Home | Community | Message Board

Sporeworks
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < First | | 231 | 232 | 233 | 234 | 235 | 236 | 237 | 238 | 239 | 240 | 241 | 242 | 243 | 244 | 245 | 246 | 247 | 248 | 249 | 250 | 251 |
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: amp244] * 4
    #23889537 -

Thank you for posting examples of what you're defending.

amp244 said:
Dr. Nicola Scafetta, Ph.D. Physics:
"What my papers say is that the IPCC view is erroneous because about 40-70% of the global warming observed from 1900 to 2000 was induced by the sun. This implies that the true climate sensitivity to CO2 doubling is likely around 1.5 C or less, and that the 21st century projections must be reduced by at least a factor of 2 or more. Of that the sun contributed (more or less) as much as the anthropogenic forcings."

"Please note that it is very important to clarify that the AGW advocated by the IPCC has always claimed that 90-100% of the warming observed since 1900 is due to anthropogenic emissions. While critics like me have always claimed that the data would approximately indicate a 50-50 natural-anthropogenic contribution at most."

^^He is not denying human impact on the climate via co2 emission. He is qualifying its impact.



Here he is showing his prediction in 2010:


And six years later, here are his numbers vs the IPCC numbers vs the actual numbers:

:homerdoh3:

amp244 said:
Dr. Nir J. Shaviv, Ph.D. Astrophysics
"The paper shows that if cosmic rays are included in empirical climate sensitivity analyses, then one finds that different time scales consistently give a low climate sensitiviity. i.e., it supports the idea that cosmic rays affect the climate and that climate sensitivity is low. This means that part of the 20th century should be attributed to the increased solar activity and that 21st century warming under a business as usual scenario should be low (about 1°C)."



While there does seem to be a possible correlation between sunspots and temperature, that theory is also starting to fall apart:


amp244 said:
Dr. Nils-Axel Morner, Ph.D. Quaternary Geology
"The paper is strongly against AGW, and documents its absence in the sea level observational facts. Also, it invalidates the mode of sea level handling by the IPCC."



Morner is clearly wrong about his sea level 'facts' because the sea is clearly rising:

(more here)

amp244 said:
Dr. Willie Soon, Ph.D. Rocket Science
"The main tool climate scientists used to confirm or reject their CO2-AGW hypothesis is largely not validated and hence has a very limited role for any diagnosis or even predicting real-world regional impacts for any changes in atmospheric CO2."



Willie Soon obtained over $1 million from petroleum and coal to report that climate change isn't man made.  That in itself doesn't prove him wrong, but his published article didn't go through the normal peer review process, and he took the same position of Dr. Shaviv above that sunspots were the main cause of temperature change.

amp244 said:
Dr. Alan Carlin, Ph.D. Economics, MIT
Senior Operations Research Analyst, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

"The economic benefits of reducing CO2 emissions may be about two orders of magnitude less than those estimated by most economists because the climate sensitivity factor (CSF) is much lower than assumed by the United Nations because feedback is negative rather than positive and the effects of CO2 emissions reductions on atmospheric CO2 appear to be short rather than long lasting."

"In brief, I argue that human activity may increase temperatures over what they would otherwise have been without human activity, but the effect is so minor that it is not worth serious consideration."



Carlin is not a scientist.  Again, that doesn't mean he's wrong, but he's claiming that water vapor doesn't increase with temperature; something many climate scientists disagree with him on.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/03/16 04:05 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: amp244] * 5
    #23889543 -

amp244 said:
my bad, 3 Nobel prize winning physicists question ACC. So just realize that I am not fucking crazy for having my opinion, it is actually shared by a lot more legitimate scientists than you'd be willing to admit.



I'll admit 3 Nobel prize winners question ACC.  Will you admit 36 accept it as fact?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/03/16 12:37 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #23890248 -

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (12/17/16 01:07 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23891278 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
amp244 said:
my bad, 3 Nobel prize winning physicists question ACC. So just realize that I am not fucking crazy for having my opinion, it is actually shared by a lot more legitimate scientists than you'd be willing to admit.



