TheHateCamel said:

Many Christan's want laws passed making abortion illegal.

The essence of Christianity is the ability to make ones own decisions, free will.

Am I wrong to think legislating morality is contradictory Christian beliefs?

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gettinjiggywithit said:

Soooooooo where are the Christians taking care of thousands of unwanted children stacked to the ceilings in orphanages around the world? Are they all volunteering to be foster parents and adopting all of the unwanted children?

Thats what I have a beef with. Until they all can adopt or foster every unwanted uncared for child out there they need to shut it.

Like our foster care system is any much better the orphanages anyway. These kids in it complain of being molested or neglected by foster parents looking for a free check by the government. What about that lady in Florida who was collecting foster care checks every month for over a year after she starved and buried here foster child.

For the time a fetus can not live on it's own in the care of others, how can you call it a living thing yet? It's just potential to becoming a living thing at that point.

After month 3, I frown on it akin to murder. Some premies in the 4th month have survived. The baby then should be allowed to go to term and put up for adoption.

It's the mothers body, soul and conscious that will have to deal with the choice so it should be 100% hers. Since when does a females body, soul and conscious belong to Christians or the government?

Sorry, guys, but I don't think the fathers have any say before month 4. If you want to be having babies then be having unprotected sex with someone who wants them at least as much as you do. Otherwise, use birth control if you don't want to deal with your partner making the choice to abort.

Christians need to back off on the birth control issue is what they need to do. They go to poor countries, convert them and preach christiantiy and rules against birth control and now we have the planet over inundated with children born into poverity.

Mother Theresa can't be everywhere caring for all of them.

Arggggggggggggggg wtf?

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psychomime said:

thats a bitchin t-shirt. where may i purchase one?

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gettinjiggywithit said:

You go boy!

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OldWoodSpecter said:

gettinjiggywithit said:

Soooooooo where are the Christians taking care of thousands of unwanted children stacked to the ceilings in orphanages around the world? Are they all volunteering to be foster parents and adopting all of the unwanted children?

Thats what I have a beef with. Until they all can adopt or foster every unwanted uncared for child out there they need to shut it.

Like our foster care system is any much better the orphanages anyway. These kids in it complain of being molested or neglected by foster parents looking for a free check by the government. What about that lady in Florida who was collecting foster care checks every month for over a year after she starved and buried here foster child.

For the time a fetus can not live on it's own in the care of others, how can you call it a living thing yet? It's just potential to becoming a living thing at that point.

After month 3, I frown on it akin to murder. Some premies in the 4th month have survived. The baby then should be allowed to go to term and put up for adoption.

It's the mothers body, soul and conscious that will have to deal with the choice so it should be 100% hers. Since when does a females body, soul and conscious belong to Christians or the government?

Sorry, guys, but I don't think the fathers have any say before month 4. If you want to be having babies then be having unprotected sex with someone who wants them at least as much as you do. Otherwise, use birth control if you don't want to deal with your partner making the choice to abort.

Christians need to back off on the birth control issue is what they need to do. They go to poor countries, convert them and preach christiantiy and rules against birth control and now we have the planet over inundated with children born into poverity.

Mother Theresa can't be everywhere caring for all of them.

Arggggggggggggggg wtf?

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What basis do non-religious people have for judging such opressive behaviour? Why is it wrong to enslave the people with laws?
Accoarding to darwinism, if they have enough power to do it, it is their right to do it.
If I have enough people behind me to protect my decision, I can make every other man work for me, and act like I want him to.
It is only my right as a powerholder. Survival of the strongest.

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psychomime said:

I'm all for the killing of babies. newborns die in nature all the time. just because we have the power to prevent it doesn't mean we should in every case. We have the responsibilty to cull our species. abortion does a pretty good job.

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Redstorm said:

OldWoodSpecter said:

gettinjiggywithit said:

Soooooooo where are the Christians taking care of thousands of unwanted children stacked to the ceilings in orphanages around the world? Are they all volunteering to be foster parents and adopting all of the unwanted children?

Thats what I have a beef with. Until they all can adopt or foster every unwanted uncared for child out there they need to shut it.

Like our foster care system is any much better the orphanages anyway. These kids in it complain of being molested or neglected by foster parents looking for a free check by the government. What about that lady in Florida who was collecting foster care checks every month for over a year after she starved and buried here foster child.

For the time a fetus can not live on it's own in the care of others, how can you call it a living thing yet? It's just potential to becoming a living thing at that point.

After month 3, I frown on it akin to murder. Some premies in the 4th month have survived. The baby then should be allowed to go to term and put up for adoption.

