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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet!
#21889655 - 07/02/15 07:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people. Far more than any other candidate. I guess integrity speaks volumes. Maybe money isn't a very valuable form of 'speech' afterall!
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/01/politics/bernie-sanders-crowds-wisconsin-2016/
CNN of course maintains that he's not even running a serious campaign, and that Hillary has already been nominated! Lmao
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21890031 - 07/02/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I read that earlier. Encouraging news indeed!
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Le_Canard]
#21890314 - 07/02/15 09:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It don't matter what the stinkin' people want. Goldman Sachs has already preordained JEB! and HILLARY as the only 2 people capable of occupying a seat in the Crony Capitalist High Priesthood.
And both the DNC and RNC are doing everything they can to keep out the Pagans.
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: starfire_xes]
#21890339 - 07/02/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Heathen devil pagans... like Bernie Sanders!?!
I think you're forgetting who votes, just as Goldman Sachs has forgotten. If they hadn't forgotten, they would have picked someone other than Jebb. Hillary seems to be a hit on the left, but her popularity is going down.
The last poll I saw had Bernie at 35 and Hillary at 41, I believe.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21890361 - 07/02/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Heathen devil pagans... like Bernie Sanders!?!
I think you're forgetting who votes, just as Goldman Sachs has forgotten. If they hadn't forgotten, they would have picked someone other than Jebb. Hillary seems to be a hit on the left, but her popularity is going down.
The last poll I saw had Bernie at 35 and Hillary at 41, I believe.
actually, i saw he was down 15 i believe, on average but I could be wrong. Yes, that is my point though, they have forgotten that people vote BUT: they haven't forgot that their are enough stupid, Low-Info's on both sides of the aisle that they will convince them to go for the Ordained High Priest lest the other side get their own man in there.
And it don't matter if it's Hillary or JEB! that the Big Boys get throned, as long as the gravy train keeps rolling.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: starfire_xes]
#21890405 - 07/02/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Heathen devil pagans... like Bernie Sanders!?!
I think you're forgetting who votes, just as Goldman Sachs has forgotten. If they hadn't forgotten, they would have picked someone other than Jebb. Hillary seems to be a hit on the left, but her popularity is going down.
The last poll I saw had Bernie at 35 and Hillary at 41, I believe.
actually, i saw he was down 15 i believe, on average but I could be wrong. Yes, that is my point though, they have forgotten that people vote BUT: they haven't forgot that their are enough stupid, Low-Info's on both sides of the aisle that they will convince them to go for the Ordained High Priest lest the other side get their own man in there.
And it don't matter if it's Hillary or JEB! that the Big Boys get throned, as long as the gravy train keeps rolling.
Well, the gravy train may keep rolling, but they'll soon break the tracks.
I don't quite understand what they intend to do when they irreparably destroy the global economy. Do they think we will respect their ownership of wealth, property, or their bankroll? Apparently this part is lost on me.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21890431 - 07/02/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Do they think we will respect their ownership of wealth, property, or their bankroll? Apparently this part is lost on me.
Let me give you the simple answer to this: How many military divisions do we (the people) have? Get it?
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: starfire_xes]
#21890432 - 07/02/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: It don't matter what the stinkin' people want. Goldman Sachs has already preordained JEB! and HILLARY as the only 2 people capable of occupying a seat in the Crony Capitalist High Priesthood.
And both the DNC and RNC are doing everything they can to keep out the Pagans. 
Sadly, you are right. But we can hope against hope....
But you know what, maybe we can break this cyle of Wall St weasels dictating our lives and governments. If enough folks support and vote for Bernie, we could do it!
Edited by Le_Canard (07/02/15 10:33 PM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: starfire_xes]
#21893161 - 07/03/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: It don't matter what the stinkin' people want. Goldman Sachs has already preordained JEB! and HILLARY as the only 2 people capable of occupying a seat in the Crony Capitalist High Priesthood.
And both the DNC and RNC are doing everything they can to keep out the Pagans. 
I would normally be on par with your cynicism, but this is different. The Koch brothers aren't spending $1,000,000,000 to alter votes for shits and gigs.
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: starfire_xes]
#21893424 - 07/03/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Do they think we will respect their ownership of wealth, property, or their bankroll? Apparently this part is lost on me.
Let me give you the simple answer to this: How many military divisions do we (the people) have? Get it?
Who are those military divisions comprised of? People with American family?
Those military divisions are ours, not theirs.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
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Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21893655 - 07/03/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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wow, 10,000.... Ron Paul used to draw crowds like that....
Save yourself a lot of heartache, give up on Sanders.
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21893667 - 07/03/15 05:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said: wow, 10,000.... Ron Paul used to draw crowds like that....
Save yourself a lot of heartache, give up on Sanders.
I don't find Ron Paul's situation and Bernie's to be very similar. Ron Paul was more of an extremist than Sanders. The country in general tends to be more liberal in their values. Bernie is only running against one person (Effectively), and he's getting a lot more coverage than Ron Paul got.
Also, I think at this point, America is dying for a third party candidate. America wants change, that's why they voted for Obama. They didn't get it, but they still want it.
Sanders also comes off more trustworthy than any other candidate that I know of, and I think his clear integrity is something Americans are hungry for!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21893771 - 07/03/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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look, I was where you were 4 years ago with Ron Paul. I am watching the events unfold and it is an exact copy of how the Ron Paul campaign went. Even the comments from people is the exact same.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21894391 - 07/03/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was a huge Ron Paul supporter, and I remember anxiously watching his campaign. It's different, as I have explained.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21902790 - 07/05/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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while BS may be "sincere", I think the idea of him being a serious candidate is laughable, many forget who nominates the candidates, its the DNC and RNC establishment, not the voters. HC and BS are both where Hillary was at this point in '07. My guess at this point is it would be Julian Castro...
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21903032 - 07/05/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: while BS may be "sincere", I think the idea of him being a serious candidate is laughable, many forget who nominates the candidates, its the DNC and RNC establishment, not the voters. HC and BS are both where Hillary was at this point in '07. My guess at this point is it would be Julian Castro...
Three questions for you, bro...
1) Are you a government shill? 2) Do you shill professionally for the government? 3) Would I be correct in saying that you are a government shill?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21904744 - 07/06/15 09:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: while BS may be "sincere", I think the idea of him being a serious candidate is laughable, many forget who nominates the candidates, its the DNC and RNC establishment, not the voters. HC and BS are both where Hillary was at this point in '07. My guess at this point is it would be Julian Castro...
Yeah the people would never get behind a populist candidate enough to get him the nomination instead of Hillary.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21905751 - 07/06/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It isn't implausible that Bernie Sanders could win the DNC, since democrats are an indignant people who feel the world owes them something and whoever comes along promising the most free shit usually wins their hearts and votes.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21905765 - 07/06/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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- Donald J. Trump
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21905849 - 07/06/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said: It isn't implausible that Bernie Sanders could win the DNC, since democrats are an indignant people who feel the world owes them something and whoever comes along promising the most free shit usually wins their hearts and votes.
Democrats are indignant people who feel the world owes them something? You Right wingers are fucking NUTS! lmao
Look, bruh, we democrats feel that our tax dollars should go towards the betterment of society. Bernie Sanders wants to repair our infrastructure, while Republicans feel that bombing and rebuilding other countries is a more sound investment. You want to talk about entitled? Republicans feel that big business is entitled to raid our treasury when their poor business policies run them bankrupt! Republicans feel we should have a tax law that exempts the wealthy from paying on capital gains (Which is what the income tax was exclusively intended to tax in the first fucking place).
Look, you and yours can get indignant on behalf of billionaires, while we get 'indignant' on behalf of the laborers that created those billionaires. Republicans are more than indignant, they are belligerent, which is why, as we all know, they will not take the oval office, and they will not take the Senate.
Republicans are a dying breed (Literally). Quit crying and move into the 21st century already. Even Adam Smith believed in regulation on behalf of workers, believe it or not, look it up. The only reason Capitalism has survived is because of social programs. You start taking people's healthcare, minimum wage, food subsidies, etc, and you will quickly find yourself living in a socialist society.
If the minimum wage isn't raised, you have absolutely no right to cry about people being on welfare. If a company can't afford to pay their workers, then they don't deserve to be in business.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/06/15 04:01 PM)
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21906221 - 07/06/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
SneezingPenis said: It isn't implausible that Bernie Sanders could win the DNC, since democrats are an indignant people who feel the world owes them something and whoever comes along promising the most free shit usually wins their hearts and votes.
Democrats are indignant people who feel the world owes them something? You Right wingers are fucking NUTS! lmao
Look, bruh, we democrats feel that our tax dollars should go towards the betterment of society.
How is taking money from rich people and rewarding lazy slobs for doing nothing bettering society?
Quote:
Bernie Sanders wants to repair our infrastructure, while Republicans feel that bombing and rebuilding other countries is a more sound investment.
Don't act like War is solely the domain of the republicans. The only thing I agree with Sanders on is High speed rail infrastructure, but he is incredibly wrong about how to go about it. When the Federal interstate bill was passed it did so less out of a necessity and more about the Federal government grabbing more power. The Federal government can and has used the interstate funds to force states into complying with federal mandates such as drinking age (which has nothing to do with interstate funding). The conservative view of massive public works is that eminent domain has to be used as well as the impact it has upon home and land values. Then when a bunch of rich people don't want a loud high speed rail next to their subdivision they lobby to have it moved to the ghetto and then, like always, you have liberals whining about the "unfairness" of getting what they wished for...
Quote:
You want to talk about entitled? Republicans feel that big business is entitled to raid our treasury when their poor business policies run them bankrupt! Republicans feel we should have a tax law that exempts the wealthy from paying on capital gains (Which is what the income tax was exclusively intended to tax in the first fucking place).
The bailouts so far have actually made the federal government money. The concept of taxing people based on success isn't really a good motivational tool for "the betterment of society"... especially when you also give that money taken from people with success and reward it to people with failure (or not even trying). Not really a sound concept. and no, it isn't the same thing as TARP funds, because no one is paying shit back for food stamps and the litany of other social crutches afforded the lazy and degenerate.
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Look, you and yours can get indignant on behalf of billionaires, while we get 'indignant' on behalf of the laborers that created those billionaires. Republicans are more than indignant, they are belligerent, which is why, as we all know, they will not take the oval office, and they will not take the Senate.
keep denying the sinusoidal pattern of everything. Democrats have such a problem with pragmatism.
Quote:
Republicans are a dying breed (Literally). Quit crying and move into the 21st century already. Even Adam Smith believed in regulation on behalf of workers, believe it or not, look it up. The only reason Capitalism has survived is because of social programs. You start taking people's healthcare, minimum wage, food subsidies, etc, and you will quickly find yourself living in a socialist society.
"If you are young and not liberal, then you have no heart; but if you are old and not conservative, then you have no brain"
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If the minimum wage isn't raised, you have absolutely no right to cry about people being on welfare. If a company can't afford to pay their workers, then they don't deserve to be in business.
Demanding the minimum wage be raised is like saying "my wish to put forth the minimal amount of effort and utter lack of ambition should be monetarily incentivized better". Guarantee that you raise the operating cost of someone dropping fries into a vat of grease that the job of dropping fries into a vat of grease will cease to exist. I agree that we are disincentivizing financial autonomy by allowing someone to make more money by not working for minimum wage... but that is backwards logic to think that we need to increase minimum wage. We need to decrease welfare benefits drastically and make sure that minimum wage merely keeps up with inflation.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21906700 - 07/06/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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> How is taking money from rich people and rewarding lazy slobs for doing nothing bettering society?
Aww shit! I forgot, only rich people work hard! The factory workers putting in 80 hours a week for $25,000 a year don't do a damn thing for the economy or the country. That's why Reagan gave them tax hikes, and reduced taxes on those hard working wealthy people, like Paris Hilton!
I have a feeling you don't understand what Capitalism is. One of the fundamentals of Capitalism is that the Capitalist (Owner of the capital) has a passive income, and earns a significantly disproportionate amount of money for the labor of other people. Nobody ever worked for a billion dollars. They capitalized.
> The bailouts so far have actually made the federal government money. The concept of taxing people based on success isn't really a good motivational tool for "the betterment of society"... especially when you also give that money taken from people with success and reward it to people with failure (or not even trying). Not really a sound concept. and no, it isn't the same thing as TARP funds, because no one is paying shit back for food stamps and the litany of other social crutches afforded the lazy and degenerate.
Wow, you have a very interesting view of the poor. This idea that the poor are poor because their lazy is a common misconception. I guess in your world social mobility is a given. Maybe you didn't realize that most people on food stamps actually have a job, and many of them work full time. Shit, many of them have bachelor's degrees that they worked hard for.
The bailouts have made the federal government money! Well gee, that's great. The Federal government could have received a much higher return on investment in a variety of different ways, such as investing in research and development, which has been shown to give an economic return of somewhere in the ballpark of $1.75 on the dollar.
You don't want to reward success, you want to reward failure. That's what a bailout is. For every economist that agrees with your Reaganomic approach there are 4 who disagree.
> "If you are young and not liberal, then you have no heart; but if you are old and not conservative, then you have no brain."
This is a misquotation, and about as fallacious a statement as you could have made in response. There is a positive correlation between the level of educational attainment and liberalism, for what it's worth. Plenty of people with brains are liberal. In fact, one of the most liberal democrats in the senate (Elizabeth Warren) was a Harvard law professor. Try again, bruh. Next time bring out a conspiracy theory like the rest of your ilk.
> Demanding the minimum wage be raised is like saying "my wish to put forth the minimal amount of effort and utter lack of ambition should be monetarily incentivized better". Guarantee that you raise the operating cost of someone dropping fries into a vat of grease that the job of dropping fries into a vat of grease will cease to exist. I agree that we are disincentivizing financial autonomy by allowing someone to make more money by not working for minimum wage... but that is backwards logic to think that we need to increase minimum wage. We need to decrease welfare benefits drastically and make sure that minimum wage merely keeps up with inflation.
"There were 260,000 Americans with bachelor's degrees earning the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour or less in 2013, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' newest annual snapshot of minimum wage workers. Another 200,000 associate's degree holders also worked for that wage." - http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/03/31/3420987/college-degree-minimum-wage/
Those lazy college grads! My god, they expect that after all those years of college they deserve more than $7.25/hour for their labor! Don't they know how hard corporate executives work for their multimillion dollar bonuses!?! Afterall, we all know that peoples yearly earnings have a directly inverse relationship with the amount of work they put in! This idea that all people making minimum wage are lazy is quite humorous. The minimum wage should certainly be raised, and the trade deals that force us to compete for labor with China should be done away with. Bernie Sanders is the only advocate of doing so, by the way.
