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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7823113 -

MushroomTrip said:
Just because certain other animals don't manifest their awareness in the same ways as we do, doesn't mean that they don't posses awareness.
Saying that we are not animals is unfounded and it comes from a superiority complex, with no real intention of fixing or understanding anything.


That's exactly right. No offense to the person who said that. It's a cultural teaching and the vast majority of people are under it's spell.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: WScott]
    #7823360 -

Quote:
WScottsdale said:I don't think that we are just animals though. We are aware; aware of the damage we're doing. To say we are animals is no justification.


To say that humans are not animals is stupid, but I am saying that we're moving on from that definition to more superior and complex ventures. Take (for lack of imagination) the evergreen tree beside me. On its own its a tree, a plant, but because of the ornaments, candy canes and lights decorating it, it is now a Christmas tree! Fundamentally we are still animals, however, though evolution we've gained many more bells and whistles, primarily to do with the mind and our social habits. We are able to analyze, philosophize and win a prize if we are lucky..

'To whom much is given, much is expected'. To say we are animals as a justification for our greed is a cop out.


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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: WScott]
    #7823433 -

Quote:
Fundamentally we are still animals, however, though evolution we've gained many more bells and whistles, primarily to do with the mind and our social habits.



Bells & whistles huh?:strokebeard:
Please say more

Quote:
We are able to analyze, philosophize and win a prize if we are lucky..


Other animals can do the same things I assure you.
Well, except perhaps winning a prize. :lol:

Quote:
'To whom much is given, much is expected'.


In order to be given something, there must be a giver.
Who's the giver? :sherlock:

Quote:
To say we are animals as a justification for our greed is a cop out.


A justification? It's an observation, learn to make the difference between those two. :wink:
A cop out from what? From being judged? We only feel the need to justify ourselves when we have a judge. Do YOU have one?
I don't. It feels damn good. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7823720 -

MushroomTrip said:
Bells & whistles huh?:strokebeard:
Please say more


No.

Quote:
Other animals can do the same things I assure you.
Well, except perhaps winning a prize. :lol:


Assurances don't substantiate. How do you mean that animals (besides us..) can philosophize?

Quote:
In order to be given something, there must be a giver.
Who's the giver? :sherlock:


Nature? I wasn't implying a creator, but they came from somewhere and now we have them for better or worse. Our mental abilities may not have been gift boxed with the name 'Human' on it, but we have acquired them (to argue with myself, maybe its just to do with consciousness, quantity of neurons and increased social web that creates the facade that we're more intelligent on an individual level). As for expectation, I guess that has more to do with ourselves and our own outlook.

Is the child with 16 crayons going to create a better picture than the kid with 8? Unanswerable/its all opinion. But if that child with 16 crayons, say, stabs the other with his Sunflower Yellow to get more paper so he can use all of his colours..

Quote:
A justification? It's an observation, learn to make the difference between those two. :wink:
A cop out from what? From being judged? We only feel the need to justify ourselves when we have a judge. Do YOU have one?
I don't. It feels damn good. :smirk:


Huh? Redstorm said that animals kill for resources and land in response to marz13 talking about how humans are ravaging the earth. It seemed like RS was saying that because we are animals that it is natural for us to behave like we are. Due to our bells and whistles, we are aware of our actions and their consequences (in the context of modern humans - I know animals are well aware of their action's consequences MushTrip :smile:) to a great extent. You probably disagree but I think this means that humans should use their acquired cognition to adjust detrimental actions to the greater good (or even to just ensure there is a nice spot for our great grandchildren to grow up).

My judge? Retrospect.

"Hey man.. there is a mountain of shit of the coast of the Atlantic ocean beside New York. Its getting bigger and bigger but we don't know what to do. Not to mention the depletion of nutrients from soil from the amount of tobacco crops we are using and abusing. AIDS, starvation and poverty run rampant in many places throughout the world and I can get a 27" colour TV for 129 bucks! You'd think we'd be able to correct some of these problems."

