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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Cracka_X]
#7455008 - 09/26/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know this is the one forum where people can express and discuss their beliefs without fear of critiscism, but evangelism should not be allowed, imo.
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hummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch



Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Middleman]
#7455925 - 09/26/07 02:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: I know this is the one forum where people can express and discuss their beliefs without fear of critiscism, but evangelism should not be allowed, imo.
How do you define evangelism? Is it only christian based conversion attempts that you would wish to ban? Here is the definition of evangelism. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/evangelism This means that all attemps to convince anybody of virtually anything should be banned. Is this how you intended it?
-------------------- You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events. When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: hummermania00]
#7456158 - 09/26/07 03:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yah ok, I knew someone would say that, it just seems Xtians are the only ones who actually do it.
I know there can't be any double standards in here, I recently closed a thread where people were criticizing Satanists.
I just take offense to the above "Ungodly" inference...
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper




Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: hummermania00]
#7456247 - 09/26/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I guess it'd be an all or none case.
I don't think anyone else tries to be "evangelical", in the bad way many see it, as much as christians.
Fivepointer doesn't want to debate or discuss recent findings in his journey through life. To the contrary, he just spews biblical statements and quotes scripture as proof as him being right and anyone against him as wrong.
People usually discuss certain experiences rather than holding them as "The Truth"
maybe i'm wrong but that's what I see.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Middleman]
#7456251 - 09/26/07 03:53 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Personally, I'm just fine with being "ungodly." I mean, it's kinda hard to take offense when you are deemed un-something you don't believe exists.
Hey, you are unEasterBunnylike! And you, you over there, you are unLochNessMonstery! Your behavior is very unSantaClausy...you're not going to the North Pole when you die, and you'll get a lump of coal in your stocking! 
Even if you do believe in God, how many people believe that some random fundamentalist on an internet forum has the inside scoop on what God likes and dislikes?
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Veritas]
#7456265 - 09/26/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, I know God exists... She lives in a tent in my backyard and she smells like patchouli.
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper




Registered: 01/25/03
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Veritas]
#7456269 - 09/26/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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hahahaha true
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Middleman]
#7456329 - 09/26/07 04:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's Goddess...she's pretty cool, though I do not share her taste in perfume.
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
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Quote:
stellar renegade said: fivepointer, to put it short and sweet, I think your views are more extreme than the honest impression that reality lays upon us. I know this isn't the philosophical forum so I'm not debating, but it just appears to me that you're holding onto certain experiences which appear to be very legitimate (at least I have found them to be so) and yet believing as if they're the only kind which exist.
Words are just expressions, and concepts are fluid. I believe that God is much more loose with these outward manifestations of salvation than even most people would believe. To God, salvation is in the heart (as you, fivepointer, believe), but not everybody's heart is like an on/off switch. If you'll notice in Jesus' ministry there were varying degrees of attraction to him. There was a very real dynamic of attraction vs. repulsion going on, and it is true that people could not both follow him and not follow him, but at the same time I think that many people wanted to follow him but didn't/couldn't bring themselves to, and even the Pharisees could, at times, see their sin, even though they did not repent of it. Also, disciples left him at varying points because they could accept some things he said but not others. So that's why I can't bring myself to believe precisely the same way as you do. Although, I did used to feel that way, to be honest.
Also, I believe that salvation is entirely by grace but that most people will not understand that subtle dynamic unless it's embodied in some visual act of repentance. The problem is in making sure that people know it's not because of the act that they are saved, but that their act is (if required of, or volunteered by them) a sign of their repentance.
Anyway, I think you are on the right path and basically have the right motivations about all of this.
Your question on Romans 2 had me thinking. I think you are trying to say Romans 2 nullifies the doctrine of total depravity. In the statement above you say salvation is a matter of the heart. So I'm guessing you believe unregenerate man has some divine light apart from regeneration, and can know God simply from this residual light. Correct me if I'm reading you wrong. If this is what you are saying then I totally disagree with it. Unregenerate man had NO LIGHT in his heart, in fact it is described as spiritually dead. He needs a heart transplant, a whole new heart, and he can not do this on his own.
Next you say you believe in grace. Now let me ask you some questions about this. Do you believe in unconditional election / reprobation? (that election is not based on foreseen acts, but only on God's will prior to any acts?) Do you believe in a hypothetical universal atonement that makes every person potentially savable if they perform certain actions? Do you believe a person can "fall from grace" and loose salvation? I ask because most people I meet say "grace" but when questioned they don't believe in the true grace of the Bible.
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fivepointer
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Icelander]
#7456496 - 09/26/07 04:49 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Especially his belief that all babies that have not received salvation by accepting Christ are going to burn for eternity in hell.
You question has a hidden assumption in it. That salvation is obtained by the act of acceptance. I do not agree with this notion. Salvation is obtained by the sovereign grace of God, and observed by faith. The faith does not obtain, nothing a sinner does is pleasing to God, not even faith. Saving faith is the gift of God, it obtains nothing, but observes what has been given.
As far as babies go, all born are born into a common fall, including babies. All are imputatively condemned in Adam. By birth in Adam all are born with a fallen nature, and are condemned by imputation. Just as the saved are imputed righteous in Christ, not because they are righteous, but by Christ's righteousness they have Christ's imputed righteousness.
So if someone dies, whether a baby, or anyone else, without being converted and coming into a belief of the truth, we know God never intended to save them. God decrees the salvation and damnation of every person prior to any actions committed by them.
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper




Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: fivepointer]
#7456586 - 09/26/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
So if someone dies, whether a baby, or anyone else, without being converted and coming into a belief of the truth, we know God never intended to save them. God decrees the salvation and damnation of every person prior to any actions committed by them.
God sounds like an adolescent kid. Or a ruthless king of some sort.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: fivepointer]
#7456726 - 09/26/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have a short and clear question for you: Will pope Benedict make it to heaven?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Booby
Agent Mulder

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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7456856 - 09/26/07 06:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whose heaven? "If you are not with me you are against me" could be the basis for "You will be thrown into a lake of fire." I'm sure the Christian God is quite jealous and wants to retain as many subjects as possible.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Booby]
#7456919 - 09/26/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well that was kind of my point
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Booby]
#7456936 - 09/26/07 06:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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breaking news: heaven is a state of mind that can be realized by anybody at any given moment right here on planet earth.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate



Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7456957 - 09/26/07 06:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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fivepointer
newbie
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7456961 - 09/26/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: I have a short and clear question for you: Will pope Benedict make it to heaven?
If he remains in the false gospel of Roman Catholicism, no. Perhaps one day God will grant him gospel repentance and be converted.
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fivepointer
newbie
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Booby]
#7456968 - 09/26/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Booby said: Whose heaven? "If you are not with me you are against me" could be the basis for "You will be thrown into a lake of fire." I'm sure the Christian God is quite jealous and wants to retain as many subjects as possible.
He retains as many subjects as He has decreed to retain.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7456979 - 09/26/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'shua said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom of heaven." - Gospel of Thomas
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fivepointer
newbie
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Middleman]
#7457018 - 09/26/07 06:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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The "Gospel of Thomas" is not scripture.
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