I agree that the minimum wage needs to keep up with inflation. How about keeping up with inflation since 1968 for starters. If we had kept up, the minimum wage would be around $20/hour. I can live with that. Then let's index it for the future! ;-)
"Guarantee that you raise the operating cost of someone dropping fries into a vat of grease that the job of dropping fries into a vat of grease will cease to exist."
Would you put money on this statement? Because I can prove you wrong in 10 different ways. I think you need to educate yourself on just what in the fuck you're talking about. I'll have to check your trade rating before I take bets, of course.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21907173 - 07/06/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: > How is taking money from rich people and rewarding lazy slobs for doing nothing bettering society?
Aww shit! I forgot, only rich people work hard! The factory workers putting in 80 hours a week for $25,000 a year don't do a damn thing for the economy or the country. That's why Reagan gave them tax hikes, and reduced taxes on those hard working wealthy people, like Paris Hilton!
really? show me an american factory worker that works 80 hours a week and makes 25k a year. Try to be less hyperbolic when debating, citing ludicrous shit is a waste of everyones time. (also, use quotes like everyone else, this > is annoying. use bold or something else).
Quote:
I have a feeling you don't understand what Capitalism is. One of the fundamentals of Capitalism is that the Capitalist (Owner of the capital) has a passive income, and earns a significantly disproportionate amount of money for the labor of other people. Nobody ever worked for a billion dollars. They capitalized.
no, they worked, then risked their savings and house and marriage on an idea that no one thought would work... then they get to sit back and watch their money work for them. Anyone in this country can be a billionaire and it has very little to do with luck.
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Wow, you have a very interesting view of the poor. This idea that the poor are poor because their lazy is a common misconception. I guess in your world social mobility is a given. Maybe you didn't realize that most people on food stamps actually have a job, and many of them work full time. Shit, many of them have bachelor's degrees that they worked hard for.
holy shit, a bachelors degree! from a real university probably, not even one of those online colleges huh? I guess in your world, the hard part was just graduating college, because boy is that tough... and to do it with such an un specialized field that is deserving of a bachelor degree? You are right... If spending 4 years passed out on a couch getting fingerbanged by a guy named Connor while occasionally attending classes on medieval poetry and remedial algebra doesn't ensure you a 6 figure job--then this country is fucked up. There are plenty of billionaires without college degrees. College doesn't prepare anyone for the real world. College is to real life as pre-k is to college. I live in nashville and I see it all the time--people who act like since they chose to be an artist, songwriter whatever, that the world is unfair for not getting their big break. Fuck your liberal arts degree. Nobody is going to pay you to was intellectual about shit since the invention of the internet forum. Having a college degree today doesn't mean shit. There is a company that is taking homeless people off the street and training them to code and hiring them after a few months. I can't stand this mentality that the world owes you something because you got a gold star.
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The bailouts have made the federal government money! Well gee, that's great. The Federal government could have received a much higher return on investment in a variety of different ways, such as investing in research and development, which has been shown to give an economic return of somewhere in the ballpark of $1.75 on the dollar.
well we should just suspend anything that the gov't spends money on and invest in China since that is going to have a nice return. What is the federal government getting out of subsidizing peoples poor choices in life? what do I get out of my dollar being handed to a guy who claims he is too depressed to work, or too fat, or both?
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You don't want to reward success, you want to reward failure. That's what a bailout is.
No, the bailouts were always loans and are being paid back with interest. 70% of the TARP money went to banks and Freddie mac, which in effect, was the federal government saving everyones ass for living far beyond their means and basically being deadbeat degenerate assclowns.
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This is a misquotation,
how is it a misquote? did I attribute it to anyone? it is a sentiment that has been said by very many great men in a variation of different ways.
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and about as fallacious a statement as you could have made in response. There is a positive correlation between the level of educational attainment and liberalism, for what it's worth. Plenty of people with brains are liberal. In fact, one of the most liberal democrats in the senate (Elizabeth Warren) was a Harvard law professor. Try again, bruh. Next time bring out a conspiracy theory like the rest of your ilk.
how is it a conspiracy theory? it was in response to you thinking that conservatives are dying out... my point was that new ones are made every day, especially around April 15th.
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Those lazy college grads! My god, they expect that after all those years of college they deserve more than $7.25/hour for their labor! Don't they know how hard corporate executives work for their multimillion dollar bonuses!?! Afterall, we all know that peoples yearly earnings have a directly inverse relationship with the amount of work they put in! This idea that all people making minimum wage are lazy is quite humorous. The minimum wage should certainly be raised, and the trade deals that force us to compete for labor with China should be done away with. Bernie Sanders is the only advocate of doing so, by the way.
oh, waaa, they deserve.... ha... they don't deserve anything. If you feel you aren't getting paid enough to dig ditches, then find someone willing to pay you more for your work or find another line of work. There will always be someone else happy to take your place (in a country where the government doesn't pay you more to sit on your ass than actually dig ditches).
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I agree that the minimum wage needs to keep up with inflation. How about keeping up with inflation since 1968 for starters. If we had kept up, the minimum wage would be around $20/hour. I can live with that. Then let's index it for the future! ;-)
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/20/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/
"Adjusted for inflation, the federal minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $8.54 (in 2014 dollars). Since it was last raised in 2009, to the current $7.25 per hour, the federal minimum has lost about 8.1% of its purchasing power to inflation. The Economist recently estimated that, given how rich the U.S. is and the pattern among other advanced economies in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, “one would expect America…to pay a minimum wage around $12 an hour.”
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"Guarantee that you raise the operating cost of someone dropping fries into a vat of grease that the job of dropping fries into a vat of grease will cease to exist."
Would you put money on this statement? Because I can prove you wrong in 10 different ways. I think you need to educate yourself on just what in the fuck you're talking about. I'll have to check your trade rating before I take bets, of course.
I could invent a machine tomorrow that would do the job.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21907427 - 07/06/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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SneezingPenis said: show me an american factory worker that works 80 hours a week and makes 25k a year.
When he shows you this worker, send him my way. That's a serious FLSA case waiting to happen.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21907523 - 07/06/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I see you're making the case that we all just disregard college, "work hard", put our families in jeopardy, and become billionaires, as you will be doing shortly. However, I would like to make a real world case that's not so fanciful.
I know you conservatives have some sort of disdain for education (Which is painfully apparent), but higher education is clearly conducive to a more robust economy. Also, there are surely many minimum wage earners with 'art' degrees, but there are also minimum wage earners with more serious degrees, and I will be happy to demonstrate that point if you wish, but I am fairly certain you know better.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/education-training-advantages.asp
"The data and analysis confirm that higher education is critical for socioeconomic advancement and an important driver of economic mobility. Moreover, a well-educated workforce is vital to our nation’s future economic growth and competitiveness. As state budgets have repeatedly come under stress, state support for higher education has declined as a share of funding for public higher education. "
http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Documents/The%20Economics%20of%20Higher%20Education_REPORT%20CLEAN.pdf
I should also point out that earning a Bachelor's degree is not so simple as you make it sound. Not everyone earns a degree while living in their parents basement.
"Alaska had the highest percentage of college students working full-time, year-round (37 percent) and Massachusetts had the lowest percentage of college students working full-time, year-round (14 percent)." https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-14.pdf
Raising the minimum wage does not decrease overall employment, and moreover, it gives the average consumer more expendable income, which has a positive impact on the economy. It reduces dependence on welfare programs, as people working full-time would not require their low wages to be subsidized by our tax dollars.
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21571894-president-proposes-hefty-increase-minimum-wage-trickle-up-economics
"more than 600 economists, seven of them Nobel Prize winners in economics, have signed onto a letter in support of raising the minimum wage"
"A June 2014 survey found that more than 3 out of 5 small business owners support increasing the minimum wage"
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm
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how is it a conspiracy theory? it was in response to you thinking that conservatives are dying out... my point was that new ones are made every day, especially around April 15th.
I didn't say that it was a conspiracy theory.
The conservative population has been trending downward since 2009, while liberals have been on a steady climb.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183386/social-ideology-left-catches-right.aspx
You know, I could go on an on, and I might, if you bring a decent argument to the table. I would like to part, for now, with one tasty little piece of cud for you to chew:
http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8
Conservatives have been mooching off those 'lazy liberals' for years!!! lmao
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/06/15 10:11 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21907536 - 07/06/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
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SneezingPenis said: show me an american factory worker that works 80 hours a week and makes 25k a year.
When he shows you this worker, send him my way. That's a serious FLSA case waiting to happen.
I may have exaggerated, however, I have worked side by side with people in factories who were making $8/hour, working 80 hours a week. At that rate they take home roughly $40k, without any layoffs, and there are always layoffs periodically throughout the year. These are not lazy people.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21907691 - 07/06/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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dude, you are so full of shit with your anecdotal stories.
think about what an 80 hour work week entails. It only happens to certain professions occasionally and definitely not laborers.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21907694 - 07/06/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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My dad worked 80 hours a week unloading boxcars and trucks. He only did that for 4 years, though.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21907739 - 07/06/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: I know you conservatives have some sort of disdain for education (Which is painfully apparent), but higher education is clearly conducive to a more robust economy. Also, there are surely many minimum wage earners with 'art' degrees, but there are also minimum wage earners with more serious degrees, and I will be happy to demonstrate that point if you wish, but I am fairly certain you know better.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/education-training-advantages.asp
This link has nothing to do with anything as shown from what you quoted... are you even lucid? As if making the obvious case for literacy improves the economy.... no shit. Who is even arguing that? Colleges are currently offering "careers" for medical billing and coding when more than half of the medical industry has done away with that antiquated system and the rest are in the process of making the transition.
and conservatives hate education? what?
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I should also point out that earning a Bachelor's degree is not so simple as you make it sound. Not everyone earns a degree while living in their parents basement.
30% of americans have bachelors degrees... not exactly an elite club there. I have lived on my own since senior year of high school, got an associates degree in 1 year. I will bet good money you are posting from your dorm room right now that mommy and daddy paid for. Probably at the Peoples republic of Berkeley.
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"Alaska had the highest percentage of college students working full-time, year-round (37 percent) and Massachusetts had the lowest percentage of college students working full-time, year-round (14 percent)." https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-14.pdf
do you think that just because you provide a link, no matter how non-sequitir it is, that it gives your argument credence?
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Raising the minimum wage does not decrease overall employment, and moreover, it gives the average consumer more expendable income, which has a positive impact on the economy. It reduces dependence on welfare programs, as people working full-time would not require their low wages to be subsidized by our tax dollars.
"The consequences of minimum-wage increases, at the historical levels studied in the U.S., are well known to labor economists. A summary of the research published last year by the Institute for the Study of Labor, and authored by University of California-Irvine economist David Neumark, found that each 10% hike in the minimum wage on the state and federal level has caused a 1% to 2% drop in youth employment. Similarly, researchers at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago found an increase in fast-food prices associated with the same wage change. http://www.wsj.com/articles/michael-saltsman-the-unappetizing-effect-of-minimum-wage-hikes-1427240817
"Thanks to a quirk in California law that prohibits full-service restaurants from counting tips as income, other operators—who were forced to give their best-paid employees a raise—are rethinking their business model by eliminating tips as they raise prices.
Ironically, this change in compensation practices has reduced the take-home pay for some of the employees it was supposed to help: At the Oakland restaurant Homestead, the East Bay Express reported that servers are taking “a substantial pay cut,” earning a flat wage of $18 to $24 an hour and no tips instead of the $35 to $55 an hour they were accustomed to earning when tips were included.
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"more than 600 economists, seven of them Nobel Prize winners in economics, have signed onto a letter in support of raising the minimum wage"
"A June 2014 survey found that more than 3 out of 5 small business owners support increasing the minimum wage"
and 4 out of 5 dentists prefer (insert any toothpaste here).
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You know, I could go on an on, and I might, if you bring a decent argument to the table. I would like to part, for now, with one tasty little piece of cud for you to chew:
http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8
Conservatives have been mooching off those 'lazy liberals' for years!!! lmao
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/09/the_myth_of_red_state_welfare.html
you really need to get mommy and daddy to pay for a statistics course so you don't look like a fool all the time. When you base a premise on only one recent election it makes educated people realize that the entire basis is flimsy at best.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21907753 - 07/06/15 11:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Enlil said: My dad worked 80 hours a week unloading boxcars and trucks. He only did that for 4 years, though.
what decade? also, he was probably cheating on your mom...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21907798 - 07/06/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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SneezingPenis said: dude, you are so full of shit with your anecdotal stories.
think about what an 80 hour work week entails. It only happens to certain professions occasionally and definitely not laborers.
Actually, labor jobs are probably the main line of work where people do work 80+ hours. I speak from actual experience. You speak from ?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21907873 - 07/06/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
SneezingPenis said: dude, you are so full of shit with your anecdotal stories.
think about what an 80 hour work week entails. It only happens to certain professions occasionally and definitely not laborers.
Actually, labor jobs are probably the main line of work where people do work 80+ hours. I speak from actual experience. You speak from ?
wouldn't know, but my butlers butler said he broke a sweat having the lawn leathered...
but seriously, my line of work sometimes requires 36 hours straight... but I was smart enough to go into a career where I am hired from the neck up. Doubt anyone can claim to actually work for 80 hours... maybe they are at work 80 hours that include union breaks, but every factory owner will tell you that anything over 60 hours will actually lead to decreased productivity.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21907917 - 07/07/15 12:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The quote I posted was from the link I posted below the quote. Yes, I am quite lucid ;-). You may not be though, as you seem to have quite clearly made the argument that college is not the way to success, some early American fantasy of entrepreneurship is how one becomes successful today. You should know that most venture capitalists have college degrees.
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30% of americans have bachelors degrees... not exactly an elite club there. I have lived on my own since senior year of high school, got an associates degree in 1 year. I will bet good money you are posting from your dorm room right now that mommy and daddy paid for. Probably at the Peoples republic of Berkeley.
You quite literally know absolutely nothing about my private life, and for the sake of your own intellectual integrity you would do well not to make such inferences. Straw Men have no place in intellectual discussion, after all.
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do you think that just because you provide a link, no matter how non-sequitir it is, that it gives your argument credence?
