. It's like a big club. Whoever doesn't want to join is ridiculed. How can you denounce Krishna while having no understanding of him? Christianity was used by the romans in order to create a cohesive and homogeneous population out of cultures that were radically different. All religions are talking about the same thing... nature. Some just do a better job then others http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L Is it just coincidence that the whole story of Jesus matches what the zodiac does?
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fazdazzle Wanderer Registered: 02/17/05 Posts: 1,796 Last seen: 13 years, 9 months |
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It sounds like palmersc has researched other religions so I doubt he has no understanding of Krishna, it just sounds like he found more comfort in Jesus' teachings. (plz correct me if wrong.)
I do agree though...Christianity needs to dump the condescending attitude if it wants people to find "truth." The thing is, though, 90% of Christians that I know don't want to spread Truth, they want to "save people." I guess both situations assume a "wrongness" but saving just seems so much more malicious. I guess the core of my "instruction" is my intuition, which is fairly easy to follow if given a chance. When I take an extreme interest in something, I have a hard time believing that I am being led astray. I mean, sure we could be being deceived by evil demons all over the place, but...really? Our brains could have information transmitted to them from evil demons as well, as Descartes suggested, but seriously...that is overkill IMO. palmersc, I can tell you are being genuine here, so don't get me wrong, I don't think there is intense deception in Christianity, I just believe that the believe that all is deception outside of Christianity is a bit crooked. The funny thing is, I was thinking about picking up a bible a couple weeks ago to cross reference with what I know. What version would you recommend? Now...I feel bad because we completely derailed leery11's thread. I think if we want to continue this discussion we should start a new thread or move it to PM. The good thing about Bhakti Yoga is it's probably the Yoga used by people not happy with religion. I know some absolutely amazing people who don't practice anything except loving life. In many ways I think life=God. Bhakti at it's most subtle form...
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leery11 I Tell You What! Registered: 06/25/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 11 years, 6 months |
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Christianity is complete demonic terrorism
and the name of Jesus is a demon the name of Rama may also be one now lets do continue this it is very important the name Jesus Christ is a Roman creation, which everyone should know here, the Romans KILLED the TRUTH, and the murderous used their murderous deed to create the religion we know now, as well as confine and control the Bible now the Bible is truth, I completely agree, and that is because Truth is Truth so in this regards, I am interested to hear about what you know to be "true" palmersc I am. But anything that needs to beat you and terrorize you and make you feel like shit is nothing more than rape, whether you call it religion or not, and so am I sinner ? If I believe I am a sinner, I cannot believe I am Christ. Christ told us we are Christ.... I would be Job, and being Job is stupid. the Bible describes the path to Christ-consciousness, no doubt, "be ye therefore perfect as my father." "the kingdom of God is within" "if thine eye be single then they body be full of light." in other words, Jesus had the most high consciousness, and baptized people in it, he didn't say mumbo jumbo prayers about Satan and throw water on you and say "you are baptized..." and nod suggestively at the offering plate he touched his hands and light the fire in your pineal gland and he brought you somewhere up, Godhead, Buddha? Higher ? this is what we are looking at, the tradition of lamp lighting by legitimate spiritual masters, the Essenes lit lamps, so is the truth "say this silly thing about how Jesus is savior or we will torture you?" how can it be! So then what makes the Bible better than a true path of yoga with a true master, if the Bible is an instrument of terrorism? It IS! Have Ghandi's words been used to CAUSE terrorism? No! I wish I could ask Jesus to save me and he would, I used to ask him every day, or spend about 8 hours praying to him. the only thing to be saved from is the terrorist SATANIC God that the religious cults call loving, if they create terror in you, then when you say the Jesus prayer, you feel better and experience ecstasy, and true unconditional love. and it is only this state of true unconditional love which is Good, which is God. and if Jesus will impart that upon me, Lord, let it be so I've had God talk to me thru Christian radio stations, and there's so much greatness in Christianity in the west, yes, amen and halelujah to that, and all the same, so many blind people leading each other, and so many "dead" who are not baptized forever in spirit so tell me , how does the Bible lead into samadhi, it leads into jnana thusly that I've seen. consider this post a prayer for my salvation into love and bliss and freedom. -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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palmersc Stranger Registered: 02/23/06 Posts: 425 Loc: Arkansas Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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Leery, I care about you man. It's not often in my daily life I run into people like us who hunger for truth no matter what the cost. If ever. I am reminded of this parable that describes what truth is to me:
