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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? * 3
    #28085440 -

Lots of posts recently about psychedelics which are in some way a shortcut to being happy/enlightened/normal(?). How could you possibly think this having tried it?

I have been taking psychedelics for about 4 years now, and I am only now starting to figure out how to actually use them to better my life in a meaningful way. What kind of "shortcut" takes multiple years to figure out the basics of? Compared to yoga it is extremely difficult, as within weeks of starting yoga I was already a more patient, focused, connected(not to mention fit) and disciplined person, with less than a tenth of the effort I put into psychedelics(considering research, journalling, abstaining completely from TV etc).

I think people confuse the connectedness they feel on psychedelics with true connection. How I see psychedelics, they are a map. Even if you feel like you attain samadhi or satori, it is just like looking at a photo of the grand canyon. Yes it's beauty may overwhelm you even though it is only a photo, but it remains just a photo. Psychedelics remain just a map. Everything you feel on psychedelics is indeed obtainable, but hard fucking work is required.

Honestly statements like these are so cringe, like would you really call yourself a "traveler" if you only read national geographic but stay in your home town? Is national geographic a "shortcut" to "seeing the world", and have you REALLY seen the world by reading it?

But maybe I'm just a prick, maybe you guys have actual examples for me, so please let me know if and how psychedelics have been a shortcut for you in your own personal life. I look forward to reading these.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora] * 5
    #28085547 -

The shortcut is that it transports you to extraordinary states of consciousness that would otherwise take time to enter on your own accord and practice.

They show you the possibilities and the way, it's up to you to still walk. Usually psychedelics are just the beginning of the journey


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora]
    #28085592 -

maybe psychedelics helped you to discover yoga faster than you might have without the taste in advance.

they are a way of tasting life. a bit like removable antennae.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora]
    #28085707 -

@ShiroiTora, thanks for this, i feel the exact same, but never knew how to nail it down or put it in words!
I hate it when people say sth like "oh you can reach higher spheres also without substances as a shortcut" and the worst say using substances to reach higher spheres is even wrong because of this ...

I always thought, damn this is so wrong, and you'd recognize this if you'd get really into psychedelics! i mean nothing like "hey i want some cool visuals". I mean a real enlightenment or learning something, like you are describing it.

yeah in my opinion everyone will (hopefully) find enlightenment, and everyone will do it on his own way, some with substances and some without, and every way is in his own way a very long an complex way, and there are no shortcuts ...

:hatsoff:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora] * 2
    #28085819 -

I think the key word is impermanence. As a meditative practitioner that doesn't use psych substances, I have the profound moments, but they fade into memory and it's back to basics, not that they don't benefit without doubt, but it's about (non)attaining, however the goal is seen, in a way that is consistent.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: syncro] * 2
    #28085862 -

They're just a tool to add to the box. They're not going to solve everything, provide every answer. But they're useful sometimes and irreplaceable in my opinion. I've heard people say they can have psychedelic DMT-level breakthroughs through meditation or yoga but it's just not the same in my opinion. Nothing I've ever experienced has come close to some of my Aya journeys. And a "shortcut" implies that it's work to explore your existence. I don't see it that way, so whether I learn something more effectively one way or another isn't necessarily the priority. If I enjoy learning one way, it doesn't feel like work to me. A decade of psychedelic research and pursuit could feel like no effort at all to me, while a regimen of daily yoga practice would feel like a job.

"Honestly statements like these are so cringe, like would you really call yourself a "traveler" if you only read national geographic but stay in your home town? Is national geographic a "shortcut" to "seeing the world", and have you REALLY seen the world by reading it?"

This is just a bad analogy I think. Has a 6 year old kid that doesn't know anything about psychedelics or yoga really seen the world less than any of us? It's all relevant.

Edited by Icon (12/06/22 10:53 AM)

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora]
    #28086000 -

There are a lot of ways to approach saying this but ultimately the profundity of psychedelics is limited. When it comes to greater knowledge( whatever that is) if it were a staircase into the sky, psychedelics would at best be asshole who says "Don't fall off." Psychedelics don't really do much of anything. They just put you in a position where you do things, and when the thing you want most is to think, are thinking you're best when you're tripping? No, you are not. You're just thinking different. For every great idea there's a million stupid ones, the best thing you can do is figure out which ones are too stupid to try. Like, "Don't fall off." Some people need to hear that. Just like some people don't need psychedelics to get to wherever you think you are.

