Home | Community | Message Board

Reliable Spores
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: ]
    #2349862 - 02/18/04 01:31 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

But didn't the government set up welfare out of motivations other than simply moral ones?

The difference here is that the ban on gay marriage is ONLY out of the feeling of upholding a moral responsibility... the fact that it isn't even anything that can rationally be argued as a moral responsibility says a lot.

At least helping out poor people represents an actual, strong case for moral responsibility... of course, that isn't the issue. Isn't it more of an economical benefit that the government cares about? That and maybe fighting crime.... hehe. *shrugs*

You've definitely brought up a good point. :thumbup:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2349931 - 02/18/04 01:48 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Welfare was intended to strengthen the socio/economic factors of the United States. Homosexuality has little to nothing to do with whether our social/economic progress gets better or not.

I think this is just an issue that a lot of the old people cant handle. Not trying to disrminate by age or anything... cause im sure there are a lot of young idiots too... but i think you know what im sayin :wink:


--------------------
What?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2350047 - 02/18/04 02:21 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Well, the world has been going to Hell in a handbasket for generations now... if you know what I'm saying. :lol:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2350389 - 02/18/04 03:26 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, it has. lol. Its sad that people are making so much of a fuss about it, the government is wasting time and the people are lagging behind. The global drag... LoL.


--------------------
What?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSoulecho
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 27
Last seen: 10 years, 5 days
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Frog]
    #2350747 - 02/18/04 04:33 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Anyways, this is a Christian nation. Most of us believe in the bible. We're not talking here about stoning people for masturbation. We're talking about a severe lack in morals, when someone has sex with someone of the same sex. It says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. I don't think we should stone homosexuals, but they should not be allowed to marry since it is a sin.




Is that so?

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1796t.htm

ARTICLE 11.
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

That said, I am gay. My partner and I could go down to a few churches here in town and get "married" if we so choose to do so. Nothing stops us from taking those vows right now if we wanted to. Gays want the legal protections that are afforded to straight couples... In other words EQUAL TREATMENT UNDER LAW.

Nothing more, nothing less.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 4 months, 1 day
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Soulecho]
    #2350800 - 02/18/04 04:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

> want the legal protections that are afforded to straight couples... In other words EQUAL TREATMENT UNDER LAW.

Exactly.  No different than when black American citizens demanded the right to the same protections and treatment under the law as white American citizens.  Discrimination is discrimination be it upon race, gender, drug use, or sexual orientation.

When I think about kissing another guy (I am male), it twists my stomach into knots.  I know that it isn't for me, and it makes me queezy thinking about it.  I cannot help but imagine that for gay people they feel the exact same way about a straight relationship.  How could I live with myself if I forced people to live a life that I cannot imagine for myself.  Just because something makes me uneasy, doesn't mean that I have to go on some hellbent crusade to stop others from doing it.

Once I master my own life, my own faults, and my own morals, then I can start to worry about what other people are doing.  Until then, I prefer to mind my own business.  It is unfortunate that others are not mature enough to get over their own failings and instead decide to fix other peoples.  :frown:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSoulecho
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 27
Last seen: 10 years, 5 days
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Seuss]
    #2350965 - 02/18/04 05:18 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The whole thing that pisses me off about the whole marriage thing is that back in the day, people were using the bible as justification for slavery, and during the womens suffrage movement, people were using the bible as justification to deny women the right to vote. and here we are 100 years later, same bullshit.

People dont learn  :shake:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Soulecho]
    #2351082 - 02/18/04 05:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Right on. To those who think this is a Christian nation, I suggest reading this:

http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm

BTW, I have yet to hear any reasonable explanation for why gay marriage should not be legal.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Soulecho]
    #2351083 - 02/18/04 05:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Soulecho said:
Quote:

Anyways, this is a Christian nation. Most of us believe in the bible. We're not talking here about stoning people for masturbation. We're talking about a severe lack in morals, when someone has sex with someone of the same sex. It says in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. I don't think we should stone homosexuals, but they should not be allowed to marry since it is a sin.




Is that so?

