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Offlineimstoned420
Stranger
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 16
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
chaos mage talking about science
    #536581 - 01/31/02 04:48 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

i found it this on a chaos magick page and im posting it here because the some people think that science realy prove thats there is a objective reality but in real reality there is no such thing as objective reality just a dream within a dream .Scientific formalism, or the assumption that there is in fact an absolutely objective universe out there that allows itself to be quantified, even in theory, is more popular among the layperson who dabbles in scientific thought than actual scientists. Quantum mechanics, chaos mathematics, general relativity and other cutting-edge scientific theories have dispelled the notion of pure objectivity in science. Relativity has proven that no frame of reference is absolute. The Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Mechanics states that objectivity of scientific measurement is a functional impossibility. Bell's Theorum has provided an experimental framework that has proven that acausal effects exist. Chaos Mathematics has shown that in a certain cases, repeatable results to an experiment cannot be obtained, that certain phenomena arise only occasionally and unpredicatably, and statistical probability analysis is the closest one can come to verifiability. Many of the effects observed and analyzed using the tools of Non-Linear Dynamics (the applied branch of Chaos Mathematics) can only be exist in specific closed systems, such as the weather system of a planet. also i read some where that alchemy was the 1st science and that the alchemist beleaved the mindset of the person doing the experment would effect the experiment . if thats true then alot ov science does not prove anything . "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." "The absence of existence (void) exists and therefore reality consists of complete subjectivity."


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OfflineFood
---Beast---

Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: imstoned420]
    #536633 - 01/31/02 06:27 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Thats was one FUCKING EXCELLENT post my friend - thank you very much - now I think I'll read it again .


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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-


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OfflineMentalHygene
otherworldly

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 192
Loc: Somewhere...Under the rai...
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: imstoned420]
    #537144 - 01/31/02 08:36 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

I thank you for posting this thread! This explains alot to those who wish to deal in scientific terms. I think a good example of all of this is that everyone thought that Einstein, and all of his theories were completley wacko, and now we base a good majority of our scientific beliefs around them.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"


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InvisiblePynchon
Slow Learner

Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: imstoned420]
    #537326 - 02/01/02 12:00 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Hello

I'm not sure if I'm missing your point, but it seems almost as if you're trying to use science to disprove itself.

Yes, objective reality has taken a bit of a sucker-punch from quantum mechanics. It's worth remembering, tho', that this branch of science deals with things on the sub-atomic scale. Perhaps it was naive of us to assume that such tiny objects should obey the same laws that we macroscopic beings are familiar with? Certainly there is no reason to think quantum "weirdness" occurs in larger-scale structures.

Relativity and Chaos theory likewise only come into play under the most extraordinary of circumstances. For instance, astronomers still use Newton's laws of gravity to calculate planetary orbits etc, purely because it is much simpler to work with than relativity, and is only slightly less accurate.

Chaos theory does indeed seem to leave room for genuine novelty in the universe. But even it obeys rules. As a not-too-appropriate analogy, consider how easy it is to generate the number pi, with it's infinite string of supposedly random digits.

At any rate, the logical way to better understand these phenomena is through science. It is a bit of a leap to go from Chaos theory to telepathy, UFO's and mysticism, IMHO.

Alchemy is not a science.

I recognise the Burrough's quote, but what's the other one from?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Pynchon]
    #537368 - 02/01/02 12:56 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Pynchon will offiicially be replacing Swami as the resident logician, science defender and debunker. Please direct all queries and tirades to my noble and most worthy succedaneum.

Swami out.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisiblePynchon
Slow Learner

Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Swami]
    #537401 - 02/01/02 01:46 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

...and just where do you think you're going? :wink:

Seriously, I hope you stick around. Maybe if we focused less on the "debunking" aspect and just enjoyed the exchange of views here things wouldn't get so personal. You contribute a lot to this forum -- I think even Shroomism would acknowledge that. 


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Anonymous

Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Pynchon]
    #537406 - 02/01/02 01:51 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Aye


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Anonymous

Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: ]
    #537408 - 02/01/02 01:54 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

that's "eye"... retard. learn how to spell


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Anonymous

Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Anonymous]
    #537412 - 02/01/02 02:00 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Eh?


Edited by Anonymous (02/01/02 02:02 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: ]
    #537413 - 02/01/02 02:03 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

just foolin'


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Anonymous

Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Anonymous]
    #537414 - 02/01/02 02:03 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Oh


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Anonymous

Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Anonymous]
    #537416 - 02/01/02 02:04 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Heh


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Anonymous

Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: ]
    #537418 - 02/01/02 02:06 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

don't make me deactivate you...


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Anonymous

Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Anonymous]
    #537421 - 02/01/02 02:12 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Eeep


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OfflineTimeleech
addict
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 590
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Pynchon]
    #537424 - 02/01/02 02:14 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Quantum mechanics may lie at the very core of the human mind/brain. I base this on some headline and ingress I read, so don't take it too seriously. But Inside the dendrites (the long "arms" of our braincells) there are tiny tubes, so small they are greatly influenced by quantum-level "laws". Those very tubes were believed to have a great say in how the brain works.

Don't quote me on this though, as I haven't followed it through.

As I see it, science and mysticism are two different languages, or sets of symbols. Thereby they both impose their own structure on the thing that is described, neither of which is the entire truth, but usually a close enough model. Except, science seems to get closest in predicting the future, I must say. It has however become a little more holistic, realizing that all sciences need to be soupled together if they are to be helpful. Having just one piece of the puzzle is no good when it comes to seing the whole picture. Which mysticism/religion/spirituality/whatever does better, imho.

Science is like a heavily focused spotlight, while mysticism is a floodlight, as Alan Watts said (modified a bit by me though). It might get a bit hazy at times, but you see a larger picture, while science has greater focus, albeit usually so such a narrow one that you might find yourself at the bottom of a well.


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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Offlinemm.
addict
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/16/99
Posts: 534
Loc: England
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: chaos mage talking about science [Re: Timeleech]
    #537515 - 02/01/02 05:30 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Word to that Timeleech.

"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something seperated form the rest - a kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in it's beauty
-Albert Einstein




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MAPS.org: supporting psychedelic and medical marijuana research since 1986


Edited by mm. (02/01/02 05:32 AM)


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