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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7467956 - 09/29/07 06:23 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
Nevertheless, presuppositions have no place in a conversation or debate. If you have them, you must explain them. Blanket statements like "God is the same as santa clause" don't add anything worthwhile to a debate or discussion.




Ever notice that the original post is nothing but presupposition?:tongue:

I never knew that God and Santa were the same but it makes sense.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Registered: 09/24/07
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Booby]
    #7467988 - 09/29/07 06:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Even if that's true, a brief explanation would be proper.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7467997 - 09/29/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:
This is probably the funniest thing I read today


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: palmersc]
    #7468031 - 09/29/07 06:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Trust me, it's much easier to indulge in a fantasy to relieve the anxiety then it is to lean on God and suffer for it.

Crossdressing is stated as being wrong in the Bible. Apart from that it is direct rebellion against the way I was created. I'm a man. You're a woman, and we each have our own roles that God intended us to have.

I have had these thoughts since I was a kid. It seems that I inherited them much the way gays claim to be born that way. For years I chose to indulge in these thoughts. It's a choice I made. They grew in strength and soon I found myself desiring female hormones. This is where I was unwilling to go unless it was God's will, so I picked up the pace on my quest for truth.

I'm trying to let you know how I know apart from scripture what I'm doing is what God wants. I put my faith in finding God. Whatever that be. I ran into the same thing over and over. Jesus is the way.




This doesn't make sense in so many ways :rolleyes:
Ok... for the sake of the argument, let's say that god exists.
And that he really doesn't want you to cross dress. Though you'd think that someone as evolved and gos is presumed to be, would be over this sexual blaming phase.
Well he created all, he gave us Free Will and left us with all the possible choices open for us on the table.
Now hare he comes and days: you'd better not choose alternative B, C, D and basically any other than A. Otherwise, you'll have to pay. I'll punish you with hell. :nono: Believe me, it's for your own good.
This sounds like a gangsta god if you ask me. :shrug: Asking for protection tax. Meaning he's the one who offers you "evil", and he's also the one who "saves" you from it. :what:
I mean, what more can you want? Here you have god for you. How can he be the good and loving god when he behaves like a total bitch?
Can you please explain this to me?

Quote:

So what it comes down to is we have a choice. Do we want to take responsibility for our choices or not? Are we willing to suffer the consequences? It is quite REAL. The presence of God demands the utmost respect. One day we will all have to answer to God because choosing to ignore him doesn't make him less real.




Well, this relates to the above questions.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7468046 - 09/29/07 07:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Well I said it was an archetype, at least you could see that? Have you read up on what an archetype is?




Yes, I know what an archetype is, that's exactly who I specified they're not real. They are projections of our own mind. Many people take them for real.

Quote:

Well I don't either. But the army, the dynamic that was involved in keeping them together, was evil. Not the people themselves. I would even go so far as to say that the demons - or anything else, for that matter - isn't intrinsically evil. It's the attitude of mind that is.




The army is the generic name for a group of people who are trained to fight. Therefore, you can say that the army is the people... it doesn't make any sense to state that the army people are not evil, but the army is, since army is just a symbol representing those people.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Registered: 09/24/07
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Icelander]
    #7468060 - 09/29/07 07:12 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I recognize that, but I recognized it as an opening statement, whereupon he would explain more (when people challange him).


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7468070 - 09/29/07 07:16 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I by no way recognise this guy as Christian, and I really don't like to fight other people's battles, so I'm out of here.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7468092 - 09/29/07 07:25 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

:bye:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7468110 - 09/29/07 07:31 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
I by no way recognise this guy as Christian, and I really don't like to fight other people's battles, so I'm out of here.




Take your rotten gospel of salvation by works with you.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: fivepointer]
    #7468121 - 09/29/07 07:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Hit the road Jack, and don't you come back no more no more :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinestellar renegade
explorer ofmetaphysicaldepths
Male


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7468242 - 09/29/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Well I don't either. But the army, the dynamic that was involved in keeping them together, was evil. Not the people themselves. I would even go so far as to say that the demons - or anything else, for that matter - isn't intrinsically evil. It's the attitude of mind that is.




The army is the generic name for a group of people who are trained to fight. Therefore, you can say that the army is the people... it doesn't make any sense to state that the army people are not evil, but the army is, since army is just a symbol representing those people.



No, I would question the linguistics of that.  The word 'army' could also refer to the actions of that body of people and their state of mind, as you are talking about both a group of people with the presupposition of a unifying factor, and an army, which has a specific agenda or at least a unifying purpose.

Anyway, at least you know what I mean. :wink:


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Offlinestellar renegade
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Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 201
Loc: carrollton, tx
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: fivepointer]
    #7468336 - 09/29/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Romans 2:9-12 is saying just because you are a Jew God does not consider you any higher or lower than the Gentile, both are held to the same standard, equal before the law. This is quite an offense to the Jews who thought God dealt with them differently than Gentiles.