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1796t.htm

ARTICLE 11.
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

That said, I am gay. My partner and I could go down to a few churches here in town and get "married" if we so choose to do so. Nothing stops us from taking those vows  right now if we wanted to. Gays want the legal protections that are afforded to straight couples... In other words EQUAL TREATMENT UNDER LAW.

Nothing more, nothing less.




Um, before I go read that thing, what is the reason for which I am reading it? 

And you can be gay and get married, for all I care.  I am not playing devil's advocate today.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2351123 - 02/18/04 05:53 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I'm particularly fond if this statement:

"The clergy...believe that any portion of power confided to me [as President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion." --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800. ME 10:173


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSoulecho
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 27
Last seen: 10 years, 5 days
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Frog]
    #2352906 - 02/19/04 02:39 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

actualy, I cut and pasted the part I wanted to bring attention to, i just posted the link to cite sources  :smile:

I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that contrary to your statement, the US is not a christian nation, nor has it ever been. Unless im misunderstanding somthing and you dont actualy believe that  :blush:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSoulecho
Stranger
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 27
Last seen: 10 years, 5 days
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2353034 - 02/19/04 03:05 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Right on. To those who think this is a Christian nation, I suggest reading this:

http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm

BTW, I have yet to hear any reasonable explanation for why gay marriage should not be legal. 







The only justification I've ever seen from opponents of gay marriage (aside from the typical fire and brimstone predictions of civilization collapsing, which aren't justification at all) is Leviticus 18:22, which isn't much justification itself if you take in in context with some of the other passages from Leviticus.

And how to hijack this thread, I'd like to leave you all with some words from the great Robert Anton Wilson about the book of Leviticus :laugh:


ODORS PLEASING TO THE LORD

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a U.S. radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific Bible laws and how to follow them:

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality? I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

PS-- my appologies if it seems like I am hijacking the thread, but if people are going to use the bible as justification for denying my civil rights, then im going to put the bible in the context it belongs in  :razz:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Soulecho]
    #2353098 - 02/19/04 03:15 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I already agreed with someone else that it's not a Christian nation, but a nation mostly comprised of Christians.  Was merely a matter of semantics, not semetics.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 4 months, 1 day
Re: Legislating Moral Values? [Re: Frog]
    #2354219 - 02/19/04 11:55 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

> PS-- my appologies if it seems like I am hijacking the thread, but if people are going to use the bible as justification for denying my civil rights, then im going to put the bible in the context it belongs in

No worries.  I think your points are valid and add to the discussion.  My moral values may not be the same as your moral values.  When our beliefs are so different, why must I try to force you to follow me by changing the law or constitution?  If my moral values are so damn good, then people should be flocking to me on their own without me having to pass laws, toss 'em in jail, etc.  (The 'you' and 'me' above are figurative... not literal to what has been posted.  I'm not judging your morals, or mine for that matter.)

My very close Christian friend would say that everything you posted is OT and has been superceeded by the NT.  :smile:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Legislating morality.
( 1 2 all )
TheHateCamel 1,591 34 09/05/05 03:14 PM
by BlueCoyote
* Are morals subjective?
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 5,654 35 04/24/03 07:58 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* becoming free of morality
( 1 2 3 4 all )
SneezingPenis 6,527 72 09/24/06 09:32 PM
by Icelander
* is homosexual behavior spiritual?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Schwammel 5,388 79 07/14/06 04:36 PM
by Schwammel
* Question for moral objectivists
( 1 2 all )
silversoul7 3,728 31 06/14/03 12:42 PM
by NewToTrippin
* What is the opposite position to moral relatavism? Moonshoe 916 6 03/26/06 03:25 PM
by EternalCowabunga
* God Thinks Gay People Are An Abomination
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
KingOftheThing 8,869 187 09/26/04 06:25 AM
by Diploid
* Homosexuality and its Cause(s)
( 1 2 3 4 all )
DiploidM 5,619 73 10/26/04 05:11 PM
by kbilly

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,654 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2022 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.045 seconds spending 0.018 seconds on 19 queries.