Do you really need me to hold your hand through the entire learning process? It was hardly a 'non-sequitir', as I was clearly making the point that a large portion of college students are hard working people, which is demonstrated by the proportion of them working full time while attending college.
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"The consequences of minimum-wage increases, at the historical levels studied in the U.S., are well known to labor economists. A summary of the research published last year by the Institute for the Study of Labor, and authored by University of California-Irvine economist David Neumark, found that each 10% hike in the minimum wage on the state and federal level has caused a 1% to 2% drop in youth employment. Similarly, researchers at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago found an increase in fast-food prices associated with the same wage change.
Your study addresses a small portion of the economy. The references I made, demonstrate the effect on the economy as a whole. Is your sole concern high school students, or the welfare of the entire economy? Also, why is a fast food price increase a major concern here? Did all food prices increase? Does it have a drastic effect on the economy? I think not. Irrelevant.
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Ironically, this change in compensation practices has reduced the take-home pay for some of the employees it was supposed to help: At the Oakland restaurant Homestead, the East Bay Express reported that servers are taking “a substantial pay cut,” earning a flat wage of $18 to $24 an hour and no tips instead of the $35 to $55 an hour they were accustomed to earning when tips were included.
Is taking away tips a necessary consequence of raising wages? Nope.
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Quote:
"more than 600 economists, seven of them Nobel Prize winners in economics, have signed onto a letter in support of raising the minimum wage"
"A June 2014 survey found that more than 3 out of 5 small business owners support increasing the minimum wage"
and 4 out of 5 dentists prefer (insert any toothpaste here).
My argument certainly carries more weight than that.
Quote:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/09/the_myth_of_red_state_welfare.html
you really need to get mommy and daddy to pay for a statistics course so you don't look like a fool all the time. When you base a premise on only one recent election it makes educated people realize that the entire basis is flimsy at best.
Must you really offer up another ad-hominem? Do you find strength in fallacious reasoning? When you start your arguments with ad-hominems, it makes educated people realize that the entire basis of argument is flimsy at best. Which it is. Your source would have us believe that it takes 50 years for a state to develop the ideological stance it holds today. The term 'conservative' didn't even mean what it means today 50 years ago. The right wing has stooped further and further right with each passing election cycle. It would actually be more disingenuous to appeal to a states ideological standing 50 years ago.
You know, you actually embolden my case. As conservative leaders reach further into their right-wing tool bag, they reach deeper into the federal coin purse.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/07/15 12:26 AM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21908039 - 07/07/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
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SneezingPenis said: dude, you are so full of shit with your anecdotal stories.
think about what an 80 hour work week entails. It only happens to certain professions occasionally and definitely not laborers.
Actually, labor jobs are probably the main line of work where people do work 80+ hours. I speak from actual experience. You speak from ?
wouldn't know, but my butlers butler said he broke a sweat having the lawn leathered...
but seriously, my line of work sometimes requires 36 hours straight... but I was smart enough to go into a career where I am hired from the neck up. Doubt anyone can claim to actually work for 80 hours... maybe they are at work 80 hours that include union breaks, but every factory owner will tell you that anything over 60 hours will actually lead to decreased productivity.
I'm sure you don't know any fishermen. Regardless, years ago I worked in an auto factory. I worked 3 straight months 84 hours a week, and 72 hours for the remainder of the year, with a 2 week layoff in July. I was taking amphetamines every day, I had an hourly quota which I always met.
You may not know the true meaning of hard work (Though you like to throw the word 'lazy' around a lot), but some of us do, and yes people do work over 80 hours a week. Hell, I worked over 90 hours in one week at a furniture manufacturing company when I was 19, and I know people who have done more than that.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/07/15 12:52 AM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21908432 - 07/07/15 06:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Assuming it's been the same person this whole time, sneezingpenis is at least 10 years old.
But I know 8 year olds with a more nuanced understanding of American politics.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21909953 - 07/07/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lets get rid of all the billionaires and millionaires since woofed says they are no good. Take over the factories and put minorities in charge. Welcome to the good old uss of r. Instead of raising taxes, take everything they make and "give" them back a tiny portion to live on. That will make them go out and work.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21910046 - 07/07/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Lets get rid of all the billionaires and millionaires since woofed says they are no good. Take over the factories and put minorities in charge. Welcome to the good old uss of r. Instead of raising taxes, take everything they make and "give" them back a tiny portion to live on. That will make them go out and work.
Nobody is advocating that. Stop strawmanning. If you don't understand the argument, then please refrain from participation.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21910100 - 07/07/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did the math, if you worked 80 hours a week(which is quite a lot, but doable) on minimum wage, you'd make slightly over 30k a year. That's not including any sort of vacation or sick days.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21910321 - 07/07/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: I did the math, if you worked 80 hours a week(which is quite a lot, but doable) on minimum wage, you'd make slightly over 30k a year. That's not including any sort of vacation or sick days.
The Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25. Multiply $7.25 by 40 hours = 290. Beyond that you're making overtime wages, so $7.25 X 1.5 = $10.88/Overtime Hour. Multiply $10.88 X 40 = $435.2 + $290 = $725.2/week. $725.2 X 52 = $37710 per year. Now we factor in taxes. I'm just going to low-ball and say 18% taxes. It varies from one state to the next.
So, $37710 X 0.82 (The share you keep after 18% tax) = $30,922.
So, yes, a person making minimum wage, working 80 hours a week, every single week of the year, takes home roughly $31,000.
Not too far off from the $25,000 I originally stated. I've known plenty of temp workers in factories working 60+ hours a week for minimum wage. They are not lazy people. I knew one person who was a temp for 2 years, because factories know how to play the system.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21910456 - 07/07/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Raise the min to $100 then everyone will be able to afford a rolls Royce. Why are you so stingy?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21912517 - 07/07/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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A wage that someone can actually live on would be very beneficial. If people who get paid minimum wage had more money, they'd be able to not use welfare or food stamps. If you complain about people in poverty using all your tax payer money, and yet you don't want to increase the minimum wage so workers can actually buy something is counter productive.
No one is thinking large amounts of money would fix everything, but the poor need a livable wage.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21913288 - 07/08/15 02:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: A wage that someone can actually live on would be very beneficial. If people who get paid minimum wage had more money, they'd be able to not use welfare or food stamps. If you complain about people in poverty using all your tax payer money, and yet you don't want to increase the minimum wage so workers can actually buy something is counter productive.
No one is thinking large amounts of money would fix everything, but the poor need a livable wage.
Yep. When full time employees require welfare programs for subsistence, we are literally using our tax dollars to subsidize business profits. If a business can't afford to pay people right, they shouldn't be in business.
The conservative approach makes absolutely no sense, and these assholes have the nerve to call us level-headed liberals 'craaazy' haha!
Their argument can be summed up simply: Anti-collective bargaining, no minimum wage, no trade regulation, and massive corporate tax cuts.
This is clearly a recipe for the disempowerment of labor, and the exacerbation of wealth inequality. You don't want workers to fight for higher wages, you don't want them to have a minimum wage, you don't want to have tarrifs on foreign goods to make American labor more competitive, and you wsnt to give massive tax gifts to the most powerful and wealthy folks in society, cuz their so special! 
Is this coherant to a man of sound mind? Fuck no.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21917967 - 07/09/15 03:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Their argument can be summed up simply: Anti-collective bargaining, no minimum wage, no trade regulation, and massive corporate tax cuts.
this actually PROVES conservatives are right, if you get rid of unions(right to work states) decrease regulation(unleash the private sector) and give businesses THEIR own fucking money to invest(tax cuts) you actually provide many jobs, which increases demand for labor, which raises wages, not artificially, but honestly...
would you like me to cite a RED right to work state that encourages investment, where NOBODY works for minimum wage???
Quote:
You don't want workers to fight for higher wages, you don't want them to have a minimum wage, you don't want to have tarrifs on foreign goods to make American labor more competitive, and you wsnt to give massive tax gifts to the most powerful and wealthy folks in society, cuz their so special!
so when you "gift" low skill workers with increased wages for no reason at all, is that because they're "special"???
Quote:
Is this coherant to a man of sound mind? Fuck no.
poppycock, a sound minded individual wouldn't be encouraging people to make careers out of flipping burgers...
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21918410 - 07/09/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The reason why a minimum wage exists, is so that the average worker, can work on a LIVABLE wage. If everyone has a job, but they are make 10000 dollars a year, that's not helping anything. It's putting people into poverty.
Raising the minimum wage locally and raising it nationally, change the outcome completely. American CEOs make the most money compared to their workers in the whole world. Billions and billions of dollars for nothing. Corporations try to funnel the money upwards often. Most large corporations like mcdonalds, the workers get less than 10% of the total profit. The MAJORITY of minimum wage workers, don't get even a large part of the profit.
The thing is, you shouldn't look down upon someone doing a job if it is minimum wage. They are just trying to live in a world we have created. Not everyone wants to sell retail, and many of them have college degrees. THey're trying to live, just as anyone else. Low level jobs will always exist, we just need people to be bale to live, so they aren't dependent on food stamps or welfare. Many people who do have welfare work full time jobs. Sometimes multiple of them as well.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21918435 - 07/09/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: The reason why a minimum wage exists, is so that the average worker, can work on a LIVABLE wage.
Do you have a source for this? This seems to be wholly inconsistent with summer jobs for students, etc. I doubt that minimum wage was ever intended to be the standard for unskilled, full-time labor.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21918533 - 07/09/15 09:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Even if it was never meant for that, it had definitely become so. I known countless of people, who have to work minimum wage and live. If minimum wage was not intended for unskilled labor, it has definitely come to it. There are very few places that won't pay you minimum wage.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/aboutdol/history/flsa1938.htm If you look through that link, it talks about how the minimum wage was put into place originally. It says consistently in there for the minimum wage to be a liveable wage at the time. And also how it was denied in many places.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21918541 - 07/09/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So, you'd be okay with a system that set the minimum at a "living wage" even if it meant that there were no more jobs for students, etc. to make a few bucks over the summer? Or would you advocate some second-tier minimum wage for certain jobs?
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Achillita
Back to the basics



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21918591 - 07/09/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think minimum wages should be enough for a single person to be able to live without reying on welfare and food stamps. While it is true, many students get part time jobs for extra money, we have to consider that there are many people who were unable to get a higher education or find a better paying job. These are the people that minimum wage effects the most.
At the moment, minimum wage is not a liveable wage. Not even considering the that many of these people have families or people they take care of. If you have both parents working full time in a household, and are reliant on food stamps, there is some sort of problem. No one is being "lazy".
I don't think that the minimum wage should be sky high, but I think you should be able to live off these wages. I even know a few students who work fulltime as a student and works minimum wage for the place they live.
I'm not sure how well a 2 tier minimum wage system would work, as it'd be very easy to manipulate it so that you still don't pay as much money. I don't claim to be an expert in talking about minimum wage, but I do know something is wrong. Many people complain about the use of food stamps or welfare, but they are a necessity for many hardworking people in the working class.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita] 1
#21918647 - 07/09/15 09:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said:
At the moment, minimum wage is not a liveable wage. Not even considering the that many of these people have families or people they take care of. If you have both parents working full time in a household, and are reliant on food stamps, there is some sort of problem. No one is being "lazy".
Minimum wage is a livable wage, though. It won't support a lifestyle of cell phones, cars, etc., but it will certainly support a lifestyle of renting a room with a bed and access to a toilet.
That's a far higher standard of living than most of the world enjoys.
Minimum wage should support a minimum lifestyle...not a life of luxury and comfort. Once someone works his/her way out of minimum wage, he/she can start adding luxuries.
BTW, having a child is a luxury...
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21918680 - 07/09/15 09:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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.
Edited by DieCommie (11/21/16 01:46 PM)
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
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Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: DieCommie]
#21918719 - 07/09/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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In the US, some sort of phone is nearly a necessity now. And while there are great plans for saving money(like 30 dollars a month, unlimited everything), the amount of money is still spread thin. Many jobs nearly require cell phones for contact for hours and other things. It never says so, but it is always recommended.
And taking care of older family, and children that either were accidents, or they were promised to to take care of.
To DieCommie, I agree that the strain on earth's natural resources are a big deal, we have to account for inflation. The real problem with the need to increase minimum wage is the need to decrease poverty. We have people who are nearly starving daily and requiring government help just to feed themselves. The way our whole economy works is wanting more, and trying to obtain it.
We do need to protect the environment, while also decreasing the poverty line, and the growing difference between the rich and the poor. The LARGE majority of the US's wealth goes to the upper class. THe lower and middle class are becoming poorer and poorer.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21918756 - 07/09/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: In the US, some sort of phone is nearly a necessity now. And while there are great plans for saving money(like 30 dollars a month, unlimited everything), the amount of money is still spread thin. Many jobs nearly require cell phones for contact for hours and other things. It never says so, but it is always recommended.
And taking care of older family, and children that either were accidents, or they were promised to to take care of.
I disagree. Lots of people get by without cell phones. Children are always a choice. There is no accidental childbirth.
The only reason you feel the way you do is because you can't see beyond your western entitlement ethic that somehow makes you feel like you shouldn't have to live below a certain standard. That ethic is inherently elitist, however, because it necessarily requires that most of the rest of the world live in conditions that you find unacceptable.
You do realize that this is a zero-sum game, right? There is a finite amount of resources on the planet. The U.S. has long enjoyed an incredibly high standard of living such that our poor live better than the bulk of the planet. You'd make that standard even higher, thus bringing down the rest of the planet further.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21918769 - 07/09/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The socialists keep demanding handouts and for a change enlil is on the right side of an issue. This may be a first!
Why should those doing bottom tier jobs, people who never invested in education or training and who have little experience get paid enough to support a family or live high on the hog?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21919143 - 07/09/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know that people an get by without cellphones, so I'll take that out of the equation. And yes while much of the world has low standards of living, the real problem that should be dealt with is starvation. Many in the US don't make enough money to eve feed themselves.
The bottom tier jobs are always going to be the majority of jobs, as it's how the world is built. If you have 100 people in middle management, there needs to be thousands below them. It's how big business works.
How many of you have lived below the poverty line? When I was a young child, my mom and my dad divorced, and since my dad wasn't mentally sound at the time, me and my sister lived with my mom. My mom would work 60 hours a week when she could, and otherwise we were homeless, living with her friends or family for weeks to months. We didn't have enough money to live in a permanent dwelling long, so she couldn't get a job or enough money, so we couldn't live in a permanent dwelling. We barely had enough to eat at most times.