I'll admit 3 Nobel prize winners question ACC.  Will you admit 36 accept it as fact?



:justastonishing:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23891374 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
amp244 said:
my bad, 3 Nobel prize winning physicists question ACC. So just realize that I am not fucking crazy for having my opinion, it is actually shared by a lot more legitimate scientists than you'd be willing to admit.



I'll admit 3 Nobel prize winners question ACC.  Will you admit 36 accept it as fact?



Magnitude is a extremely weak argument
Back in nazi German most scientists would tell you Jewish people were inferior based on science. And few of them would disagree if any.

Populations of scientists go with status quo they're humans and want to fit in.

Funny to think we're at some pinnacle of understanding.

I don't pretend I know everything about climate change but I would rather listen to 6 compelling scientists than 36 ones operating on conjecture.
Not saying that's the case here, but pick who you listen to is more important than the popular opinion

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23891414 -

bodhisatta said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
amp244 said:
my bad, 3 Nobel prize winning physicists question ACC. So just realize that I am not fucking crazy for having my opinion, it is actually shared by a lot more legitimate scientists than you'd be willing to admit.



I'll admit 3 Nobel prize winners question ACC.  Will you admit 36 accept it as fact?



Magnitude is a extremely weak argument
Back in nazi German most scientists would tell you Jewish people were inferior based on science. And few of them would disagree if any.

Populations of scientists go with status quo they're humans and want to fit in.

Funny to think we're at some pinnacle of understanding.

I don't pretend I know everything about climate change but I would rather listen to 6 compelling scientists than 36 ones operating on conjecture.
Not saying that's the case here, but pick who you listen to is more important than the popular opinion



Well if this is like the nazi/jew thing - the 6 scientists should currently be working on a nuclear bomb to erradicate the other 36 :vaped:


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23891433 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
amp244 said:
my bad, 3 Nobel prize winning physicists question ACC. So just realize that I am not fucking crazy for having my opinion, it is actually shared by a lot more legitimate scientists than you'd be willing to admit.



I'll admit 3 Nobel prize winners question ACC.  Will you admit 36 accept it as fact?



:justastonishing:



I'm well aware that the people I was citing were in the minority. Also, none of the scientists or nobel winners deny ACC. They question its impact. They aren't arguing about whether or not the earth is warming, they are arguing to what degree ACC is to blame.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: amp244] * 2
    #23891524 -

This reminds me of the goal post moving done in the Christian community.

Spend a century denying a fact, then when that position becomes untenable, "well yeah of course god created evolution it just shows how genius and mysterious he is."


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23891579 -

bodhisatta said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'll admit 3 Nobel prize winners question ACC.  Will you admit 36 accept it as fact?



Magnitude is a extremely weak argument

I would rather listen to 6 compelling scientists than 36 ones operating on conjecture.
Not saying that's the case here, but pick who you listen to is more important than the popular opinion



I agree.  And as shown above, the few that disagree with climate science make the worst arguments.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23891641 -

You know, when we laymen talk about science, we are always relying on the consensus within the scientific community. Most of the time, we do not understand the intricacies behind the postulations of 'scientists'. We often resort to pier-reviewed publishings in scientific journals. We trust these scientific journals because they are reputable. They are reputable, because that is the consensus. We rely on general consensus of other folks. It's not perfect.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (12/03/16 09:04 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23891692 -

bodhisatta said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
amp244 said:
my bad, 3 Nobel prize winning physicists question ACC. So just realize that I am not fucking crazy for having my opinion, it is actually shared by a lot more legitimate scientists than you'd be willing to admit.



I'll admit 3 Nobel prize winners question ACC.  Will you admit 36 accept it as fact?



Magnitude is a extremely weak argument
Back in nazi German most scientists would tell you Jewish people were inferior based on science. And few of them would disagree if any.



... and those Nazi scientists were in the minority, globally. Nazi scientists were also guided by a bias against Jews, which preceded their "scientific insights". There's a reason we don't trust Nazis to inform us about race, just like we don't trust oil companies to inform us on environmental health.

