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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22103331 - 08/17/15 04:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:

While lowering the corporate tax rate is a good idea, more or less a no brainer, simply dropping it to 5% as you foolishly suggest without plugging any loopholes means even more companies would pay zero tax, not less of them. Even if the min tax was 5%, that would mean less money coming in. Put down the bottle of commie rotgut and try to sober up.






As usual, you ignore the posts and inject what you want to hear.  I said a 5% tax rate with elimination of the usual loopholes and tax evasion bullshit.  An honest 5% and if that's too complex, take a straight 3% off top line sales.  Super clean.  No baloney.  No deductions. Just take top line sales and send in 3% and it doesn't matter onshore or offshore if you've want to do business in the US  you pay 3% of everything. 

And foolishly, as before, you disagree with things you can't even understand like a knee jerk against your shadow.  Instead of asking questions to gain knowledge and understanding, you thrash out like a child.  You don't need to sober up, you need to grow up.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22103375 - 08/17/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Stonehenge said:

While lowering the corporate tax rate is a good idea, more or less a no brainer, simply dropping it to 5% as you foolishly suggest without plugging any loopholes means even more companies would pay zero tax, not less of them. Even if the min tax was 5%, that would mean less money coming in. Put down the bottle of commie rotgut and try to sober up.






As usual, you ignore the posts and inject what you want to hear.  I said a 5% tax rate with elimination of the usual loopholes and tax evasion bullshit.  An honest 5% and if that's too complex, take a straight 3% off top line sales.  Super clean.  No baloney.  No deductions. Just take top line sales and send in 3% and it doesn't matter onshore or offshore if you've want to do business in the US  you pay 3% of everything. 

And foolishly, as before, you disagree with things you can't even understand like a knee jerk against your shadow.  Instead of asking questions to gain knowledge and understanding, you thrash out like a child.  You don't need to sober up, you need to grow up.

And, like the nice little wealth class pet you are, you completely ignore that the bottom level of the corporation makes MORE MONEY which reduces their dependence on Government subsidies/handouts and puts more money right back into the real economy and the other hidden motivation that only BBW saw which is that this plan will motivate shareholders to want to voluntarily cut the pay gap because it is in their best interest to lower the overall tax rates.

You miss, as usual, the bigger picture.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (08/17/15 04:22 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22103648 - 08/17/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You got a stutter?

You make a vague statement about the "usual loopholes" which tells us you have no clue what you are talking about or you would be specific. I thought you were a big corporation man, if so then you would have specific ideas rather than vague moonbat rhetoric.

Exactly what loopholes do you want to close and how to do it? You say drop the rate to 5%, is that the max rate or min rate or both? These things are what tell us you are an observer from the sidelines rather than a player or ex player.

Everyone I have met who was very successful at business believes in the system, they don't snipe with goofy ideas, they talk about what works and what doesn't. Almost all are against onerous govt regulations.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22103667 - 08/17/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

alright stones, i know you took me off ignore, so address the short advertisement that i posted earlier.  you really don't think we have some regulatory loopholes that need closing?  Does it seem like a good idea to you to let companies make all their money selling to americans, yet claim that the money was made in the bahamas for tax purposes?


--------------------


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22103687 - 08/17/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
You got a stutter?

You make a vague statement about the "usual loopholes" which tells us you have no clue what you are talking about or you would be specific. I thought you were a big corporation man, if so then you would have specific ideas rather than vague moonbat rhetoric.

Exactly what loopholes do you want to close and how to do it? You say drop the rate to 5%, is that the max rate or min rate or both? These things are what tell us you are an observer from the sidelines rather than a player or ex player.

Everyone I have met who was very successful at business believes in the system, they don't snipe with goofy ideas, they talk about what works and what doesn't. Almost all are against onerous govt regulations.




The way large corporations sidestep their tax obligations are varied and complex.  Whether it's lobbying for different forms of corporate welfare, use offshore shell companies or complex financial engineering tricks and accounting gimmicks, what we need to do is shut these things down to the maximum extent possible.  Simply ask an large accounting firm for a method that would insure that ALL profits on ALL in come is taxed at a flat 5%.

However, I think it might be even better to take tax revenue off of corporations directly off the top line ... Get out of the deductions and financial engineering/gimmick nonsense completely.  One number to calculate ... What were top line sales?  What we want is a system that is the same for ALL corporations, large or small.  Keep in mind this is form companies that choose the option of the lower tax rate because they have voluntarily agreed to drop the pay gap in their companies from top to bottom to no ore than 25X and that includes outsourcing and off shoring to full or part time employees that make their products or service their customers no matter where they live. 

