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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21906221 - 07/06/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
It isn't implausible that Bernie Sanders could win the DNC, since democrats are an indignant people who feel the world owes them something and whoever comes along promising the most free shit usually wins their hearts and votes.




Democrats are indignant people who feel the world owes them something? You Right wingers are fucking NUTS! lmao

Look, bruh, we democrats feel that our tax dollars should go towards the betterment of society.




How is taking money from rich people and rewarding lazy slobs for doing nothing bettering society?

Quote:

Bernie Sanders wants to repair our infrastructure, while Republicans feel that bombing and rebuilding other countries is a more sound investment.



Don't act like War is solely the domain of the republicans. The only thing I agree with Sanders on is High speed rail infrastructure, but he is incredibly wrong about how to go about it. When the Federal interstate bill was passed it did so less out of a necessity and more about the Federal government grabbing more power. The Federal government can and has used the interstate funds to force states into complying with federal mandates such as drinking age (which has nothing to do with interstate funding).
The conservative view of massive public works is that eminent domain has to be used as well as the impact it has upon home and land values. Then when a bunch of rich people don't want a loud high speed rail next to their subdivision they lobby to have it moved to the ghetto and then, like always, you have liberals whining about the "unfairness" of getting what they wished for...

Quote:

You want to talk about entitled? Republicans feel that big business is entitled to raid our treasury when their poor business policies run them bankrupt! Republicans feel we should have a tax law that exempts the wealthy from paying on capital gains (Which is what the income tax was exclusively intended to tax in the first fucking place).



The bailouts so far have actually made the federal government money. The concept of taxing people based on success isn't really a good motivational tool for "the betterment of society"... especially when you also give that money taken from people with success and reward it to people with failure (or not even trying). Not really a sound concept.
and no, it isn't the same thing as TARP funds, because no one is paying shit back for food stamps and the litany of other social crutches afforded the lazy and degenerate.

Quote:

Look, you and yours can get indignant on behalf of billionaires, while we get 'indignant' on behalf of the laborers that created those billionaires. Republicans are more than indignant, they are belligerent, which is why, as we all know, they will not take the oval office, and they will not take the Senate.




keep denying the sinusoidal pattern of everything. Democrats have such a problem with pragmatism.

Quote:

Republicans are a dying breed (Literally). Quit crying and move into the 21st century already. Even Adam Smith believed in regulation on behalf of workers, believe it or not, look it up. The only reason Capitalism has survived is because of social programs. You start taking people's healthcare, minimum wage, food subsidies, etc, and you will quickly find yourself living in a socialist society.



"If you are young and not liberal, then you have no heart; but if you are old and not conservative, then you have no brain"

Quote:

If the minimum wage isn't raised, you have absolutely no right to cry about people being on welfare. If a company can't afford to pay their workers, then they don't deserve to be in business.



Demanding the minimum wage be raised is like saying "my wish to put forth the minimal amount of effort and utter lack of ambition should be monetarily incentivized better". Guarantee that you raise the operating cost of someone dropping fries into a vat of grease that the job of dropping fries into a vat of grease will cease to exist.
I agree that we are disincentivizing financial autonomy by allowing someone to make more money by not working for minimum wage... but that is backwards logic to think that we need to increase minimum wage. We need to decrease welfare benefits drastically and make sure that minimum wage merely keeps up with inflation.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21906700 - 07/06/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

> How is taking money from rich people and rewarding lazy slobs for doing nothing bettering society?

Aww shit! I forgot, only rich people work hard! The factory workers putting in 80 hours a week for $25,000 a year don't do a damn thing for the economy or the country. That's why Reagan gave them tax hikes, and reduced taxes on those hard working wealthy people, like Paris Hilton!

I have a feeling you don't understand what Capitalism is. One of the fundamentals of Capitalism is that the Capitalist (Owner of the capital) has a passive income, and earns a significantly disproportionate amount of money for the labor of other people. Nobody ever worked for a billion dollars. They capitalized.

