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palmersc
Stranger


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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7466240 - 09/29/07 01:42 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am quite sensitive to sin now. I have felt God's correction when I think sinful thoughts. Usually it is a tightening in the chest or gut. When I'm really out of line a sort of familiar panic overcomes me until I repent and get back on track.
"Thy rod and staff they comfort me" It is more like a father discipline his child.
I have seen the power of prayer and it is important that I continue to talk with God. I have not audibly heard his voice yet though.
I am dealing with a particular sin in my life right now. Crossdressing. So many other things have been resolved in my life, but this one keeps resurfacing. It is to the point now where I no longer find pleasure in it, but have thoughts about doing it. For a couple of weeks straight I had extreme anxiety which could be resolved by thinking about dressing, or I could pray and have faith in the Lord and make progress.
We reap what we sow. The fruits of repentance are what I am after because I have seen my entire character begin to shift. Ultimately we seek to grow in Jesus' image. If you invest in the flesh, you reap death because the flesh is ephemeral.
My old ways are being left behind as I grow in the Word. The Word is medicine to my being and frequently praying and opening up to random pages produces responses.
I was after something real that I could feel and have a passion for. What I ran into was not what I expected really, and the truth does indeed set you free.
I prayed on how to answer you and opened to this:
22So with you: Now is your time of grief, but I will see you again and you will rejoice, and no one will take away your joy.23In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.
25"Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father. 26In that day you will ask in my name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
Without Jesus we are cut off.
What I'm realizing is that I can't take credit for anything that I did. Why act like I have something that I didn't freely receive?
Edited by palmersc (09/29/07 01:58 AM)
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: palmersc]
#7466265 - 09/29/07 02:01 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am quite sensitive to sin now. I have felt God's wrath when I think sinful thoughts. Usually it is a tightening in the chest or gut. When I'm really out of line a sort of familiar panic overcomes me until I repent and get back on track.
I have seen the power of prayer and it is important that I continue to talk with God. I have not audibly heard his voice yet though.
I am dealing with a particular sin in my life right now. Crossdressing. So many other things have been resolved in my life, but this one keeps resurfacing. It is to the point now where I no longer find pleasure in it, but have thoughts about doing it. For a couple of weeks straight I had extreme anxiety which could be resolved by thinking about dressing, or I could pray and have faith in the Lord and make progress.
How do you know that what you think is wrong? What exactly do you find sinful about cross dressing? And how does praying actually "set you back on track"? To me it sounds like the placebo effect, you think you're doing the "right thing" and then, after you're done, you feel better. What makes you believe that there's somebody out there (god) who wants you to live YOUR life, the what HE wants? It just doesn't make any sense to me. 
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We reap what we sow. The fruits of repentance are what I am after because I have seen my entire character begin to shift. Ultimately we seek to grow in Jesus' image.
And what is Jesus' image? I'm having difficulties understanding the actual description.
The bible itself is very ambiguous and contains lots of contradictions. It is only natural that we find meaning in everything, if we're looking for it. It's called associative mind. Basically everything that we interact with can have a precedent in our memory, so it's really no miracle in that, it's just a brain function.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Booby
Agent Mulder