I owned a small, simple LLC with only 60 employees ... I don't consider myself a large corporate tax expert nor do I want to be.  My taxes were relatively simple although they involved filing in about 20 states as well as a federal return. 

You don't know many business people if everyone you know "believes in the system"  ... Trump has been saying since the get go that the corporate tax system is a complete disaster ... so did Romney ...


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22103880 - 08/17/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You don't have to support every stupid thing the govt does to believe in the system. I never said that. However, they do believe in capitalism and in the American way by and large. Damn few successful businessmen are on the far left.

Your plan is starting to fill in the many holes, but its still weak.

>Simply ask an large accounting firm for a method that would insure that ALL profits on ALL in come is taxed at a flat 5%.

They already ask taxpayers to pay tax on money made outside the country. They beat the system as I told you by basing their headquarters overseas and claiming to be an irish corp for example. If you disallow all deductions then why should they invest in the company or the product if they have to pay taxes on those investments right away? A company could lose money and would owe taxes under your scheme.

> Keep in mind this is form companies that choose the option of the lower tax rate because they have voluntarily agreed to drop the pay gap in their companies from top to bottom to no ore than 25X 

There is no option, if taxes are going to be dramatically lower, they have to capitulate or lose their market share to companies with lower tax overhead.

> and that includes outsourcing and off shoring to full or part time employees that make their products or service their customers no matter where they live.

So if they buy parts from china they have to pay them the same as usa workers? Have you thought this through at all? They have separate companies operating in each country. I would like to see offshoring reduced a lot but this is not the right way.

There are many ways to dodge the 25x, I already outlined a few. You are also ignoring the fact that foreign companies will squeak loudly and their home countries have treaties with us which would allow retaliation, perhaps through some piece of crap European court. Ofumbles has already signed away our sovereignty or is about to.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #22103925 - 08/17/15 06:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
You don't have to support every stupid thing the govt does to believe in the system. I never said that. However, they do believe in capitalism and in the American way by and large. Damn few successful businessmen are on the far left.

Your plan is starting to fill in the many holes, but its still weak.

>Simply ask an large accounting firm for a method that would insure that ALL profits on ALL in come is taxed at a flat 5%.

They already ask taxpayers to pay tax on money made outside the country. They beat the system as I told you by basing their headquarters overseas and claiming to be an irish corp for example. If you disallow all deductions then why should they invest in the company or the product if they have to pay taxes on those investments right away? A company could lose money and would owe taxes under your scheme.

> Keep in mind this is form companies that choose the option of the lower tax rate because they have voluntarily agreed to drop the pay gap in their companies from top to bottom to no ore than 25X 

There is no option, if taxes are going to be dramatically lower, they have to capitulate or lose their market share to companies with lower tax overhead.

> and that includes outsourcing and off shoring to full or part time employees that make their products or service their customers no matter where they live.

So if they buy parts from china they have to pay them the same as usa workers? Have you thought this through at all? They have separate companies operating in each country. I would like to see offshoring reduced a lot but this is not the right way.

There are many ways to dodge the 25x, I already outlined a few. You are also ignoring the fact that foreign companies will squeak loudly and their home countries have treaties with us which would allow retaliation, perhaps through some piece of crap European court. Ofumbles has already signed away our sovereignty or is about to.




You're a weak, timid, chicken shit complainer that shoots holes in ideas and lacks the courage to do anything bold.  Sometimes, you gotta start a new track and figure out the problems along the way. That's how new bold changes begin.  Nothing is bullet proof from the start.  Look at our current tax code it's completely f'd up.  There are obvious solutions to every barrier you've thrown up.  Start the 25x with US employees and full time employees that the company outsources work to overseas as in Foxconn employees dedicated to Apple products or call center employees in India taking calls for Visa. Let's deal with 75% of the problem before we get our panties all bundled up about 25% of it.  Then, steadily chip away at the 25% with a good non partisan group that comes up with a solution.

Shareholders will love it.  That's the key.  So will employees at the lower end of the pay spectrum.  Who will hate it?  The top paid execs ... tough shit.  Leave and open your own company because there are many, many competent managers, ready and eager to take a million dollar salary to run these companies.  Company morale will go way up and so will consumer spending power.

You are so brainwashed by the uber wealth class that you're effectively an obedient pet of theirs.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (08/17/15 06:40 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22103945 - 08/17/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

>Sometimes, you gotta start a new track and figure out the problems along the way.

You need a plan, something you are obviously unaware of.

There is no point in talking to a moron like you. Piss off.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #22103969 - 08/17/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
>Sometimes, you gotta start a new track and figure out the problems along the way.

You need a plan, something you are obviously unaware of.

There is no point in talking to a moron like you. Piss off.