You're not wrong though. Galileo was ostracized for his observations. Then again, his persecutors were also informed by a non-scientific and biased ideological foundation. The point remains, it is fallacious to assert that the majority are correct, simply because they are in the majority. We've seen this demonstrated time and time again. However, I don't see why it doesn't strengthen the case, when it follows an argument that has already provided substantial evidence.

Quote:
Populations of scientists go with status quo they're humans and want to fit in.



It depends on the scientist. When science is practiced correctly, dissent is welcome, when it can be empirically supported. The greatest achievement for someone in a scientific field, would be to disprove conventional wisdom.

I honestly don't believe this to always be the case in the modern scientific world though. Scientists need funding, and it's much more difficult to be a maverick, when you're trying to maintain a respectable (fundable) appearance in the scientific world.

Quote:
Funny to think we're at some pinnacle of understanding.



We've made leaps and bounds in some areas. Unfortunately, we've failed to make such strides in the sociologically.

Quote:
I don't pretend I know everything about climate change but I would rather listen to 6 compelling scientists than 36 ones operating on conjecture.



Who says they are operating on conjecture? How have you concluded that the 36 are guilty of making claims based on conjecture, but the 6 are not? The fact that the vast majority line up on one side of this argument doesn't make them right, but it certainly doesn't make them inherently wrong, does it?

I do agree that the case made by the 6 ought to be heard, and is possibly more likely to provide insights into factors that have been unaccounted for.

Quote:
Not saying that's the case here, but pick who you listen to is more important than the popular opinion



I don't think Falcon was trying to say that. I think it was more of a cherry on top of the other arguments he has presented. If he were resting his case on the popularity of his argument alone, he wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: amp244]
    #23891697 -

amp244 said:
I'm well aware that the people I was citing were in the minority. Also, none of the scientists or nobel winners deny ACC. They question its impact. They aren't arguing about whether or not the earth is warming, they are arguing to what degree ACC is to blame.



I thought you already established that.

Regardless, I probably don't have any business in this conversation. I haven't been following it.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23891777 -

Bigbadwooof said:
bodhisatta said:
Populations of scientists go with status quo they're humans and want to fit in.



It depends on the scientist. When science is practiced correctly, dissent is welcome, when it can be empirically supported. The greatest achievement for someone in a scientific field, would be to disprove conventional wisdom.



Yup.  Another reason I disagree with bodhisatta is the fact that anyone that goes against conventional wisdom on climate science is actually given instant celebrity status by the right, even if their argument is wrong, as the ones above turned out to be.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #23891817 -

I wasn't making a sided point I was just pointing out a flaw in logic.

Simply put those 36 could be right
But the belief that they're right just because it's 36v6 is stupidity

Our scientific community is still operating on the principles that shunned Galileo. Fringe usually brings advancement, but fringe is usually ridiculed first.

Just trying to get people to broaden their horizons regardless of their side. Honestly if everyone worked together rather than argued about their beliefs...
Well

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #23892029 -

bodhisatta said:
I wasn't making a sided point I was just pointing out a flaw in logic.

Simply put those 36 could be right
But the belief that they're right just because it's 36v6 is stupidity

Our scientific community is still operating on the principles that shunned Galileo. Fringe usually brings advancement, but fringe is usually ridiculed first.



"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

I guess I can't argue that, although I think utterly unsubstantiated dogma (Like claims made on the basis of religious texts - ie: The earth is the center of the universe because 'the Bible') no longer bears any weight whatsoever. However, the scientific field is rife with flaws. A good example would be the countless studies that have never been duplicated, whose conclusions are sourced as fact. That, and conclusions derived from studies, which rely on exceptionally loose interpretation of the data. Both of these happen a lot in the field of psychology. That's probably why psychology has lost much prestige over the past few decades. The field of Sociology has an affinity for drawing wild conclusions from data also. Maybe it's because these aren't hard sciences.

Quote:
Just trying to get people to broaden their horizons regardless of their side. Honestly if everyone worked together rather than argued about their beliefs...
Well



I see where you're coming from. As I said:

Quote:
You're not wrong though. Galileo was ostracized for his observations.



