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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Legislating morality.
    #4619720 - 09/04/05 05:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Many Christan's want laws passed making abortion illegal.

The essence of Christianity is the ability to make ones own decisions, free will.

Am I wrong to think legislating morality is contradictory Christian beliefs?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #4619763 - 09/04/05 06:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well, no. The Christians who want to outlaw abortion think that abortion is murder. They view the fetus as a life of its own, right fron conception, and any abortion of that fetus is a murder.

So, to them, it's insane to not outlaw abortion. Murder is already outlawed...why do we allow the murder of babies? (that would be their opinion...not mine...I'm pro-choice).


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #4619786 - 09/04/05 06:16 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheHateCamel said:
Many Christan's want laws passed making abortion illegal.

The essence of Christianity is the ability to make ones own decisions, free will.

Am I wrong to think legislating morality is contradictory Christian beliefs?




yea, the true christian way is to obey moral laws, but not force them on others, not judge others. It's like, be good, but accept others even if they are bad.

But outside christianity, it is only practical to force the laws to others, otherwise there would be chaos. Imagine being legal to steal, you would have nightgurard shifts in your own bedroom, like you do on camping. Freedom is a deadly thing, in society it can be used as caviar, you never eat a handfull of it, but serve it only in little pieces for flavour.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: trendal]
    #4619787 - 09/04/05 06:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: Redstorm]
    #4619822 - 09/04/05 06:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

thats a bitchin t-shirt. where may i purchase one?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: psychomime]
    #4619868 - 09/04/05 06:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Soooooooo where are the Christians taking care of thousands of unwanted children stacked to the ceilings in orphanages around the world? Are they all volunteering to be foster parents and adopting all of the unwanted children?

Thats what I have a beef with. Until they all can adopt or foster every unwanted uncared for child out there they need to shut it.

Like our foster care system is any much better the orphanages anyway. These kids in it complain of being molested or neglected by foster parents looking for a free check by the government. What about that lady in Florida who was collecting foster care checks every month for over a year after she starved and buried here foster child.

For the time a fetus can not live on it's own in the care of others, how can you call it a living thing yet? It's just potential to becoming a living thing at that point.

After month 3, I frown on it akin to murder. Some premies in the 4th month have survived. The baby then should be allowed to go to term and put up for adoption.

It's the mothers body, soul and conscious that will have to deal with the choice so it should be 100% hers. Since when does a females body, soul and conscious belong to Christians or the government?

Sorry, guys, but I don't think the fathers have any say before month 4. If you want to be having babies then be having unprotected sex with someone who wants them at least as much as you do. Otherwise, use birth control if you don't want to deal with your partner making the choice to abort.

Christians need to back off on the birth control issue is what they need to do. They go to poor countries, convert them and preach christiantiy and rules against birth control and now we have the planet over inundated with children born into poverity.

Mother Theresa can't be everywhere caring for all of them. :tongue:

Arggggggggggggggg wtf?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4619882 - 09/04/05 06:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Soooooooo where are the Christians taking care of thousands of unwanted children stacked to the ceilings in orphanages around the world? Are they all volunteering to be foster parents and adopting all of the unwanted children?

Thats what I have a beef with. Until they all can adopt or foster every unwanted uncared for child out there they need to shut it.

Like our foster care system is any much better the orphanages anyway. These kids in it complain of being molested or neglected by foster parents looking for a free check by the government. What about that lady in Florida who was collecting foster care checks every month for over a year after she starved and buried here foster child.

For the time a fetus can not live on it's own in the care of others, how can you call it a living thing yet? It's just potential to becoming a living thing at that point.

After month 3, I frown on it akin to murder. Some premies in the 4th month have survived. The baby then should be allowed to go to term and put up for adoption.

It's the mothers body, soul and conscious that will have to deal with the choice so it should be 100% hers. Since when does a females body, soul and conscious belong to Christians or the government?