I think of this stuff as levels. If you're not prepared for the next level, you're doing the same thing. If you're doing the right things, then the next logical progression should happen organically. Yet we force. We assume. We stay. This is part of the process. Be more fluid. Think of thought not like rock but like bee. Grasp the bee and he stings, a gentle hand he lick like doggo then fly away:thumbup:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: larry.fisherman] * 5
    #28086042 -

They don't have to be profound tools or practices either. Sometimes just heightening your senses and having a good time is enough. My most memorable appreciations of vision, food, music, texture, humor, sex, etc. have all been on psychedelics. Even if it's something as meaningless as running your fingers across your clothing and enjoying the sensation. It doesn't have to all be a lesson.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Icon] * 1
    #28086735 -

I agree, people who abuse psychedelics for spirituality irritate me. I mean it's like they are first and foremost BOMB-ASS drugs:lol: They are legit better than any stimulants/depressants I have ever taken, and people should acknowledge that too.

Let's not kid ourselves, if you are not a spiritual person already psychedelics will do nothing to further your spirituality, psychedelics are but non-specific amplifiers of your current state. I mainly take psychedelics like drugs and enjoy them as such, they have desirable effects and acceptable risk and I like the person I turn into on/after their influence(just as I don't like the person I turn into on/after alcohol). Their propensity for philosophical thought is my favorite effect by far, and had psychedelics not existed I would probably take stimulants to imitate those hours-long hyper-connected borderline telepathic conversations you can have with good friends on mescaline.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora] * 1
    #28086753 -

"if you are not a spiritual person already psychedelics will do nothing to further your spirituality, psychedelics are but non-specific amplifiers of your current state. I mainly take psychedelics like drugs and enjoy them as such"

Not really, i knew nothing about nothing, started experimenting with Aya, now i understand the spiritual.

Yes they are non-specific amplifiers of one's current state, and i think that's the issue with most people, especially those who, as you say, take em' like drugs and enjoy them as such, that's the mindset, hence that's all you get. All i really do is take my Aya, turn out the lights, put on headphones and listen to music while laying in bed, focused inwards and on the music, and i venture into many different headspaces, i experience all kinds of emotions, i have mystical/spiritual experiences (including spontaneous/random meditative, yogic and tantric phenomena, as well as talking in tongues and doing weird mudra shit with my hands), i gain insights/understandings/knowledge, it's truly woken me up to a spiritual/religious side of life that i never would've imagined was actually there beforehand, i used to think the spiritual/religious stuff was bs, until i experienced it firsthand, now it's not so much that i'm a "believer", as it is i am a Knower.

The states that we can use Psychedelics to induce are states that the body is already naturally capable of, but are extremely hard if not nearly impossible for the average person to access without a catalyst, such as Psychedelics.

The Psychedelic is but a tool, what you do with it is up to you, you can use it to fuck around, or you can use it to explore yourself and find out.


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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora] * 2
    #28086776 -

ShiroiTora said:
I agree, people who abuse psychedelics for spirituality irritate me. I mean it's like they are first and foremost BOMB-ASS drugs:lol: They are legit better than any stimulants/depressants I have ever taken, and people should acknowledge that too.


I don't hide the fact I've taken LSD the past several years purely for recreational use and just to have fun.  Forget about any spiritual stuff, LSD is straight up just my favorite drug. 

One of my favorite things to do is eat a couple of tabs and lay on my couch and listen to music for a few hours.  I cannot describe the pure, concentrated pleasure I get from taking 150-200ug of LSD and just closing my eyes and tripping out and listening to good ass music.  For me, (everyone is different) the euphoria I get from LSD-enhanced music listening far exceeds MDMA, although I've had some amazing rolls years ago too.

That said, I have had what people would call "spiritual" trips that I feel have benefited my life in many tangible and intangible ways.  I don't necessarily seek those types of trips out nor have I ever but I've had a few creep up on me, most notably when I take mushrooms.

I feel like LSD is much more recreational than mushrooms and I can mold the experience/trip into whatever I want much easier than mushroom trips.  In any case, I'm not the type to tell anyone what to do, so if people get enjoyment out of what they refer to as "spiritual" trips, go for it.  If they start going too hard into the enlightenment shit I can just ignore them.

At the end of the day, I have a 9 to 5 job and two kids and a wife I need to support so I stay as grounded as I can with this shit and just trip for purely entertainment and fun nowadays.

