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 alienmindscape
member
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 184
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
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 Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment  [Re: skaMariaPastora]
#494760 - 12/18/01 11:23 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ska said, "Salvia is weird. Usually I don't really know what to make of her experiences. The world is just so utterly alien that I don't know what to bring back with me to this reality. Traditional
psychedelics are easier to assimilate I think, and although they can indeed remove you completely from reality, you are still in this worId. Salvia transports you to a completely
different place altogether. I find Salvia interesting but frankly of little use to daily life. It can make you realize just what else is out there, but as far as actual wisdom with how to live
your life, deal with other people, etc it doesn't offer much. Acid is my favorite. Nothing beats the raw mind opening power of LSD."
Then maybe you should change your name from Ska Maria Pastora (Salvia). The value of Salvia is specifically that it DOES show you this other alien realm. To see this formerly unknown realm is to challenge your belief systems/concepts of reality. I find this knowledge useful in the same way a compass pointing true North is useful. I visited the void on Salvia, and this allowed me to understand passages in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, which otherwise would have struck me as nonsense. It's kind of like, to take an extreme example, if you KNEW for a fact that you would continue after death, this would effect your life in large ways. Salvia expanded the envelope of what I knew reality to be, and I hope not to forget that lesson. Scientific rationalism no longer seems sufficient to explain reality.
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alienmindscape
member
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 184
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Kid]
#494778 - 12/18/01 11:49 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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kid said: " Enlightenment is a sort of transcendental all-knowingness at one moment, devoid of any sort of conceptual thought. Insights are discrete entities. The idea of insights allowing one to progress to me seems too much like wishful thinking:"
But so many people claim to have that all-knowingness at one moment on psychedelics. Maybe it's a question of chemical and dosage. I just read some reports on 5-methoxy-DMT this morning. Let me dig up a salient quote.
OK, here's one:
"An incredible pressure built as I felt the top of my skull split in half, and shatter. Attention now was free to roam into the great Mystery. This took place as attention was paradoxically spread out into infinity, at the time it was being pressed into the smallest atomic structure imaginable. During this experience I had lost all sense of myself as a separate entity. The ?I? had been utterly smashed into the infinite. My words have no meaning when describing such a feeling. It is beyond the spatio-temporal functions of mind and language."
Well, that's one example. Seems I've read a lot of similar accounts.
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 Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: alienmindscape]
#494957 - 12/18/01 03:12 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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What I mean is that I think the insights-to-enlightenment contradict the notion of enlightenment itself. If enlightenment occurs without verbal thought, then how can it be built up to through insightful verbal thought?
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skaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: alienmindscape]
#495104 - 12/18/01 05:39 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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>Salvia expanded the envelope of what I knew reality to be
Very good description, I agree completely here.
I'm not saying Salvia is without wisdom to offer, it just isn't as obvious or immediately useful. I've never had an insight on Salvia that directly changed the way I lived my life, but it certainly offered a new perspective on everyday things. I haven't been to "the void" in a while, maybe I'll have to try it again soon with that attitude in mind.
(As a side note, does "alienmindscape" refer to the Salvia experience? Because that's what I always think of when I see your name)
Edited by skaMariaPastora (12/18/01 05:53 PM)
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alienmindscape
member
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 184
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: skaMariaPastora]
#496118 - 12/19/01 04:30 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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"I'm not saying Salvia is without wisdom to offer, it just isn't as obvious or immediately useful. I've never had an insight on Salvia that directly changed the way I lived my life, but it certainly offered a new perspective on everyday things."
Lower doses of Salvia have influenced some of my decisions. The way it works for me on low doses is that it gives me perspective by giving me a kiss of life and death experience. I wasn't talking to a relative of mine because she married someone who I thought she should not (a second cousin who is over 20 years older than her, and she was 22). Then I smoked some Salvia and I was able to put that behind me and be supportive of her and go to her wedding. I actually had a great time and think the guy it OK. Now I have a great relation with this relative, and get along fine with her husband as well. The Salvia helped me get around my prejudice in the matter.
"As a side note, does "alienmindscape" refer to the Salvia experience?"
Yes.
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alienmindscape
member
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 184
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Kid]
#496120 - 12/19/01 04:34 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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"What I mean is that I think the insights-to-enlightenment contradict the notion of enlightenment itself. If enlightenment occurs without verbal thought, then how can it be built up to through insightful verbal thought? "
A lot of the experiences and understanding I hear people gaining through DMT, 5-methoxy-DMT, K,and Salvia are pretty much non-verbal, or very difficult to put into words, and the words are insufficient to describe the understanding. So, this kind of knowledge isn't built up through insightful verbal thought, but is instantaneious understanding through a forced perspective which defies linear thought. Am I making sense?
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: alienmindscape]
#496311 - 12/19/01 07:48 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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> A lot of the experiences and understanding I hear people gaining through DMT, 5-methoxy-DMT, K,and Salvia are pretty much non-verbal, or very difficult to put into words, and the words are insufficient to describe the understanding. So, this kind of knowledge isn't built up through insightful verbal thought, but is instantaneious understanding through a forced perspective which defies linear thought. Am I making sense?