Sorry, guys, but I don't think the fathers have any say before month 4. If you want to be having babies then be having unprotected sex with someone who wants them at least as much as you do. Otherwise, use birth control if you don't want to deal with your partner making the choice to abort.

Christians need to back off on the birth control issue is what they need to do. They go to poor countries, convert them and preach christiantiy and rules against birth control and now we have the planet over inundated with children born into poverity.

Mother Theresa can't be everywhere caring for all of them. :tongue:

Arggggggggggggggg wtf?




What basis do non-religious people have for judging such opressive behaviour? Why is it wrong to enslave the people with laws?
Accoarding to darwinism, if they have enough power to do it, it is their right to do it.
If I have enough people behind me to protect my decision, I can make every other man work for me, and act like I want him to.
It is only my right as a powerholder. Survival of the strongest.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4619887 - 09/04/05 06:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

You go boy! :evil: :crazy:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinepsychomime
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: psychomime]
    #4619891 - 09/04/05 06:57 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I'm all for the killing of babies. newborns die in nature all the time. just because we have the power to prevent it doesn't mean we should in every case. We have the responsibilty to cull our species. abortion does a pretty good job.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: psychomime]
    #4619900 - 09/04/05 06:59 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psychomime said:
thats a bitchin t-shirt. where may i purchase one?




maddox.xmission.com


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4619911 - 09/04/05 07:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
You go boy! :evil: :crazy:




No, really, why do you think they "should not" control people, forbid things, preach around, force people, or even lie and be inconsistant?
If there is no universal plan, every man has a right to lie simply because he was born with the ability to do so, he also has a right to enslave others, simply because he can.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4619914 - 09/04/05 07:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Soooooooo where are the Christians taking care of thousands of unwanted children stacked to the ceilings in orphanages around the world? Are they all volunteering to be foster parents and adopting all of the unwanted children?

Thats what I have a beef with. Until they all can adopt or foster every unwanted uncared for child out there they need to shut it.

Like our foster care system is any much better the orphanages anyway. These kids in it complain of being molested or neglected by foster parents looking for a free check by the government. What about that lady in Florida who was collecting foster care checks every month for over a year after she starved and buried here foster child.

For the time a fetus can not live on it's own in the care of others, how can you call it a living thing yet? It's just potential to becoming a living thing at that point.

After month 3, I frown on it akin to murder. Some premies in the 4th month have survived. The baby then should be allowed to go to term and put up for adoption.

It's the mothers body, soul and conscious that will have to deal with the choice so it should be 100% hers. Since when does a females body, soul and conscious belong to Christians or the government?

Sorry, guys, but I don't think the fathers have any say before month 4. If you want to be having babies then be having unprotected sex with someone who wants them at least as much as you do. Otherwise, use birth control if you don't want to deal with your partner making the choice to abort.

Christians need to back off on the birth control issue is what they need to do. They go to poor countries, convert them and preach christiantiy and rules against birth control and now we have the planet over inundated with children born into poverity.

Mother Theresa can't be everywhere caring for all of them. :tongue:

Arggggggggggggggg wtf?




What basis do non-religious people have for judging such opressive behaviour? Why is it wrong to enslave the people with laws?
Accoarding to darwinism, if they have enough power to do it, it is their right to do it.
If I have enough people behind me to protect my decision, I can make every other man work for me, and act like I want him to.
It is only my right as a powerholder. Survival of the strongest.




