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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: hashclown]
    #15141811 - 09/27/11 09:53 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Bump so that I can remember to respond for liquidlounge.













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Mp3 of the month:  Dennis & The Times - Flight Patterns



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Offlineinfectedstyle
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #15142313 - 09/27/11 11:40 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What happened to personal experiences instead of quotes?

First, let me say i really never believed there is such a thing as enlightenment where suddenly everything "clicks". I saw it as an imaginary carrot on a stick used by guru's to promise something at the end of the road.

When i do mushrooms i do it with only two purposes. For my own growth and insights. And basically seeing beautiful stuff. I never get quite what i bargained for. :tongue:

To me, mushrooms have "promised" enlightenment aswell. And yes i take them more seriously than i do any guru. (Not that i don't listen to them and respect them, it's just that mushrooms can explain things so much better) In the sense that i have experiences that i define as enlightenment being rubbed into my face. And it's been made explicitly clear that the only thing holding me back from embracing this is fear. Which makes sense to me.

I don't agree with the definition given for enlightenment at the start of this thread tho. To me, enlightenment is the realization of the illusory nature of all things. And being able to consiously step out of consensus reality at will.

Sometimes when i do mushrooms. Only when i'm alone for a long time i get to a certain place with a certain thought. And when i'm "there" it seems blatantly obvious that all things in the world only excist because i expect them to. Because we all expect them to. Then i look around and see with my own eyes there is nothing left but my room. Look outside and the road is somehow vertical and every car is driven by the same driver. All waving at me and smiling. (I've never fully accepted this however. never to what i can recall) Then i start remembering other things and i come down.

No point. You probably don't understand what i mean. But to me it's interesting that this happens reccuringly on shrooms. Even tho i never bought into all the spiritual stuff. So it's not placebo. Not sure if i used that term correctly. :blush:


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Offlinehorus_92
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: infectedstyle]
    #15142483 - 09/28/11 12:18 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Psychedelics can give you insight into your life and other people that you can use to change yourself, most often people don't follow through with that insight because it's difficult to do so, they can also make you disconnected from reality especially if you use them frequently.

Regardless, I'm pretty suspicious of anybody who claims to be enlightened.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: horus_92]
    #15142605 - 09/28/11 12:43 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I can agree somewhat. I believe enlightenment is completely subjective. I hear people say that drugs can't teach you things you don't know but i don't think that's what it's about... I think enlightenment is when you come to pure acceptance of the things you DO know. All those things you know are good for you deep down but are too busy getting caught up in the day to day negativity and harmful aspects of life that you tend to ignore them. I think enlightenment is when all that "clicks" and you end up with a new motivation to be who you truly want to be and actually live by the standards that you make for yourself and others.

I've known several psyche users who seem like they have life all figured out. But when they tell me everything they've learned, it's not stuff i didn't already know, it's just stuff that i believed in but have never been able to implement in my own life. I still battle with depression and all the stress of life while they're just taking it day by day not concerned with success or failure, but only the obstacles in the present. So, we have the same philosophy in a sense, but it's harder for me to live by mine. Possibly the psyches just re-enforced it for them by allowing them to transcend those barriers which normally hold us back. Things like social-acceptance, money, uncertainty, etc suddenly become less important while under the influence of psychedelics


Edited by JacksonMetaller (09/28/11 12:45 AM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 33,506
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: infectedstyle]
    #15142666 - 09/28/11 12:56 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

You guys make good points.  And infectedstyle, I think you're right about enlightenment being the point where you recognize the illusory nature of reality.  The term is extremely subjective, but I think that definition fits as good as any, and I think a lot of people would agree with it.  But I also think that that's the point I was making. 

So liquidlounge, you wanted me to take a look at my post 10 years later and I did.  I thought I'd think I did a terrible job, and it could have been better, but I actually think I made some good points.  I still agree with all of those points 10 years on.  Thanks for the flashback.














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Mp3 of the month:  Dennis & The Times - Flight Patterns



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OfflineDesert Elf

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 765
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Learyfan]
    #15143084 - 09/28/11 02:31 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Riddle me this:


What if Morpheus never showed Neo the "truth", but in fact was an agent propelling him into a parallel matrix?