It's a vicious cycle. And while I could care less about the stand of living that we have, we should be able to provide enough money for food and a home. As we advance in agriculture, we have more food than we ever were able to have. And yet, we still have people starving in this country and in the world. There are many techniques that could increase production further, without taking much land, but doing so would require a large amount of money to start, and would barely reap any sort of profit. It'd be just enough to keep the farm running.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21919198 - 07/09/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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How can someone be anti-contraception and anti-abortion but not want the babies born to have a good quality of life?
Wage slaves. That's the only reasonable answer I can think of.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21919199 - 07/09/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: Many in the US don't make enough money to eve feed themselves.
Really? Can you cite some source showing that there are masses of people in the U.S. dying of starvation?
Minimum wage is enough to feed oneself and get a roof to live under. Of course, why spend your money on food when you can get food stamps? People prioritize based on the current system, and that would be true at any standard of living.
The truth, however, is that a person can meet their basic living requirements on minimum wage.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21919217 - 07/09/15 10:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Minimum wage is enough to feed oneself and get a roof to live under.
And that's about it.
Quote:
The truth, however, is that a person can meet their basic living requirements on minimum wage.
Remember this one?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2013/07/18/why-mcdonalds-employee-budget-has-everyone-up-in-arms/
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21919221 - 07/09/15 10:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You don't need a wage of any kind to avoid starvation. There is free food in every major city in the US. I have never seen anybody in a starving state in the US, besides anorexics and tweakers, absolutely never. Its a myth invented by the left. If not, where are the statistics on how many people starve to death in the US?
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21919240 - 07/09/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Minimum wage is enough to feed oneself and get a roof to live under.
And that's about it.
The minimum wage in the US allows you to consume more than 90% of humanity consumes and more than the earth can sustain per capita. You lack perspective. Minimum wage is more than survivable. People on minimum wage have clothes, bicycles, electricity, running water, TVs, etc. Much more than just food and a roof. A bum with a tent at the soup kitchen has food and a roof.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21919241 - 07/09/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also, while there are many finite recources, many of them can be replaced with renewable resources, but that would cause many large companies to lose money. Bio fuel is one example.
There are many ways to work around the finite resources as we change our society. We need to become more resourceful and less wasteful. But it's not impossible to do such things.Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Achillita said: Many in the US don't make enough money to eve feed themselves.
Really? Can you cite some source showing that there are masses of people in the U.S. dying of starvation?
Minimum wage is enough to feed oneself and get a roof to live under. Of course, why spend your money on food when you can get food stamps? People prioritize based on the current system, and that would be true at any standard of living.
The truth, however, is that a person can meet their basic living requirements on minimum wage.
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm 14.3% of the US is fod insecure. While it isn't an overwhelming number, it is still very relevant. 5.6% of US household have reduced eating patterns or less frequent eating because of it. Poverty may not be fixed, but starvation can be.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21919249 - 07/09/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Minimum wage is enough to feed oneself and get a roof to live under.
And that's about it.
Everything else is a luxuryQuote:
Quote:
The truth, however, is that a person can meet their basic living requirements on minimum wage.
Remember this one?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2013/07/18/why-mcdonalds-employee-budget-has-everyone-up-in-arms/
I notice that budget has a car payment, cable and phone. How are those necessities?
The minimum should support the minimum. It's a simple concept.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: DieCommie]
#21919302 - 07/09/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Food security is more than rather or not you're literally starving. It's a mental health issue living under constant fear of not having enough food. Especially if you have kids. It's also a physical health issue. Just because you're not starving doesn't mean that you're well nourished.
Heat is a luxury? A/C?
More people die in winter and summer from lack of electricity in the U.S. than from starvation.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21919340 - 07/09/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So starvation is not a problem in the US. Bad nutrition is. I agree, that has more to do with personal decisions, meal planning and discipline than lack of resources. There is free food for anyone that wants it in every large city. Nutritious food is cheap as long as you plan ahead and spend the time to cook. Without that discipline the "poor" over spend on junk and get fat and sick. This is not a resources problem, its a personal problem.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21919347 - 07/09/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: Also, while there are many finite recources, many of them can be replaced with renewable resources, but that would cause many large companies to lose money. Bio fuel is one example.
Have you bothered to look into any of this? Bio fuel is a pipe dream. It uses far too much land to ever replace fossil fuel. Source.
The only solution is to reduce population significantly.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21919361 - 07/09/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Food security is more than rather or not you're literally starving. It's a mental health issue living under constant fear of not having enough food. Especially if you have kids. It's also a physical health issue. Just because you're not starving doesn't mean that you're well nourished.
Kids are a choice and a luxury. If you're making minimum wage, don't have kids. If it were up to me, I'd make it illegal to have kids until you've shown that your income is sufficient and that you have enough savings to weather some unexpected circumstances.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: DieCommie]
#21919372 - 07/09/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: So starvation is not a problem in the US. Bad nutrition is. I agree, that has more to do with personal decisions, meal planning and discipline than lack of resources. There is free food for anyone that wants it in every large city. Nutritious food is cheap as long as you plan ahead and spend the time to cook. Without that discipline the "poor" over spend on junk and get fat and sick. This is not a resources problem, its a personal problem.
Very true, the problems of the poor are mainly due to their own stupid decisions.
I feel like I'm in bizzarro land, enlil has made sense all day. Maybe he lost a bet?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21919402 - 07/09/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The only solution is to reduce population significantly.
Its a solution but there is a catch. The catch is that certain technologies and resource gathering businesses need a base population threshold to operate. Resource exploitation ability scales with population size but it does not scale consistently (or monotonically). Reduce the population too much and we wont have the ability to support complicated endeavors. There are about 400 nuclear plants on the earth. If we reduced the population to 1/400 of what we have now the ability to support even one power plant would be harder than it is now, from the economics of scale. A population of a few thousand or even million could not support that kind of resource exploitation.
With this in mind I see a kind of saw tooth function where as population goes up the resources per person goes down. Until we hit a threshold that supports a new means and system of resource exploitation. At that point resources per person spikes. At that point we can support more resources per person because we have a higher population.
If we can't make it to the next spike, then a reduction of population will lead to more resources per person, as long as we stay on the same saw tooth and don't reduce population too much. If we can make it to the next spike then our increased population will support more resources per person.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21919409 - 07/09/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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We are not referring to obesity, but malnutrition. And even then it does effect peple in the US. I used to live in oklahoma, and I've noticed that a lot of people there don't have enough money to feed themselves sometimes. There is no city to have food runs, the majority of people living there(at least the area I lived in) was completely rural.
Oklahoma also has nearly NO jobs through out the majority of the rural state. As there just isn't anything that makes money. A lot of the younger generation is forced into doing criminal activities and drug trade. Nearly every adult above 25 and below 45 I know has been to jail at least once. While many urban area has a city food bank, rural areas don't get that opportunity.
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Achillita said: Also, while there are many finite recources, many of them can be replaced with renewable resources, but that would cause many large companies to lose money. Bio fuel is one example.
Have you bothered to look into any of this? Bio fuel is a pipe dream. It uses far too much land to ever replace fossil fuel. Source.
The only solution is to reduce population significantly.
Biofuel from the corn stalks is not a pipe dream. In the US, 914 million acres of land are used for agriculture. According to your link a third of it is what would be needed for enough fuel for the whole US. Now while it isn't 100% feasible now, biofuel is making advances every year. And also much of the organic agricultural waste is just being thrown away. I wouldn't doubt there is enough for at least half of the US's fuel demands.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21919417 - 07/09/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you can't afford to feed yourself in a rural area then you need to move to the city. Living in a rural area is not a right. Its expensive considering the lack of jobs. I wish I could do it, I can't. I have to live in a city.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21919451 - 07/09/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So, you think that people are starving in the U.S. because they can't afford food, but you want to take 1/3 of the ag land in the nation and divert it to produce biofuel?
You either haven't thought this through or you're blinded by some idealistic fairytale that has no basis in reality.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: DieCommie]
#21919456 - 07/09/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Many of the people didn't choose to live there. They live there because they were born there. If you own the land, living in a rural area is the CHEAPEST thing. Certain parts of my family has owned land in oklahoma for over 100 years.
Many people there are the same. The land was given to them, and there is nothing to do with it. They live right on the line of poverty, if not below it.
And moving is even more expensive. And it includes large amounts of money that they don't have.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: DieCommie]
#21919457 - 07/09/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Moving is easy is one of the biggest fallacious arguments I see come up in these kind of discussions. It's not easy, especially if you're poor.
The heat/AC being a luxury question was never responded too.
Having kids should be a choice, I agree. Unfortunately many of the same people who don't want to raise minimum wage want to make that choice harder.
Not everyone knows how to cook (education problem). Not every location has easy access to fresh food (see link). Not everyone has the time to cook (financial problem often compounded by working minimum wage).
http://civileats.com/category/food-deserts-2/
The final point I'd like to make about minimum wage being livable is what happens when you get sick? You go to work and get everyone else sick (possibly lots of other people if you work in the food industry) or you don't eat, don't pay your bills, don't pay your rent. Am I missing something?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Achillita
Back to the basics



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21919476 - 07/09/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: So, you think that people are starving in the U.S. because they can't afford food, but you want to take 1/3 of the ag land in the nation and divert it to produce biofuel?
You either haven't thought this through or you're blinded by some idealistic fairytale that has no basis in reality.
The majority of all the corn produced is used as feed for animals. Almost 90% of it actually. If we cut back on beef or pork production, we'd have enough food to stop world hunger.
But the majority of by products from agriculture are thrown away. They aren't being converted into bio fuel, they are being tossed. You can grow large amounts of food with hydroponics in buildings with multiple floors. Doing so would increase production, save water, and provide tons of cheap food for whole cities. All this while not using much land. The problem with doing so is that it won't make money. The profits would be slim, and it'd take quite a bit of money to invest in it.
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Enlil
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21919624 - 07/09/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said:
The majority of all the corn produced is used as feed for animals. Almost 90% of it actually. If we cut back on beef or pork production, we'd have enough food to stop world hunger.
Why stop there? Why not have a government-approved food substance that everyone must eat?
The bottom line is this: There aren't enough resources on the planet to provide everyone with an equivalent lifestyle to the U.S. poverty line. That's a harsh reality. If you want to improve the American lifestyle further, it means the rest of the world suffers even more.
I see no reason to raise the bottom to an even higher level of luxury. People who work harder and smarter should be rewarded. People who want to barely skate by should have to live on the edge of survival.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21919662 - 07/09/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Working smarter in capitalism generally means taking advantage of someone else, especially their labor or their ignorance.
I would also argue that people don't want to just skate by. Rather it's lack of education, lack of health care, or lack of hope that's holding them back most people don't enjoy the constant stress of living hand to mouth.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (07/09/15 12:08 PM)
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21919895 - 07/09/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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sorry, been working out of town, really long hours, not demanding to get paid more...
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21920340 - 07/09/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: So, you'd be okay with a system that set the minimum at a "living wage" even if it meant that there were no more jobs for students, etc. to make a few bucks over the summer? Or would you advocate some second-tier minimum wage for certain jobs?
Are you speaking of highschool students. I don't find them to be a priority in this discussion whatsoever. I don't care about Jimmy's extra spending money.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21920366 - 07/09/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wow, this discussion has really gone to fucking loony town. I don't even know where to begin. It's become clear that a mushroom website is no place for politics.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21920371 - 07/09/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said: sorry, been working out of town, really long hours, not demanding to get paid more...
Really long hours. Hmm, interesting, considering in the other thread you stated that you don't even work 40 hours a week.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21920561 - 07/09/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Amazing that most of you would opt for social programs rivalling North Korea's.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21920587 - 07/09/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: So, you think that people are starving in the U.S. because they can't afford food, but you want to take 1/3 of the ag land in the nation and divert it to produce biofuel?
You either haven't thought this through or you're blinded by some idealistic fairytale that has no basis in reality.
1 in 3 US farm acres is planted for export.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Enlil
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21920657 - 07/09/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
1 in 3 US farm acres is planted for export.
It should be much more than that. The rest of the world is starving, after all.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21920732 - 07/09/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
SneezingPenis said: sorry, been working out of town, really long hours, not demanding to get paid more...
Really long hours. Hmm, interesting, considering in the other thread you stated that you don't even work 40 hours a week.
I don't work 40 hours a week. usually. but I will work 16 hour days back to back occasionally, or three 12s in a row. Nature of my job.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21920801 - 07/09/15 04:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You work 12 hour shifts but still can't manage a 40 hour work week?
Christ.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21920934 - 07/09/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
SneezingPenis said: sorry, been working out of town, really long hours, not demanding to get paid more...
Really long hours. Hmm, interesting, considering in the other thread you stated that you don't even work 40 hours a week.
I don't work 40 hours a week. usually. but I will work 16 hour days back to back occasionally, or three 12s in a row. Nature of my job.
16 Hour days are rough, I'll give you that. That said, I would have traded my left nut for your work schedule once upon a time.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21920951 - 07/09/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
1 in 3 US farm acres is planted for export.
It should be much more than that. The rest of the world is starving, after all.
In the context of this conversation, the rest of the world isn't a concern. We're talking about what would be good or bad for America.
Aside from that, if we stopped exporting as much food, but also stopped using oil, oil prices would plummet for the rest of the world. Cheap energy would be more beneficial to them than dependence on America.
We could expand free trade with America worldwide too. That would be to their benefit, and our detriment. It would only serve to close the gap between American wages and foreign wages.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21921061 - 07/09/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think in terms of what's good or bad for America without at least considering it in the context of the rest of the world. What we have now is unsustainable, and I'm not really big on the idea of making it more so.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21921135 - 07/09/15 06:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I don't think in terms of what's good or bad for America without at least considering it in the context of the rest of the world. What we have now is unsustainable, and I'm not really big on the idea of making it more so.
I honestly don't find coal and oil to be the 'sustainable' option. Regardless, you wouldn't even need to replace oil with biofuel exclusively. There are many different ways to create energy without fossil fuels. If we invested in nuclear fusion if would be beneficial for everyone in the world.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Enlil
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21921166 - 07/09/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Of course coal and oil aren't sustainable. Nuclear fusion, if we can make it work, is the only hope for replacing fossil fuel.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21921194 - 07/09/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Of course coal and oil aren't sustainable. Nuclear fusion, if we can make it work, is the only hope for replacing fossil fuel.
