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Re: what is the actual reason [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3219517 -

Quote:
Divided_Sky said
The US Department of the Treasury was established in 1789, almost 100 years before your Freemason thing.





Yeah and it was created 13 years after the creation of the Illuminati, in 1776.  :blush: The same year that the USA was founded?!! Wow that sure is a BIG coincidence...and then their pyramid on our money?...hmmmm...I wonder if they are connected somehow...

Nah, that is way to conspiracy theorist for me...  :rolleyes:


NOTE: US Treasury is NOT the same as the Federal Reserve Bank(System)-(although it doesn't matter now)...the FRB isn't federal(private owned central banks) and prints money with no backing behind it (not a reserve!) and then goes and lends it to the govt(Treasury specifically) at interest! And all of this goes AGAINST the constitution...only Congress has the power to issue money!! Do you smell a scam? :grin:

An interesting quote from President Woodrow Wilson, who signed the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and later regretted it and the fate of his nation because of his actions:

"A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world--no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." --President Woodrow Wilson

Hmmm...I wonder....:smirk:


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need that cash to feed them jones.

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Re: what is the actual reason [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #3223202 -

>> Consider that the country you live in just might not be the living incarnation of satan and all that is evil. Be thankful for what you have, there are billions people on this earth who don't have it so good.

We have it so good because they do not. They live in poverty and sickness because we live in luxury and excess. Before we can have, they must not have. While I am thankful for the food in my mouth and the shelter over my head, I find it very difficult to really enjoy the luxuries of this place with the knowledge that all of it is the product of cheating and cowardice.

This is why Thanksgiving is such a reprehensible holiday. Hundreds of thousands of birds are needlessly slaughtered while everyone gathers around the table to thank an invisible ghost in the sky for all the fantastic things they have, absolutely ignorant to the reality that it exists infront of them only because someone else is being deprived into a painful and premature death.

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Re: what is the actual reason [Re: Ped]
    #3223359 -

Ped said:
We have it so good because they do not. They live in poverty and sickness because we live in luxury and excess.



Bullshit, plain and simple. Many countries are in poverty because of their cultural and/or legal systems (or lack of). For a country to become materially prosperous requires several things, specialization of labor, respect for private property, codified rules of behavior (or laws) which provide a foundation for being able to plan for the future without someone's whims destroying your plans, an established means of adjudicating disputes, the honoring of contracts and obligations and a reasonably stable monetary system (which allows people to be able to plan for the future instead of having to speculate on inflation). The natural state of man is poverty, we rise above that when certain conditions are in place.

Quote:
I find it very difficult to really enjoy the luxuries of this place with the knowledge that all of it is the product of cheating and cowardice.



Well, contrary to your unfounded beliefs, all of this is not the product of cheating and cowardice. The majority of the people work honestly and diligently to increase their creature comforts and this coupled with the other conditions I have already listed have brought us to the level of general wealth that we enjoy.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: what is the actual reason [Re: gnrm23]
    #3223423 -

http://www.calodges.org/no406/ALLCEYE.HTM

There is no tie between the eye-in-the-pyramid symbol, as on the dollar bill and the great seal of the United States, and Freemasonry.

Historians must be cautious about many well-known ?facts.? George Washington chopped down a cherry tree when a boy and confessed the deed to his father. Abner Doubleday invented the game of baseball. Masons inserted some of their emblems (chief among them the eye in the pyramid) into the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States. These historical ?facts? are widely popular, commonly accepted, and equally false.

The eye in the pyramid (emblazoned on the dollar bill, no less) is often cited as ?evidence? that sinister conspiracies abound which will impose a ?New World Order? on an unsuspecting populace. Depending on whom you hear it from, the Masons are planning the takeover themselves, or are working in concert with European bankers, or are leading (or perhaps being led by) the Illuminati (whoever they are). The notion of a worldwide Masonic conspiracy would be laughable, if it weren't being repeated with such earnest gullibility by conspiracists like Pat Robertson.
Sadly, Freemasons are sometimes counted among the gullible who repeat the tall tale of the eye in the pyramid, often with a touch of pride. They may be guilty of nothing worse than innocently puffing the importance of the Fraternity (as well as themselves), but they're guilty nonetheless. The time has come to state the truth plainly and simply.

The Great Seal of the United States of America is not a Masonic emblem, nor does it contain hidden Masonic symbols.

