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Offlinesurrealmoose
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: theotherpnut]
    #28325123 - 05/18/23 04:32 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

They treated shrooms like a game so thats what they got outta it. That or it scared them and revealed things to them they weren't wanting to be revealed. Some people are ignorantly bliss and don't want anything to do with enlightenment lol. Why do you think alcohol is so popular? Its the complete opposite, it makes you not have to introspect or think deep about anything.

Edited by surrealmoose (05/18/23 04:32 PM)

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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: surrealmoose]
    #28325405 - 05/18/23 08:04 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

surrealmoose said:
Why do you think alcohol is so popular? Its the complete opposite, it makes you not have to introspect or think deep about anything.




Charles Bukowski
Edgar Allan Poe
F. Scott Fitzgerald
James Joyce
Dorothy Parker
Jack Kerouac
William Faulkner
Truman Capote
Ernest Hemingway...

I have to say that I have heard some of the most absurd shit from people high on mushrooms believing their own bullshit. Psychedelics can make certain people delusional, unfortunately they can make it easy to believe what feels good and inhibit critical thinking.

Edit: Not meaning that alcohol is good for the mind, just that it is not a mental barrier for some. 

Edited by Kiwi89 (05/18/23 08:08 PM)

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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: thelox]
    #28325717 - 05/19/23 02:12 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

This is a very old thread, but I'll say something.

Enlightenment means analytically "being in the light." To be enlightened... But by which light?

Then you see there are many different lights, and some of the lights are little flickerings, which are usually ones that are wired to other ones wired to other ones and so forth. By the time the chain reaches them the energy output is not as strong.

I think "enlightenment" is outdated. To say it is outdated however is not to say it is wrong, or that being contemporary is immediately better. No, I think it begs the platonic question... Which light? How is it? Let's describe its forms and then categorize... etc. etc. And it's all downhill from there.

Christopher Hitchens remarked that Aristotle had drank heavily, although I don't know where he cites this specifically.

I think mushrooms can facilitate something like what we would call 'enlightenment' but... it's really a literal thing that mushrooms do with light, specifically phosphenes, the little lights that dance around when you close your eyes to sleep, and then those are the same lights that make geometrical patterns and.. other interesting imagery.. when you take psychedelics and look into darkness, whether with your eyes closed, or in a dark room, etc. Etc.

These lights are generated by your own eyes, and the occipital cortex processes the sensory data in such a way, that it is not only a process that creates the images... but the very operation of the brain projected onto the darkness as a screen.

You can see your memories projected onto this screen. You can see all kinds of things. And even become a part of the screen and seemingly be interconnections themselves in the midst of the experience. There is a reconfiguration that can happen if you can maintain yourself and know you are safe. This is the most important thing. How I have always done this is knowing exactly the effects of how much I am doing and whatever it is. Knowing the science and history around certain things can provide a safe backdrop for the experience, where whatever strange or disconcerting things you may encounter will be easier to cast aside and think through. There has to be something to ground you, and I think, really, that is love and a good-heartedness, and that is a recognition of humanity and its history. It is a spiritual thing, and when people run from the spiritual aspect of it, they find difficulties. It is exactly what Carl Jung noticed in his patients. He found that many of them were reluctant to tell him directly about what their real spiritual beliefs were. And he found that this is central to people. And this is part of why Carl Jung endeavored in the direction he did. He was, you can say, reaching for Enlightenment. He painted a large book of his dreams, and he wanted to document what the human is, and this is The Red Book. This is Carl Jung's spirituality painted onto those pages because he had to for his own sake, regardless of whether it can be logically explained. Truths may not have an explanation that gives any assurance, but this doesn't mean they should be denied.
The debate between Freud and Jung is extensive. I side mostly with Freud, but that is another subject.

Sartre criticized "being an intellectual." He said it was outdated and bourgeois. I think it is the same thing with us.