> The bailouts so far have actually made the federal government money. The concept of taxing people based on success isn't really a good motivational tool for "the betterment of society"... especially when you also give that money taken from people with success and reward it to people with failure (or not even trying). Not really a sound concept.
and no, it isn't the same thing as TARP funds, because no one is paying shit back for food stamps and the litany of other social crutches afforded the lazy and degenerate.

Wow, you have a very interesting view of the poor. This idea that the poor are poor because their lazy is a common misconception. I guess in your world social mobility is a given. Maybe you didn't realize that most people on food stamps actually have a job, and many of them work full time. Shit, many of them have bachelor's degrees that they worked hard for.

The bailouts have made the federal government money! Well gee, that's great. The Federal government could have received a much higher return on investment in a variety of different ways, such as investing in research and development, which has been shown to give an economic return of somewhere in the ballpark of $1.75 on the dollar.

You don't want to reward success, you want to reward failure. That's what a bailout is. For every economist that agrees with your Reaganomic approach there are 4 who disagree.

> "If you are young and not liberal, then you have no heart; but if you are old and not conservative, then you have no brain."

This is a misquotation, and about as fallacious a statement as you could have made in response. There is a positive correlation between the level of educational attainment and liberalism, for what it's worth. Plenty of people with brains are liberal. In fact, one of the most liberal democrats in the senate (Elizabeth Warren) was a Harvard law professor. Try again, bruh. Next time bring out a conspiracy theory like the rest of your ilk.

> Demanding the minimum wage be raised is like saying "my wish to put forth the minimal amount of effort and utter lack of ambition should be monetarily incentivized better". Guarantee that you raise the operating cost of someone dropping fries into a vat of grease that the job of dropping fries into a vat of grease will cease to exist.
I agree that we are disincentivizing financial autonomy by allowing someone to make more money by not working for minimum wage... but that is backwards logic to think that we need to increase minimum wage. We need to decrease welfare benefits drastically and make sure that minimum wage merely keeps up with inflation.

"There were 260,000 Americans with bachelor's degrees earning the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour or less in 2013, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' newest annual snapshot of minimum wage workers. Another 200,000 associate's degree holders also worked for that wage." - http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/03/31/3420987/college-degree-minimum-wage/

Those lazy college grads! My god, they expect that after all those years of college they deserve more than $7.25/hour for their labor! Don't they know how hard corporate executives work for their multimillion dollar bonuses!?! Afterall, we all know that peoples yearly earnings have a directly inverse relationship with the amount of work they put in! This idea that all people making minimum wage are lazy is quite humorous. The minimum wage should certainly be raised, and the trade deals that force us to compete for labor with China should be done away with. Bernie Sanders is the only advocate of doing so, by the way.

I agree that the minimum wage needs to keep up with inflation. How about keeping up with inflation since 1968 for starters. If we had kept up, the minimum wage would be around $20/hour. I can live with that. Then let's index it for the future! ;-)

"Guarantee that you raise the operating cost of someone dropping fries into a vat of grease that the job of dropping fries into a vat of grease will cease to exist."

Would you put money on this statement? Because I can prove you wrong in 10 different ways. I think you need to educate yourself on just what in the fuck you're talking about. I'll have to check your trade rating before I take bets, of course.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21907173 - 07/06/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
> How is taking money from rich people and rewarding lazy slobs for doing nothing bettering society?

Aww shit! I forgot, only rich people work hard! The factory workers putting in 80 hours a week for $25,000 a year don't do a damn thing for the economy or the country. That's why Reagan gave them tax hikes, and reduced taxes on those hard working wealthy people, like Paris Hilton!




really? show me an american factory worker that works 80 hours a week and makes 25k a year. Try to be less hyperbolic when debating, citing ludicrous shit is a waste of everyones time. (also, use quotes like everyone else, this > is annoying. use bold or something else).

