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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Truth
    #3538003 - 12/24/04 02:44 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Everything is symbolism. The farther removed something is from the fundamental truth which it symbolizes, the more conventional is its nature. Accordingly, it is also more tangible and individually defined, a fragment of the fundamental. As such, it can only be true relative to everything else of an equally fundamental/conventional nature, that is, the other fragments which combine to form a facet of fundamental truth. And since each facet symbolizes something comprised of more than it alone, the accuracy of each facet's truths are relative to those, and only those, of all other facets (which symbolize the same thing through differing means).

The root of all symbolism is of an absolutely fundamental and accordingly subtle nature. Thus, absolute, non-relative truth is ineffable. It's so subtle, however, that it is non-existent, yet absolute non-existence and absolute existence are identical. Therefore, all relative truth is not false but, rather, true, to the extent of its relationship with all other truth.

People claiming that truth is an illusion have not experienced it in absolute form and don't realize that illusion, or fallacy (or non-existence), is in fact reality, or truth (or existence); it comes full circle. Their insistent attempts to sight a particular truth as absolute truth denies, or resists, its relative nature. If they hold truth to this absolute standard and dismiss its relationship to all other truth then, indeed, all truth is false.

There exists an infinite a mount of perspectives, or realities, of specific fundamental/conventional natures. Within each, a truth is relative to all others in the given perspective; a truth's accuracy is relative to all others in the given perspective combined (the perspective's context) and less so the more conventional (static) the perspective. To understand each truth as true in its own way, that is, to understand each truth's legitimacy relative to all others of the same conventional/fundamental nature (reality), and not in comparison to absolute truth, is to allow truth to simply BE. In this light, the notion of accuracy is meaningless.


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Truth [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3538922 - 12/24/04 01:01 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"absolute non-existence and absolute existence are identical."


This doesn't make any sense. It's like saying A = ~A.


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OfflinePali_Gap
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Re: Truth [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3539003 - 12/24/04 01:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Fundamental elements (mathematical quantities in physics): mass, energy, space, time, length, charge.....
Fundamental elements of chemistry (chemical elements): hydrogen, carbon, oxygen, nitrogen.....
Fundamental elements of nuclear physics (subatomic particles): protons, neutrons, electrons, muons, mesons, leptons, pions, neutrinos.....

abstract and concrete
existance preceeds essence --Jean Paul Satre
read that sign post up ahead
it could spell death
but, man oh man
when you get up in the morning
look out, man
the devistating reality
you are on the edge of the obyss
talking about
bing bang skiddly wap pow hey!
I think we're coming to a crossing

lay out some more lines


Edited by Pali_Gap (12/24/04 01:38 PM)


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: Truth [Re: shroomydan]
    #3539629 - 12/24/04 04:53 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
"absolute non-existence and absolute existence are identical."


This doesn't make any sense. It's like saying A = ~A.


So duality is an innate characteristic of the universe? There's no point where things unify as one, eliminating all distinction between one thing and another thing (existence and non-existence)?


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OfflineWhiteRussian
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Re: Truth [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3539685 - 12/24/04 05:18 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

truth about what?


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aaaaaahhhhh


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Truth [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3539755 - 12/24/04 05:49 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"that truth is thrut, is truth"
-unknown :P


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Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Truth [Re: WhiteRussian]
    #3539777 - 12/24/04 05:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"There's no point where things unify as one, eliminating all distinction between one thing and another thing (existence and non-existence)?"

Non-existence is not a thing, its the absence of anything. To say something and nothing are the same thing is nonsensical, because nothing is not a thing.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Truth [Re: shroomydan]
    #3539816 - 12/24/04 06:11 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

No thing; not anything
The substance and/or substances out of which a thing is and/or can be made?

Zero is nothing?

zero  -0-  (sorounding nothing)
one  -1-  (sorounding something)
two  -2-  (sorounding anything)
three -3-  (sorounding everything)

no? :wink: hehehe

:confused:  :sun:


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Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (12/24/04 06:19 PM)


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: Truth [Re: shroomydan]
    #3539843 - 12/24/04 06:16 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
Non-existence is not a thing, its the absence of anything. To say something and nothing are the same thing is nonsensical, because nothing is not a thing.