Michel Foucault, after taking LSD in California, said he burned his first few books because he thought it was not right at all. And he changed his entire outlook. He says in an interview... Well.. He asks the question "What is life before the experience of certain drugs versus after... This is not a marginal question... This is central. This cannot be excluded, the experiences of certain drugs, and how they can subsequently make you see things very differently." I am paraphrasing here.

Enlightenment has this sense of superiority to it. I think Cicero puts the subject how it ought to actually be put... in De Officiis

Quote:

Who kindly sets a wand'rer on his way
Does e'en as if he lit another's lamp by his:
No less shines his, when he his friend's hath lit.”

In this example he effectively teaches us all to bestow even upon a stranger what it costs us nothing to give. On this principle we have the following maxims: Deny no one the water that flows by; Let anyone who will take fire from our fire;
Honest counsel give to one who is in doubt; for such acts are useful to the recipient and cause the giver no loss. We should, therefore, adopt these principles and always be contributing something to the common weal. But since the resources of individuals are limited and the number of the needy is infinite, this spirit of universal liberality must be regulated according to that test of Ennius—“No less shines his” —in order that we may continue to have the means for being generous to our friends.




I think everyone has a light to share, and I think we should all believe in our inner lights. We are actually in a real sense made of light... It is cliché at this point, but that always fascinated me.

In order to see the light sometimes another light has to come and allow you to clean out the cobwebs and remove the slime that covers them, or to be able to make the appropriate repairs.

Mushrooms themselves are a tool. They are a spiritual medicine. I call it myself, because I'm an odd person, eccentric or whatever you want to call it
MEDICAMENTVM SANCTVM
Sacred remedy

I think we do need these sorts of things to keep us from ossifying in our associations in the world, which can lead us down rabbit holes where we feel we cannot mentally escape it, because we lack the sufficient neurological situation to make different connections in a dramatic way. This is what psychedelics do. If one can understand the experience, which entails doing one's own research and 'looking into themselves' then they will find all the answers they need. And then they may see the real wisdom in things like "know thyself", or many other philosophical wisdoms psychedelic (for lack of better words) people throughout the ages have written.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
sodomy trials
𝕴𝖓 𝖓𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝖇𝖔𝖓𝖎 𝖕𝖊𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖒𝖎 𝖒𝖆𝖑𝖔𝖗𝖚𝖒 𝖋𝖎𝖚𝖓𝖙.

            eí excalfíó             
                 
                                                        kykeon

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28325724 - 05/19/23 02:37 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

it's not enlightened to say enlightenment is outdated,

but I agree it means in the light to some extent, and that is about as physical as a mental thing can be, mostly in the sense that each thing may be seen in its own light, including the body of the viewer, and the mind of the reader.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28325760 - 05/19/23 04:14 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

To be in the light is to try to be a mirror, like Lucretius shows us in De Natura Deorum

Quote:

et quasi multa brevi spatio summittere debet lumina sol, ut perpetuo sint omnia plena,
sic ab rebus item simili ratione necessest
temporis in puncto rerum simulacra ferantur
multa modis multis in cunctas undique partis;
quandoquidem speculum quo cumque obvertimus oris,
res ibi respondent simili forma atque colore.

Also like the sun must be emitting many lights in short space in order that it may perpetually be full in all respects: in this way, likewise; in a similar manner it is necessary that many images of matters, in having been affected, may be on occasion carried from things by many measures produced from every side, since by which at any time when the sun rises we direct against a mirror, the matters respond with similar form and color.




(transl. by me)

Edited by Blue_Lux (05/19/23 04:30 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Blue_Lux] * 1
    #28325819 - 05/19/23 05:46 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

great sounding translation of a very layered and ramified shining moment in the stream


--------------------
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Offlineepilectric
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28326234 - 05/19/23 12:46 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

@ellamush
when I am really stoned (weed or lysergamide or salvia mostly) every position is yoga.




Nice... I had a bag of weak salvia leaves which i smoked in a pipe occasionally. Maybe want to get some again because although it does feel strange, it's still worthwile. After all it involves an opioid receptor

had a "breakthrough" with 15x etract via bong with 16 :laugh: i thought the room is a book page that i have to flip so the next person can use the bong...