Quote:

I have a feeling you don't understand what Capitalism is. One of the fundamentals of Capitalism is that the Capitalist (Owner of the capital) has a passive income, and earns a significantly disproportionate amount of money for the labor of other people. Nobody ever worked for a billion dollars. They capitalized.



no, they worked, then risked their savings and house and marriage on an idea that no one thought would work... then they get to sit back and watch their money work for them. Anyone in this country can be a billionaire and it has very little to do with luck.

Quote:

Wow, you have a very interesting view of the poor. This idea that the poor are poor because their lazy is a common misconception. I guess in your world social mobility is a given. Maybe you didn't realize that most people on food stamps actually have a job, and many of them work full time. Shit, many of them have bachelor's degrees that they worked hard for.



holy shit, a bachelors degree! from a real university probably, not even one of those online colleges huh? I guess in your world, the hard part was just graduating college, because boy is that tough... and to do it with such an un specialized field that is deserving of a bachelor degree?
You are right... If spending 4 years passed out on a couch getting fingerbanged by a guy named Connor while occasionally attending classes on medieval poetry and remedial algebra doesn't ensure you a 6 figure job--then this country is fucked up.
There are plenty of billionaires without college degrees. College doesn't prepare anyone for the real world. College is to real life as pre-k is to college. I live in nashville and I see it all the time--people who act like since they chose to be an artist, songwriter whatever, that the world is unfair for not getting their big break. Fuck your liberal arts degree. Nobody is going to pay you to was intellectual about shit since the invention of the internet forum.
Having a college degree today doesn't mean shit. There is a company that is taking homeless people off the street and training them to code and hiring them after a few months. I can't stand this mentality that the world owes you something because you got a gold star.


Quote:

The bailouts have made the federal government money! Well gee, that's great. The Federal government could have received a much higher return on investment in a variety of different ways, such as investing in research and development, which has been shown to give an economic return of somewhere in the ballpark of $1.75 on the dollar.



well we should just suspend anything that the gov't spends money on and invest in China since that is going to have a nice return. What is the federal government getting out of subsidizing peoples poor choices in life? what do I get out of my dollar being handed to a guy who claims he is too depressed to work, or too fat, or both?

Quote:

You don't want to reward success, you want to reward failure. That's what a bailout is.



No, the bailouts were always loans and are being paid back with interest. 70% of the TARP money went to banks and Freddie mac, which in effect, was the federal government saving everyones ass for living far beyond their means and basically being deadbeat degenerate assclowns.


Quote:

This is a misquotation,



how is it a misquote? did I attribute it to anyone? it is a sentiment that has been said by very many great men in a variation of different ways.

Quote:

and about as fallacious a statement as you could have made in response. There is a positive correlation between the level of educational attainment and liberalism, for what it's worth. Plenty of people with brains are liberal. In fact, one of the most liberal democrats in the senate (Elizabeth Warren) was a Harvard law professor. Try again, bruh. Next time bring out a conspiracy theory like the rest of your ilk.



how is it a conspiracy theory? it was in response to you thinking that conservatives are dying out... my point was that new ones are made every day, especially around April 15th.

Quote:



Those lazy college grads! My god, they expect that after all those years of college they deserve more than $7.25/hour for their labor! Don't they know how hard corporate executives work for their multimillion dollar bonuses!?! Afterall, we all know that peoples yearly earnings have a directly inverse relationship with the amount of work they put in! This idea that all people making minimum wage are lazy is quite humorous. The minimum wage should certainly be raised, and the trade deals that force us to compete for labor with China should be done away with. Bernie Sanders is the only advocate of doing so, by the way.




oh, waaa, they deserve.... ha... they don't deserve anything. If you feel you aren't getting paid enough to dig ditches, then find someone willing to pay you more for your work or find another line of work. There will always be someone else happy to take your place (in a country where the government doesn't pay you more to sit on your ass than actually dig ditches).