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Icon]
    #28086944 -

Icon said:
They don't have to be profound tools or practices either. Sometimes just heightening your senses and having a good time is enough. My most memorable appreciations of vision, food, music, texture, humor, sex, etc. have all been on psychedelics. Even if it's something as meaningless as running your fingers across your clothing and enjoying the sensation. It doesn't have to all be a lesson.


this totally, thank you for saying so.

also, as I sit here in my morning bathtub checking on my websites, I am enjoying the day after breezy lightness of being that follows a mini dose if you can stop to notice.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28087073 -

It's a shortcut in the same way as using a hammer instead of your hands to drive a nail


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Pastywhyte's easy no pour agar dishes

Stallion Mang’s Ween covers

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28087878 -

Bc everyone wants a shortcut nowadays?

And bc mental Healthcare is pretty nonexistent or out of reach for many of those who use what little is there, or choose none of the normal routes


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

My Trade List

Edited by ashfiken (12/07/22 07:20 PM)

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: TheStallionMang] * 1
    #28088079 -

TheStallionMang said:
It's a shortcut in the same way as using a hammer instead of your hands to drive a nail


Couldn't have said it better myself:lmafo:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Tora]
    #28088093 -

Fuck efficiency, I wanna do it the hard way so that it takes me 5x as long if it happens at all!

Was that less convincing than "I don't want to take a shortcut".

Like the previous dude said, if you needed to drive a nail, and you had to choose between your habd or a hammer, you'd be a damn moron to use your hand.  It wouldn't be beneficial, it would just take a lot more time and a considerable amount of pain.  I'd rate struggling with something for 5x as long painful.


--------------------
If you've never grown mushrooms before, here's how you start.  First, follow the Updated PF Tek, put 4 holes in jar lids not 1, and use a water tub! 
The next move is Shoebox Tek. After that you move onto grains, agar, monotubs.  Agar is easy, just do it.
Other useful links - Picture guide for how things should look and proper surface conditions guide
Growing APE or PE?  P9 pseudo casing tek

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Excess Taters] * 1
    #28088281 -

I've got someone in my life that has a real hard time with facing even the smallest wrongs they do.  Although they do a lot of things that make dealing with them impossible, they believe they do nothing wrong and make every excuse possible for themselves instead of actually just dealing with the issue.  They love to create unnecessary problems and stir shit up then pretend to be the victim if anything is said about their behavior.
They also somehow believe themselves to be an enlightened person and also think taking shrooms to help with anything is cheating.

I believe that this person has to do a lot of mental gymnastics to keep up the appearance of feeling like a really awesome person and they know the shrooms are gonna show em things they have work very hard to stop from thinking about.  In other words, I believe they know their cognitive dissonance would make for a pretty harsh trip


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Pastywhyte's easy no pour agar dishes

Stallion Mang’s Ween covers

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28088366 -

Ever talk to a teenager who took psychedelics and all of a sudden has philosophical and existential and spiritual ideas he didn't have before psychedelics? Speaking of shortcuts, how about the fact that people who have had intractable life-ruining depression trip once and are good for the first time in their adult lives and stay that way for months? Or how about proven telepathy on psychedelics that made you realize that you are not as isolated a self as you once thought? (By proven I mean confirmed by independent verification). Knowing we are all connected changes behavior positively. How about all the people who realize that smoking is bad and quit after a single trip? How about a shortcut to being able to face traumatic memories that you couldn't before, doing beter than years of psychotherapy? How about an entire generation waking up to the fact that war is a stupid idea and that all people are equal? The list goes on....

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #28088375 -

as for short cut analogy, I think not, really - although it produces a temporary mental state that is like the very malleable dream state, the psycedelic experience is on its own an extended visionary event(1), rather than a persisting psycho-medical intervention.

But yes it can be used in psycho-medical interventions, but so far the interveners are mostly untrained shamanic wannabes.

while meditation techniques may help, some may be just as shamanically vague in direction.

I think we are left to our intuitions, and as far as that goes I recommend simplicity, honesty, and balanced movements between what is familiar and what is not yet known.






(1)extended visionary events usually leave me feeling like I had a great workout.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why does everyone think psychedelics are a shortcut? [Re: Neurotech]
    #28088395 -

Neurotech said:
Or how about proven telepathy on psychedelics that made you realize that you are not as isolated a self as you once thought? (By proven I mean confirmed by independent verification). Knowing we are all connected changes behavior positively.


Could you provide more information? I can say I'm skeptical, but curious to hear more. How was it verified?

I admit there may be some experiments one could design that might be able to suggest or rule out telepathy. But it's a tough matter of experimental design.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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