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops/tracks

Edited by epilectric (05/19/23 12:53 PM)

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Offlineepilectric
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Calendral]
    #28326243 - 05/19/23 12:50 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Calendral said:
I don't think shrooms bring enlightenment. If you want to be enlightened then study Buddhism. Meditate. The only time I have been 'enlightened' by a drug, it was a particularly strong LSD trip, and I went through an ego loss experience. I was able to step outside myself and examine dispassionately who I was, and make decisions to change.




i agree... psychedelics provide insights and show us the way.. but that way involves a lot of mindfulness practice (which they can certainly aid but it's not the be all end all)


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

https://soundcloud.com/cyberhops/tracks

Edited by epilectric (05/19/23 12:52 PM)

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InvisibleHugeShroom
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: epilectric] * 2
    #28327106 - 05/20/23 04:10 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I would say the term enlightenment is a very loose term and doesn't really mean anything in and of itself.

Psychedelics or rather all psychoactive substances might change how you see things - but I would say every substance is to some degree psychoactive.

There's no real goal here. Let's say you take shrooms and you think you've figured it all out - you now know all truth of the entirety of the cosmos. And then the next day you take a bigger dose and now you thought you knew the truth to everything but this time you really know the truth.

And all of this raises some concerns whether there's truth at all. But even the notion of having or not having truth is just some kind of loose concept which is easily shattered by for example a psychedelic experience.

Anyways I'm sort of derailing here I guess. Some say Psychedelics are not for everyone and that might be true in some sense. But I also think that psychedelics can amplify emotions that have already been there. So I guess when someone is terrified of a shroom trip for example either the dose was way to high or they are not willing to deal with some aspect of themselves - which the experience is - it's always some aspect of your self.

And then again is this merely a simplified version of which could happen. Everyone goes through some individual experience with degrees of complexity that you cannot imagine.

Some will say "I hate shrooms I will never do it again." Some will say "I didn't really feel much - I dunno, it's not for me" and then never touch it again. Some might have a blast the first time and then the second time have a weird of bad experience. Or some might be prejudiced initially and not touch drugs because of how their parents raised them or simply because of lack of curiosity or courage or because of some kind of fear to be punished by law or by god for taking drugs. Who knows what people go through it's all very, very uncertain.

Edited by HugeShroom (05/20/23 04:11 AM)

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OfflineShiroiTora
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: HugeShroom] * 1
    #28327133 - 05/20/23 05:24 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't say enlightenment but Terence McKenna once put it that they "connect us up to the chakras of nature". That's very pretty and all and I don't exactly agree with that either, but both mushrooms and cactus have connected me with something eternal which is felt to be significant.

It existed before language and is therefore incredibly hard to translate into language, but it is the thing that makes plants grow, it is the thing that makes them never give up. It is the reason a whole swarm of birds can turn direction and none will bump into each other or go the wrong way.

The closest word would probably be "the dao", but somehow that doesn't do it justice either. I feel like all the words, and especially " enlightenment " is a reduction of what these plants brought us in the first place. I think we still need a term for what exactly these things do to us, as enlightenment has sort of an intellectual base, and I don't think this is quite the same, psychedelics feel more like they push one toward survival, or maturity(initiation ceremonies come to mind).

"The enlightenment", historically speaking, already belongs to caffeine. We need a new badass term for whatever the fuck is about to happen when society finally accepts psychedelics like they did caffeine in the 1700s:lol:

Edited by ShiroiTora (05/20/23 05:34 AM)

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Offlineepilectric
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: ShiroiTora]
    #28327192 - 05/20/23 06:47 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

very well put :sun:


--------------------
i :heartpump: shroomery

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InvisibleHugeShroom
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: ShiroiTora]
    #28327204 - 05/20/23 06:56 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I feel like all the words, and especially " enlightenment " is a reduction

This.

No words really do justice to any experience imo.