It's the mothers body, soul and conscious that will have to deal with the choice so it should be 100% hers. Since when does a females body, soul and conscious belong to Christians or the government?

Sorry, guys, but I don't think the fathers have any say before month 4. If you want to be having babies then be having unprotected sex with someone who wants them at least as much as you do. Otherwise, use birth control if you don't want to deal with your partner making the choice to abort.

Christians need to back off on the birth control issue is what they need to do. They go to poor countries, convert them and preach christiantiy and rules against birth control and now we have the planet over inundated with children born into poverity.

Mother Theresa can't be everywhere caring for all of them.

Arggggggggggggggg wtf?

---

What basis do non-religious people have for judging such opressive behaviour? Why is it wrong to enslave the people with laws?
Accoarding to darwinism, if they have enough power to do it, it is their right to do it.
If I have enough people behind me to protect my decision, I can make every other man work for me, and act like I want him to.
It is only my right as a powerholder. Survival of the strongest.

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Fortunately, that is not how our system is supposed to work. If you knew anything about the drafting of our constitution and the debates leading up to it, you would know about Madison's take on "tyranny of the majority" in the Federalist Papers. The US gov't is supposed to be built in a way which the 76% of the population who are Christians can not dictate whatever they want on the other 24%. What is unfortunate, though, is that between then and now, that safeguard has seemed to have fallen apart.

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OldWoodSpecter said:

gettinjiggywithit said:

You go boy!

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No, really, why do you think they "should not" control people, forbid things, preach around, force people, or even lie and be inconsistant?
If there is no universal plan, every man has a right to lie simply because he was born with the ability to do so, he also has a right to enslave others, simply because he can.

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They can do what they want to obviously. If the can over power, they do. It is the way. My pushing back and diverting the flow of energy is also a part of the way. 

Redstorm said:

The police, judicial system, and legislature.

If you don't like our constitution, there are various theocratic states all around the world that are welcoming to oppressive, like-minded sorts.

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gettinjiggywithit said:

OldWoodSpecter said:

gettinjiggywithit said:

You go boy!

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No, really, why do you think they "should not" control people, forbid things, preach around, force people, or even lie and be inconsistant?
If there is no universal plan, every man has a right to lie simply because he was born with the ability to do so, he also has a right to enslave others, simply because he can.

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They can do what they want to obviously. If the can over power, they do. It is the way. My pushing back and diverting the flow of energy is also a part of the way. 

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Redstorm said:

About as ridiculous as seeing religious moralists pushing their morality as THE TRUTH.

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OldWoodSpecter said:

Redstorm said:

About as ridiculous as seeing religious moralists pushing their morality as THE TRUTH.

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They have a little story to explain where their morality came from.
So when you ask them, why should I act like this? They say: because the toothfairy said so.
when you ask an atheist, he will say: gee, i never thought of that

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psychomime said:

because firstly sex is not just for making babies, it cements emotional bonds between mates and secondly, as much as many people don't want it to be, sex is fun and pleasurable. humans are in a position with abortion that allows them to control when they have kids. surely it is better to have kids when you are able to afford the cost and responsibilty than when you cannot. think of how many more poor single mothers your taxes would be supporting if abortion was not available. not everyone chooses abortion and that is great. but to take away the option is to cause great damage to society.

and ok jiggy, fetus not baby. haven't had my coffee yet and all the words jumble in my head. glork fiddle moist.

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Redstorm said:

OldWoodSpecter said:

Redstorm said:

About as ridiculous as seeing religious moralists pushing their morality as THE TRUTH.

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They have a little story to explain where their morality came from.
So when you ask them, why should I act like this? They say: because the toothfairy said so.
when you ask an atheist, he will say: gee, i never thought of that

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If you asked any atheist whose intelligence is worth anything, they would not be stalled by your question. Morality is dictated by a social contract in which the population of a given society implicitly agrees to. There does not have to be a higher power which hands you a code of morals. People agreeing to a code is just as effective, and much more legitimate.

The way I see it, no one will abort my child when I have one. Only I (actually, mostly the mother) will be able to make that decision, not any one else.

Also, I don't see why someone who doesn't subscribe to your faith should have to follow your code of morals.

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Redstorm said:

I did mean you, but I reread the thread and realized that you do not believe in the pushing of your morals on others. I apologize, I didn't quite understand where you stood.

In that case, I have no problems with your morals. People should be able to believe and do whatever they like, as long as their beliefs do not infringe on the beliefs of others.

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