And God doesn't consider saved people any higher or lower than unsaved. No one inherently deserves anything.

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Romans 2:12-15 Those Gentiles that had never heard the law still have no excuse since they by nature have a knowledge of right from wrong as witnessed by how they act. The Jews who were hearers of the law thought they where justified because God had given them the law, and God held them apart from the Gentile nations. Paul is writing that if a Gentile were to perfectly obey the law they would be justified (of course this is impossible, he is speaking hypothetically). Jews considered Gentiles to be like dirty animals, so this is a big statement against the special standing of a person just because they are a Jew. These verses are not saying that unregenerate men can know God. All are without excuse, either by the law of the Jews, or of the law of the Nations.



How can a person turn to God without becoming good?

Quote:

fivepointer said:
If God loves everyone without exception then grace cannot be unconditional. Since all are loved equally what makes the difference between salvation and damnation? It must be MERITS. The deciding factor of justification becomes what deeds have you performed to activate the salvation. The true gospel does not permit this. You must destroy total depravity in order for this scheme to work. Since if man was totally dead than he couldn't do anything and the scheme fails. God has those He loves and those He hates. Many verses support this.



What on earth...? The first statement doesn't make any sense to me, and the rest is a straw man. The very last statement is just... errgh.

Quote:

fivepointer said:
You quote Romans 5:18-19 and assert that "Did you catch that? The same referents who had fallen through Adam, every single one of them, will be saved through Christ.". So you believe in a universal salvation? That is quite impossible to reconcile with scripture. Romans 5 refers to the Federal headship of all in Adam, and all in Christ. The "all" is not every single person who ever lived. The "all" are all those respectively represented by either Adam or Christ. Since all are condemned in Adam, likewise all who Christ represented are made righteous. People are condemned or justified in thier respective heads, not by personal merits.



If you say so.

Quote:

fivepointer said:
You quote Romans 11 to try to justify that God wants to justify everyone without exception. God has blinded the Jews so that the gospel might go out into the Nations. It is God who acts in blinding unblinding. Also the Gentiles had no gospel revelation and were blind previous to the gospel age. It is God who makes these things happen. "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"



I'm not sure I ever want to talk to you again.

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Luke 10:20-21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Jesus thanks the Father because gospel truth is either hidden or revealed according to the will of God.



...to babes, not to scholars. To children with a simple heart, not to those who make up complicated doctrine to twist the words of scripture.

I'm out, man. I'm just, totally, out.

We can't even debate this here, and what you're saying, it all adds up to bunk.

Have fun. Later.


--------------------
"I threw a small stone down at the reflection of my image in the water, and it altogether disappeared. I burst as it shattered through me, like a bullet through a bottle... and I'm expected to believe that any of this is real!" -mewithoutYou

"To believe in the wide-awake real, through all the stupefying, enervating, distorting dream: to will to wake, when the very being seems athirst for godless repose: these are the broken steps up to the high fields where repose is but a form of strength, strength but a form of joy, joy but a form of love." -George MacDonald


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Offlinefivepointer
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Posts: 1,428
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: stellar renegade]
    #7468437 - 09/29/07 09:07 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

And take your universalism with you on your way out.


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Offlinepalmersc
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7468452 - 09/29/07 09:15 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I am still new in the word, so I have much to learn. What I do know is that it is real, but this was revealed to me in a way I can't describe. I need to work on relaying the message.

I may not be a good representative of God right now, but know that He loves those who want to get to know him. He demands respect though. Nothing wrong with questioning it.

We must understand that we are not dreaming up some ideal God. This is the God of the universe. He is holy, perfect and justified in all He does. His wisdom is far beyond ours.

I'm not sure how to make you feel good about being on the receiving end of God's wrath. There's just no getting around it, so it is wise to heed to His warnings.

I'm not just making stuff up, but I still don't expect anybody to change their minds. May God present Himself to those willing to hear.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: fivepointer]
    #7468537 - 09/29/07 09:42 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
And take your universalism with you on your way out.




Such a hateful Christian. :nono:
Or is it a tautology? :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Posts: 5,908
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7468585 - 09/29/07 09:54 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
as long as they don't try to convert others. This is what really sucks.




Resistance is futile.....    :borg:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7468624 - 09/29/07 10:09 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Viva la revolution amigo  :pirate:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7468657 - 09/29/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

oh, the internet is beautiful. where this thread went is awesome!


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7468694 - 09/29/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Sail away :smirk:



Or something :smirk:

:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Calling the Ungodly - Good News [Re: fivepointer]
    #7470530 - 09/30/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
I by no way recognise this guy as Christian, and I really don't like to fight other people's battles, so I'm out of here.




Take your rotten gospel of salvation by works with you.




Now, now fivepointer. Lets not get huffy.:rofl2::hellfire::rofl2::hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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