Quote:

I agree that the minimum wage needs to keep up with inflation. How about keeping up with inflation since 1968 for starters. If we had kept up, the minimum wage would be around $20/hour. I can live with that. Then let's index it for the future! ;-)



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/20/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/

"Adjusted for inflation, the federal minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $8.54 (in 2014 dollars). Since it was last raised in 2009, to the current $7.25 per hour, the federal minimum has lost about 8.1% of its purchasing power to inflation. The Economist recently estimated that, given how rich the U.S. is and the pattern among other advanced economies in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, “one would expect America…to pay a minimum wage around $12 an hour.”



Quote:

"Guarantee that you raise the operating cost of someone dropping fries into a vat of grease that the job of dropping fries into a vat of grease will cease to exist."

Would you put money on this statement? Because I can prove you wrong in 10 different ways. I think you need to educate yourself on just what in the fuck you're talking about. I'll have to check your trade rating before I take bets, of course.




I could invent a machine tomorrow that would do the job.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21907427 - 07/06/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
show me an american factory worker that works 80 hours a week and makes 25k a year.



When he shows you this worker, send him my way.  That's a serious FLSA case waiting to happen.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21907523 - 07/06/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I see you're making the case that we all just disregard college, "work hard", put our families in jeopardy, and become billionaires, as you will be doing shortly. However, I would like to make a real world case that's not so fanciful.

I know you conservatives have some sort of disdain for education (Which is painfully apparent), but higher education is clearly conducive to a more robust economy. Also, there are surely many minimum wage earners with 'art' degrees, but there are also minimum wage earners with more serious degrees, and I will be happy to demonstrate that point if you wish, but I am fairly certain you know better.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/education-training-advantages.asp

"The data and analysis confirm that higher education is critical for socioeconomic advancement and an important driver of economic mobility.  Moreover, a well-educated workforce is vital to our nation’s future economic growth and competitiveness.  As state budgets have repeatedly come under stress, state support for higher education has declined as a share of funding for public higher education. "

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Documents/The%20Economics%20of%20Higher%20Education_REPORT%20CLEAN.pdf

I should also point out that earning a Bachelor's degree is not so simple as you make it sound. Not everyone earns a degree while living in their parents basement.

"Alaska had the highest percentage of college students working  full-time, year-round (37 percent) and Massachusetts had the lowest percentage of college students working full-time, year-round (14 percent)."
https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-14.pdf

Raising the minimum wage does not decrease overall employment, and moreover, it gives the average consumer more expendable income, which has a positive impact on the economy. It reduces dependence on welfare programs, as people working full-time would not require their low wages to be subsidized by our tax dollars.

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21571894-president-proposes-hefty-increase-minimum-wage-trickle-up-economics

"more than 600 economists, seven of them Nobel Prize winners in economics, have signed onto a letter in support of raising the minimum wage"

"A June 2014 survey found that more than 3 out of 5 small business owners support increasing the minimum wage"

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

Quote:

how is it a conspiracy theory? it was in response to you thinking that conservatives are dying out... my point was that new ones are made every day, especially around April 15th.




I didn't say that it was a conspiracy theory.

The conservative population has been trending downward since 2009, while liberals have been on a steady climb.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183386/social-ideology-left-catches-right.aspx

You know, I could go on an on, and I might, if you bring a decent argument to the table. I would like to part, for now, with one tasty little piece of cud for you to chew:

http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8

Conservatives have been mooching off those 'lazy liberals' for years!!! lmao


--------------------
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Every one of you should see this video.
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Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/06/15 10:11 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
    #21907536 - 07/06/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
show me an american factory worker that works 80 hours a week and makes 25k a year.



When he shows you this worker, send him my way.  That's a serious FLSA case waiting to happen.




I may have exaggerated, however, I have worked side by side with people in factories who were making $8/hour, working 80 hours a week. At that rate they take home roughly $40k, without any layoffs, and there are always layoffs periodically throughout the year. These are not lazy people.


