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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5502786 -

This IS death! :smile: [(..this is birth!) We call 'it', LIFE!]

(being/going deceased, is of/an dis?ease)

..

BTW


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: Death [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5502876 -

The way which cannot be named?

:smile:

An eternity to work at eliminating suffering?

Ah this is a powerful argument: the Bodhissatva, coming back for birth again and again until all sentient beings are enlightened.

eliminating suffering can be done within a moment.

It CAN be done in a moment, but it's rarely that straightforward. Even those very advanced spiritual seekers take over a decade in a Zen monastary before reaching any degree of moksha.

I'm not sure, but I do know that studying into manners in which one can maintain constant youth doesn't, in itself, prevent one from being without suffering.

This is very true, it's the intent behind the studying. Show me someone who studies ways to maintain constant youth without the slightest bit of attachment to the fruit of his actions, and I'll [consider] eating the dictionary.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Death [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5502878 -

MushmanTheManic said:
And how can you eliminate suffering if you're lusting after constant youth?

Paxil. :tongue:


:lol:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Death [Re: dblaney]
    #5503438 -

Death is the ultimate realization and liberation from all of the evils & sorrows which surround and bury us in this "reality" that we live in. It is the death of the physical body, but the renewal of us anew.

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Re: Death [Re: lysergicide]
    #5503517 -

Death is the ultimate realization and liberation

I disagree slightly. I think death is temporary liberation from suffering, however one is still on the wheel of Maya and birth/death unless they are able to achieve enlightenment of the Atman and free themselves from Maya.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5503530 -

"...I was swimming in a rainbow with millions of babies...and they was naked...and then all of the sudden I turned into a perfect smile!"

- Greaser's Palace, 1972

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Re: Death [Re: dblaney]
    #5503654 -

dblaney said:
Death is the ultimate realization and liberation

I disagree slightly. I think death is temporary liberation from suffering, however one is still on the wheel of Maya and birth/death unless they are able to achieve enlightenment of the Atman and free themselves from Maya.


How are we able to judge what is and what is not enlightened? Maybe somewhere in between death and birth, we all experience this enlightment... Maybe enlightment is the complete idleness and rest of the soul... Does it really have to consist of "all knowing and being?" Why can't it just be...

When I was nearly dying in that burning car accident of mine, all I could do is remain in my peaceful place on earth. I surpassed pain, hatred and regret of anything in the past, and for a minute, I finally found my place in (or out of) the world... I forgot about my body, the burning open wound in my head and the blood rushing out of my skull. This was it (the end) and I couldn't be more... understanding. I think that upon death, we let go of our former lives & we start anew. Does it enlightment really have to come in the end?

Edited by lysergicide (04/11/06 02:00 PM)

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Re: Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5504445 -

I had a dream about two nights ago and it came to a point where i had died, the things is i lay there underground still alive. After that i basically woke up suddenly thinking about the the dream for the next couple of days. Right before i had woken up I had saw images of a shape of cylinders and they were beaming straight upwards, as for my view on the whole thing.

I'm thinking i had a vision of my own death, but i'm not quit sure what is going to happen after i die.

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Re: Death [Re: lysergicide]
    #5504465 -

How are we able to judge what is and what is not enlightened?

There are many very long scriptures describing Nirvana, so if one is technical those descriptions are generally used to ascertain whether or not one is enlightened.

Maybe somewhere in between death and birth, we all experience this enlightment

I find that hard to swallow, before "I" was born, "I" simply wasn't. Now "I" am, temporarily. After "I" die, it follows that again "I" will cease to exist. Therefore who will be around to experience enlightenment?

Maybe enlightment is the complete idleness and rest of the soul

First I must ask about this 'soul' thing, what is it and where can it be found?

I think that upon death, we let go of our former lives & we start anew.

Would you mind elaborating about this?

Does it enlightment really have to come in the end?

I think it's fairly inevitable really, all sentient beings have a Buddha-nature.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5504729 -

death is the end of consciousness. this is when our brains stop sending/interpreting chemical messages so consequently it is when our cognitive processes are unable to continue. It is the big sleep for sure...nothing more and nothing less (or so it seems).


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Re: Death [Re: Basilides]
    #5504745 -

"the day I die, is the day I got birthed.."
-Unknown :P

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Re: Death [Re: TODAY]
    #5505203 -

death is the end of consciousness.

Death is [a] end of [individualized] consciousness.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Death [Re: dblaney]
    #5505488 -

the brain is the organizational mechanism that interprets chemical messages and relays appropriate mechanical responses to the body. this process is confined to the individual and will not carry over/control another individual directly while that individual is living.

this means that when the individual dies, the brain dies, and that person's individual consciousness dies. all matter of that person's body (either through cremation or burial or whatever) eventually disperses and returns to the earth...as do skin cells, hairs, poop...etc during the lifetime of that living individual. the biomechanisms of the brain that control our percieved individuality and store it in our memories are dispersed upon death and decay, never to reform in that configuration for that purpose ever again. So... our individual consciousness also dies, never to reform in the same structure for the same purpose that it did in our brain when it controlled our self and our perceptions.

basically, that skin cell i shed the other day doesn't join a community consciousness, so why should the mechanisms in my brain reform any type of consciousness?


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Re: Death [Re: TODAY]
    #5505530 -

So... our individual consciousness also dies, never to reform in the same structure for the same purpose that it did in our brain when it controlled our self and our perceptions.

Then we agree! :laugh:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Death [Re: TODAY]
    #5505634 -

Within you there is a formless identity trapped within an individual identity. Who we are is not what we see in the mirror, but a single eye that projects and sees through many.

Your flake of skin served you well. It was a part of your body. It served its own unique, yet small purpose on your entity. It is hubris to assume that your thoughts are no more part of the universal body than that flake of skin was to your own.

Perhaps, contemplate on your skin flake, and the purpose it served, despite that its purpose was small in comparison to the function of your heart or liver, and bits of flesh that make it up. Together it manifests the "You" that traps the world and everything in it through your naked eye, but it is not your eye. Your eye belongs to everyone else, and the eyes of everyone else belong to you.

Was it ever really your skin flake, or did you merely discover it one day with your eye?


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Death [Re: TODAY]
    #5505715 -

In that sense yes, when we die....we DIE!!! lol But there may be some other relative existences of ourselfs in maybe other dimensions which we don't know about...(some we have discovered) which will behave differently upon death. Also, something very important is that "death" is merely a term of the living...the truth lies beyond our grasp...


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Re: Death [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5505746 -

I heard of that movie before, but never seen it. Isn't it about some kind of "Urban Christ" or something?


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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