I think we still need a term for what exactly these things do to us, as enlightenment has sort of an intellectual base

Yes, without language humans couldn't find any consensus. And also The term enlightenment has some sort of connotation or almost stigma of "Hippie bullshit" attached to it but isn't really thought through carefully by most people. I personally have never really talked about this besides with a dude who is also into that stuff.

I think im a little worried to talk about this with people who I intuitively believe to not having to do anything with this. I find it quite interesting that the term enlightenment is associated with shrooms and psychedelics. I also think lots of people still don't associate lsd or shrooms with enlightenment.

But i would say most of the people here do. Am I wrong?

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OfflineCalendral
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28327534 - 05/20/23 12:39 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Ego loss allows you to make a dispassionate analysis of who you really are, without the baggage of emotions and ego. It can be frightening if you don't understand what's happening. In my experience, it's rare.

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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Calendral]
    #28327632 - 05/20/23 02:12 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I think psychedelics do help get us closer to enlightenment.

It is strange how all cultures use the word light to explain piercing the veil. "I saw the light, I was blinded by the light, my mind was illuminated, go towards the light, etc." God and Angels and aliens are always in a lot of light or thunderbolts or sun rays. The breaking of the dawn is obviously a new day. Sun worshipers, etc. So it might be a paradox to study the etymologies of some words like enlightenment. The word is a placeholder for piercing the veil. To search for meaning in the etymology might be counterintuitive. But I agree we do need a stricter language and vocabulary if we ever wish to communicate effectively in this world.

I agree with the quotes in the original post here from 20 years ago. When I do 3 to 8 grams of Penis Envy sometimes I see the world is a game and other fucked up shit I would rather not see and it scares me and bums me out.

There are many types of users and forum posters. Some people take psychedelics to party. They get hit by random unintentional episodes of enlightenment. Others are very focused on therapeutic or meditation intentions and these users are much more likely to transcend or find meaning. It is all about set and setting and recent exposures to video or reading material which gets amplified in the trip. So we would have to run strict experiments and allow for all these variables to study how psychedelics bring possible enlightenment.

For myself I noticed I was already a seeker so maybe I twist my experiences into transcendent episodes. For myself I noticed I was judgmental prior to my usage and would not and could not read certain books or watch certain documentaries because I thought it was woo woo bullshit. After psychedelics I  am motivated to read these books and watch these films and I can really absorb the lessons in them. Psychedelics broadened my horizons. Allowing this material into my sober life has pushed me closer to enlightenment.

Maybe the buddhas out there and the bodhisattvas naturally find psychedelics by some cosmic karma order. There is no free will.

Edited by Soul Flight (05/21/23 08:34 AM)

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Offlinedarkcreature
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Beluga]
    #28327645 - 05/20/23 02:26 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Beluga said:
Lol.  “Samasaric existence” is all that matters, and all that is “real.”  Without it, we are just unified all-consciousness in the void, which is same as saying we are nothing, and experience nothing.  That is quite boring, so as God, we like to create worlds to play games in.  Sometimes we do it for challenge, sometimes we do it to experience love, achievement, friendship, ect., and sometimes we do it to fuck, do drugs and have a good time.  All the base and higher pleasures of Maya that you eastern mystic types shit on are actually the only thing God has of any interest or value.  Once you obtain your unattached “enlightenment,” what then?  You will dissolve into Nirvana, sitting around in a lotus position, not giving a shit about anything forever?  Lol.  Of course not.  After a while you will want to love, hate, achieve, suffer, make friends, destroy enemies, achieve power, and have sex.  Then you will enter “Maya” again.  It’s amazing to me that the Eastern types think this place is some sort of accident.  It’s not an accident at all.  The creator wants to create, differentiate, and experience, not just sit around all the time feeling “at One.”





well said, and another angle to it is that in a short while we will all die anyway, so it's quite good opportunity to break free of Maya without trying to hack it from the wrong side of the matrix. I have yet to come across convincing explanation from mystics why in the face of death and impermanence trying to attain liberation even makes sense (discounting answers hinged on religious bullshit concepts like karma)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Calendral]
    #28327702 - 05/20/23 03:33 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Calendral said:
Ego loss allows you to make a dispassionate analysis of who you really are, without the baggage of emotions and ego. It can be frightening if you don't understand what's happening. In my experience, it's rare.



