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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: reality theory [Re: 1stimer]
    #916318 - 09/29/02 05:24 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Is it necessary that so many unknowns be "beyond our reach"?

Ever since the Buddhists hit on that whole "illusions of reality" gimmick... everyone and their new age brother have been using it as a nice little bullshit counter. It's kind of like Christianity's "God works in mysterious ways". Maybe there are some illusions in reality... I won't deny that. But I can't accept a blanket statement such as "everything is illusion... we are all one consciousness... (thanks Mr. Hicks)". Seeing reality as an illusion makes life less meaningful... a different means to the same end provided by a belief in an afterlife.

I'd rather be ignorant to such a truth than have any meaningfulness taken away.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: reality theory [Re: Sclorch]
    #920878 - 09/30/02 07:08 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

the phrase "what is the meaning of life" is stupid.
that is insinuating that someone or some being created it and gave it meaning. so if we wanted to know the meaning of life all we have to do is ask our mom or dad what they intended us for. If this doesn't appeal to you then ask your supposed god. i would be surprised if you got an answer (since there is no god). "the meaning of life" is irrelevant. life is what and how you live it not some predisposed purpose or meaning. this whole phrase comes from religious idiots who dont think they need to think for themselves, that god will tell them everything they need to know and after spending there whole lives wasted, they realize what is the meaning and they cant answer it because they cant think for themselves or give it meaning, expecting it to be handed to them on a holy stone tablet or in the spoken word of god in a book or divine intervention.

i dunno.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: reality theory [Re: Sclorch]
    #929936 - 10/04/02 12:11 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

"Seeing reality as an illusion makes life less meaningful"

How does this theory portray reality as an illusion?


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: reality theory [Re: 1stimer]
    #932253 - 10/04/02 04:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

How does this theory portray reality as an illusion?

Remember this?:
when something happens it was caused by something else and so on into infinite complexity untill there are so many forces at work that it seems chaotic.

The underlined word "seems" suggests illusion. This is a prime example of how words can be tricky.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: reality theory [Re: Sclorch]
    #932262 - 10/04/02 04:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

im not saying reality is the illusion. chaos is the illusion.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: reality theory [Re: 1stimer]
    #932286 - 10/04/02 04:54 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

im not saying reality is the illusion. chaos is the illusion.

If all we have is our perceptions... and chaos is what we percieve, then how isn't that major chunk of our reality an illusion?


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: reality theory [Re: Sclorch]
    #932296 - 10/04/02 04:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

"then how isn't that major chunk of our reality an illusion"

That is the flaw in your arguement. "our reality" isn't reality. if we didn't exist reality still would.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: reality theory [Re: 1stimer]
    #932313 - 10/04/02 05:02 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Ah.... I think I've figured out the root now.

Sorry, I won't budge on free will. A purely cause-and-effect universe would not leave the door open to true freedom of the will. If we throw a little randomness into the pot, then we are allowed to have something called adaptability. When adaptability is applied to consciousness... one of the things we get is free will. I'm sorry, I won't accept the compatibilist's argument (it is garbage).

Again,
No Free Will = No Hope
I can't live with that.

If you want to argue this fundamental... go ahead, just know I won't be budging.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: reality theory [Re: Sclorch]
    #932327 - 10/04/02 05:06 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

how is free will chaos? you choose what you do and think. its not random.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: reality theory [Re: 1stimer]
    #932343 - 10/04/02 05:11 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Did you READ my post?

Free will is NOT chaos (randomness). However, the two are linked. Free will is a tool that helps a being adapts to chaos.


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Invisible1stimer
Religion=Rape
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1,280
Loc: Amerika
Re: reality theory [Re: Sclorch]
    #932357 - 10/04/02 05:12 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

but that post isnt even compatible because i said i dont believe in chaos. free will is tool that helps us adapt to complexity.


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: reality theory [Re: 1stimer]
    #932514 - 10/04/02 06:09 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

If complexity were true, there would be no such thing as free will (don't forget that I won't accept the compatibilist argument).

Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the various theories on this before you get back with me (not trying to offend, it's just that our discussions would be more productive).


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: reality theory [Re: 1stimer]
    #935459 - 10/05/02 11:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

1stimer said:
the human brain isn't the only thing in the universe that

has on off switches.



Floooowww..

look at light waves and sound waves. ups and downs.

everything is basically a vibration which is an up and a

down.


....the whole process behind implication and explication of: flux. 

when you take a step there is pressure put on the earth

and the earth pushes back with the same opposite force. im



That's called equilibrium.

not saying that the universe is a computer program

playing on somones computer (although a case could be made

that we live in a synthetic universe).


*Synchronized* universe.

constant duality, black and white, 1s and 0s, etc... to

everything in the universe


The constant is impermanency, non-static.  There are cazillions of colors we haven't even seen yet with the nake eye! Mathematics uses exclusively the numbers of 0 to 9. 


Dualness is about the observables based on the tech we have.
A "neuron, the basic functional unit of your mind. Watch it, it either fires or it doesn't fire" doesn't mean its still not 'firing', just cannot be discern anymore due to the limitations of our observational 'equipment'.

theoretically couldn't you create a program that emulates

our universe, if the computer was powerfull enough, using

ones and zeros.


You are referrng to the quantum computer.  Not sure on the possibility of emulation. Except, it's not in binary but quaternary.


the fundamental unit of information (called a quantum

bit or qubit), is not binary but rather more quaternary in

nature.  This qubit property arises as a direct consequence

of its adherence to the laws of quantum mechanics which

differ radically from the laws of classical physics.  A

qubit can exist not only in a state corresponding to the

logical state 0 or 1 as in a classical bit, but also in

states corresponding to a blend or superposition of these

classical states.  In other words, a qubit can exist as a

zero, a one, or simultaneously as both 0 and 1


Quantum computing is in the pioneering stage.  When such

becomes a reality in real-time, your 1 and 0 theory will be

a fairy tale. :wink:  Encryption could go poof.  When

triple-qubit AI and AL propogates from the quantum "mother"

computer, we'll become 'extinct'. :wink:

but that post isnt even compatible because i said i dont believe in chaos. free will is tool that helps us adapt to complexity.

the sense of free-will is in the contextual experience but not in the design. The tool you termeed is a misnomer. Self-awareness, a strata above *governed* free-will, is more suitable one. 

Agreeably but not fully, I am with Sclorch based on the *theory* I have been disseminating for 1/3 of the year. The ramification of a causal reality applies to human architecture at *some* certainty is relevant to:  The moment you're born (cause), you're provided with a design to act, talk and move a certain way (effect) - unique from everybody else.

On adapting to complexity: The design you're born with has sources that *already* has latent qualities; potentially can be cultivated; provided there are eventual opportunities to gravitate.  the situations in life are triggers for a human to tap into his/her own *undiscovered* empowerments - and raising one's own nature to the highest level of freedom. 
Some are not even fully aware they are doing it, but some are. 

The premise here is you had no say from the moment you're born.  True Free-will would mean you could, literally, pre-engineer yourself before birth.  Unless you dabble into Past lives regression, that's an entire different subject.  True free-will would also mean unrestricted mutability by  re-engineering a new archetype after birth if you found uh your current running 'design' unsuitable. hehe 

Anyone who can do both is a *god*. :wink:


edit: wack forum messing up.. ung

 


Edited by Calen (10/06/02 12:53 AM)


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