I think the political rhetoric has become so incredibly divisive these days, that it is going to be very difficult to find our way back to rationality. The media and politicians both share the blame. They thrive on a polarized public. Everyone shit scared of the 'other'. So scared, that lefties will go vote for Clinton, because at least she isn't Trump. So scared that they will tune in to Fox News every day to keep an eye on those dirty librawl commie mooches who want to take our guns and burn the holy flag!

The media contrived overarching narrative that defines each 'side', has led them both to adopt ridiculous, but firm stances on many issues. On the left, you have your anti-vaccers, anti-GMOers, or those crying for "equitable pay for women". They rally against such erroneous notions as 'American Rape Culture'.

On the right... They are made to believe welfare recipients are all poor, lazy drug addicts, who don't want to work. The are told that our military has grown frail and must be rebuilt, Planned parenthood is a baby killing factory, and that defending the unfettered greed of corporate America is virtuous. That the scientific community, educational institutions, and the government are conspiring against them, and that the media (Aside from Fox News and Breitbart) is 'Liberal' witchcraft, and wants to turn their children into little nancy queers, equipped with trigger warnings and safe-spaces.

Hopefully we will find a way to build our foundations on substantiatable truth, rather than emotion fueled, reactionary conjecture. At least Trump has blurred the line between left and right-wing rhetoric. He's a mixed bag, and that bag remixes twice daily.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (12/03/16 10:54 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #23892103 -

speaking of the fringe of science, it's not always right. good example. Andrew Wakefield, his fraudulent paper got published in a peer reviewed journal too. in some ways he is the raindrop that started a storm, and that storm is horribly under-informed antivaxxers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23892178 -

bodhisatta said:
speaking of the fringe of science, it's not always right. good example. Andrew Wakefield, his fraudulent paper got published in a peer reviewed journal too. in some ways he is the raindrop that started a storm, and that storm is horribly under-informed antivaxxers



Yes, there are many of those. How about the studies that 'proved' tobacco didn't cause lung cancer, and leaded gasoline was safe.

Of course, in the case of unleaded gasoline, the maverick scientist who stood against established wisdom was mocked and shunned for a period, though his case was hardly refutable.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (12/03/16 11:37 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23892298 -

I'm glad there's no more smog days. in general at least things move in the right direction even if they take 10 steps back before the 11 forward

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23892844 -

Idk the smog can get pretty bad even up in Oregon in inversion weather :shrug:

But I agree in the case of places like LA certainly


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bernie 2016! [Re: twighead]
    #23892975 -

anyone seen a film called the age of stupid?


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < First | | 231 | 232 | 233 | 234 | 235 | 236 | 237 | 238 | 239 | 240 | 241 | 242 | 243 | 244 | 245 | 246 | 247 | 248 | 249 | 250 | 251 |

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Bernie sanders speech from 1992 speaks volumes today Maroon 455 8 02/10/16 05:14 PM
by prescottfry
* Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland!
( 1 2 3 4 ... 74 75 )
Bigbadwooof 52,510 1,494 10/16/19 12:01 AM
by The Ecstatic
* All Aboard the Campaign Train, Let's Talk 2016
( 1 2 3 4 ... 39 40 )
The Ecstatic 31,828 794 10/24/16 03:51 PM
by The Ecstatic
* CNN finally concedes that Bernie is a legitimate contender!
( 1 2 3 4 ... 10 11 all )
Bigbadwooof 10,356 206 01/25/16 05:56 PM
by Falcon91Wolvrn03
* Ladies, and Gentlemen, Now Presenting, for the 2016 Elections.... starfire_xes 1,081 16 06/25/15 02:08 AM
by Bigbadwooof
* Does Bernie Sanders have a chance?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 17 18 )
Count of Sabugosa 17,842 340 10/24/15 02:40 PM
by KauaiOrca
* Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet!
( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all )
Bigbadwooof 13,219 236 07/29/15 11:39 PM
by Bigbadwooof
* . *DELETED*
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
BlackWidow 4,549 94 02/27/16 03:33 PM
by Falcon91Wolvrn03

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
120,517 topic views. 4 members, 7 guests and 78 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.035 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 18 queries.