I think that if this were a priority we'd already have nuclear fusion. I agree though, it is a prerequisite for humanity to fill its energy needs indefinitely.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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psyconaught
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21921200 - 07/09/15 06:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Are you speaking of highschool students. I don't find them to be a priority in this discussion whatsoever. I don't care about Jimmy's extra spending money.
so now we're robbing peter to pay paul. It isn't just about extra spending money. If you prevent new labor from entering the market eventually no one will have any job experience because its too expensive to hire inexperienced people.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: psyconaught]
#21921992 - 07/09/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Minimum wage should support a minimum lifestyle...not a life of luxury and comfort. Once someone works his/her way out of minimum wage, he/she can start adding luxuries.
nailed it!
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: psyconaught]
#21922019 - 07/09/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
Are you speaking of highschool students. I don't find them to be a priority in this discussion whatsoever. I don't care about Jimmy's extra spending money.
so now we're robbing peter to pay paul. It isn't just about extra spending money. If you prevent new labor from entering the market eventually no one will have any job experience because its too expensive to hire inexperienced people.
i believe raising the minimum wage would cause roughly a 2% increase in youth unemployment? I believe it's around there. Overall employment would remain unchanged. It's clearly a worthy sacrifice. I don't care if 1/50 less highschool kids have jobs, if more single mothers are able to feed their children.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/09/15 09:21 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21922125 - 07/09/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: if more single mothers are able to feed their children.
More than what? Are there a lot of single mothers who are letting their kids starve to death in the U.S.?
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21922158 - 07/09/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: if more single mothers are able to feed their children.
More than what? Are there a lot of single mothers who are letting their kids starve to death in the U.S.?
there's not, that's straw man argument liberals use to keep the money flowing and to demonize them mean ol conservatives...
if anything, the children of the US are overfed, lots of obesity, according to Mooooochelle Obama...
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21922331 - 07/09/15 10:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: if more single mothers are able to feed their children.
More than what? Are there a lot of single mothers who are letting their kids starve to death in the U.S.?
Let me put that in a more adequate phrasing then: If single mothers are more equipped to care for their children.
Single parenting is a struggle, especially on minimum wage.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21922337 - 07/09/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: if more single mothers are able to feed their children.
More than what? Are there a lot of single mothers who are letting their kids starve to death in the U.S.?
there's not, that's straw man argument liberals use to keep the money flowing and to demonize them mean ol conservatives...
if anything, the children of the US are overfed, lots of obesity, according to Mooooochelle Obama...
I don't think all Republicans are mean. I certainly don't think all Liberals are nice. Am I not allowed to criticize the policies they endorse? I think you're the one strawmanning.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Enlil
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21922397 - 07/09/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Single parenting is a struggle, especially on minimum wage.
Being a heroin addict is a struggle, too. Should minimum wage be increased to a level that can feed the addiction more adequately?
Having a child is a choice, and I see no reason that society should subsidize imprudent choices.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21922407 - 07/09/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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oh please, anytime there is any talk about cutting the rates of growth in these bloated programs, liberals start screaming "they want children to starve"
conservatives have even given up even trying to cut these programs at all, only slow their growth, instead of the automatic 5% increase every year, maybe lets try only increasing it 3.5%, nope, not good enough, "THEYRE TRYING TO STARVE THE CHILDREN"
and the funny thing is, this shit works on the sheeple, those who don't even have the wherewithall to follow politics, too dumb to understand what is going on, and who runs the education system? but thats another topic...
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21922430 - 07/09/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Single parenting is a struggle, especially on minimum wage.
Being a heroin addict is a struggle, too. Should minimum wage be increased to a level that can feed the addiction more adequately?
Having a child is a choice, and I see no reason that society should subsidize imprudent choices.
Poor argument. There are a variety of reasons someone becomes a single parent. Husband/Wife leaves for their secretary, Husband/Wife dies in a car accident, etc. Poor decision making is one of those reasons. However, I believe it is a moral prerogative of any modern society to attempt to mitigate the cost paid by the child or their parents' miscalculation or misfortune.
I'm not suggesting what is currently on the table in Switzerland ($2,800 guaranteed income, paid by the government). An increase in the minimum wage isn't some whacky idea; it used to be higher than it is now!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Enlil
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21922461 - 07/09/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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There are a variety of reasons that someone becomes a heroin addict. Addiction to opiates from chronic pain leading to unavailability and seeking alternatives, etc.
Having a child should only be done when people have sufficient income and savings to weather rough times. The least educated and prepared, however, have the most children. Those children grow up with that example, and most of them will do the same. Subsidizing that cycle doesn't help anyone, including those who are subsidized. Instead, it serves to give just enough help to allow the cycle to continue unabated.
Rewarding the stupid for doing stupid shit is not the way to a better society overall.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21922578 - 07/09/15 11:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Having a child should only be done when people have sufficient income and savings to weather rough times. The least educated and prepared, however, have the most children. Those children grow up with that example, and most of them will do the same. Subsidizing that cycle doesn't help anyone, including those who are subsidized. Instead, it serves to give just enough help to allow the cycle to continue unabated.
Rewarding stupid people for doing stupid shit is not the way to a better society overall.
I have known many couples, single mothers, that proactively plan to have kids because their welfare is about to "run out", its fucking sick... and studies have shown that welfare is "generational" the more it is distributed, the more it grows, children learn it, live it...
***never seen more crybabies in my life...
Edited by hostileuniverse (07/10/15 02:29 AM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21922586 - 07/09/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't misquote me. If you don't like what I said, say what you want. Don't put words in my mouth.
I would never be so stupid as to play the liberal/conservative false dichotomy game.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21922975 - 07/10/15 02:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
I would never be so stupid as to play the liberal/conservative false dichotomy game.
right, there's no difference between the two...
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21923518 - 07/10/15 08:05 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you think that most people fall into easily defined categories like that, you've got a very simplistic view of the world. I have many liberal ideals and many conservative ones. Most people do. Only truly devoted followers adhere to one or the other completely.
By turning it into a liberal/conservative battle, you simply raise the flag of your chosen team and cast dispersions on the other team. Instead, why don't you try arguing YOUR position on a given issue and comparing that to someone else's position on that same issue.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21923886 - 07/10/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Vote for bernie sanders so we can end up like Greece.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21923903 - 07/10/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Much as I don't agree with socialism, I think Bernie is a much better candidate than the eventual dem pick, hitlery. If the media has their way the bitch will be pres. The repubmocrats have had a lock on elections for far too long. Vote third party.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21923914 - 07/10/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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On the bright side four years of a much older Bill running around the White House trying to get his dick wet should be entertaining.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21923974 - 07/10/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So disregard the blatant corruption going on, the selling of power and access that the Clintons have done, just be entertained by the assholes?
Vote third party and break the duopoly.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21923985 - 07/10/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Vote for bernie sanders so we can end up like Greece.
Who are you voting for?
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21924018 - 07/10/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: So disregard the blatant corruption going on, the selling of power and access that the Clintons have done, just be entertained by the assholes?
Vote third party and break the duopoly.
It was a joke.
I'm fully expecting Bernie to pull just enough of Hillary's votes for Walker to eek out a win.
Koch Industries - 2016.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21924022 - 07/10/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: So disregard the blatant corruption going on, the selling of power and access that the Clintons have done, just be entertained by the assholes?
Vote third party and break the duopoly.
It was a joke.
I'm fully expecting Bernie to pull just enough of Hillary's votes for Walker to eek out a win.
Koch Industries - 2016.
What?
You realize Bernie can only pull votes from Hillary if he loses the primary, then enters the general election as an independent? Which he already said he wouldn't do?
And Walker isn't even making out of Iowa, fuck outta here.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21924044 - 07/10/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: What?
You realize Bernie can only pull votes from Hillary if he loses the primary, then enters the general election as an independent? Which he already said he wouldn't do?
I didn't realize Bernie said he won't run if he loses the primary.
Quote:
And Walker isn't even making out of Iowa, fuck outta here.
Seems like he's doing well to me. Can you show evidence that he's not?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/07/01/scott_walker_leads_in_tightening_iowa_poll_127200.html
http://thegazette.com/subject/news/polls-confirm-walker-clinton-leading-2016-races-in-iowa-20150708
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (07/10/15 11:08 AM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21924069 - 07/10/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If zappo like him he has no chance.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21924303 - 07/10/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Shins said: Vote for bernie sanders so we can end up like Greece.
Who are you voting for?
I would vote Rand.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21924401 - 07/10/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Shins said: Vote for bernie sanders so we can end up like Greece.
Who are you voting for?
I would vote Rand.
I would say so we could turn into _________, but not even the most backward nations employ libertarian economics.
--------------------
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21924415 - 07/10/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: What?
You realize Bernie can only pull votes from Hillary if he loses the primary, then enters the general election as an independent? Which he already said he wouldn't do?
I didn't realize Bernie said he won't run if he loses the primary.
Quote:
And Walker isn't even making out of Iowa, fuck outta here.
Seems like he's doing well to me. Can you show evidence that he's not?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/07/01/scott_walker_leads_in_tightening_iowa_poll_127200.html
http://thegazette.com/subject/news/polls-confirm-walker-clinton-leading-2016-races-in-iowa-20150708
Walker's only use is Wisconsin, the right is much better off dumping their money into Rubio for Florida.
Not to mention he has an incredible amount of baggage, like the time a reporter called him pretending to be David Koch, and Walker admitted to mulling the idea of planting agent provocateurs in the union protests.
Plus, the guy has no national traction or appeal. Pretty sure the GOP has the white christian male vote locked up.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21924424 - 07/10/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If the GOP nominee isn't Bush or Rubio, I'll change my sig to a penis for the entire general election process.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21924569 - 07/10/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Walker's only use is Wisconsin, the right is much better off dumping their money into Rubio for Florida.
Not to mention he has an incredible amount of baggage, like the time a reporter called him pretending to be David Koch, and Walker admitted to mulling the idea of planting agent provocateurs in the union protests.
Plus, the guy has no national traction or appeal. Pretty sure the GOP has the white christian male vote locked up.
He won twice in WI after that David Koch phone call. The Koch brother's have also said they plan to dump $900,000,000 into this election cycle. David also mentioned that Walker is his favorite.
I do think Rubio is a better bet but I wouldn't discount David's political aspirations or influence over the primaries. He's been gunning for the white house for a long time.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21924603 - 07/10/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Walker's only use is Wisconsin, the right is much better off dumping their money into Rubio for Florida.
Not to mention he has an incredible amount of baggage, like the time a reporter called him pretending to be David Koch, and Walker admitted to mulling the idea of planting agent provocateurs in the union protests.
Plus, the guy has no national traction or appeal. Pretty sure the GOP has the white christian male vote locked up.
He won twice in WI after that David Koch phone call. The Koch brother's have also said they plan to dump $900,000,000 into this election cycle. David also mentioned that Walker is his favorite.
I do think Rubio is a better bet but I wouldn't discount David's political aspirations or influence over the primaries. He's been gunning for the white house for a long time.
Of course, but do the Kochs dump money into Walker AND Rubio? Rubio seems to make the most sense.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21924791 - 07/10/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Shins said: Vote for bernie sanders so we can end up like Greece.
Who are you voting for?
I would vote Rand.
I would say so we could turn into _________, but not even the most backward nations employ libertarian economics.
Turn into what? A more free and prosperous nation?
Maybe if those backwatds nations practiced a little more austrian economics they might not be so backwards.
currently the liberal keynsian economic system is a dismal failure. Even keynes himself said that his own system doesn't work and justified it by saying "in the long run were all dead"
but in fact its his economic theory which is dead in the long run, but socialists are completely blind to the long term anyways, they're all about instant gratification.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21924842 - 07/10/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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How does libertarian economics address global warming and other environmental concerns?
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Of course, but do the Kochs dump money into Walker AND Rubio? Rubio seems to make the most sense.
I do see your point. Honestly this conversation started off a tongue in cheek response I was giving Stonehenge to his vote third party post. I never meant for it to be taken this seriously.
I live in WI. People here love him. I think he's a lying puppet piece of shit. The thought of him being our next president scares the fuck out of me. I use humour to cope.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21924847 - 07/10/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Rubio is a fanatic asshole much like graham or McCain. We need someone like that like we need ww3. I would gladly settle for Bernie over such creeps. Rand for the win!
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21924894 - 07/10/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Rand is as anti-EPA as his dad. I love his drug policies but I love drinking water and fresh air quite a bit more.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21924920 - 07/10/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Rand isn't going to let them pollute the water. He would be 100 times as good as obumble.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21924974 - 07/10/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Rand is as anti-EPA as his dad. I love his drug policies but I love drinking water and fresh air quite a bit more.
See, this is why people don't understand Libertarianism. Rand could be against the FDA, would you say that he doesn't like food and drugs? Being anti-EPA doesn't mean one is against environmental policies, it just means that he is against a federal entity that is easily corruptible, handing down blanket edicts that affect states differently.
Kentucky has built a large portion of its economy around coal and when the EPA becomes nothing more than a black PR firm trying to create an unfavorable public opinion of coal, it makes you wonder why your tax dollars are going towards something that is damaging your state... its like if PETA were a federal government institution. Plus the EPA just gives wrist slaps to these giant corporations and in effect is like the catholic church selling indulgences.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21925000 - 07/10/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're right, I don't understand Libertarianism. I asked earlier how it handles environmental issues when you first mentioned libertarian economics.
Clean air and water is a major concern of mine. I do love some Libertarian policies. I'm honestly interested in hearing how it addresses clean air and water.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21925261 - 07/10/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Turn into what? A more free and prosperous nation?
Maybe if those backwatds nations practiced a little more austrian economics they might not be so backwards.
currently the liberal keynsian economic system is a dismal failure. Even keynes himself said that his own system doesn't work and justified it by saying "in the long run were all dead"
but in fact its his economic theory which is dead in the long run, but socialists are completely blind to the long term anyways, they're all about instant gratification.
Even the Libertarian hero Adam Smith advocated regulation on behalf of labor. You people have gone beyond the scope of reasonable discussion.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21925270 - 07/10/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: You're right, I don't understand Libertarianism. I asked earlier how it handles environmental issues when you first mentioned libertarian economics.
Clean air and water is a major concern of mine. I do love some Libertarian policies. I'm honestly interested in hearing how it addresses clean air and water.