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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: palmersc]
#7466549 - 09/29/07 07:47 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that crossdressing could be linked with mysticism in some way. Everything appears to be black & white, male & female; and the crossdresser, like the homosexual, is a threat to the two-party system. Altho Crossdressers and homo's are considered an abomination to said 'party system' they are in fact desired (like an obsession). Woodsmen and farmers way up north regularly wear women's stockings next to their skin because it keeps their legs and feet warmer than socks alone. Toenail polish originally may have had something to do with blocking the air supply from fungus. So if you feel an unknown pressure to paint your toenails and wear stockings I think you can do so with a clear conscience, and acquiescence from above.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Booby]
#7466775 - 09/29/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mysticism isn't all Black and White, Monotheism is.
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palmersc
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7466788 - 09/29/07 09:42 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Trust me, it's much easier to indulge in a fantasy to relieve the anxiety then it is to lean on God and suffer for it.
Crossdressing is stated as being wrong in the Bible. Apart from that it is direct rebellion against the way I was created. I'm a man. You're a woman, and we each have our own roles that God intended us to have.
I have had these thoughts since I was a kid. It seems that I inherited them much the way gays claim to be born that way. For years I chose to indulge in these thoughts. It's a choice I made. They grew in strength and soon I found myself desiring female hormones. This is where I was unwilling to go unless it was God's will, so I picked up the pace on my quest for truth.
I'm trying to let you know how I know apart from scripture what I'm doing is what God wants. I put my faith in finding God. Whatever that be. I ran into the same thing over and over. Jesus is the way.
I'd really be interested in speaking with somebody who has had a psychotic break from reality who has been reconciled through faith in Jesus.
I was in this mental institution for a month, so I may not be the most credible person in many's eyes. All I know is what it feels like to be pursued by the CIA. To have a hit man sitting right next to me. I know what it feels like to have all my friends and family taken away for good, but faith in Jesus kept me alive.
I ran into people who were possessed and were really bent on keeping me there. My psychiatrist certainly did not want me to leave. I escaped.
I remember being out in San Francisco and being able to jump into a flow where I could just follow it and I would inevitably end up where I needed to go. This flow operated on blindly taking steps of faith without fear. But in order to get there, I think you must be willing to not take responsibility for your actions. Perhaps this is the flow that serial killers use and get away with everything until they get scared or lose faith whatever is behind the flow.
Anybody who knows what the flow is is likely a very dangerous person. I was on a path which was quite evil. But in my heart I never lost faith, and every time I was confronted by a situation where I felt overwhelmed, I was comforted by somebody with the Gospel.
So I suffered some more every time I did not fully believe what they were telling me, until finally I was at the end of my rope. You don't know what the end of the rope looks like till you're there. So I chose life through Jesus.
So what it comes down to is we have a choice. Do we want to take responsibility for our choices or not? Are we willing to suffer the consequences? It is quite REAL. The presence of God demands the utmost respect. One day we will all have to answer to God because choosing to ignore him doesn't make him less real.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. - Luke 17:23
The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. —Matthew 13:44,
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stellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths



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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7466804 - 09/29/07 09:48 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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MushroomTrip said: Yeah well I'm not really buying that demons - angels stuff either.
Well I said it was an archetype, at least you could see that? Have you read up on what an archetype is?
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MushroomTrip said: I don't think that those who try imprint fear and guilt are "evil"... they are weak and scared themselves.
Well I don't either. But the army, the dynamic that was involved in keeping them together, was evil. Not the people themselves. I would even go so far as to say that the demons - or anything else, for that matter - isn't intrinsically evil. It's the attitude of mind that is.
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MushroomTrip said: If we keep on continuing is seeing this world as a battle between evil and good we'll never be able to enjoy our lives.
Amen, I learned that a long time ago.
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MushroomTrip said: I think that each of us need a good dose and maybe even a OD on fear, so we never go there again. I know I experienced this anxiety when I was a child, because my parents (especially my mother) are convinced Christians, and hearing all that bull shit, seeing her waste her life on fear, made me feel it too. Until I got sick of it. Simple as that
Agreed. It depends on what one is fearful about, though. Knowing that one has tendencies to hurt others can cause fear in oneself, but relying on God's love can negate that. There are simply two kinds of fear. The first is the fear of being punished because of some arbitrary whim, the second is fear because one knows that from an honest standpoint, they are likely to do something rash and violent in their weaker moments. There is the fear (which is comforting in a deep sense, since one is able to finally realize the truth about themselves and do something about it) which will be eradicated when that person finally lives to be true to themselves and others and God. Perfect love casts out all fear.
-------------------- "I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou
 "To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald
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palmersc
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7466826 - 09/29/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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sorry didnt answer your questions:
We live in a culture which is so desensitized to sin, that it can't even feel it. I doubted the existence of sin. But we ALL are hardwired with the law.
The process of coming into alignment with Jesus' character is not something we can do on our own. It is God working through us. Something I don't know a whole lot about yet.
It seems we were both in similar circumstances. Completely unwilling to consider Christianity based on what we've heard about it. If you actually got down on your knees and prayed and asked the Lord to humble you and allow you to see the truth and were persistent you will find the truth.
The Parable of the Persistent Widow
1Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, 'Grant me justice against my adversary.'
4"For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, 'Even though I don't fear God or care about men, 5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won't eventually wear me out with her coming!' "
6And the Lord said, "Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"
If even an unjust judge grants her request, how much more will a righteous God answer?
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper




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Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: palmersc]
#7467016 - 09/29/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know this wasn't directed at me BUT
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Trust me, it's much easier to indulge in a fantasy to relieve the anxiety then it is to lean on God and suffer for it.
Don't you think you're being a bit bias here? That's kind of insulting saying that everyone else's beliefs, or not even beliefs, fuck beliefs... everyone else's way of life is subordinate or a fantasy as to your perfectly chiseled one??
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Crossdressing is stated as being wrong in the Bible. Apart from that it is direct rebellion against the way I was created. I'm a man. You're a woman, and we each have our own roles that God intended us to have.
I don't know how old you are but 'God' never wrote down anything about how anyone has to be anything. There's worlds out there that you probably couldn't begin to comprehend and what, you're going to come with your ancient scripture and tell them the 'voice' of God? HAHAHAha, either way, no one will be able to tell you anything because that damn book has all these safeguards against what 'others' might say tosway you away. So, while you've found something that may be great for "You", that's all it ever will be. Some people need religion to stay strong and there's a vast many that don't. Call them sinners and try to convert them but why. Why in the name of everything conceivable would you want everyone to be the same? To me, it sounds like a common thing to relate everyone but everyone isn't the same. Everyone should find out who they really are. Rest your fantasy demons aside, not everyone has the exact same Black and White outlook as you do.
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If even an unjust judge grants her request, how much more will a righteous God answer?
I never knew God was righteous. Since when does God have to be righteous? Why can't everything be the way it is?
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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palmersc
Stranger


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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Cracka_X]
#7467184 - 09/29/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cracka_X said: There's worlds out there that you probably couldn't begin to comprehend
OK. Navigate through them at your own peril. To me is sounds like you are doing it while denying God. These worlds are available to those who think themselves to be a god. If you're looking for eternal life, you're wasting your time in Disney World. Enjoy it while it lasts.
It seems pretty popular to say we need to find "our own" "truths" and leave others alone. Real Christians are so bold with "their truth" for a reason. There is no gray area anymore. No more confusion. It's not blind faith.
When they struck gold out in California, people ran out to see for themselves. Here I'm saying look here, and the response is we'll find our own gold. What are you looking for? When you find it how will you know?
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Cracka_X said: Some people need religion to stay strong and there's a vast many that don't
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
If I would have gotten a response like this earlier in the year I'd of laughed it off too man. I certainly didn't decide to become more teachable so I don't know how it works.
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fivepointer
newbie
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This is a reply to stellar renegade.
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Romans 2:9-12 is saying just because you are a Jew God does not consider you any higher or lower than the Gentile, both are held to the same standard, equal before the law. This is quite an offense to the Jews who thought God dealt with them differently than Gentiles.
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Romans 2:12-15 Those Gentiles that had never heard the law still have no excuse since they by nature have a knowledge of right from wrong as witnessed by how they act. The Jews who were hearers of the law thought they where justified because God had given them the law, and God held them apart from the Gentile nations. Paul is writing that if a Gentile were to perfectly obey the law they would be justified (of course this is impossible, he is speaking hypothetically). Jews considered Gentiles to be like dirty animals, so this is a big statement against the special standing of a person just because they are a Jew. These verses are not saying that unregenerate men can know God. All are without excuse, either by the law of the Jews, or of the law of the Nations.
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Romans 10 Paul is saying the Jews had a sincere zeal for the law and diligently tried to keep it. However they completely missed the gospel because since they are ignorant of the perfect righteous standard demanded by God. Sincerity without truth is useless. Christ is the end of the law for all those believing, meaning that only by Christ's righteousness alone can anyone be justified.
stellar renegade said: "I believe that the grace of God is completely unconditional, and that His salvation is a mystery which is beyond human comprehension. He saves people by means of their actions, by recreating them in the depths of their heart and creating pure motives in them. Like you said, faith is a sign of salvation.
However, the difference for me is that I believe salvation is for everyone. God loves everyone, just as Jesus told Nicodemus, a member of the Sanhedrin! He even loves the religiously sanctimonious, though not in the way they are looking for (godly approval). His love is humbling."
If God loves everyone without exception then grace cannot be unconditional. Since all are loved equally what makes the difference between salvation and damnation? It must be MERITS. The deciding factor of justification becomes what deeds have you performed to activate the salvation. The true gospel does not permit this. You must destroy total depravity in order for this scheme to work. Since if man was totally dead than he couldn't do anything and the scheme fails. God has those He loves and those He hates. Many verses support this.
You quote Romans 5:18-19 and assert that "Did you catch that? The same referents who had fallen through Adam, every single one of them, will be saved through Christ.". So you believe in a universal salvation? That is quite impossible to reconcile with scripture. Romans 5 refers to the Federal headship of all in Adam, and all in Christ. The "all" is not every single person who ever lived. The "all" are all those respectively represented by either Adam or Christ. Since all are condemned in Adam, likewise all who Christ represented are made righteous. People are condemned or justified in thier respective heads, not by personal merits.
You quote Romans 11 to try to justify that God wants to justify everyone without exception. God has blinded the Jews so that the gospel might go out into the Nations. It is God who acts in blinding unblinding. Also the Gentiles had no gospel revelation and were blind previous to the gospel age. It is God who makes these things happen. "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"
Luke 10:20-21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
Jesus thanks the Father because gospel truth is either hidden or revealed according to the will of God.
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Booby
Agent Mulder

