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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9879100 -

I quote my previous post:
"Please refute.  According to quantum mechanics with out an observer there would just be this expanding super position of possibilities with nothing definite ever actually happening."

If there is nothing definite ever actually happening, then there is no universe


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: deCypher]
    #9879105 -

My thought just came up on dinner

thanks for the food for thought

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9879141 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
And what an easily-refuted point it is.


You still provided no evidence what so ever to refute my point....


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9879279 -

"The point of the argument is that the act of us being able to be aware of the external world allows it to be there."

Its astounding to me that some have never considered points like these to be so blatantly odd that it is obvious there is something missing behind the conclusion.

First off, our perception is 100% reality.  It doesn't change it, its a part of it.  Want to argue with this point?  Show me a single part of your perception that is not real.  Optical illusions may fool people, but how people are fooled itself is a result of reality.

Secondly, what is "us"?

Edited by xFrockx (02/27/09 07:55 PM)

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9879316 -

Alright, I will play your moronic game.

1. The universe does not exist because we are not observing it.
2. The universe does not exist because we are not observing it.
3. The universe does not exist because we are not observing it.
4. The universe does not exist because we are not observing it.
5. The universe does not exist because we are not observing it.
6. The universe does not exist because we are not observing it.
.
.
.
Infinity + 1. The universe does not exist because we are not observing it.

Where/when do the observers come into play?


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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9879337 -

I think a truer way to go might be to say

"The universe exists and we think we percieve it but jokes on us because we are it"

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9879379 -

xFrockx said:
First off, our perception is 100% reality.  It doesn't change it, its a part of it.  Want to argue with this point? 


No its not.  A typical human eye will respond to wavelengths from about 380 to 750 nm.  We are not able to see UV light, infared light so on and so forth, our perception of reality is the perception that has got us this far in time as evolving organism.  Our perception is not 100% reality, it is our perception. 

AGAIN!  According to quantum mechanics with out an observer there would just be this expanding super position of possibilities with nothing definite ever actually happening.  What you people are failing to wrap your brain around here is that with out an observer, something cannot be in a single state.  It just has probability of being in a state.  This is quantum mechanics folks, anyone ever read up on it?  I feel like im the only one :sad:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9879407 -

What is the eye made of?  Read the part after you quoted and you will find I already showed you how you are wrong.

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9879418 -

Nothing ever happened then humans appeared.

There was no dark side of the moon until we looked.

Makes sense...


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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9879425 -

"No its not"

Take a minute to realize what you said no to.

I said that our perception is a part of reality and then you said "no."

Do you REALLY agree with yourself there?  Are you unreal?  Do your perceptions come from some unreal thing?  What is an unreal thing?  See my point yet?  I can continue.

Edited by xFrockx (02/27/09 08:16 PM)

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9879435 -

The universe is a word which defines the whole world as a system.

There isn't necessarily a system.
Being rigorous tells you that there is something, although we will never know what.

We make the "what". Beyond the "what" is pure nonsense, no language, no logic.



Reality is the "standard". While tripping, while dreaming, you might think you have a past, present, future, and context. What makes you think that this state of consciousness is reality?
There might be no such thing as a standard.
Our world is not made of perceptions, but is rather made of interpretations.


Very nice video. : )

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9879437 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Nothing ever happened then humans appeared.

There was no dark side of the moon until we looked.

Makes sense...


Einstein didn't like it either.

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Sventington]
    #9879453 -

That's because its totally nonsense (not that that is a bad thing, even nonsense can be useful).  Its the result of science trying to grasp the whole from within.  Like a drop of water fully describing all water.  It doesn't have to.

Edited by xFrockx (02/27/09 08:22 PM)

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9879466 -

"Our world is not made of perceptions, but is rather made of interpretations." 

Well that's yours.

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9879471 -

It's not.

It's precisely science saying we are limited to our brain.

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Sventington]
    #9879488 -

Quote:
Einstein didn't like it either.


It really pissed off the unobserved giant squid to tell them they didn't exist. :mad2:


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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9879496 -

The eye is made of matter... what does that have to do with anything?  And instead of giving me half ass responses liike "you already proved yourself wrong"  Give me some real evidence to support your claim and maybe i can see your side.  No one has brought up an argument against mine.  No one has told me "Well in fact on a quantum level an observer is NOT needed because of so on and so forth"  Does anyone here know how to present a formal argument.  If not i suggest taking an introductory class on philosophy at a local university.  Has anyone here ever read about quantum mechanics what so ever?  Cuz your arguments are not scientific, and they are poorly represented.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #9879520 -

The eye is made of matter... ok.  Well, is matter real?  I should hope you will say yes. 

I suppose that you also believe in things called neurons, synapses, neurotransmitters, and other things which make up your "idea" of what you sense with your eyes.  Those things are real too, right?  I should hope you will think so.  Well, if your eyes are real, and what recieves their information is real, and what they are seeing is real, then what?  Its all real!  Aren't you glad you started to argue with me needlessly?

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9879527 -

" Does anyone here know how to present a formal argument.  If not i suggest taking an introductory class on philosophy at a local university.  Has anyone here ever read about quantum mechanics what so ever?  Cuz your arguments are not scientific, and they are poorly represented. "

Its called dialectic.  Read Plato, then tell me what my major is.

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Re: The universe exists because we are observing it. [Re: xFrockx]
    #9879548 -

Haha, this thread is going into flaming fissa fissa.

Too bad.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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