--------------------
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FARTS
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"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21907691 - 07/06/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

dude, you are so full of shit with your anecdotal stories.

think about what an 80 hour work week entails. It only happens to certain professions occasionally and definitely not laborers.


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21907694 - 07/06/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

My dad worked 80 hours a week unloading boxcars and trucks.  He only did that for 4 years, though.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21907739 - 07/06/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I know you conservatives have some sort of disdain for education (Which is painfully apparent), but higher education is clearly conducive to a more robust economy. Also, there are surely many minimum wage earners with 'art' degrees, but there are also minimum wage earners with more serious degrees, and I will be happy to demonstrate that point if you wish, but I am fairly certain you know better.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/education-training-advantages.asp




This link has nothing to do with anything as shown from what you quoted... are you even lucid? As if making the obvious case for literacy improves the economy.... no shit. Who is even arguing that? Colleges are currently offering "careers" for medical billing and coding when more than half of the medical industry has done away with that antiquated system and the rest are in the process of making the transition.

and conservatives hate education? what?

Quote:

I should also point out that earning a Bachelor's degree is not so simple as you make it sound. Not everyone earns a degree while living in their parents basement.



30% of americans have bachelors degrees... not exactly an elite club there.
I have lived on my own since senior year of high school, got an associates degree in 1 year. I will bet good money you are posting from your dorm room right now that mommy and daddy paid for. Probably at the Peoples republic of Berkeley.

Quote:

"Alaska had the highest percentage of college students working  full-time, year-round (37 percent) and Massachusetts had the lowest percentage of college students working full-time, year-round (14 percent)."
https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-14.pdf




do you think that just because you provide a link, no matter how non-sequitir it is, that it gives your argument credence?

Quote:

Raising the minimum wage does not decrease overall employment, and moreover, it gives the average consumer more expendable income, which has a positive impact on the economy. It reduces dependence on welfare programs, as people working full-time would not require their low wages to be subsidized by our tax dollars.




"The consequences of minimum-wage increases, at the historical levels studied in the U.S., are well known to labor economists. A summary of the research published last year by the Institute for the Study of Labor, and authored by University of California-Irvine economist David Neumark, found that each 10% hike in the minimum wage on the state and federal level has caused a 1% to 2% drop in youth employment. Similarly, researchers at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago found an increase in fast-food prices associated with the same wage change.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/michael-saltsman-the-unappetizing-effect-of-minimum-wage-hikes-1427240817

"Thanks to a quirk in California law that prohibits full-service restaurants from counting tips as income, other operators—who were forced to give their best-paid employees a raise—are rethinking their business model by eliminating tips as they raise prices.

Ironically, this change in compensation practices has reduced the take-home pay for some of the employees it was supposed to help: At the Oakland restaurant Homestead, the East Bay Express reported that servers are taking “a substantial pay cut,” earning a flat wage of $18 to $24 an hour and no tips instead of the $35 to $55 an hour they were accustomed to earning when tips were included.



Quote:

"more than 600 economists, seven of them Nobel Prize winners in economics, have signed onto a letter in support of raising the minimum wage"

"A June 2014 survey found that more than 3 out of 5 small business owners support increasing the minimum wage"




and 4 out of 5 dentists prefer (insert any toothpaste here).


Quote:



You know, I could go on an on, and I might, if you bring a decent argument to the table. I would like to part, for now, with one tasty little piece of cud for you to chew:

http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8

Conservatives have been mooching off those 'lazy liberals' for years!!! lmao




http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/09/the_myth_of_red_state_welfare.html

you really need to get mommy and daddy to pay for a statistics course so you don't look like a fool all the time. When you base a premise on only one recent election it makes educated people realize that the entire basis is flimsy at best.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
    #21907753 - 07/06/15 11:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
My dad worked 80 hours a week unloading boxcars and trucks.  He only did that for 4 years, though.



what decade? also, he was probably cheating on your mom...


