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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: fivepointer]
    #5624936 - 05/13/06 04:56 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
You can be a Christian who believes in the bible in one way or part way or a different way.

No, there is only one gospel, one Jesus, one Holy Spirit, and one God. There are many false gospels, false jesuses, and false gods that abound today.

Catholics, Gnostics, ect. worship different gods, they both can't be right. Those who worship God must do so in Spirit and in Truth.
Those who do not have a love of the truth, do not define the truth, do not defend the truth are unbelievers.




Well if you consider the nature of humans, neither of them can really be compleatly right.
Each of these approaches is so complex that it takes years to study their beliefs and views. And most of what they believe came through thinking about the Bible. And of course thinking about something in a closer room really doesn't get one to the truth, but to something that is logical to them based on what information they have.

You can't fill gaps in the Bible with thinking and logic, because you know so little about that which IS written. All you can do, if you want to follow the Bible is trust that which IS written, and try not to twist it.

And that is NOT what any of modern group religions do, they all had their philosophers who were thinking and rethinking about the contents of the Bible, which of course, statistically probably pushed them even further from the truth.

Of course, I'm speaking from the christian point of view, assuming the Bible IS the truth in the first place.
Outside that view, nothing in this thread makes sense anyway, so for the purpuses of this thread, I'll continue speaking strictly from the christian point of view.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5625218 - 05/13/06 06:45 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

You would misinterpret the meanings of open-ended spiritual statements because you wish to escape from true freedom, and like the scribes and lawyers that Jesus condemned, you would also hinder anyone else who wanted to KNOW the Truth.

This is exactly what I think is going on here.  :thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5625433 - 05/13/06 08:09 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Well said


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineBasilides
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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: fivepointer]
    #5625454 - 05/13/06 08:15 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

The Catholic vs. Protestant squabble is as puerile as Shia vs. Sunni in the Muslim world. I guess the only thing we can be thankful for right now is that people like you aren't setting off massive car bombs outside Catholic churches during mass.

As for Rev. Spong... I doubt you ever read one of his books, which are brilliantly composed I might add. It's people like Spong that illuminate and highlight the central core of what Christianity is all about. You sir, are literally trying to destroy everything that Christ Jesus represents. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: Basilides]
    #5625473 - 05/13/06 08:18 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Nice post. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
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Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: Icelander]
    #5625502 - 05/13/06 08:25 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Ditto


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSporetacus
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Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 16 years, 8 days
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5625966 - 05/13/06 09:59 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

I am a big fan of his music. Anyone have the latest Spongle CD?


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5627081 - 05/14/06 02:33 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

:lol:

Actually yes, I listened to the whole thing beginning to end a few weekends back: it completely blew me away. I am completely entranced and enthralled by their music, it's great!


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: fivepointer]
    #5627104 - 05/14/06 02:41 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

These are all very sound points that are being made. I very much hope you are able to consider them with at the least an open mind: a mind free from all beliefs and concepts, truly listening (or reading i guess) and understanding what they are saying.

I'm not sure what your opinion is of a being named St. John of the Cross, but here is a passage from The Dark Night of the Soul that strikes me as relevent.

Quote:

1. These beginners feel so fervent and diligent in their spiritual exercises and undertakings that a certain kind of secret pride is generated in them that begets a complacency with themselves and their accomplishments, even though holy works do of their very nature cause humility. Then they develop a somewhat vain - at times very vain - desire to speak of spiritual things in others' presence, and sometimes even to instruct rather than be instructed; in their hearts they condemn others who do not seem to have the kind of devotion they would like them to have, and sometimes they give expression to this criticism like the pharisee who despised the publican while he boasted and praised God for the good deeds he himself accomplished [Lk. 18:11-12].1

2. The devil, desiring the growth of pride and presumption in these beginners, often increases their fervor and readiness to perform such works, and other ones, too. For he is quite aware that all these works and virtues are not only worthless for them, but even become vices. Some of these persons become so evil-minded that they do not want anyone except themselves to appear holy; and so by both word and deed they condemn and detract others whenever the occasion arises, seeing the little splinter in their brother's eye and failing to consider the wooden beam in their own eye [Mt. 7:3]; they strain at the other's gnat and swallow their own camel [Mt. 23:24].




:heart:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: dblaney]
    #5627650 - 05/14/06 10:26 AM (16 years, 14 days ago)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Yes!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
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Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: dblaney]
    #5628134 - 05/14/06 01:30 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Outstanding choice !!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: fivepointer]
    #5628296 - 05/14/06 02:26 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
No, there is only one gospel, one Jesus, one Holy Spirit, and one God.  There are many false gospels, false jesuses, and false gods that abound today.




There is not a monopoly on the truth; there is not a monopoly on reality. There is one reality, and yet there is a near infinite amount of interpretations of reality. There is one reality, but there is an unlimited amount of ways to know reality.

No one is going to buy your assertions that everyone is wrong about reality, about God, about Jesus, if they do not adopt your single point of view. I would be amazed if you actually think that they will.

The Bible is nothing great, my friend. The Bible is empty; it is inherently nothing, and it is certainly not a gateway to knowing reality or God. If one wants to be closer to God, to Know God, they simply live their life, breathe in the air, and directly perceive reality for what it is, for what we know of it by the act of our direct experience.

Empty concepts that we have created are an obstruction, not a key.

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5628306 - 05/14/06 02:31 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Yes!




Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Outstanding choice !!




:cool: Thanks! I just picked up a copy of it the other day, seems like a valuable contribution to human thought.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5628309 - 05/14/06 02:33 PM (16 years, 14 days ago)

Empty concepts that we have created are an obstruction, not a key.

Well articulated. :thumbup:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 7 months, 12 days
Re: The teachings of John Shelby Spong refuted [Re: fivepointer]
    #5637048 - 05/16/06 01:19 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

hey, bishop spong is my kinda christian...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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