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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #950280 - 10/10/02 06:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I'm very thankful you're here, Markos. Your posts always put things in such a fresh perspective.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: ]
    #950320 - 10/10/02 06:54 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

:smile:  Thank you again Mr_Mushrooms. Something told me you'd like that one. Time to go to sleep now - I've 'discharged my tension.'  :smile: 


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #950333 - 10/10/02 06:56 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Very kind of you to say. Thank you very much.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #950529 - 10/10/02 07:42 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I'm particularly interested in point C... I was wondering if you could elaborate for my own clarification.


"Symmetry includes perfect form (in a Pythagorean and a mathematically symbolic way), and may well approach or approximate the human emotional reponse to aesthetics (gee, it happened to Seven of Nine!)"

Do you mean that symmetry is similar to human aesthetic response because it is the basis on which meaning may be concluded? I.E. from an aesthetic point of view an event is not meaningful because it doesn't generate emotion, analogous to an event or sequence of events having no meaning in science if it doesn't illustrate symmetry?


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Offlinevaporbrains
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: gluke bastid]
    #950694 - 10/10/02 08:25 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

did someone possess or impersonate mr. mushrooms in this thread? he seems to be talking gibberish.  also, you probably meant to say "you are on a roll"  not "role." it makes a lot more sense that way.  :smile: where exactly should science questions be placed might i ask? any science related question that would affect one's views on the universe, philosophy, spirituality is relevant to this forum.  of course, we have no need for specialists dicussing the intricacies of thier area of interest or scientific discussions that have no relevance to S & P. 


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: gluke bastid]
    #950823 - 10/10/02 08:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

when science leads to the ability to manipulate our environment or predict things, how are we to say that anything but science, in that case, IS the solution?
would you prefer attempting to communicate your posts to us by telepathy, or to use this handy computer science you have available to you?
can religious leaders build airplanes with faith?
science provides the only tangibly useful solutions. religon and spirituality may provide personal solutions to certain people but they aren't universal solutions. they are subjective solutions to subjective problems
airplanes and pacemakers are objective solutions to objective problems.


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #950997 - 10/10/02 09:30 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I honestly don't know why that concept is so hard to grasp for so many.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Edited by Sclorch (10/10/02 09:31 PM)


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InvisibleMetasyn
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #951128 - 10/10/02 10:00 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

They answer different questions yes, but they are both useful. Science is useful for when you want to travel across the country, but spirituality is useful for when you are trying to reconcile the death of a best friend for instance. Spirituality doesn't help in the former any more than science does in the latter. People need to be able to use both in balance and at the appropriate times.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #951139 - 10/10/02 10:02 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Was this directed at me?

If it was, then look man I ain't against science. I'm not a Ludist (sp?) by any stretch of the imagination (those are people who want to destroy machines and return to cottage industry). Besides technology and science can be seperate issues. I just think it is important to critique everything that we make use of. I am extremely critical of democracy's shortcomings, but I think it is the best form of government in existence. If you don't realize the limitations of your own modes of thinking, than you are only going to go as far as one mode of thought will take you. Now THAT's a concept I am amazed that most people can't grasp.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: Metasyn]
    #951184 - 10/10/02 10:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

like I said, spirituality is only useful to certain people in certain situations.
science is useful to anyone in certain situations
it's the only thing that is "the" answer to anything


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #951404 - 10/10/02 11:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Correct.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: gluke bastid]
    #951423 - 10/10/02 11:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Good post. I believe that MOST scientific threads do belong here.

Some fields blur the line between science and philoshophy.

example: psychology, cosmology, astronomy, quantam mechanics, artificial intelligence...

these subjects deal with the nature of being, the nature of existence, the nature of human thought, the nature of the physical univese

How can you seperate these things from philosophy?


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #951458 - 10/11/02 12:12 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

wrong.
some people do. the scientific method is just that though, a method. one that works to find solutions to problems. it doesn't "assume" anything by itself.


wrong.

The scientific method makes two critical assumptions.

1. The laws of nature are consistent through time.
2. The laws of nature are consistent throughout space.

Two assumptions that are untestable.

And here is why science will never "see" objective reality:

According to the Uncertainty Principle, a measurement cannot be made without disturbing the system - in order to confirm the existence of something, you must "bump" it and affect it. Therefore, any scientific observation is affected by the act of observing.

Of course, this is according to the quantum mechanical model of the unverse, which only works in the micro scale, while Newtonian/Einsteinian physics only works in the macro. See the problem? Two models of the universe that are not compatible are both correct! Experimental data has proved both. These physical laws are not consistent with regards to scale.

The Unified Field Theory will resolve these differences but you still can't avoid the original assumptions of science.



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: gluke bastid]
    #951644 - 10/11/02 02:45 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The conscious recognition of symmetry may evoke 'meaning' through its necessary and intelligent design. Human recognition of meaning (or of anything else) will be tinctured by some emotion, howsoever rarified, but emotion by itself does not indicate meaning. But along the reasoning of your last statement, symmetry has the 'mandalic' power to elicit meaning in a way that randomness and chaos does not (IMHO).

A further consideration is that both emotions and meaningfulness can arise independently, and be false realities. Electrical or chemical stimulation of emotional centers in the brain can elicit artificial states of emotion; while psychotic processes can paranoically create meaningful connections when in fact no such connection 'really' exist. Both 'Head and Heart' must be subsumed under a higher (read, transcendental) principle of ordering in order to receive the authority of being 'real.'

Thanks for asking.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Anonymous

Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: vaporbrains]
    #951820 - 10/11/02 05:24 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you. I am fluent in many languages, gibberish being one of them. The use of the word 'role' in place of the word 'roll' was a play on words meant for an exclusive audience of which you are not a part.

I have mentioned this before but timing necessitates its inclusion again:

"The manifestation of the universe as a complex idea unto itself as opposed to being in or outside the true Being of itself is inherently a conceptual nothingness or Nothingness in relation to any abstract form of existing or to exist or having existed in perpetuity and not subject to laws of physicality or motion or ideas relating to non-mater or the lack of objective Being or subjective otherness."

Thank you.


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Offlinevaporbrains
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Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: ]
    #951861 - 10/11/02 05:50 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

bah.


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All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.


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Anonymous

Re: Science isn't philosiphy?!?!?! [Re: vaporbrains]
    #952611 - 10/11/02 10:32 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, me too. :smirk:


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