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InvisibleSinbad
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Registered: 12/23/04
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Re: Teachings that Ring True [Re: Swami]
    #3608186 - 01/10/05 02:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

There are some circumstances that are unavoidable, sound like that teachers time was up, no two ways about it.

But being mindful of what one is doing so as not to directly through distraction harm others is essential and is in no way connected with thinking that your doing right thing. mindfullness of how things are so as not to be distracted is the key.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Teachings that Ring True [Re: Sinbad]
    #3608248 - 01/10/05 02:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

sound like that teachers time was up, no two ways about it.

What does that mean?


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Teachings that Ring True [Re: Swami]
    #3608295 - 01/10/05 03:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In my view it means that the karmic causes that created his human vision came to an end. On to the next bag of tricks!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Teachings that Ring True [Re: Sinbad]
    #3608306 - 01/10/05 03:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If we can only tell that someone's time has come after they are dead, then that bit of philosophy is useless as it gives us no information.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Teachings that Ring True [Re: Swami]
    #3608351 - 01/10/05 03:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If we can develop our perception of our inate clarity to such a degree that our awarness become totally diffued with the minds of others, then i belive it is possible to percieve all phenomenon in this illusory world and their subsequent causes and effects.

Some tibetan masters have easily been able to read my mind in the past like an open book.

One of them offered to tell me when i was going to die, but i refused at the time becuase i really didnt want to know. Now i wish i had, then at least i would be able to know how much time i have left on this planet.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Teachings that Ring True - the title has legs of its own [Re: Sinbad]
    #3608644 - 01/10/05 03:55 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Sinbad;
that thing about the time of your death was just the tibetan guy pushing your silly white boy buttons, you did say he could read your mind, didn't you.

well they often have a bit of "innocent" fun that way.

It might be amusing how this thread here has drifted into the purpose of life, having Faith in one's self, and the distinctions between good and evil and are hopefully it may be coming back to the issue of the ringing of true-ly teachings in the title.

which I apologize for not commenting on mroe adroitly before.

Teachings that Ring True
there is a good ring to it.
which for me, frame stacker that i am,
means having many frame matches in memory (hence resonance - since when the teaching comes into my awareness, many associations start to chime in - reinforcing it).

this would mean that a teaching would ring true-est if it related to a greatest number of memories of my experiences.

Naturally this goes along with the point about subjective truth or should I say teachings since the whole thing about truth may not be that relevant.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Teachings that Ring True - the title has legs of its own [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3608733 - 01/10/05 04:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"That thing about the time of your death was just the tibetan guy pushing your silly white boy buttons, you did say he could read your mind, didn't you."

Many great spiritual masters from india and tibet, including the Dalai Lama have given teachings related to what i was saying about the time of death. Im no 'silly white boy', and reading my mind wasnt an innocent bit of fun. He did so in order to guide me, and help me to recognise where my view was at fault. Your attempts to belittle what i say i find most childish!

Back to the topic at hand id like to say that whether or not a teaching rings true or not shouldnt be the main point. Whether it fits into your preconvied ideas or re-affirims your precious beliefs about spirituality shouldnt be your primary motivation. If it rings true with you great, by all means learn and apply that teaching, and find out whether your suspicions were correct. But if it doesnt ring true, what is the harm in doing the same!

I ofen hear many people after reciveing teachings saying such things as "Oh, wasnt that teaching wonderul" or "That teaching didnt make sense to me at all, i think this teaching is wrong", you may have these ideas, or suspicions but unless you put that teaching into practice, there is no way of knowing for sure! You maybe suprised!

Isnt the main point of teaching to free our minds from such ideas and notions of good, bad, right, wrong, and other such notions of duality? Isnt the essence of the teaching to cut through duality itself and free our minds from bondage? Or at the very least to help us to be more open,relaxed, kind people!

redgreenvines, pick my words apart as usual, you are welcome to them my friend!

:smile:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Teachings that Ring True - enlightened heart [Re: Sinbad]
    #3609315 - 01/10/05 06:30 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Oddly when I talk about ringing true it is what I want to talk about,
but if I mention the playfulness of teachers, you are incredulous!
have you met so few of them that you cannot see this in their nature.

If he could read your mind he would play with you {with compassion of course,} and if he could not read your mind but claimed he could, he was certainly playing with you. {either way you miss an opportunity of learning the thing of value}

the element of play is key in having a light heart - an enlightened heart.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Teachings that Ring True - enlightened heart [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3611427 - 01/11/05 03:24 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have met many teachers, and yes some are mostly playful and lighthearted. The term 'Inncocent fun' implies that he was just playing with my mind for fun so i pointed out that this was not his intention.

When i came to that teacher i had many erronous views. He pointed them out in a direct and wrothful manner, not like a child playing with a new toy! His teachings that day destoryed my views to such a degree that i had no choice but to let go, thus discovering in the midst of suffering, the true meaning of the teachings.

Their was no compassionate childsplay invloved, just the wrathful manifestation of his 'enlightened heart'.

I have met many teachers from many different traditions, and each had their own methods and ways of introduction to the essence of their students. Some wrothful, some compassionate and playful, but on this occasion it most certainly was not neither innocent nor fun.

Im now questioning whether you have met too few teachers to see this in their nature.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Teachings that Ring True - enlightened heart [Re: Sinbad]
    #3611487 - 01/11/05 04:32 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

as you seek - so you will find.
the teacher (or dharma) which I seek
is generally more playful than wrathful.
seethe with joy
heal in peace


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Teachings that Ring True - enlightened heart [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3611801 - 01/11/05 08:39 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

i have noticed that your attidue swings more to the side of playful compassion, instead of the more direct, wrathful compassion! To me both are indespensiable.

But wrathful compassion to me is absoluley neccessary to cut through dillusion, like hot knife through butter. Being just nice, and peacful, playful, and compassionate can lull you into a false sense of security!

Although many of my teachers would agree with your approach, As most westerners have to be treated gently.

But i was always a pretty dull student, and needed constant waking up!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Teachings that Ring True - enlightened heart - blast off [Re: Sinbad]
    #3611825 - 01/11/05 08:48 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

i keep thinking that your image
conforms to the most high energy application sort of ideas that you seem to be attracted to.
like a rocket blasting off its launching pad into the isolating void.

technically you are right that some energy from each scale of events can be combined, which can include bulldozers and cranes when a building is knocked over, as well as gentler but vigorous sweeping of debris, after a smaller mess is made.

at least one should be acquainted with each scale of energy that they can meet.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Teachings that Ring True - enlightened heart - blast off [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3611847 - 01/11/05 08:57 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Many teachings i have recieved have been very much related to the energy level. But the void of which you speak, is not isolated, it is like infinte space.

My path utilizes the energy of emotions as a kind of launch pad into the void, as you say, this is quite a correct assumtion. But the picture is more realted, to specific practcies for ejection of concioussness within the tibetan buddhist and hindu traditions.


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