You have no plan.  You have stupid pissy complaints and name calling.  What a weakling.  I have a very clear plan.  A new corporate tax option that drops the tax rate dramatically, eliminates loopholes and deductions and is based on a commitment to a much smaller wage gap.  That pisses you off.  LMAO.  Why? Because you're a tool and a pet of the uber wealth class ... a programmed obedient corporate puppy that argues for those that are fleecing the global economy.  What a wuss.  Grow a set.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22104596 - 08/17/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I want to talk more about the idea that success should be rewarded.

CEO's sure do make a lot of money, and they are successful people. I agree that that success should be rewarded. However, they should not be the ones deciding their income level.

If you want to talk about hard work being rewarded, or success being rewarded, you can't only talk about the CEO's. You also must talk about the middle managers, the Nurses who have been successful in life, etc. There are people other than CEO's who deserve to be rewarded for their hard work and success. Why does it jump from $100,000 to $10,000,000,000 just because you're one or two rungs up?

It shouldn't. Pay should be spread more equitably, so that everyone within a company is compensated based on their work, their success, and their contribution, etc.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22105538 - 08/18/15 06:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
You have stupid pissy complaints and name calling.




Quote:

  What a weakling.




Quote:

Because you're a tool and a pet of the uber wealth class ... a programmed obedient corporate puppy that argues for those that are fleecing the global economy.  What a wuss.  Grow a set.




Quote:

You're a weak, timid, chicken shit complainer




Ah, the hypocrisy.  :lmafo:

How... unsurprising.

Do you get this annoyed IRL when people laugh at your dumb ideas?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22105585 - 08/18/15 07:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Do you get this annoyed IRL when people laugh at your dumb ideas?




Learned a long time ago that great ideas are always laughed at, then criticized then misunderstood, then accepted.  You and your bud Stonehenge are locked into an archaic type of thinking that is pushed by an uber wealth class that has turned you into an obedient pet that advocates for their interests.  That's OK, that's how it works.  The tax idea we've been discussing is an option that generates more flexibility for corporations, greater returns for shareholders, improved morale in the company, much smaller pay gap and true shared prosperity in terms of how all employees benefit from profits.  It puts senior management and the labor force on the same page in terms of building prosperity and has the added benefit of reducing government dependence by shrinking  how many full time employees are still living in poverty.  Yet, you advocate for your wealthy brainwashers.  Fascinating.

If we did three simple things we'd see a rapid transformation of the economy:

1) Give labor an equal voice in the corporate boardroom of publicly traded corporations similar to the way Germany does.
2) Offer a corporate tax reducing option to voluntarily shrink the pay gap as described
3) Incorporate some of the direct democracy principles of Switzerland, a country that has the most refined democracy system on the planet

Hey, if it gets you excited to advocate like a puppy for the ultra wealthy, have at it.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22105698 - 08/18/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So the short answer is... yes, you do get this annoyed IRL when people laugh at your dumb ideas.

Got it. Let us know when you actually have a great idea.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22105705 - 08/18/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So the short answer is... yes, you do get this annoyed IRL when people laugh at your dumb ideas.

Got it. Let us know when you actually have a great idea.




I gave you three an you have no substantive response ... just insults. 

Why specifically would giving labor an equal voice with shareholders in the corporate boardroom be a "dumb" idea?  Keep in mind that this is how german publicly traded companies are managed and their efficiency levels and productivity is quite remarkable.

Take a crack at a substantive response for a change.  It will be a refreshing departure from your usual nonsense.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22105742 - 08/18/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, the hypocrisy...

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
You have stupid pissy complaints and name calling.




Quote:

  What a weakling.




Quote:

Because you're a tool and a pet of the uber wealth class ... a programmed obedient corporate puppy that argues for those that are fleecing the global economy.  What a wuss.  Grow a set.




Quote:

You're a weak, timid, chicken shit complainer




Ah, the hypocrisy.  :lmafo:

Businesses are not there to serve 'labor', 'labor' is there to serve businesses. If the owners of a business wish to involve 'labor', that's their right. Just as it is if they don't wish to. If 'labor' wants an equal stake, let them buy one the same way the shareholders do.

Here's a thought... you and 'labor' start a business. Give 'labor' as much power as you wish.

In the meantime, whining like a child about 'insults' merely adds to the reek of hypocrisy you emit.

You gave no great ideas. You do have laughable ones aplenty though.

"Great ideas"  :laugh2:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22105776 - 08/18/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Ah, the hypocrisy.  :lmafo:

Businesses are not there to serve 'labor', 'labor' is there to serve businesses. If the owners of a business wish to involve 'labor', that's their right. Just as it is if they don't wish to. If 'labor' wants an equal stake, let them buy one the same way the shareholders do.