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Om Bhur Bhuvah Svaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat


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OfflineMan De Novo
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Desert Elf] * 1
    #15144470 - 09/28/11 06:58 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Wittgenstein once said: "Philosophers are often like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper and then ask the grown-up, "What does this mean?"

It's a good quote to ponder when people are casually throwing around the term 'enlightenment'.

If this wasn't a psychedelic drug forum but a discussion board for a certain sect of Buddhism, I could understand having a fruitful discussion. That's because we would all be steeped in the same tradition, we would share stories and ideas. But being the Shroomery, the chances of any two of the posters in this thread having the exact same definition of enlightenment is slim to none.

So I don't know about enlightenment. I've studied Socrates, and he was all about the love of wisdom. I learned from him that the one of the fundamental pre-requisites to attaining wisdom through debate is to have clear and agreed-upon definitions of words. Limited as we are, language is on a short list of human methods of communication that also includes art. And that's what can make the psychedelic experience so dangerous to intellectual progress - if we feel that there can be a clear meaning conveyed outside of both words and art, or outside of any kind of explicable process, we get dangerously close to trafficking in sheer bullshit.

The proper approach is to build your model of the world from the known facts of the universe while in consensus reality. What exists in the psychedelic experience can only ever be a reflection and amplification of this objective reality. If your consensus reality includes supernatural aspects, your psychedelic experience may too. If you are a strict naturalist, as I am, you may not experience entities. Take what you can from the psychedelic realm. Many people with particular combinations of nature and nurture will be able to improve some things they want to improve about themselves through consistent application on the wake of psychedelic experience. Many won't.

In consensus reality, "the other world" is just a metaphor.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,016
Loc: the sky
Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Man De Novo]
    #15144592 - 09/28/11 07:20 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Man De Novo said:
Wittgenstein once said: "Philosophers are often like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper and then ask the grown-up, "What does this mean?"

It's a good quote to ponder when people are casually throwing around the term 'enlightenment'.

If this wasn't a psychedelic drug forum but a discussion board for a certain sect of Buddhism, I could understand having a fruitful discussion. That's because we would all be steeped in the same tradition, we would share stories and ideas. But being the Shroomery, the chances of any two of the posters in this thread having the exact same definition of enlightenment is slim to none.

So I don't know about enlightenment. I've studied Socrates, and he was all about the love of wisdom. I learned from him that the one of the fundamental pre-requisites to attaining wisdom through debate is to have clear and agreed-upon definitions of words. Limited as we are, language is on a short list of human methods of communication that also includes art. And that's what can make the psychedelic experience so dangerous to intellectual progress - if we feel that there can be a clear meaning conveyed outside of both words and art, or outside of any kind of explicable process, we get dangerously close to trafficking in sheer bullshit.

The proper approach is to build your model of the world from the known facts of the universe while in consensus reality. What exists in the psychedelic experience can only ever be a reflection and amplification of this objective reality. If your consensus reality includes supernatural aspects, your psychedelic experience may too. If you are a strict naturalist, as I am, you may not experience entities. Take what you can from the psychedelic realm. Many people with particular combinations of nature and nurture will be able to improve some things they want to improve about themselves through consistent application on the wake of psychedelic experience. Many won't.

In consensus reality, "the other world" is just a metaphor.




Excellent post, friend.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineDidgedood
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Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #24002913 - 01/12/17 09:59 AM (6 years, 18 days ago)

Agreed, all psychedelics do is catalyze a different state of consciousness, everything else is all you.


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“If there were no desire to heal
The damaged and broken met along
This tedious path I've chosen here
I certainly would've walked away by now” -MJK


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Offlineendogenous
נפל מגיהינום
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #24003120 - 01/12/17 01:20 PM (6 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
"People thought psychedelics were the answer to enlightenment in the 60's, but it didn't work".



This thread is from 15 years ago!

It reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend many years ago. He had gotten into ingesting DMT and LSD and reading the Bible. 

I told him that I had seen the Light.

He acted skeptical.

