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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Theories [Re: Swami]
    #4187640 -

theory - A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

Note that it says "especially one that has..." which indicates that testability/predictiveness is not so much a requirement as it is the "norm".

That being said, theories which hold no predictive power are useless, and theories which are untestable are little more than thought-experiments.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Edited by trendal (05/17/05 04:27 PM)

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Re: Theories [Re: Frog]
    #4187647 -

Don't stop there Frogzilla. Keep going.

Webster

conjecture: Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence.

inference: The act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Theories [Re: Swami]
    #4187660 -

Okay, hang on a sec.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Theories [Re: Swami]
    #4187663 -

If someone plants a tree in the remote woods, then comes back with a friend 1 year later and the tree is not there, does it become a "Theory", or a "Fact", a "Belief", or "Nothing"....?    One person could swear that it was there because they planted it, but to anyone else, it never did....


:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Re: Theories [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4187673 -

Read Descartes' meditations. The friend could be dreaming. He could of been deceived. He could of been lying.

The only thing we can deductively prove is that we are conscious.

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Re: Theories [Re: Swami]
    #4187678 -

No, wait, no need to hang on. I'm justs saying that it is not wrong to call something a theory that an assumption or conjecture can still be called a theory, even when based on little or no evidence. It's one of the definitions of "theory."


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Theories [Re: Swami]
    #4187682 -

So why are you confused about the relativity of usefulness?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Theories [Re: spud]
    #4187707 -

spud said:
Read Descartes' meditations. The friend could be dreaming. He could of been deceived. He could of been lying.
.
The only thing we can deductively prove is that we are conscious.


.
What if this guy had a photographs of him planting the tree step by step, and decided to not show the friend....    There would be un-used proof, but where does that leave the tree in relation to the friend....?    If he believed the friend without the proof, would it be based on "Theory", "Faith", "Belief", or "Nothing"....?

:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Re: Theories [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4187724 -

The friend could be dreaming. The photograph and the whole memory of planting the tree or his friend telling him that he planted the tree could be part of his dream.

Or, perhaps God was deceiving us. After all, we are deceived at times, right? God is an all-powerful, all-knowing, and perfectly good being. Therefor, the fact that we are deceived at times means God has no problem with deceiving us. In effect, we could be deceived constantly, since God has no objection.

There are several other scenarios that make it impossible to deductively prove your point.

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Re: Theories [Re: spud]
    #4187743 -

spud said:
There are several other scenarios that make it impossible to deductively prove your point.


Exactly my point....!    :sun:

All theories, facts, beliefs, faiths are all subject to personal perception/perspectives to their own consciousness/awareness.... 

I personally live in a life of ~wonder~................    :sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Re: Theories [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4187808 -

eMotionALLmotion said:
All theories, facts, beliefs, faiths are all subject to personal perception/perspectives to their own consciousness/awareness.... 

I personally live in a life of ~wonder~................    :sun:


:thumbup:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Theories [Re: Frog]
    #4187830 -

:lol: I was wondering why swami called you frogzilla and I just noticed you switched back to your old avatar. :lol:

Uhhhh it's cute!


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Theories [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4187865 -

Thanks for clearing it up for me as well, Jiggy.  :heart:  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Theories [Re: Swami]
    #4188044 -

What is this topic supposed to generate? Another idea? some sort of philosophical/religous meaning? You should just make one post, that compiles all your definitions and observation of peoples errors in this forum. It might better serve you and everyone else, cause it might make your idea more clear and to the point.

I dont know, i was kind of misled when i saw it as a topic, then i actually read what it was about. Your responders are the only ones who began to make a discussion/question out of it :wink:.

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Re: Theories [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4188922 -

eMotionALLmotion said:
All theories, facts, beliefs, faiths are all subject to personal perception/perspectives to their own consciousness/awareness....



:thumbup:


I have several "working theories" about how/why my world works. If you refuse to believe my theory then it wont work for you.

There are MANY theories out there. Some work some of the time, others work most of the time. Very few work EVERYTIME.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: Theories [Re: Zero7a1]
    #4189336 -

What is this topic supposed to generate?

That is a silly question. EVERY single thread veers off into tangential space in short order. No thread is supposed to take us anywhere. There is no track to follow; no agenda. An idea is tossed out and people choose to discuss or not. It goes where the group takes it. Very simple.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Theories [Re: Frog]
    #4189338 -

Jiggerama-mama is just jealous because I stopped calling her cutesy names.  :cool: :heart:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Theories [Re: spud]
    #4189641 -

one minor note to toss into the mix..  it is true that 'theories' are the most popular ideas of the time but it should be emphasized that they remain only 'theories' because while they have "been repeatedly tested" or are "widely accepted", no scientist has yet been able to prove them conclusively.  No matter how you turn the phrase, these are ideas about how the universe works which work pretty consistantly but which we can not prove conclusively.  All theories (even our beloved Darwin's) that we acknowledge now originally began as unpopular theories held by a small group of people who repeatedly have success with their tests and were lucky enough to become popular.

Creationism for example is a theory (not one I subscribe to in the conventional sense but that's beside the point  :wink:) because various aspects of religion Had been repeatedly tested during the period it was popular.  (remember that the church were the scientists and scholars of their age, not just cloistered monks carving icons)  Even today religion is still being tested and no one besides Douglas Adams  :tongue2: has yet successfully disproved (to my knowledge) the research or findings of those original monks.  I keep saying 'testing religion' rather then 'testing Creationism' because Creationism can not be tested anymore then 'Evolution' can, we have to look at related events.  'Evolution' is believed to be true because other aspects appear to match up, such as dino bones, and evolution of current species, but in all this time we still have not found a direct link between humans and monkeys, only close similarities.  When God comes down to tell us 'here's what I did', Darwin rises up and shows us the complete evoutionary chain for humanity, or aliens show us pictures of the cells they put down which became us, then these theories will go away but until then they are all valid, regardless of whether or not modern scientists like them.

Long story short, as far as I am concerned a theory is just as you described: "A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena" (which does not negate that individuals can devise their own theories), and a Popular theory is "one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena" (which is not to negate that unpopular theories can still exist until they are successfully disproven, if they have any chance of being true).  I hope people keep coming up with and fighting for unpopular theories because it costs me nothing for them to spend their time this way, and if one out of a thousand turns out to be true.. go human race!  :grin:

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Re: Theories [Re: Swami]
    #4189980 -

Swami said:
Jiggerama-mama is just jealous because I stopped calling her cutesy names.  :cool: :heart:


:rotfl:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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