Here's a thought... you and 'labor' start a business. Give 'labor' as much power as you wish.

In the meantime, whining like a child about 'insults' merely adds to the reek of hypocrisy you emit.

You gave no great ideas. You do have laughable ones aplenty though.

"Great ideas"  :laugh2:




Once again, you parrot the nonsense of the Uber Wealth Class that spoon feeds you a belief system that ties you to them like a little puppy.  You mindlessly repeat silly slogans you've been programmed to believe.  You have no ideas, no solutions, just a worn out batch of Uber Wealth Class nonsense that has been proven over and over to increase the wealth gap, buy off politicians, strip the planet of resources, privatize the profits and socialize the risks/costs. 

Grow beyond the slogan parroting.  Think.  Ask yourself why you mindlessly support a predatory wealth class?  You can learn and grow but it takes effort.  It's worth it.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #22105819 - 08/18/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Businesses are not there to serve 'labor', 'labor' is there to serve businesses.




Founding Fathers wrote at length that the purpose of a corporation is to serve the public interest or public good.  You've got homework to do.  They were deeply suspicious that corporations were the biggest threat to the success of the country.  Many wanted to outlaw them completely.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 17 minutes
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22105823 - 08/18/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Do you get this annoyed IRL when people laugh at your dumb ideas?




Learned a long time ago that great ideas are always laughed at, then criticized then misunderstood, then accepted.  You and your bud Stonehenge are locked into an archaic type of thinking that is pushed by an uber wealth class that has turned you into an obedient pet that advocates for their interests.  That's OK, that's how it works.  The tax idea we've been discussing is an option that generates more flexibility for corporations, greater returns for shareholders, improved morale in the company, much smaller pay gap and true shared prosperity in terms of how all employees benefit from profits.  It puts senior management and the labor force on the same page in terms of building prosperity and has the added benefit of reducing government dependence by shrinking  how many full time employees are still living in poverty.  Yet, you advocate for your wealthy brainwashers.  Fascinating.

If we did three simple things we'd see a rapid transformation of the economy:

1) Give labor an equal voice in the corporate boardroom of publicly traded corporations similar to the way Germany does.
2) Offer a corporate tax reducing option to voluntarily shrink the pay gap as described
3) Incorporate some of the direct democracy principles of Switzerland, a country that has the most refined democracy system on the planet

Hey, if it gets you excited to advocate like a puppy for the ultra wealthy, have at it.




I think #1 and #2 are decent ideas.  The fact of the matter is, there's a problem. 

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/walmart-stores-inc-wmt-is-down-sharply-after-q2-report-disappoints-20150818-00504

You can't have most of the money funnel upwards and expect everything to workout economically, demand is eroding and there's no end in sight.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: qman]
    #22105834 - 08/18/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:


I think #1 and #2 are decent ideas.  The fact of the matter is, there's a problem. 

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/walmart-stores-inc-wmt-is-down-sharply-after-q2-report-disappoints-20150818-00504

You can't have most of the money funnel upwards and expect everything to workout economically, demand is eroding and there's no end in sight.




The return on capital is WAY out of whack with the return on labor.  Adam Smith wrote about this at length.  The way out of this problem is to find ways that more and more of the income a corporation generates finds its way to LABOR and less of it goes to shareholder and executive payouts through giant bonuses, dividends, buybacks, financial engineering tricks, etc.  That is the answer because it generates increased consumer spending power and will improve the overall morale and output of the corporation.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 17 minutes
Re: Bernie draws 28,000 in LA and the same in Portland! [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22105874 - 08/18/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:


I think #1 and #2 are decent ideas.  The fact of the matter is, there's a problem. 

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/walmart-stores-inc-wmt-is-down-sharply-after-q2-report-disappoints-20150818-00504

You can't have most of the money funnel upwards and expect everything to workout economically, demand is eroding and there's no end in sight.




The return on capital is WAY out of whack with the return on labor.  Adam Smith wrote about this at length.  The way out of this problem is to find ways that more and more of the income a corporation generates finds its way to LABOR and less of it goes to shareholder and executive payouts through giant bonuses, dividends, buybacks, financial engineering tricks, etc.  That is the answer because it generates increased consumer spending power and will improve the overall morale and output of the corporation.




One of the main problems we have today that complicates the whole issue is globalization.  US companies use cheaper labor outside of the country while also finding new consumers in the global market, they are no longer dependent on their own labor/non labor having consumer spending power.

Even during the Great Depression companies were very concerned with labor's ability to help the economy, that mindset is no longer there with the onset of globalization.


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