"Don't worry about it, man. We're just animals."


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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7824283 -

Quote:
Bells & whistles huh?
Please say more


are you kidding? :strokebeard:

Quote:
In order to be given something, there must be a giver.
Who's the giver?


seriously? this is not sharing ideas, this is just picking out petty things to argue about. :lol:

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: WScott]
    #7824366 -

No, here's my stance on it.
We ARE animals. We are territorial exactly because we have the same traits as the other animals do. Acknowledging that does not necessarily equate with finding a justification and an excuse. It CAN be that, but if it wasn't this line of reasoning I can assure you that other excuses might and are available and are being used.
What would be wise to rid is that imperative feeling of finding an excuse for our actions, not the thought itself that we are animals.
In fact, I think that if we would start denying that (as some people do), it will be highly detrimental to any possible progress and shift of understanding.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7824989 -

MushroomTrip said:
What would be wise to rid is that imperative feeling of finding an excuse for our actions, not the thought itself that we are animals.
In fact, I think that if we would start denying that (as some people do), it will be highly detrimental to any possible progress and shift of understanding.


I :heart: this attitude. You're getting 5 shrooms.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: freddurgan]
    #7826561 -

I agree. We are merely animals and no better nor worse. I always have felt that way. We just process more information , I would like to say 'most of us,' than animals due to our greater range and diversity of information gathering. Then we also have bigger space to fill in our noggins.

The real irony is that we simply cannot figure out better means for conflict resolution than preying upon others. Seems if people gave fairly to those whom they exploited then there could not remain the sort of outright hostility that we see everywhere. But people of all places want the most for the least, instead of what's balanced and fair. Thus immorality is built into the very systems we create and thus perpetuated. In Bhutan they are developing their government upon the lines of GNH - or gross national happiness. That's using the brain, like a humanist! For once.


--------------------
...or something






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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: eve69]
    #7826638 -

I imagine that most Middle Eastern cults since Manichaeasm have taught that this world is evil. Not just Christianity. That teaching of anything being evil is itself evil, and has led to humankind's decimation of the natural world which is the greatest evil of all. It is to my greatest sadness that we cannot any longer just live in harmony with the world without fearing that the forest will be chopped or the mountain will be blown apart or the ocean will be polluted or the air will be ripped from silence by huge jets. The natural elements have given way to chaos. Purity is gone from the Earth, and who sponsored this destruction? Those cults of the 'devout' who taught that this world is only half-truth and that there's something better on the other side! Well, there is nothing better on the other side for those who cannot even be good and preserve life on this side. That's my belief, and I feel that it's true and just. If we cannot get it right in this world there is no 'Riverworld' on the other side for making up for mistakes. The natural elements are the greatest of goodness allowing for all that we hold dear in our lives. Now all turned to plastic.


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...or something






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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: freddurgan]
    #7861179 -

With other words you can't make a frog bark.
these words have no meaning

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: Philanthropist]
    #7861190 -

y r people so easily controlled?

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: Philanthropist]
    #7861228 -

there is no evil, only wickeness and rightgeousness.

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: freddurgan]
    #7861903 -

If God is omnipotent, all knowing, and all understanding then why does Hell exist for He would understand why people did things?


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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: freddurgan]
    #7862223 -

Jesus didn't teach anything that lay outside of Judaism. The post-biblical theologians have written so much into the New Testament sayings that you are yourself snowed from all the deceit and propaganda.

Original Sin is Augustinian. Paul taught a form of redemption which ws closer to the type that Jesus taught, yet Jesus Himself said in Luke 5:32:
"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." This means that there ARE righteous people yet the doctrine of Original Sin insisted that Everyone 'had fallen short of righteousness' and absolutely required the salvation of Jesus, which, of course, could ONLY be mediated through the sacrament of Communion, which the priests and Church controlled.