The details are there for anyone to check, who's willing to rely on historical fact rather than hysterical fiction. Benjamin Franklin was the only Mason on the first committee charged with creating a design for the great seal, and his suggestions had no Masonic content.

None of the final designers of the seal were Masons.

The interpretation of the eye on the seal is subtly different from the interpretation used by Masons.

The eye in the pyramid is not nor has ever been a Masonic symbol.


The First Committee
On Independence Day 1776, a committee was created to design a seal for the new American nation. The committee's members were Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams, with Pierre Du Simiti?re as artist and consultant. #1 Of the four men involved, only Benjamin Franklin was a Mason, and he contributed nothing of a Masonic nature to the committee's proposed design for a seal.

Du Simitire, the committee's consultant and a non-Mason, contributed several major design features that made their way into the ultimate design of the seal: ?the shield, E Pluribus Unum, MDCCLXXVI, and the eye of providence in a triangle.? #2 The eye of providence on the seal thus can be traced not to the Masons, but to a non-Mason consultant to the committee.

The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an 'omniscient Ubiquitous Deity' in the medallic art of the Renaissance. Du Simitire, who suggested using the symbol, collected art books and was familiar with the artistic and ornamental devices used in Renaissance art.? #3 This was the same cultural iconography that eventually led Masons to add the all-seeing eye to their symbols.


The Second and Third Committees
Congress declined the first committee's suggestions as well as those of its 1780 committee. Francis Hopkinson, consultant to the second committee, had several lasting ideas that eventually made it into the seal: "white and red stripes within a blue background for the shield, a radiant constellation of thirteen stars, and an olive branch." #4 Hopkinson's greatest contribution to the current seal came from his layout of a 1778 50-dollar colonial note in which he used an unfinished pyramid in the design.

The third and last seal committee of 1782 produced a design that finally satisfied Congress. Charles Thomson, Secretary of Congress, and William Barton, artist and consultant, borrowed from earlier designs and sketched what at length became the United States seal.

The misinterpretation of the seal as a Masonic emblem may have been first introduced a century later in 1884. Harvard Professor Eliot Norton wrote that the reverse was "practically incapable of effective treatment; it can hardly, (however artistically treated by the designer,) look otherwise than as a dull emblem of a Masonic fraternity." #5


Interpreting the Symbol
The "Remarks and Explanations" of Thomson and Barton are the only explanation of the symbols' meaning. Despite what anti-Masons may believe, there's no reason to doubt the interpretation accepted by the Congress: "The Pyramid signified Strength and Duration: The Eye over it & the Motto allude to the many signal interpositions of providence in favor of the American cause." #6

The committees and consultants who designed the Great Seal of the United States contained only one Freemason, Benjamin Franklin. The only possibly Masonic design element among the very many on the seal is the eye of providence, and the interpretation of it by the designers is different from that used by Masons. The eye on the seal represents an active intervention of God in the affairs of men, while the Masonic symbol stands for a passive awareness by God of the activities of men.

The first "official" use and definition of the all-seeing eye as a Masonic symbol seems to have come in 1797 with The Freemason's Monitor of Thomas Smith Webb?14 years after Congress adopted the design for the seal. Here's how Webb explains the symbol:

"[A]nd although our thoughts, words and actions, may be hidden from the eyes of man, yet that All-Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon and Stars obey, and under whose watchful care even comets perform their stupendous revolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human heart, and will reward us according to our merits." #7


The Eye in the Pyramid
Besides the subtly different interpretations of the symbol, it is notable that Webb did not describe the eye as being in a triangle. Jeremy Ladd Cross published The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor in 1819, essentially an illustrated version of Webb's Monitor. In this first "official" depiction of Webb's symbol, Cross had illustrator Amos Doolittle depict the eye surrounded by a semi-circular glory. #8

The all-seeing eye thus appears to be a rather recent addition to Masonic symbolism. It is not found in any of the Gothic constitutions, written from about 1390 to 1730. The eye?sometimes in a triangle, sometimes in clouds, but nearly always surrounded by a glory?was a popular Masonic decorative device in the latter half of the 18th century. Its use as a design element seems to have been an artistic representation of the omniscience of God, rather than some generally accepted Masonic symbol.

Its meaning in all cases, however, was that commonly given it by society at large?a reminder of the constant presence of God. For example, in 1614 the frontispiece of The History of the World by Walter Raleigh showed an eye in a cloud labeled "Providentia" overlooking a globe. It has not been suggested that Raleigh's History is a Masonic document, despite the use of the all-seeing eye.