Yes, that makes sense. What I mean is that it seems that some of the same users who believe in the non-verbal model of Enlightenment also strive towards or see value in verbal insights? Particularly, these verbal insights may be seen as 'one step up' towards enlightenment, which I find contradicts the whole notion of non-verbal enlightenment. My question is how do the users reconcile this seeming paradox?
(of course, I'm not implying that anyone who's replied to this thread is one of these users, but it's something I've noticed on message boards and first hand)
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skaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Kid]
#496542 - 12/19/01 11:26 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Verbalizing an insight doesn't automatically invalidate it as a step toward enlightenment though. I think the important point here is that although an enlightened state of mind can't be transmited from one person to another in words, I see no reason why the thoughts can't be expressed verbally. I could tell you about an insight that I had, but that doesn't mean it wasn't useful to me in coming closer to enlightenment (but you'd have to experience that same feeling yourself, I couldn't "convince" you of its truth). There's nothing wrong with trying to describe one's journey to enlightenment.
To reconcile what we both have to say: people who aim only to package their insights into nice little phrases like "we are all one" or "all you need is love" are not getting closer to actual enlightenment, but a person that has achieved enlightenment nonverbally is certainly capable of attempting to communicate those thoughts to others. Agreed?
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Network23
Psycho-path
 
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 32
Last seen: 11 years, 12 days
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Kid]
#14386894 - 05/02/11 05:02 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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I cant agree that psychedelics have no potentional of longterm/wholelife enlightement.
But I can put my hand in fire for the statement that: taking big amounts of psychedelics will NOT guarantee you any kind of progress. Someone can eat 100s of acids and will not gain anything valuable besides having a good time during trips. This depends on the person, if you are "ready" you can go as far on 1trip as someone doing thumbprints of LSD, of course even further.
I for myself, experience the effects of longterm careful LSD usage on everyday basis. Of course it can be defined as psychosis, but it isnt. I know better than doctors who only read books about it. The border is very thick 
One thing that is usable in everyday life is my hyper-empathy. Its partially curse, blessing and learning all together. In 3 seconds of looking upon someone, I get big ammount of informations. Much bigger than before I used my 1st psychedelic. I see immediatelly his attitude towards myself. And I get many other indications fast.
I have built my view on world, how it all started, what was 1st what was 2nd, why is it like it is, why it must be like this, whats the possible purpose.
Before taking psychedelics, I was thinking about how I go to school, work, eat, drink... so really nothing. Now I think a lot for a long time, and I feel I have walked some good amount of path somewhere.
And I dont believe there is a ultimate, finished up truth, here in physical world Because of its own nature.
PS: and sorry for mega-necro, didnt realized that .)
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“Nobody stopped thinking about those psychedelic experiences. Once you’ve been to some of those places, you think, ‘How can I get back there again but make it a little easier on myself?’” Jerry Garcia 1989
Edited by Network23 (05/02/11 05:04 AM)
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HerbalJunkie
Psycho
Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 305
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Network23]
#14386918 - 05/02/11 05:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enlightenment is a 13 letter word which was givin a spiritual definition by Humans. Simple.
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Network23
Psycho-path
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 32
Last seen: 11 years, 12 days
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: HerbalJunkie]
#14388063 - 05/02/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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I bet it was the opposite way
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“Nobody stopped thinking about those psychedelic experiences. Once you’ve been to some of those places, you think, ‘How can I get back there again but make it a little easier on myself?’” Jerry Garcia 1989
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DiscoBiscuitsTrip
Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,422
Loc: FL
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Network23]
#14388295 - 05/02/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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i know for a fact i wouldnt be who i am today if it werent for the trips ive taken. i dont think there is a big question they can answer for me but they definitely help me sort out my life when i really need it, keep me on the right track.
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Didgedood
Stranger
Registered: 09/01/16
Posts: 66
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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 Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Kid]
#24002915 - 01/12/17 01:02 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's really all up to the individual
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“If there were no desire to heal
The damaged and broken met along
This tedious path I've chosen here
I certainly would've walked away by now” -MJK
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Feelinglife
Stranger
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 4
Last seen: 19 days, 23 hours
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Swami]
#25509459 - 10/03/18 02:21 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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No mirage, you just haven't been listening. To what your answers are to your questions. Peace
Edited by Feelinglife (10/03/18 02:22 PM)
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Feelinglife
Stranger
Registered: 06/07/17
Posts: 4
Last seen: 19 days, 23 hours
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Agreed
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW 
Last seen: 9 months, 11 days
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Re: The Psychedelic Experience and Enlightenment [Re: Feelinglife]
#25510605 - 10/03/18 10:06 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Feelinglife said:
No mirage, you just haven't been listening. To what your answers are to your questions. Peace
Replying to a 16 year old post by a banned member is futile. Start a new thread if you want to say something please.
Seriously. 
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects:  Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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