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21907798 - 07/06/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
dude, you are so full of shit with your anecdotal stories.

think about what an 80 hour work week entails. It only happens to certain professions occasionally and definitely not laborers.




Actually, labor jobs are probably the main line of work where people do work 80+ hours. I speak from actual experience. You speak from ?


--------------------
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FARTS
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"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21907873 - 07/06/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
dude, you are so full of shit with your anecdotal stories.

think about what an 80 hour work week entails. It only happens to certain professions occasionally and definitely not laborers.




Actually, labor jobs are probably the main line of work where people do work 80+ hours. I speak from actual experience. You speak from ?




wouldn't know, but my butlers butler said he broke a sweat having the lawn leathered...

but seriously, my line of work sometimes requires 36 hours straight... but I was smart enough to go into a career where I am hired from the neck up. Doubt anyone can claim to actually work for 80 hours... maybe they are at work 80 hours that include union breaks, but every factory owner will tell you that anything over 60 hours will actually lead to decreased productivity.


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21907917 - 07/07/15 12:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The quote I posted was from the link I posted below the quote. Yes, I am quite lucid ;-). You may not be though, as you seem to have quite clearly made the argument that college is not the way to success, some early American fantasy of entrepreneurship is how one becomes successful today. You should know that most venture capitalists have college degrees.


Quote:

30% of americans have bachelors degrees... not exactly an elite club there.
I have lived on my own since senior year of high school, got an associates degree in 1 year. I will bet good money you are posting from your dorm room right now that mommy and daddy paid for. Probably at the Peoples republic of Berkeley.




You quite literally know absolutely nothing about my private life, and for the sake of your own intellectual integrity you would do well not to make such inferences. Straw Men have no place in intellectual discussion, after all.

Quote:

do you think that just because you provide a link, no matter how non-sequitir it is, that it gives your argument credence?




Do you really need me to hold your hand through the entire learning process? It was hardly a 'non-sequitir', as I was clearly making the point that a large portion of college students are hard working people, which is demonstrated by the proportion of them working full time while attending college.


Quote:

"The consequences of minimum-wage increases, at the historical levels studied in the U.S., are well known to labor economists. A summary of the research published last year by the Institute for the Study of Labor, and authored by University of California-Irvine economist David Neumark, found that each 10% hike in the minimum wage on the state and federal level has caused a 1% to 2% drop in youth employment. Similarly, researchers at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago found an increase in fast-food prices associated with the same wage change.




Your study addresses a small portion of the economy. The references I made, demonstrate the effect on the economy as a whole. Is your sole concern high school students, or the welfare of the entire economy? Also, why is a fast food price increase a major concern here? Did all food prices increase? Does it have a drastic effect on the economy? I think not. Irrelevant.

Quote:

Ironically, this change in compensation practices has reduced the take-home pay for some of the employees it was supposed to help: At the Oakland restaurant Homestead, the East Bay Express reported that servers are taking “a substantial pay cut,” earning a flat wage of $18 to $24 an hour and no tips instead of the $35 to $55 an hour they were accustomed to earning when tips were included.




Is taking away tips a necessary consequence of raising wages? Nope.

Quote:

Quote:

"more than 600 economists, seven of them Nobel Prize winners in economics, have signed onto a letter in support of raising the minimum wage"

"A June 2014 survey found that more than 3 out of 5 small business owners support increasing the minimum wage"




and 4 out of 5 dentists prefer (insert any toothpaste here).




My argument certainly carries more weight than that.

Quote:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/09/the_myth_of_red_state_welfare.html

you really need to get mommy and daddy to pay for a statistics course so you don't look like a fool all the time. When you base a premise on only one recent election it makes educated people realize that the entire basis is flimsy at best.