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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: palmersc]
#7467473 - 09/29/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
palmersc said:
I suffered some more every time I did not fully believe what they were telling me,
You suffer for not believing and you suffer even tho you do believe.
I've come across this perspective before, that suffering is 'the object'. I've certainly seen that perspective pitched more than once on this board.
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Booby
Agent Mulder

Registered: 09/14/05
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Middleman]
#7467493 - 09/29/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: Mysticism isn't all Black and White, Monotheism is.
I admitted to myself that "Treat people the way you want to be treated" contains the element of 'intimidation', and I suppose that opens the door for intimidation as a recourse. You may be right about Monotheism being black& white.
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: fivepointer]
#7467559 - 09/29/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The scripture declares all ungodly and all fall short of the glory of God. It declares man to be dead in transgressions and blind to God's standard of righteousness. It also says man is blind to these truths due to his innate state of spiritual depravity. The good news is to the ungodly, for those who are made to see their own unrighteousness before the unbending law of God. The good news is only to those who know themselves to be undone and ruined as unrighteous and without hope. The only way to know this is by the convicting power wrought by the Spirit of God on the soul of the dead wretch.
No you're wrong, this is calvinism. They believe that only God can convict a person of sin and bring them back to life, and that sinners are completely helpless to turn to God. This is wrong. The bible teaches that man cannot come to God all on his own, but he can recognise righteousness in his heart in the conscience that God has given him, and then he will be drawn to God by the holy Spirit.
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This is the first step in the conversion of the unrighteous. You are not able to see yourself as ungodly.
You most surely can. People do it all the time.
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But the good news is to the ungodly. God convicts the ungodly so that the good news can apply in their consciences.
This is a lie. God convicts the ungodly both through his dealings with man, and through the conscience that God has given them. Man is not helpless to turn to God.
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He is completely sovereign in bringing the spiritually dead to spiritual life. This quickening comes with power, and the Spirit and the Word of truth is believed.
no, the Spirit comes when the word of truth is believed. The word of Truth IS Spirit, and he dwells in those who receive the Truth.
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Grace overcomes all transgressions. Grace is the good news. Grace is forgiveness. Grace is love. Grace is gentle. The converted are shown God's grace and are thankful for it. They are completely undeserving of it and they know it. Life is through the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone. May you one day know what I am saying. May God bless all those reading this, through Jesus Christ's precious blood alone.
Indeed, may you know also, may you know the grace of God which perfects in righteousness those who are called , not by faith alone but by faith and works.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: fivepointer]
#7467619 - 09/29/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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You have a problem with the author
I thought an "author" was the person who penned the words. Of course this is hardly true. You imaginary God was not the author of anything.
But of course it's pretty hard for non-existant entities to actually write anything.
This is why I said in my first post this is a good forum for this non-sense. You can pretend to your hearts content and no one will point out that you do not engage in rational or intelligent thinking.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Icelander]
#7467733 - 09/29/07 04:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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icelander, that kind of attack does not delve into rational or intelligent thinking either. You only presuppose God is not real and unrealistically compare God to the tooth fairy without examining the evidence or the possibilty for God.
If you're not willing to consider that there is spiritual evidence, then noone can ever convince you, even if the evidence is right in front of you face.
Romans 1:20
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7467743 - 09/29/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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You haven't a clue what you are talking about. I was raised Baptist. My father was a deacon, I attended a Baptist Bible Collage for awhile. I worked with a street ministry and other shit. I have spent many more years considering this question then you have. So you making assumptions is the real problem here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (09/29/07 04:50 PM)
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Visionary Tools



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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Icelander]
#7467750 - 09/29/07 04:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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This sort of thread makes me want to overdose on heroin. I don't want to be in a world with people like you, who have nothing better to do than try really hard to believe that a book was written by anything other than human kind.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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I think you mean to reply to someone other then me,as I certainly agree, except about the OD as it really doesn't matter what others think or believe as long as you really believe in your own ability to THINK FOR YOURSELF
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (09/29/07 05:13 PM)
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Icelander]
#7467897 - 09/29/07 05:59 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nevertheless, presuppositions have no place in a conversation or debate. If you have them, you must explain them. Blanket statements like "God is the same as santa clause" don't add anything worthwhile to a debate or discussion.
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Booby
Agent Mulder

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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7467905 - 09/29/07 06:02 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Debate is for the philosophy forum. Here anyone can suppose anything and not defend it.
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