I told him that he had seen the Light also.

He asked "how is that?"

I told him that when he ingested DMT and saw "colors and patterns" --  THAT WAS THE LIGHT.

Many people have been "Enlightened". However their Enlightenment didn't extend to realizing that they had, in fact, been Enlightened.


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Offlinealwaysbenice
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Registered: 09/29/16
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: endogenous] * 1
    #24003155 - 01/12/17 01:50 PM (6 years, 18 days ago)

5-MeO-DMT (also made in the body) seems to be the most effective tool for true liberation of the ego, to purge it's from all it's trauma and lose completely identification with it and rest as the pure blissful awareness.

The spectrum of the experience and dosis goes something like:
ego death - more ego death - more ego death - absolutely infinity

It is extremely intens and is generally much much much intens than DMT, though DMT can also get one to the end, but so can a sober meditation.

Be warned however, you have to be ready to integrate all the copious amounts of shit stored in the subconscious that you were given by an extremely suppressed culture, and mostly took on in childhood. And most people think they have a lot less than they actually do.

Here is a nice interview on 5-MeO from with adjunct professor who used to it become enlightened supposedly:


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Offlineslacknsurf420
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #24006263 - 01/13/17 02:34 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

I never would have had my death, rebirth, and enlightenment without the use of psychedelics (specifically the very dangerous 25b)

It's not for everybody and I will never condone the use of some research chemicals, especially nbome, even if it is for enlightenment. I did acheive Nirvana, but I also experienced death to the furthest degree imaginable.

I just want add on to the lethality of 25b. It's extremely dangerous, if you took a dose like I did (accidentally dosed like it was regular 2CB). I guarantee you will feel like you are going to die, the experience will last an eternity (it can be considerably longer than DOB or DOC at high doses). You might just want to give up...I dont quite understand how I tripped so long, it seriously felt like weeks. It was an extremely high dose and I experienced many feelings that have developed my character. I'm not religious but I do feel better connected between myself and nature, kind of like I detached myself more from my body but even more in tune with my consciousness.

That's the big thing I will always remember about that one. It was an accident, and I'm happy I went through with it because what I learned was incredibly satisfying. Still, at the same time, I hate when I say that because that was waaaaaaay toooooo muuuucccchhh


Edited by slacknsurf420 (01/13/17 02:53 PM)


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OfflineTylershatto5
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: slacknsurf420] * 1
    #24007230 - 01/13/17 10:54 PM (6 years, 17 days ago)

great post


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I dont ask for opinions i ask for facts!


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Offlinedeep_thinker
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I'm a teapot
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Tylershatto5]
    #24728728 - 10/22/17 02:34 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

It's worth noting that even enlightened people can be assholes.

Google Adi Da.

He was an avatar (transmitted energy, woke people just by being in his presence) and he did stuff like fucking his students wives under the illusion it was to "rid their attachment to their loved ones" and as time went on, to further things like raping women.


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: deep_thinker]
    #24728958 - 10/22/17 06:01 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Enlightenment can be achieved without any entheogen at all, the most enlightened being I've met has never used them


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"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Learyfan]
    #24729280 - 10/22/17 09:00 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

my dads more enlightened than your dad


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Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisibleShroomymancer
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #24729677 - 10/23/17 12:50 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

What is a good definition of enlightenment from someone that's actually enlightened? I suspect the definition varies.


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beep boop


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: Shroomymancer]
    #24730870 - 10/23/17 03:26 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

respectfully making things both less heavy, and more clear for yourself and others.

as if actual light or illumination were part of it, and
as if actual inertia or freedom of movement were part of it.


Many of the apparent attributes of enlightenment such as a deep understanding of attachment which is a double edged sword (attachment is actually essential to the workings of mind/memory/perception) have been faked by charismatic personalities in cult like situations, who abuse their position.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Psychedelics and enlightenment [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24731096 - 10/23/17 05:57 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

my teacher is a real or very accomplished one


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which is bad and which is good
dudelew and
dudelew

Nothing helps in the end like understanding the wisdom-producing aspects of our experience, that is the three charectistics


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