Fortunately, that is not how our system is supposed to work. If you knew anything about the drafting of our constitution and the debates leading up to it, you would know about Madison's take on "tyranny of the majority" in the Federalist Papers. The US gov't is supposed to be built in a way which the 76% of the population who are Christians can not dictate whatever they want on the other 24%. What is unfortunate, though, is that between then and now, that safeguard has seemed to have fallen apart.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Legislating morality. [Re: psychomime]
    #4619915 - 09/04/05 07:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

They are not called babies under month 4. They are called a fetus and for a reason.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: psychomime]
    #4619919 - 09/04/05 07:04 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psychomime said:
I'm all for the killing of babies. newborns die in nature all the time. just because we have the power to prevent it doesn't mean we should in every case. We have the responsibilty to cull our species. abortion does a pretty good job.




how about not have sex, it's much more simple..

the biological purpuse of sex is to have children, so why have sex if you don't want children?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: Redstorm]
    #4619923 - 09/04/05 07:06 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Soooooooo where are the Christians taking care of thousands of unwanted children stacked to the ceilings in orphanages around the world? Are they all volunteering to be foster parents and adopting all of the unwanted children?

Thats what I have a beef with. Until they all can adopt or foster every unwanted uncared for child out there they need to shut it.

Like our foster care system is any much better the orphanages anyway. These kids in it complain of being molested or neglected by foster parents looking for a free check by the government. What about that lady in Florida who was collecting foster care checks every month for over a year after she starved and buried here foster child.

For the time a fetus can not live on it's own in the care of others, how can you call it a living thing yet? It's just potential to becoming a living thing at that point.

After month 3, I frown on it akin to murder. Some premies in the 4th month have survived. The baby then should be allowed to go to term and put up for adoption.

It's the mothers body, soul and conscious that will have to deal with the choice so it should be 100% hers. Since when does a females body, soul and conscious belong to Christians or the government?

Sorry, guys, but I don't think the fathers have any say before month 4. If you want to be having babies then be having unprotected sex with someone who wants them at least as much as you do. Otherwise, use birth control if you don't want to deal with your partner making the choice to abort.

Christians need to back off on the birth control issue is what they need to do. They go to poor countries, convert them and preach christiantiy and rules against birth control and now we have the planet over inundated with children born into poverity.

Mother Theresa can't be everywhere caring for all of them. :tongue:

Arggggggggggggggg wtf?




What basis do non-religious people have for judging such opressive behaviour? Why is it wrong to enslave the people with laws?
Accoarding to darwinism, if they have enough power to do it, it is their right to do it.
If I have enough people behind me to protect my decision, I can make every other man work for me, and act like I want him to.
It is only my right as a powerholder. Survival of the strongest.




Fortunately, that is not how our system is supposed to work. If you knew anything about the drafting of our constitution and the debates leading up to it, you would know about Madison's take on "tyranny of the majority" in the Federalist Papers. The US gov't is supposed to be built in a way which the 76% of the population who are Christians can not dictate whatever they want on the other 24%. What is unfortunate, though, is that between then and now, that safeguard has seemed to have fallen apart.




and who says a human being has to respect any constitution?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Legislating morality. [Re: Redstorm]
    #4619932 - 09/04/05 07:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Redstrom, it is how our system works now. Abortion is legal in every state. There were times it wasn't and it was BS. Why do you say I don't know anything about the drafting of the constition. What exactly did I say to imply I didn't? :confused:

In what state is abortion illegal?


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4619933 - 09/04/05 07:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

The police, judicial system, and legislature.

If you don't like our constitution, there are various theocratic states all around the world that are welcoming to oppressive, like-minded sorts.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
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Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Legislating morality. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4619938 - 09/04/05 07:12 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
You go boy! :evil: :crazy:




No, really, why do you think they "should not" control people, forbid things, preach around, force people, or even lie and be inconsistant?
If there is no universal plan, every man has a right to lie simply because he was born with the ability to do so, he also has a right to enslave others, simply because he can.




:lol: They can do what they want to obviously. If the can over power, they do. It is the way. My pushing back and diverting the flow of energy is also a part of the way.  :wink:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: Redstorm]
    #4619942 - 09/04/05 07:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
The police, judicial system, and legislature.

If you don't like our constitution, there are various theocratic states all around the world that are welcoming to oppressive, like-minded sorts.




why do you involve ME in your discussions?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Legislating morality. [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4619944 - 09/04/05 07:15 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Note the fact that I didn't reply to you.


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