Must you really offer up another ad-hominem? Do you find strength in fallacious reasoning? When you start your arguments with ad-hominems, it makes educated people realize that the entire basis of argument is flimsy at best. Which it is. Your source would have us believe that it takes 50 years for a state to develop the ideological stance it holds today. The term 'conservative' didn't even mean what it means today 50 years ago. The right wing has stooped further and further right with each passing election cycle. It would actually be more disingenuous to appeal to a states ideological standing 50 years ago.

You know, you actually embolden my case. As conservative leaders reach further into their right-wing tool bag, they reach deeper into the federal coin purse.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
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Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/07/15 12:26 AM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21908039 - 07/07/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
dude, you are so full of shit with your anecdotal stories.

think about what an 80 hour work week entails. It only happens to certain professions occasionally and definitely not laborers.




Actually, labor jobs are probably the main line of work where people do work 80+ hours. I speak from actual experience. You speak from ?




wouldn't know, but my butlers butler said he broke a sweat having the lawn leathered...

but seriously, my line of work sometimes requires 36 hours straight... but I was smart enough to go into a career where I am hired from the neck up. Doubt anyone can claim to actually work for 80 hours... maybe they are at work 80 hours that include union breaks, but every factory owner will tell you that anything over 60 hours will actually lead to decreased productivity.




I'm sure you don't know any fishermen. Regardless, years ago I worked in an auto factory. I worked 3 straight months 84 hours a week, and 72 hours for the remainder of the year, with a 2 week layoff in July.  I was taking amphetamines every day, I had an hourly quota which I always met.

You may not know the true meaning of hard work (Though you like to throw the word 'lazy' around a lot), but some of us do, and yes people do work over 80 hours a week. Hell, I worked over 90 hours in one week at a furniture manufacturing company when I was 19, and I know people who have done more than that.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/07/15 12:52 AM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21908432 - 07/07/15 06:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Assuming it's been the same person this whole time, sneezingpenis is at least 10 years old.


But I know 8 year olds with a more nuanced understanding of American politics.


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21909953 - 07/07/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lets get rid of all the billionaires and millionaires since woofed says they are no good. Take over the factories and put minorities in charge. Welcome to the good old uss of r. Instead of raising taxes, take everything they make and "give" them back a tiny portion to live on. That will make them go out and work.


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21910046 - 07/07/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Lets get rid of all the billionaires and millionaires since woofed says they are no good. Take over the factories and put minorities in charge. Welcome to the good old uss of r. Instead of raising taxes, take everything they make and "give" them back a tiny portion to live on. That will make them go out and work.




Nobody is advocating that. Stop strawmanning. If you don't understand the argument, then please refrain from participation.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21910100 - 07/07/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I did the math, if you worked 80 hours a week(which is quite a lot, but doable) on minimum wage, you'd make slightly over 30k a year. That's not including any sort of vacation or sick days.


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
    #21910321 - 07/07/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Achillita said:
I did the math, if you worked 80 hours a week(which is quite a lot, but doable) on minimum wage, you'd make slightly over 30k a year. That's not including any sort of vacation or sick days.




The Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25. Multiply $7.25 by 40 hours = 290. Beyond that you're making overtime wages, so $7.25 X 1.5 = $10.88/Overtime Hour. Multiply $10.88 X 40 = $435.2 + $290 = $725.2/week. $725.2 X 52 = $37710 per year. Now we factor in taxes. I'm just going to low-ball and say 18% taxes. It varies from one state to the next.

So, $37710 X 0.82 (The share you keep after 18% tax) = $30,922.

So, yes, a person making minimum wage, working 80 hours a week, every single week of the year, takes home roughly $31,000.

Not too far off from the $25,000 I originally stated. I've known plenty of temp workers in factories working 60+ hours a week for minimum wage. They are not lazy people. I knew one person who was a temp for 2 years, because factories know how to play the system.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21910456 - 07/07/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Raise the min to $100 then everyone will be able to afford a rolls Royce. Why are you so stingy?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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