Libertarians say that the market will dictate whether clean air and water are valuable enough for people to vote on their behalf with their dollars. We all know that's not the way of things.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/10/15 04:29 PM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21925302 - 07/10/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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>Libertarians say that the market will dictate whether clean air and water are valuable enough for people to vote on their behalf with their dollars. We all know that's not the way of things.
First of all, not all libertarians say that. Secondly, people can vote all they want now days but the big money still calls the shots.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21925377 - 07/10/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >Libertarians say that the market will dictate whether clean air and water are valuable enough for people to vote on their behalf with their dollars. We all know that's not the way of things.
First of all, not all libertarians say that. Secondly, people can vote all they want now days but the big money still calls the shots.
Libertarianism has been pushed by the Koch brothers for years, because they are the type of people who would benefit from a Libertarian model, exclusively.
There actually is a philosophy behind Libertarianism, which I have just expressed. The fact that Libertarians don't even know what the fuck they stand for isn't my problem.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21925382 - 07/10/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Koch brothers and weed addicts!
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21925418 - 07/10/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
because they are the type of people who would benefit from a Libertarian model, exclusively.
this statement right here proves you know next to nothing about libertarian philosophy.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: psyconaught]
#21925441 - 07/10/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, woofed thinks libertarians don't know what libertarianism is but he does.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21925650 - 07/10/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: If you think that most people fall into easily defined categories like that, you've got a very simplistic view of the world. I have many liberal ideals and many conservative ones. Most people do. Only truly devoted followers adhere to one or the other completely.
As do I. But considering what's running on the Rep side next year, I'll probably vote Dem.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21926275 - 07/10/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Yeah, woofed thinks libertarians don't know what libertarianism is but he does. 
Libertarianism has become a new fad, which is why there are so many assholes running around identifying as Libertarians who have a very rough understanding of what it even is. I am very well aware of what it means to be a Libertarian, and I used to identify as one myself. I don't have to be a Libertarian to know what the term means.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21926655 - 07/10/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Libertarianism is basically constitutionalism, if it's not in the there, they don't do it, simple as that...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21926704 - 07/10/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Libertarianism is basically constitutionalism, if it's not in the there, they don't do it, simple as that...
Wrong.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21926911 - 07/11/15 01:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Libertarianism is basically constitutionalism, if it's not in the there, they don't do it, simple as that...
Wrong.
Care to explain the fallacy?
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21927032 - 07/11/15 01:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Libertarianism is basically constitutionalism, if it's not in the there, they don't do it, simple as that...
Wrong.
Care to explain the fallacy?
Libertarianism is a political philosophy. It is not exclusive to America. In fact, the only country to have ever implemented Libertarianism is not American.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21927112 - 07/11/15 02:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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libertarianism is basically a concept to limit the federal government from having any weight in dictating what a state HAS to do. they believe that the federal government should be relegated to maintaining a standing army and be an arbitrator between interstate disputes... hold borders... i can think of a few more later... but the powers of the federal government should be limited greatly. It is not to be a crutch for people. People on welfare shouldn't even be allowed to vote as a matter of conflict of interest.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21927125 - 07/11/15 02:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said: libertarianism is basically a concept to limit the federal government from having any weight in dictating what a state HAS to do. they believe that the federal government should be relegated to maintaining a standing army and be an arbitrator between interstate disputes... hold borders... i can think of a few more later... but the powers of the federal government should be limited greatly. It is not to be a crutch for people. People on welfare shouldn't even be allowed to vote as a matter of conflict of interest.
Sounds like a strict constitutionalist to me...
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21927140 - 07/11/15 02:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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eh, you are an asshole if you think the constitution was meant to be interpreted ONLY one way. it is a living document and was created to be pliable. The greatest minds of that time knew that they did not know what the future would bring and that to be foolish enough to think so was a mistake that all others had made before them. A lucid and aware population should be able to take these truths and argue to a point that fit that current society best. It outlined fairness and decency to a degree and everything else was left intentionally ambiguous or nebulous because they knew that they didnt know.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21927154 - 07/11/15 02:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: There are a variety of reasons that someone becomes a heroin addict. Addiction to opiates from chronic pain leading to unavailability and seeking alternatives, etc.
Having a child should only be done when people have sufficient income and savings to weather rough times. The least educated and prepared, however, have the most children. Those children grow up with that example, and most of them will do the same. Subsidizing that cycle doesn't help anyone, including those who are subsidized. Instead, it serves to give just enough help to allow the cycle to continue unabated.
Rewarding the stupid for doing stupid shit is not the way to a better society overall.
Been meaning to reply to this one, but I didn't have the time.
It is probably one of the greatest examples of false equivalency I've seen as of late, to compare the plights of a heroin addict and a single mother, as if they occupy parallel veins in some way (pun intended).
In my own experience, anecdotally, my mother is a single parent of 4, and the virtue of contraception was a powerful theme of her parental guidance growing up. Not a single one of us has any children.
However, if you insist that it is a proper analogy for the discussion, I submit to you a comically powerful piece of counter evidence to the argument you've made:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219559/
Giving heroin to heroin addicts has proven quite successful. In several European countries they are doing just that.
I should also point out, interestingly enough, that there is significant evidence demonstrating a strong correlation between drug use and income inequality. Therefore, children of a poor single mother in a society with exceptional wealth inequality are further disadvantaged by an increased incidence of illicit drug use.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/11/15 02:50 AM)
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21927291 - 07/11/15 03:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said: eh, you are an asshole if you think the constitution was meant to be interpreted ONLY one way. it is a living document and was created to be pliable. The greatest minds of that time knew that they did not know what the future would bring and that to be foolish enough to think so was a mistake that all others had made before them. A lucid and aware population should be able to take these truths and argue to a point that fit that current society best. It outlined fairness and decency to a degree and everything else was left intentionally ambiguous or nebulous because they knew that they didnt know.
The tenth ammendment grants ALL powers not delegated to the federal govt. to the states. That much is quite clear. That's what libertarians beleive we should be doing...
If the constitution doesn't mean anything, then it doesn't mean anything, merely interpreting it the way you would like to see it doesn't mean that's what it says...
You either beleive in it or you don't, saying that it's open to interpretation is just something people say when they want the federal govt to do things they have no right, power, or business doing...
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21927300 - 07/11/15 03:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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no, it was left malleable enough to allow for an autonomic democracy to decide what is right for it beyond the enumerated freedoms. The 9th and 14th amendment are some of the most important ones.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21927740 - 07/11/15 07:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Giving heroin to heroin addicts has proven quite successful. In several European countries they are doing just that.
Quite successful at what? Your link is unclear what the goal was in those studies other than some vague statement about "determining the therapeutic value of medical heroin prescription for high-risk users".
And as much as I value your anecdotal evidence (very little), you're not actually arguing that the problem of single motherhood hasn't grown each generation, or that there is no correlation between being raised by a single mother and the likelihood of becoming one.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21927757 - 07/11/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said: libertarianism is basically a concept to limit the federal government from having any weight in dictating what a state HAS to do. they believe that the federal government should be relegated to maintaining a standing army and be an arbitrator between interstate disputes... hold borders... i can think of a few more later... but the powers of the federal government should be limited greatly. It is not to be a crutch for people. People on welfare shouldn't even be allowed to vote as a matter of conflict of interest.
As I said I'm more concerned about having clean air and water than anything else. Welfare I'm sure we could go back and forth on but frankly I think the impending mass extinction is a larger, if not more immediate, concern for most people.
How do Libertarians interpret the commerce clause? How do they propose to insure irreducible public goods are not destroyed by selfish business or individual interests? I understand that the EPA isn't perfect and is subject to unfair legislation and enforcement but I've yet to hear the Libertarian alternative.
People living off the coal industry is a non-starter to me. Sorry. I get that Rand Paul is from Kentucky and that coal is important to his constituents. But air is an irreducible public good and your right to swing your fist ends when it hits my face.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21928022 - 07/11/15 09:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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i pulled this off the official libertarian platform website... it is just an article and not exactly a statement from the libertarian party.
Quote:
Who's the greatest polluter of all? The oil companies? The chemical companies? The nuclear power plants? If you guessed "none of the above," you'd be correct. Our government, at the federal, state, and local levels, is the single greatest polluter in the land. In addition, our government doesn't even clean up its own garbage! In 1988, for example, the EPA demanded that the Departments of Energy and Defense clean up 17 of their weapons plants which were leaking radioactive and toxic chemicals -- enough contamination to cost $100 billion in clean-up costs over 50 years! The EPA was simply ignored. No bureaucrats went to jail or were sued for damages. Government departments have sovereign immunity.
In 1984, a Utah court ruled that the U.S. military was negligent in its nuclear testing, causing serious health problems (e.g. death) for the people exposed to radioactive fallout. The Court of Appeals dismissed the claims of the victims, because government employees have sovereign immunity.
Hooker Chemical begged the Niagara Falls School Board not to excavate the land where Hooker had safely stored toxic chemical waste. The school board ignored these warnings and taxpayers had to foot a $30 million relocation bill when health problems arose. The EPA filed suit, not against the reckless school board, but against Hooker Chemical! Government officials have sovereign immunity.
Government, both federal and local, is the greatest single polluter in the U.S. This polluter literally gets away with murder because of sovereign immunity. Libertarians would make government as responsible for its actions as everyone else is expected to be. Libertarians would protect the environment by first abolishing sovereign immunity.
By turning to government for environmental protection, we've placed the fox in charge of the hen house -- and a very large hen house it is! Governments, both federal and local, control over 40% of our country's land mass. Unfortunately, government's stewardship over our land is gradually destroying it.
For example, the Bureau of Land Management controls an area almost twice the size of Texas, including nearly all of Alaska and Nevada. Much of this land is rented to ranchers for grazing cattle. Because ranchers are only renting the land, they have no incentive to take care of it. Not surprisingly, studies as early as 1925 indicated that cattle were twice as likely to die on public ranges and had half as many calves as animals grazing on private lands.
Obviously, owners make better environmental guardians than renters. If the government sold its acreage to private ranchers, the new owners would make sure that they grazed the land sustainably to maximize profit and yield.
Indeed, ownership of wildlife can literally save endangered species from extinction. Between 1979 and 1989, Kenya banned elephant hunting, yet the number of these noble beasts dropped from 65,000 to 19,000. In Zimbabwe during the same time period, however, elephants could be legally owned and sold. The number of elephants increased from 30,000 to 43,000 as their owners became fiercely protective of their "property." Poachers didn't have a chance!
Similarly, commercialization of the buffalo saved it from extinction. We never worry about cattle becoming extinct, because their status as valuable "property" encourages their propagation. The second step libertarians would take to protect the environment and save endangered species would be to encourage private ownership of both land and animals.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21928057 - 07/11/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for taking the time. I dug this same article out of google last night when I was trying to answer this question for myself.
It doesn't address irreducible goods such as air and to a lesser extent water.
It also seems to pass a lot of blame onto the government for pollution, which may or may not be true but I do want to address this point.
Quote:
Government, both federal and local, is the greatest single polluter in the U.S. This polluter literally gets away with murder because of sovereign immunity.
There's a couple of Libertarian brothers that have also literally gotten away with murder. Well paid a fine and moved on. So I'm not convinced that a Libertarian president would improve the climate situation. Again I'm not saying the EPA is perfect but I don't see how Libertarianism is better.
Here's sources to back that up.
http://kochcash.org/victims-voices-danielle-smalley-jason-stone/
http://www.truth-out.org/article/item/3929:why-do-these-koch-industries-neighbors-have-cancer
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21929074 - 07/11/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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the koch brothers are a devilish bunch and not the best representative of libertarian ideals. Their model is built around buying the system and if anything they have proven that the current system is broken and can be manipulated into ineffectiveness.
I don't think anyone has a decent solution or platform regarding environmental health because it is ultimately a world-wide issue. The biggest polluter on the planet is China and no one dare try any sanctions against them now.
Carbon credits are a joke and is even more of a catholic indulgences program than what the EPA currently has. Subsidizing solar panels on homes is not going to have any actual impact (especially since they are around 20% efficient right now). Solar Panels are moving at a Moore's Law-esque pace and in 6-10 years should be above 50% efficient and not cost prohibitive to the middle class.
There are so many good ideas out there that are not being given any chance, like underwater "wind" farms (turbines moved by deep currents) and metal-oxide based carbon scrubbing. Why are we trying to create an already obsolete infrastructure via Amtrak? create maglev rail, not high-speed.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21929135 - 07/11/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Giving heroin to heroin addicts has proven quite successful. In several European countries they are doing just that.
Quite successful at what? Your link is unclear what the goal was in those studies other than some vague statement about "determining the therapeutic value of medical heroin prescription for high-risk users".
And as much as I value your anecdotal evidence (very little), you're not actually arguing that the problem of single motherhood hasn't grown each generation, or that there is no correlation between being raised by a single mother and the likelihood of becoming one.
The study demonstrated that heroin based treatment programs were beneficial to not only the user, but society on the whole, quite clearly. However, as I have stated, I don't find there to be any equivalency here.
There are an increasing number of single parents for a variety of reasons. I would argue that financial instability in low-income homes is a leading cause of divorce, and has a more dramatic impact on the number of single parents than raising the the minimum wage might.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21929214 - 07/11/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks again for taking the time SneezingPenis.
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: There are an increasing number of single parents for a variety of reasons. I would argue that financial instability in low-income homes is a leading cause of divorce, and has a more dramatic impact on the number of single parents than raising the the minimum wage might.
Mass incarceration certainly contributes and is a fairly recent phenomena.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21929348 - 07/11/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
The study demonstrated that heroin based treatment programs were beneficial to not only the user, but society on the whole, quite clearly. However, as I have stated, I don't find there to be any equivalency here.
Can you quote the part that says that they were beneficial to society as a whole?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21929414 - 07/11/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: How does libertarian economics address global warming and other environmental concerns?
What global warming? The globe hss been cooling for the psst 17+ years. The warming trend of the 70-90's reversed almost two decades ago! Look another liberal who is ignorant of objective fscts, I'm so suprised. Why do you guys insist on pushing imaginary, emotional narratives? !
Environmental concerns canbe adressed with propert rights and if needed, regulations for the self defense.of the citizenry.
Edited by Shins (07/11/15 04:11 PM)
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21929434 - 07/11/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Rand is as anti-EPA as his dad. I love his drug policies but I love drinking water and fresh air quite a bit more.