The eye of Providence was part of the common cultural iconography of the 17th and 18th centuries. When placed in a triangle, the eye went beyond a general representation of God to a strongly Trinitarian statement. It was during this period that Masonic ritual and symbolism evolved, and it is not surprising that many symbols common to and understood by the general society made their way into Masonic ceremonies. Masons may have preferred the triangle because of the frequent use of the number 3 in their ceremonies: three degrees, three original grand masters, three principal officers, and so on. Eventually the all-seeing eye came to be used officially by Masons as a symbol for God, but this happened towards the end of the eighteenth century, after Congress had adopted the seal.

A pyramid, whether incomplete or finished, however, has never been a Masonic symbol. It has no generally accepted symbolic meaning, except perhaps permanence or mystery. The combining of the eye of providence overlooking an unfinished pyramid is a uniquely American, not Masonic, icon, and must be interpreted as its designers intended. It has no Masonic context.


Conclusion
It's hard to know what leads some to see Masonic conspiracies behind world events, but once that hypothesis is accepted, any jot and tittle can be misinterpreted as "evidence." The Great Seal of the United States is a classic example of such a misinterpretation, and some Masons are as guilty of the exaggeration as many anti-Masons.

The Great Seal and Masonic symbolism grew out of the same cultural milieu. While the all-seeing eye had been popularized in Masonic designs of the late eighteenth century, it did not achieve any sort of official recognition until Webb's 1797 Monitor. Whatever status the symbol may have had during the design of the Great Seal, it was not adopted or approved or endorsed by any Grand Lodge. The seal's Eye of Providence and the Mason's All-Seeing Eye each express Divine Omnipotence, but they are parallel uses of a shared icon, not a single symbol.

http://www.calodges.org/no406/ALLCEYE.HTM


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: what is the actual reason [Re: Evolving]
    #3226310 -

It is not "they over there" and "us over here". It is not "they have no success because of themselves" while "we have success because of ourselves." That is a wrong view. It's this wrong view which created and sustains the problem. It is it's foundation. In reality, there is a relationship between the rich and the poor. The rich are as responsible for the poor as the poor are for the rich.

And the idea that Europe and North America's bloated, gassy empire of nations was built on honesty and diplomacy is just purely delusional.

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Re: what is the actual reason [Re: Ped]
    #3226717 -

Ped said:
It is not "they over there" and "us over here". It is not "they have no success because of themselves" while "we have success because of ourselves." That is a wrong view.



*** sigh *** Can you try actually THINKING about my statements instead of pontificating from your 'enlightened' high horse? Compare pre-liberalization mainland China with Hong Kong and Taiwan. The same people, the same stock of humanity, but placed under different circumstances. Compare Ireland as an economic basket case before reforms and the status they enjoy today. Compare East and West Germany before the wall came down. (I spent time in both countries in 1984), the same people, the same culture, but different circumstances led to great disparities of wealth - 'wealthy' doctors in East Germany lived in neighborhoods as nice as I've seen in Compton,CA (sans the graffiti - that's right, the land of Eazy-E and NWA). Take a look at Japan, a nation that has to import just about every raw material needed. Compare the plight of immigrants from third world countries now living in the U.S. with their kin in their homelands...

I will reiterate, and this time try thinking about what I write instead of merely reacting...

The natural state of man is poverty, we rise above that when certain conditions are in place. For a country to become materially prosperous requires several things, specialization and division of labor, respect for private property, widely followed codes of behavior (or laws) which provide a foundation for being able to plan for the future without someone's whims destroying your plans, an established means of adjudicating disputes, the honoring of contracts and obligations and a reasonably stable monetary system (which allows people to be able to plan for the future instead of having to speculate on the value of currency).

The majority of the people in both third world countries and first world countries work honestly and diligently to provide for themselves and their families and increase their creature comforts. The difference is that in first world countries, hard work is performed under the conditions I have listed and this combination is what has brought us to the level of general wealth that we enjoy. The great majority of the wealth enjoyed in first world countries is not the product of cheating and cowardice, to say otherwise is to say that the majority of the people are cheats and cowards. No, your evaluation is one born of envy, ignorance and a pseudo intellectual elitist view of the world.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: what is the actual reason [Re: Ped]
    #3227084 -

I am totally on your side.





:heart:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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