I would call it perspective and detachment. Maybe even disentangled composure.

Otherwise what is ego? Iykwim...


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OfflineSub-Easy
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28328209 - 05/21/23 12:27 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I think enlightenment is found by people who like to look to be enlightened.

Maybe they are looking for the resolution to something they feel is eluding them.

Maybe they just thirst for novelty.

Maybe they are just lost in their own illusions of reality and feel like there is some truth out there that will help them find there way out of the chaos and confusion of their own minds.

Who the fuck can say what enlightenment is,  or what to do with it if they find it?

Maybe it's overrated anyway.

But if the search for enlightenment is the search for the unknown,  then those who find value in the searching, will also find enlightenment in the journey,  and those who don't take pleasure in the finding, won't feel enlightened having had the existence.

The value of the mushroom is going to depend upon how much you value what you discover.

Otherwise,  you are just getting high.

What do you gain by finding the ending to your searching?

It's just the end of an ending. Enlightenment comes in finding a new beginning at the end of your searching.

Some people don't feel the need to do anything with what they discover with mushrooms,  so to them,  enlightenment doesn't lay along the same path as the mushroom. To them,  it's just a scenic detour on the way to where they were going regardless.

I think there are endless places to go from the place the mushrooms take you. But do any of those places end in enlightenment?

I don't know. They are endless,  so it'll take a while to find out.

I think finding enlightenment from mushrooms just means you found the end, and beginning,  and realize that you should probably go back and take a better look at everything in between that you never realized was so much more important.


--------------------
Just take um like you get um.

Those ephemeral spasms of infinity, in suspended animation, born across a boundless ether of existential misery aloft a revelry (of awe) for the abhorrently sublime.

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OfflineFungusFan
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Sub-Easy] * 1
    #28328475 - 05/21/23 08:36 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I don't know about enlightenment but I've definitely had some mystical life changing experiences on shrooms and lsd. When I've taken doses high enough to bring me to ego loss and can view myself with total objectivity. I don't look at any trip like a drug to get high, I look at it as a tool to bring about a totally different window of perception and understanding.

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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Sub-Easy]
    #28328492 - 05/21/23 08:48 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I just wanted to say thank you and express my gratitude for everyone who posted on this thread. All your thoughts are wonderful and helpful to me.

Archaic man gathered around the campfire or worshiped the sun and the community exchanged ideas and the social network was stronger than the individual man. Community was a new technology to take a big leap forward in some momentum or "progress." And maybe psychedelics also were a technology for archaic man. And here we are. We are a bunch of monkeys in 2023 staring at our screens which have replaced fire and the sun. We have a virtual community.

Bragging about enlightenment and inflating our own ego is a pitfall we can fall into. But mushrooms seem to help us pierce the veil or walk out of Plato's cave or get a quick glimpse of enlightenment. It is weird to think maybe enlightenment is a pitfall in itself. Perhaps we are meant to live this life to the fullest inside the veil. Death will return us to the unity? Maybe enlightenment is a glitch in the matrix. My psychedelic use has benefited me and I live a richer more well informed life post-psychedelics. Enlightenment seems to be a very human experience recorded in all cultures from the dawn of time.

Edited by Soul Flight (05/21/23 08:49 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: DO you think shrooms bring about enlightenment? [Re: Soul Flight] * 1
    #28329345 - 05/21/23 11:03 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

what about relative enlightenment, like the dimmer switch


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* Re: lsd and/or shrooms and obssive compulsive disorder jebus 7,698 9 04/13/01 04:56 PM
by Bleuboxo
* Re: Tryin shrooms for the first time, need help. Biffster 7,529 1 03/21/01 05:35 PM
by shroom-girlie

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