What a blatant red herring and false dichotomy.
You are stupidly asduming that without a bloated EPA, thete will be no clean air or water, how you make that leap in your mind is a mystery.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21929445 - 07/11/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: You're right, I don't understand Libertarianism. I asked earlier how it handles environmental issues when you first mentioned libertarian economics.
Clean air and water is a major concern of mine. I do love some Libertarian policies. I'm honestly interested in hearing how it addresses clean air and water.
Libertarians say that the market will dictate whether clean air and water are valuable enough for people to vote on their behalf with their dollars. We all know that's not the way of things.
No they don't. You should keep your ignorant and stupid comments to yourself before you go and actually get half a clue what you're talking about.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21929470 - 07/11/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oh, give woofy a break. He tries hard but his brain is hobbled by left wing wacky beliefs. Its the best he can do. I just laugh anymore.
Of course libertarians want clean air and water. They just do not want a bloated bureaucracy which gets more and more huge every year coming up with more and more stupid regulations to justify their existence.
Woofy thinks he knows what libertarianism is better than the libertarians do.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21929493 - 07/11/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said: no, it was left malleable enough to allow for an autonomic democracy to decide what is right for it beyond the enumerated freedoms. The 9th and 14th amendment are some of the most important ones.
The constitution was written specifically to PREVENT a tyranny of the majority. a pure democracy is an insanely terrible idea.
51% vote women should have no rights, that's democracy.
51% decide to vote themselves free money until the country is in a debt crisis? That's democracy/democrats.
The constitution wad written to have government a REPUBLIC where individual rights are protected from the tyranny of the majority.
the founders were 100x smarter than you.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21929721 - 07/11/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: How does libertarian economics address global warming and other environmental concerns?
What global warming? The globe hss been cooling for the psst 17+ years. The warming trend of the 70-90's reversed almost two decades ago! Look another liberal who is ignorant of objective fscts, I'm so suprised. Why do you guys insist on pushing imaginary, emotional narratives? !
Environmental concerns canbe adressed with propert rights and if needed, regulations for the self defense.of the citizenry.
Knew this was coming.
I'll agree that the EPA is a mess. I haven't heard anything from the right much different than what you wrote above. This is why I can't get behind Rand Paul or anyone else on the right. Leaving a planet behind for my kids is my number one political concern.
Please show me evidence climate change is not happening. Please do so by citing a source that's not funded by Exxon or the Koch Brothers.
If you can find one I'd love to see it. Until then please kindly shut the fuck up.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21929748 - 07/11/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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oh come on, you know what i mean when i say Democracy in regards to america. Of course I don't mean pure democracy, but the democratic republic. We do not have nation wide referendums on anything, so I don't even see how that would be an issue. The constitution was/is not what is keeping the majority from ruling, it is the bicameral legislation. When the half a million people in Wyoming can tell the 38 million people in california to go fuck themselves, it isn't because of the constitution really.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21929752 - 07/11/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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You said global waming not climate change you dirty liar!
oh gee look, another liberal with no integrity, I'm so suprised.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21929758 - 07/11/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Jesus christ man you know the terms are practically interchangeable. Really just fuck off.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21929779 - 07/11/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Jesus christ man you know the terms are practically interchangeable. Really just fuck off.
To gulliable idiots who have no integrity and don't care about scientificaccuracy it doesn't make a difference.
It shows that you are not informed at all and simply just parrot what other people say. Global.warming is a buzzword so you just parrot it like a good brainledd lemmimg lib.
Seriously, why do libs insist on pushing calse narratives that they make up based off of compulsive emotionalism? How idiotic and dangerous.
how are liberals going to adress global.cooling?
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21929822 - 07/11/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wish it would cool down some.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21929837 - 07/11/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
The study demonstrated that heroin based treatment programs were beneficial to not only the user, but society on the whole, quite clearly. However, as I have stated, I don't find there to be any equivalency here.
Can you quote the part that says that they were beneficial to society as a whole?
Although this is not the cornerstone of any argument I have made, I suppose I will oblige you.
From the study:
Quote:
The trials showed superior retention for MMT (87% MMT vs. 68% coprescribed injectable heroin; 85% oral MMT vs. 72% coprescribed inhalable heroin), yet demonstrated superior therapeutic benefits in the intent-to-treat analysis for both experimental arms (56 vs. 31% and 50 vs. 27%) compared to MMT on the basis of a multidomain response index, consisting of physical health, mental health, and social functioning (including criminal activity) measures.
Quote:
The study also included a small (N = 51) RCT in one site (Geneva) comparing HAT to other (mainly MMT) therapies, which found substantial improvements for illicit heroin use, health status, and crime among HAT patients.
Quote:
In addition, a cost–benefit analysis found that HAT produced a net savings balance (€5,966) per patient per year, whereas the costs of MMT remained greater than its calculated savings (minus €2,069) because of its inability to substantially reduce crime and criminal justice system costs.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21932370 - 07/12/15 07:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Jesus christ man you know the terms are practically interchangeable. Really just fuck off.
To gulliable idiots who have no integrity and don't care about scientificaccuracy it doesn't make a difference.
It shows that you are not informed at all and simply just parrot what other people say. Global.warming is a buzzword so you just parrot it like a good brainledd lemmimg lib.
Seriously, why do libs insist on pushing calse narratives that they make up based off of compulsive emotionalism? How idiotic and dangerous.
how are liberals going to adress global.cooling?
I'll tell you what. I use global warming with people that aren't in denial. I switch to climate change so I don't have to try to explain to a denialist that it's an upward trend.
You can put your head in the sand if you want. That's your business. What I take issue with is that the thread was having fairly chill vibes and polite conversation, especially for a political forum. You were having a bad day, month, year, whatever and decided to come in and shit all over everyone. So I left you a fat 0 for being an asshole.
You can disagree without being such an asshole. As evidenced by everyone in this thread not agreeing but still being chill to each other. So really grow up. If you want to disagree with what the majority of the world has come to believe is true show some fucking evidence. I'll be happy to debate it with you. If you just want to name call and fling poo at the 'other side' kindly fuck off.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21932461 - 07/12/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Shins isn't very eloquent and has a hard time getting putting his thoughts into word form so he often gets frustrated.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21933316 - 07/12/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
paperbackwriter said:
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Jesus christ man you know the terms are practically interchangeable. Really just fuck off.
To gulliable idiots who have no integrity and don't care about scientificaccuracy it doesn't make a difference.
It shows that you are not informed at all and simply just parrot what other people say. Global.warming is a buzzword so you just parrot it like a good brainledd lemmimg lib.
Seriously, why do libs insist on pushing calse narratives that they make up based off of compulsive emotionalism? How idiotic and dangerous.
how are liberals going to adress global.cooling?
I'll tell you what. I use global warming with people that aren't in denial. I switch to climate change so I don't have to try to explain to a denialist that it's an upward trend.
You can put your head in the sand if you want. That's your business. What I take issue with is that the thread was having fairly chill vibes and polite conversation, especially for a political forum. You were having a bad day, month, year, whatever and decided to come in and shit all over everyone. So I left you a fat 0 for being an asshole.
You can disagree without being such an asshole. As evidenced by everyone in this thread not agreeing but still being chill to each other. So really grow up. If you want to disagree with what the majority of the world has come to believe is true show some fucking evidence. I'll be happy to debate it with you. If you just want to name call and fling poo at the 'other side' kindly fuck off.
The data shows global cooling for the past 17+ years. People still think global warming exists because they are gulliable idiots who parrot what other people say. Even climate scientists no longer use the term "global warming" and ow say "climate change" because global warming has been debunked.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21933334 - 07/12/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So they changed the term to better reflect the science?
Sounds evil.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21933371 - 07/12/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I ask again, hiw are liberals going to address global cooling? we could be entering another ice age! ALARM ALARM!
did you know that during the roman times, the globe was much warmer than it is today? Its true.
"climate change is also a redundant term because the climate has always, and will always experience changes.
are humans effecting climate? Most likely, is there global warming? the data does not support that.
if you weren't a faith-based religous environmentalist you could look at the data and agree, but since environmentalism is like a religion to you, you will deny the facts that disprove your faith and personal identity. You obviously have a lot of personal investment in global warming and are experiencing cognitive dissonance when faced with data that is contrarty to your close held beliefs.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21933378 - 07/12/15 12:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: So they changed the term to better reflect the science?
Sounds evil.
Not evil at all. All the people still thinking global warming exists just need to get with the times. It shows that they are uninformed when they say "global warming"
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21933696 - 07/12/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: The data shows global cooling for the past 17+ years.
Not if you look at the most recently published data.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-pause-in-global-warming/
Quote:
"There is no slowdown in global warming,” Russell Vose, the head of the climate science division at the National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI), said. “Or stated differently, the trend over the past decade and half is in line with the trend since 1950.”
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21933725 - 07/12/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: So they changed the term to better reflect the science?
Sounds evil.
Not evil at all. All the people still thinking global warming exists just need to get with the times. It shows that they are uninformed when they say "global warming"
As uninformed as someone who calls the Willis Tower the Sears Tower.
Again, the term changed. Not the science.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21933796 - 07/12/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The term changed to reflect the change in data. It is no longer called "global warming" because the data started to show thst the globe is no longer warming.
We can discuss climate change, there's not much doubt that humans are affecting the climate, but please just let global warming go LET IT GO! I know your personas are invested heavily and all, its super trendy to be an envoronmentalist, but you need to keep it real.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21933967 - 07/12/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: The term changed to reflect the change in data. It is no longer called "global warming" because the data started to show thst the globe is no longer warming.
We can discuss climate change, there's not much doubt that humans are affecting the climate, but please just let global warming go LET IT GO! I know your personas are invested heavily and all, its super trendy to be an envoronmentalist, but you need to keep it real.
I don't use the term so I have let it go, can you?
The earth is still warming. Has been. Will continue to do so if we keep applying the same factors.
Seems to me you completely acknowledge man-made climate change, so now to be the cool contrarian you just rail against a term nobody even uses anymore. Ok, knock yourself out.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21934035 - 07/12/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: The term changed to reflect the change in data. It is no longer called "global warming" because the data started to show thst the globe is no longer warming.
We can discuss climate change, there's not much doubt that humans are affecting the climate, but please just let global warming go LET IT GO! I know your personas are invested heavily and all, its super trendy to be an envoronmentalist, but you need to keep it real.
What's wrong with being an environmentalist?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21934738 - 07/12/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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being an environmentalist is fine, but todays "environmentalists" are no better than vegans that wear suede shoes. If all you do is rail against big companies while never once looking at your own ecological impact then shut the fuck up about it. I truly do applaud those people who take real measures to decrease their impact, but they are quite rare... and I don't just mean, "i bought a hybrid" people, or i brought my canvas bags to the store in my yukon... real salt of the earth granola hippies... not a trustafarian with a compost pile.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21935290 - 07/12/15 09:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I agree, I don't like hypocrites. My gf's sister rides her bike or runs everywhere she goes. She's a vegetarian too, and grows her own food. I personally don't have it in me to live like that, and my lungs have taken too much abuse over the years to do so if I tried!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21935739 - 07/13/15 12:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Your girlfriends sister made two changes that almost anyone can make to have a real impact on the environment: don't drive a car and don't eat meat. Those two relatively simple things can be huge for the environment. If more people did just those two things, we'd see some real differences.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,856
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21935775 - 07/13/15 12:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
The data shows global cooling for the past 17+ years. People still think global warming exists because they are gulliable idiots who parrot what other people say. Even climate scientists no longer use the term "global warming" and ow say "climate change" because global warming has been debunked.
here, ya go:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
when you put a glass of ice water outside on a hot day, what happens? if you said:"the ice melts" congratulations, you are correct. What happens to the water when the ice melts? if you said:"it gets colder" congratulations, you are correct. What happens, when there isn't anymore ice to melt? if you said:"the water begins to warm" congratulations, you are correct.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21935894 - 07/13/15 01:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Your girlfriends sister made two changes that almost anyone can make to have a real impact on the environment: don't drive a car and don't eat meat. Those two relatively simple things can be huge for the environment. If more people did just those two things, we'd see some real differences.
She's an impressive woman. Not everyone lives close enough to work, or is a runner... the vegetarian thing... blech...
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21935904 - 07/13/15 01:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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don't eat meat? fuck off... I an understand an argument against the corporate farms of pigs, chicken and cows, but acting like meat is bad is just stupid. Go shoot a deer and eat for a year.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21936275 - 07/13/15 07:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Meat is a very inefficient way of feeding people. If we intend to support anywhere close to the current population, it can't be done with a meat based diet.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21936283 - 07/13/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's a big if. Rather than give up meat, I'd prefer to see a population reduction event that dropped us to a billion or lower.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21936291 - 07/13/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: Your girlfriends sister made two changes that almost anyone can make to have a real impact on the environment: don't drive a car and don't eat meat. Those two relatively simple things can be huge for the environment. If more people did just those two things, we'd see some real differences.
She's an impressive woman. Not everyone lives close enough to work, or is a runner... the vegetarian thing... blech...
My point is that it shouldn't be considered that impressive. If someone actually wants to make a real, recognizable difference in the world (not just talk about it), then it starts with them. And the two easiest things to do are not to eat meat and not to drive, and those are options that nearly all of us have.
I don't want to say the change is easy, but it's really not very difficult. Anyone who wants to help the world can start with these two steps.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21936300 - 07/13/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That's a big if. Rather than give up meat, I'd prefer to see a population reduction event that dropped us to a billion or lower.
Quote:
Enlil said: That's a big if. Rather than give up meat, I'd prefer to see a population reduction event that dropped us to a billion or lower.
As great as that may be for most planetary ecosystems, I'd prefer not to see that as I highly suspect I would not be one of the billion to survive. Selfish, I know, but if we're going to have a mass population reduction, it would be much more convinient if it happened after I live quite a while longer.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,509
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21936331 - 07/13/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Having a 1/7 chance of living vs living without meat is a no-brainer. Sign me up for those odds any day.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21936504 - 07/13/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well we could start with education, especially sex education, and making contraceptives more available, not just in the U.S. but everywhere.
If you can't give up meat eating less or local has quite an impact.
Or just go 12 Monkeys. Seems a bit heartless though.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21936777 - 07/13/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I find it quite ironic that the pope is coming out against poverty and climate change yet the Vatican is still against contraception.