Read and learn my friend, as I have been avidly doing, 30 years after seminary. The whole world labors under the lies of men's doctrines.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (01/11/08 10:34 AM)

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7862281 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Read and learn my friend, as I have been avidly doing, 30 years after seminary. The whole world labors under the lies of men's doctrines.


THAT'S about the only thing "The DaVinci Code" got right.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7862471 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
Jesus didn't teach anything that lay outside of Judaism. The post-biblical theologians have written so much into the New Testament sayings that you are yourself snowed from all the deceit and propaganda.

Original Sin is Augustinian. Paul taught a form of redemption which ws closer to the type that Jesus taught, yet Jesus Himself said in Luke 5:32:
"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." This means that there ARE righteous people yet the doctrine of Original Sin insisted that Everyone 'had fallen short of righteousness' and absolutely required the salvation of Jesus, ehich, of course, could ONLY be mediated through the sacrament of Communion, which the priests and Church controlled.

Read and learn my friend, as I have been avidly doing, 30 years after seminary. The whole world labors under the lies of men's doctrines.


Well OK. If there is anyone I trust on this forum for Christian information it's you, so thanks for the clarification.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: freddurgan]
    #7862988 -

We don't need salvation. We didn't need salvation for hundreds of thousands of years. Maybe our culture does, but we as a species do not. Any teaching that says we as a species need salvation is incredibly destructive and should be forbidden.

you sound agitated, maybe is something missing , you sound like me when i use to say god was bad because he let us dye and have all this chaos until i realize Jesus is so cool he let you do what ever you want to do , i mean if that is not freedom what is is, be free , free yourself i guess like just guessing but if you have numbers please 30 % of world probation is catholic, 20 Judaism , 10 Buddha, 10 Mormons, 10 rastas, 5%atheism, 1%entheogen religions,
i mean the world is vast and extent, Indians are doom they don´t believe in Jesus and will go yo hell , but they don´t believe in hell either i´m confuse.
you see all is OK when you can see the order in the chaos , that to worry about, you are changing and the world will be different ,
but don´t worry about Jesus , he´s free as you are..
all my best.

-We don't need saving. We were fine just the way we were and still are. We are slowly awakening to the fact that we are the truthful antichrists, aware of our independence of any salvation.

men you said like millions word just to fall again in the same thing is this a bad felling you have with sometime are your parents separated . child living affect us the rest of our life, when we don´t have love as child we demand it, give to me you are bad you are cruel but what about me what i´m going to do i will believe this Jesus stuff, no man i only believe what i can probe, and see .that´s why i believe in Jesus , but i guess my Jesus is not the same for all the others,i also believe in Buddha maoma, Jimmy Hendrix, Aristotle's, platoon, Confucius, lactose, superman no sorry i don´t believe in superman but in the superhuman , telepathy's, clairvoyance, ghost,spirit,devils,god, the rain,the sum, the morning and i almost forgot the drop of rain in morning Sunday you can beat that.
what don´t you star your own religion i did this in mi mind and since to plug into other and in my own and in no one if you like have all the features.
all my best. mind is so precious tool ,


--------------------

cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo

Edited by cactu (01/11/08 12:47 AM)

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Re: Jesus' teachings were very harmful [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7863398 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
"We" being colonists, "others" being native americans.


Hate to break it to you Fred, but the Native Americans are just colonists who arrived earlier than the Europeans. Does that make them special?

Nature speaks loudly and clearly about whoever is strongest has the right, not the first.


ahh, what is that? did I forget to put on my pants?

oh, nevermind, its just orgone being so very, very cold.

(lol ok that was kind of dorky)

C'mon man. White people have fucked up many other cultures trying to spread their seed in others women and sailing about the earth fucking around with other people's shit.  But thats ok because they were stronger than the natives? 

I think their asshole gene was just a bit more developed. :tongue:

yeah I'm white, I say fuck white people.

whoo hoo I love hypocrisy


--------------------
Tension is who you think you should be. Relaxation is who you are.
- Chinese Proverb

:teleport:

:yinyang: Beauty & Simplicity

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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