"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field." - Matthew 13:44 I may be schizophrenic. I don't know if it was caused by my heavy usage of psychedelics or if it was my destiny. I do know that I went psychotic thinking I was Jesus and came out of it knowing without a doubt that Jesus was the only way to truth. No doubt. I caught a glimpse of that treasure, and it had nothing to do with who I am. It's all God. That's one of many reasons why I see the quest for samahdi to be counterfeit and dangerous because it is so self centered and not God centered. You still believe that you are a god among gods. I know that to be a lie. Oldest one in the book if you read Genesis 3. Here's where I am now. The trials of life are crashing in on me. Doubts creep in. I remember my agreement with Jesus though. I told him I would follow him and he said he would carry me through anything. So it's sort of like a marriage. I don't believe in divorce and it's a good thing he doesn't either.  We have come to an understanding and I am learning my place in the kingdom. Instead of spending all day meditating on nothingness and emptying my mind, I try to comprehend the cross and remember that: "Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." - Philippians 4:8 I don't want to criticize your usage of the scriptures because I think I know where you get your understanding of Jesus' teachings - butchered and littered in the writings of eastern mystics. Jesus' message was nothing like they would have you believe. We can save that for another discussion if you want to. Leery, I don't understand so many things. Strangely I am content where I never was before. I have not led anyone to a relationship with Jesus by my testimony that I know of. I'm but a year into the faith and I may be in basic training because it has been filled with obstacles. Here's maybe something you could meditate on: Good and Evil - pick a side. The two are most certainly at war here on earth, and we both know which side is superior. There is no neutrality when it comes to the battle for your soul. Live boldly whichever way you choose. The hard part is determining which side is which in such a confused society. My guide is Jesus Christ. There are other choices though.
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moeshroom golden student   Registered: 01/21/04 Posts: 421 Loc: 
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How do you separate Jesus' teachings / the teachings of the Bible from what goes on in churches? I would rather follow a guide without a name than a guide whose name brings together so many lifeless people. -------------------- 
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palmersc Stranger Registered: 02/23/06 Posts: 425 Loc: Arkansas Last seen: 9 years, 4 months |
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This is a very good observation and something I am still struggling with myself. It is very sad. I think of these words from Jesus: "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." - Matthew 5:13-16 There is a lack of salt and light in the church today. You are correct in your assessment. The church is not what God intended it to be and thus the power of the gospel is diminished. Just look at all the denominations out there. Christians can't even stop quarreling amongst themselves. I believe God is raising up a new generation of men and women though. I have met some who are not interested in man's tradition. Not interested in playing church. Old school back to the basics of following Jesus. I think this is what I'm trying to say: A time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." - John 4:23-24 I primarily do my reading from men who lived in the 19th century and before. I am so young in the faith and when I read the likes of Charles Spurgeon, John Wesley, Charles Finney, or George Whitefield I realize they had points which they disagreed on. I try not to get too caught up in picking a side because usually they are not core issues and things which were between them and God. So I seek God for clarification. There are some good preachers today I think but by and large they preach watered down uninspired prosperity messages. I don't blame you for looking elsewhere though. I fear that Jesus has been misrepresented yet again. God have mercy on their souls.
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ChiefGreenLeaf Registered: 01/11/07 Posts: 1,596 |
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And we are just supposed to listen to crazy people? Can you give us anything else besides bible verses or are all other writings demonic? I know so many Christians that say "oh praise the lord he is the light of my heart" and other vague bullshit, quoting bible verses along the way. It's so hypocritical because if they respected god then they would respect his creation, nature. They are some of the most materialistic and wasteful people I know and seem to be apathetic about the health of our planet at all. They don't realize that god is all energy and matter. Therefor to live a life of god is to live a life of love and wisdom. Loving all beings and living wisely in accordance to nature's laws. This is the one, true way.
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leery11 I Tell You What! Registered: 06/25/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 11 years, 6 months |
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pal... that's not true at all, in any way Samadhi is the only fit and appropriate way to heal the vexations and sufferings of the self
"BE STILL AND KNOW THAT I AM GOD" no amount of tomfoolish praying will do it unless the prayer does it. look at the Christians, they aren't peaceful, look at those situated in samadhi...... for contrast. Christ is our true nature. the Bible is great to be used for wisdom and to communicate with Higher-Self, if not the best tool for western men to use as if it were Tarot, (do not object to that word lol) however its not like the Christians say it is, at all, or they would be in Christ-consciousness. their way is a way of terrorism and fear and supplication and veneration of the demiurge, a terrible demon. almost all Christians worship Satan. Matthew 6:34 34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.” this is Samadhi, Satori, Zen, Tao -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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lines Stranger  Registered: 08/06/08 Posts: 1,409 Loc: USA Last seen: 6 years, 6 months |
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Technically bhakti is a form of meditation
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