Contraception is probably the best prevention for both poverty and climate change.
also, if there were no poverty and everyone was wealthy, they woukd pollute a hell of a lot more, so the idea of ending poverty as well as preventing climate change are kind of at odds.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Enlil]
#21936893 - 07/13/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That's a big if. Rather than give up meat, I'd prefer to see a population reduction event that dropped us to a billion or lower.
Any mass population reduction event on that scale would likely destroy most of the planet. The only way I could see it being somewhat less destructive would be some sort of virus. If the US goes to war with China we are also quite likely to see a significat biological reduction, but that would leave disasterous aftermath.
China has really made life, and labor cheap via its explosive population growth. Now they desire to join the rest of the modern world, but it just isn't possible. I think the colonization of Mars is a good option for the future.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21936940 - 07/13/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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All we have to do is limit the birth rate, silly.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21936974 - 07/13/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: I find it quite ironic that the pope is coming out against poverty and climate change yet the Vatican is still against contraception.
Contraception is probably the best prevention for both poverty and climate change.
Indeed.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: All we have to do is limit the birth rate, silly.
In theory sure. In practice, MY FREEDOMS BITCHES!
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21936993 - 07/13/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Eugenics is back
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21937131 - 07/13/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Eugenics is back
How is this eugenics?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21937247 - 07/13/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Environmentalists talk about limiting the population, that's a form of eugenics.
Enlil is talking about killing off 6/7 of the world population.
hell maybe the holocaust was good for the environment...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21937261 - 07/13/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Environmentalists talk about limiting the population, that's a form of eugenics.
Enlil is talking about killing off 6/7 of the world population.
hell maybe the holocaust was good for the environment...
Eugenics means intentional breeding of humans for an intended superior outcome. It became a racist ideology, with a heirarchy of races. We're not talking about eugenics at all. China has, or had, a child limitation. They were not practicing eugenics, but rather population control.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21937279 - 07/13/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well if we are going to limit the population, we would be smart to practice eugenics. If were going to kill off 6/7 of the population we should start with gypsies and whatnot.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21937325 - 07/13/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I hope you're not being serious in that statement...
If we were to truly limit the population, it'd have to be completely random. Or some sort of mass apocalypse, with the survivors being the "best" humans.
--------------------
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21937359 - 07/13/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Well if we are going to limit the population, we would be smart to practice eugenics. If were going to kill off 6/7 of the population we should start with gypsies and whatnot.
If we continue with that thought process, it will be the wealthy killing off the poor, plain and simple. The top 10% of wealthy people kill off the rest of us.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/13/15 01:37 PM)
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Achillita]
#21937363 - 07/13/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: I hope you're not being serious in that statement...
If we were to truly limit the population, it'd have to be completely random. Or some sort of mass apocalypse, with the survivors being the "best" humans.
Doing it randomly would be unwise, we should kill off the weak and defective first, we could use gas chambers!
The Nazis were jut reducing humanity's carbon footprint...
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21937376 - 07/13/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
Shins said: Well if we are going to limit the population, we would be smart to practice eugenics. If were going to kill off 6/7 of the population we should start with gypsies and whatnot.
If we continue with that thought process, it will be the wealthy killing off the poor, plain and simple. The top 10% of wealthy people kill off the rest of us.
Bingo.
say hello to agenda 21.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21937495 - 07/13/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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As automation advances, the rich have less need for our labor. If anybody thinks the rich are just gonna universally adopt socialism in order to help the jobless masses, they're crazy.
--------------------
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Shins]
#21937515 - 07/13/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Achillita said: I hope you're not being serious in that statement...
If we were to truly limit the population, it'd have to be completely random. Or some sort of mass apocalypse, with the survivors being the "best" humans.
Doing it randomly would be unwise, we should kill off the weak and defective first, we could use gas chambers!
The Nazis were jut reducing humanity's carbon footprint...
Lol, that is a forbidden thing to say. Lets hope asante doesn't see it.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21937520 - 07/13/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lets go green guys. Gas chambers for all!
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21937540 - 07/13/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: If we continue with that thought process, it will be the wealthy killing off the poor, plain and simple. The top 10% of wealthy people kill off the rest of us.
How does one rectify that with so many claiming the poor do all the work and the rich sponge from them? If the rich kill the poor who will tend to the needs of the rich?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21937614 - 07/13/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: If we continue with that thought process, it will be the wealthy killing off the poor, plain and simple. The top 10% of wealthy people kill off the rest of us.
How does one rectify that with so many claiming the poor do all the work and the rich sponge from them? If the rich kill the poor who will tend to the needs of the rich?
By somewhere around 2050 we're likely to see significant advancements with robotics and AI... who will have access to these technologies? Labor will be phased out. It's not even terribly far off. If we don't redistribute wealth before that occurs, there will never be a means to restrict the wealthy from a level of power we can't even conceive of, and will never get back.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21937659 - 07/13/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, your explanation is hogwash but kudos for trying.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21937668 - 07/13/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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For all the future robot proletarians out there.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: paperbackwriter]
#21937779 - 07/13/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
who will have access to these technologies?
the wealthy at first, then everyone else after a short while. Just like every single other technological advancement. Robotics is no different.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21937916 - 07/13/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: If we continue with that thought process, it will be the wealthy killing off the poor, plain and simple. The top 10% of wealthy people kill off the rest of us.
How does one rectify that with so many claiming the poor do all the work and the rich sponge from them? If the rich kill the poor who will tend to the needs of the rich?
By somewhere around 2050 we're likely to see significant advancements with robotics and AI... who will have access to these technologies? Labor will be phased out. It's not even terribly far off. If we don't redistribute wealth before that occurs, there will never be a means to restrict the wealthy from a level of power we can't even conceive of, and will never get back.
It will happen much earlier than 2050.... at least if you believe Kurzweil.
It looks like it will take 35 years to get to the bottom of that hill on the sled we are on, but that is because you don't realize you are riding a mudslide also (kind of how kurzweil explains the exponential curve of technological discovery). Kurzweil thinks about 2033 will look like what we think 2100 looks like: implementation of nanotechnology in everyday life, virtual everything, life expectancy doubled etc...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21944532 - 07/14/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wow, apparently this poll eluded me. The Wisconsin straw poll, Bernie Sanders vs Hillary. Hillary took 49% of the vote, and Sanders took 41%.
I'm quite impressed by his progress, regardless of whether he wins or loses. The left is waking up in this country.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21957300 - 07/17/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As automation advances, the rich have less need for our labor. If anybody thinks the rich are just gonna universally adopt socialism in order to help the jobless masses, they're crazy.
It isn't just the rich that have no use for your ass. It is the consumer. The owners don't much care. They compete with each other and automation benefits the consumer. Are you some kind of Luddite? Should we remove nail guns from construction jobs? Take away the power saws?
--------------------
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: zappaisgod]
#21957422 - 07/17/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As automation advances, the rich have less need for our labor. If anybody thinks the rich are just gonna universally adopt socialism in order to help the jobless masses, they're crazy.
It isn't just the rich that have no use for your ass. It is the consumer. The owners don't much care. They compete with each other and automation benefits the consumer. Are you some kind of Luddite? Should we remove nail guns from construction jobs? Take away the power saws?
No, we should take away Capitalism. That's clearly what he is saying.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21957431 - 07/17/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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So woof, was the bay of pigs a lie or did it happen?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21957482 - 07/17/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: So woof, was the bay of pigs a lie or did it happen?
I never said it didn't happen, and I answered you on the appropriate thread.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21957491 - 07/17/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As automation advances, the rich have less need for our labor. If anybody thinks the rich are just gonna universally adopt socialism in order to help the jobless masses, they're crazy.
It isn't just the rich that have no use for your ass. It is the consumer. The owners don't much care. They compete with each other and automation benefits the consumer. Are you some kind of Luddite? Should we remove nail guns from construction jobs? Take away the power saws?
No, we should take away Capitalism. That's clearly what he is saying.
how exactly do you take away capitalism? Ban all business?
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: psyconaught]
#21957499 - 07/17/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As automation advances, the rich have less need for our labor. If anybody thinks the rich are just gonna universally adopt socialism in order to help the jobless masses, they're crazy.
It isn't just the rich that have no use for your ass. It is the consumer. The owners don't much care. They compete with each other and automation benefits the consumer. Are you some kind of Luddite? Should we remove nail guns from construction jobs? Take away the power saws?
No, we should take away Capitalism. That's clearly what he is saying.
how exactly do you take away capitalism? Ban all business?
You implement an alternate economic structure, as much of the world has done.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21957622 - 07/17/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As automation advances, the rich have less need for our labor. If anybody thinks the rich are just gonna universally adopt socialism in order to help the jobless masses, they're crazy.
It isn't just the rich that have no use for your ass. It is the consumer. The owners don't much care. They compete with each other and automation benefits the consumer. Are you some kind of Luddite? Should we remove nail guns from construction jobs? Take away the power saws?
No, we should take away Capitalism. That's clearly what he is saying.
how exactly do you take away capitalism? Ban all business?
You implement an alternate economic structure, as much of the world has done.
"how do you take away capitalism"
"you get rid of it duh"
that doesnt answer my question. Though many other countries have more socialistic tendencies they still have a capitalist foundation.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: psyconaught]
#21958238 - 07/17/15 09:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Are you saying that Capitalism can't be replaced? There are many approaches that we could take to phasing out Capitalism. We could use the political process to stimulate the growth of worker cooperatives, community owned utilities, etc and establish a social base that would be fostered by a Socialist macro-economic structure.
We could also use the political process to implement a Social Democracy and slowly phase in a micro-socialist structure. This is most likely what will happen.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/17/15 09:35 PM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: zappaisgod]
#21959448 - 07/18/15 06:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As automation advances, the rich have less need for our labor. If anybody thinks the rich are just gonna universally adopt socialism in order to help the jobless masses, they're crazy.
It isn't just the rich that have no use for your ass. It is the consumer. The owners don't much care. They compete with each other and automation benefits the consumer. Are you some kind of Luddite? Should we remove nail guns from construction jobs? Take away the power saws?
What?
Where are these consumers going to get money to consume when there isn't a job market?
--------------------
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21960500 - 07/18/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: As automation advances, the rich have less need for our labor. If anybody thinks the rich are just gonna universally adopt socialism in order to help the jobless masses, they're crazy.
It isn't just the rich that have no use for your ass. It is the consumer. The owners don't much care. They compete with each other and automation benefits the consumer. Are you some kind of Luddite? Should we remove nail guns from construction jobs? Take away the power saws?
What?
Where are these consumers going to get money to consume when there isn't a job market?
Zappa doesn't economics, bruh.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21966546 - 07/19/15 06:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
You implement an alternate economic structure, as much of the world has done.
Actually the world in general is rejecting your alternatives except in North Korea and certain South American countries. How's that shit working out in Venezuela, one of the most resource rich countries in the world?
--------------------
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: zappaisgod]
#21966640 - 07/19/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
You implement an alternate economic structure, as much of the world has done.
Actually the world in general is rejecting your alternatives except in North Korea and certain South American countries. How's that shit working out in Venezuela, one of the most resource rich countries in the world?
Apparently you're not aware of the economic principles I advocate, but much of the world has embraced them. You think I want to live in a country like North Korea? Either you don't know my position, or you're intentionally conflating it with the most disastrous pseudo-model you can (ie. strawmanning).
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21971771 - 07/20/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Trump just drew a crowd of 15,000, I guess he's gaining on the crazy guy who talks to telephone poles...
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21971927 - 07/20/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Talks to telephone poles?
Lmao! I'm reading about it, and Trumps spokeswoman was talking to an interviewer... He name is 'Hope Hicks'. I wonder if her middle name is 'For' lmao!!! Perfect person to be working Trump's campaign!
Just so you are aware, that number was a lie, it wasn't even 4,500 people. Trump has done this twice now. When he made his initial announcement, and now. Trump is proving to be quite a liar... just who we need in office.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-crowd-size_55a56d2de4b04740a3de3d26
Sanders drew over 11,000 people, by the way lmao! In fucking Arizona!!!
Edited by Bigbadwooof (07/20/15 05:58 PM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21971984 - 07/20/15 05:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why do you hate on trump so much? He is the best thing that ever happened to the dems. Unfortunately Bernie will not win the nomination, if he was the nominee against trump he would win.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21971991 - 07/20/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Why do you hate on trump so much? He is the best thing that ever happened to the dems. Unfortunately Bernie will not win the nomination, if he was the nominee against trump he would win.
I want good candidates. I don't care if they're Dem or Republican. I would vote for Rand over Hillary. I hate seeing blatant liars run for office, like Trump and Hillary, and especially hate seeing people run for president while under indictment for corruption (Rick Perry).
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21972025 - 07/20/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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>I hate seeing blatant liars run for office, like...
Like obumble?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21972101 - 07/20/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I didn't vote for Obama. Why do conservatives always latch on to lame ass words like 'Obumble' 'Hillbilly' 'lamestream media' 'libtard'... It's really an expression of true childishness. It reminds me of elementary school.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21972141 - 07/20/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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First of all, I'm not a conservative, secondly, I'm the only one who uses the term obumble, thirdly, lamestream media is highly fitting. As is moonbat.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21972196 - 07/20/15 06:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I also notice you dodged the question about obumble being a liar and you claim to hate liars.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21972275 - 07/20/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: First of all, I'm not a conservative, secondly, I'm the only one who uses the term obumble, thirdly, lamestream media is highly fitting. As is moonbat.
You may not be a Republican, but you are clearly a conservative. I didn't say you were the only one to use those terms. I was making an observation that conservatives latch on to 'catchy' words like 'libtard', and that it's the same sort of thing elementary school kids do. It is childish.
I'm not an Obama fan, and I don't like that he is a liar. It saddens me to see so much corruption in politics.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21985988 - 07/23/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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singing to a telephone pole high on whippets...
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#21987295 - 07/23/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeeeeah... I've done that... but I don't think Bernie has. You know, I don't really understand what the big deal about that song is. It's a patriotic song. If anything it says something positive about him, as a politician.
By the way, your boy Trump hasn't drawn anywhere near the crowds Bernie has.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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hostileuniverse
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22016762 - 07/29/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Crazy old Bernie Sanders just came out against illegal immigration, infuriating liberals to and fro...
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,344
Last seen: 20 minutes, 6 seconds
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Re: Bernie Sanders draws 10,000 people, most of any candidate yet! [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22017449 - 07/29/15 09:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bernie Sanders is the only candidate that is worth a fuck in this entire election.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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