"something"

Things exist in different levels of reality. Different things are accordingly of different natures. Conventionally natured things do indeed exist separate from non-existence.

When I speak of absolute existence I mean things existing in a 100% fundamental level of reality, or of a 100% fundamental nature. One characteristic of fundamentality is subtlety, and absolute fundamentality causes absolute subtlety. Absolute subtety is non-existence. You can't explain what doesn't exist, thus another characteristic fundamentality is ineffability.

"To say something and nothing are the same thing is nonsensical"

That's right. Only absolute "something" and absolute "nothing" are the same thing.


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Truth [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3539855 - 12/24/04 06:21 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

What do you mean by "Absolute something"?

The way I see it, either something is or it is not.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Truth [Re: shroomydan]
    #3539882 - 12/24/04 06:29 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

""The way I see it, either something is or it is not.""

something that is, is.
something that is not, is not?

absolute something, is something that is, is, is not, is not?

haha, One go back to to the end, by getting to the start?

haha  :confused: :thumbup:


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Truth [Re: shroomydan]
    #3539885 - 12/24/04 06:30 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The way I see it, either something is or it is not.

And for something to be not[hing], there must be first, no-thing. Think of it as vibrational pulses. The physical world is basically vibrational; a pulsating energy field.

0/1, 0/1, 0/1, 0/1, 0/1, 0/1, 0/1, 0/1, 0/1, 0/1...
Sound/Silence, Sound/Silence, Sound/Silence...


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Truth [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3539894 - 12/24/04 06:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

if something is not, it still IS.

0/1 0/1

thou art god, and god thou art.


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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Truth [Re: Todcasil]
    #3539910 - 12/24/04 06:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

if something is not, it still IS.

Yes, for all there is left...is the ISness! hehehe :thumbup:



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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Truth [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3539973 - 12/24/04 07:06 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

The point I've been trying to make here is that being and non-being, existence and nonexistence, is not a duality of one thing. Non being is the absence of being. No, the wave form analogy does not work. The ones and zeros in a binary square wave do not stand for being and non-being; they simply represent two logic states, both of which fall under being.

It's an incredibly simple concept both logically and commonsense wise. Everything that is has existence and falls under the umbrella of being. If you try to also put things that don't exist under the umbrella of being, then the only thing you have accomplished is to render the term nonsensical.

I bet everybody here knows the difference between an existing and a non-existing paycheck.

If existent and nonexistent things are the same, then send me an existing twenty dollar bill and in return I will send you a non-existing 100 dollar bill. What a deal!


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Truth [Re: shroomydan]
    #3540138 - 12/24/04 08:11 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

the wave form analogy does not work.

Show me a wave with no crest, or an up when there is no down, or death when there is no birth.



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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: Truth [Re: shroomydan]
    #3541080 - 12/25/04 01:41 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
The point I've been trying to make here is that being and non-being, existence and nonexistence, is not a duality of one thing. Non being is the absence of being. No, the wave form analogy does not work. The ones and zeros in a binary square wave do not stand for being and non-being; they simply represent two logic states, both of which fall under being.


"Non-existence" is a term that represents a specific thing, concept, idea, etc. If this thing truly does not exist, what's at the other end of the term? All that is conventional exists at least conventionality. Everything exists, in its own way. Nothing is absolutely non-existent. Absolute non-existence is absolute (and absolutely subtle) existence.

In the end there is no duality because nothing doesn't exist.

"It's an incredibly simple concept both logically and commonsense wise. Everything that is has existence and falls under the umbrella of being. If you try to also put things that don't exist under the umbrella of being, then the only thing you have accomplished is to render the term nonsensical."

That's what I'm saying. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. :smile:

When I say "absolute non-existence and absolute existence are identical" I mean to say there is no duality, everything exists (as you also say). Everything exists, everything is true in its own way.


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Truth [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3541092 - 12/25/04 01:45 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

"nothing doesn't exist"

Exactly! That's what I've been saying. :crazy:

Merry Christmas. :laugh:


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: Truth [Re: shroomydan]
    #3541681 - 12/25/04 09:39 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Hahaha. Merry Christmas! :santaclaus:


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