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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: hTx]
    #22884038 -

The first AI person I ever see I am going to smash it to smithereens with whatever I can grab.
You don't even want to know what I'd if I ever saw a "trans-human"... nooooo sir.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: deezdelta]
    #22884063 -

deezdelta said:
Icelander said:
Jokeshopbeard said:
deezdelta said:
I want to witness some real significant goddamn history before I die.


So do I. I wanna witness the human race getting its ass whooped for all its ridiculous fuckery.

As you can tell, I'm not optimistic about the direction we're heading in, as a whole.



Same .


I see you as much more realistic person. Way too many people have this cultural belief, became determined sensationalized knowledge that say's mankind is evolving into a new golden age of enlightenment automatically and not to worry while the rest of them think Jesus is gonna come down any minute on his horse wielding a sword of pure forgiveness in order to butcher all those who failed to remain in good standings with the church out of love.
Your just a well grounded man who has full control of his own mind trying to learn some real shit.


There is a lot of folk here that aren't going to agree with you on this. :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: deezdelta]
    #22884125 -

deezdelta said:
The first AI person I ever see I am going to smash it to smithereens with whatever I can grab.
You don't even want to know what I'd if I ever saw a "trans-human"... nooooo sir.


You seem to be quite centered on matters related to tech ...
Interesting ...

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: hTx]
    #22884165 -

hTx said:
Hopefully it creates some sort of surplus of time and resources and uplifts humanity.

But I can see it going really bad, especially if there isn't a fair redistrubition of wealth (the robot 'owners' getting ridiculously rich, whereas the everyday working man loses all work prospects.)


Well, the changes needed to bring that about would have to be pretty radical.  I mean, we have tens of millions of unemployed people in America right now.  They are viewed as a burden.  It seems inevitable that that pool of unemployed will simply grow and grow as the workforce becomes ever more streamlined (read: automated), and then the question will be not one of how lucky we are finally to be free, but rather "What do we do with all these people?!"  That's the frame we're in.  It's a crisis.


hTx said:
As well, people are relatively resistant to robots taking over their jobs, I don't think many workers would allow it. (I bet after it begins happening, we will see quite a lot robots get destroyed in the wake of the robotic age)


Well the important thing is what the owners would do.  I think in this technological revolution that is already beginning to unfold before our eyes, the workers are not going to have a say.  It's not a question of the workers allowing themselves to be replaced -- the ownership is definitely going to replace them, no matter what.  An AI bot is going to make no errors, work literally all the time, take no pay, and be perfectly obedient.  Humans as employees will be utterly obsolete in twenty years.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22884272 -

If true then the people in charge won't want so many people about eating up resources.  That should be fun. :haha: Especially the undesirables will be expendable, then most of the rest. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (02/09/16 06:00 PM)

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: Icelander]
    #22884326 -

For sure, this shit could get real hairy.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22884517 -

Well it's not going to be my reality.  But really jobs have been going bye bye to automation for a long time already.

I wouldn't worry too much about the future however. It's today and tomorrow that can really fuck with you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: iiilil]
    #22884570 -

iiilil said:
deezdelta said:
The first AI person I ever see I am going to smash it to smithereens with whatever I can grab.
You don't even want to know what I'd if I ever saw a "trans-human"... nooooo sir.


You seem to be quite centered on matters related to tech ...
Interesting ...


Maybe I'm a technophobe... Maybe I just have my own ideas with regards to the ethical questions. Or, maybe I have a crazy abstract theory that I like to entertain in regards to this techno obsession humans have. Maybe it's all 3...

Yea, its definitely all 3.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: deezdelta] * 2
    #22884596 -

People tend to fear what they don't understand...

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: Icelander]
    #22885059 -

Icelander said:
Well it's not going to be my reality.  But really jobs have been going bye bye to automation for a long time already.

I wouldn't worry too much about the future however. It's today and tomorrow that can really fuck with you.


I tend to take the Carlin approach -- watching humanity circle the drain without much emotional investment, civilization being essentially a failed experiment.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22885123 -

I'm a fan of that man.

You and I usually think much alike.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: Icelander]
    #22885221 -

Indeed.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22885834 -

SO cynical.

While I tend to agree with your pov, I will argue the counter-point for the sake of debate.

I have an awful lot of faith in the collective intelligence of mankind.

Our species are literally masters of adaption. Not by biological means, but by technological and intelligent means, tools, ideas, knowledge, etc.

There has been, throughout history, many different technologies which made many jobs obsolete.
As well, many more were created, and we made it work.

Perhaps this will give us time to focus on ourselves, and jobs will become focused where we need them most.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: hTx]
    #22885934 -

hTx said:
While I tend to agree with your pov, I will argue the counter-point for the sake of debate.


:douchewink:

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: hTx]
    #22886186 -

hTx said:
SO cynical.

While I tend to agree with your pov, I will argue the counter-point for the sake of debate.


I'm gonna take a stance on both sides of this one. I completely agree with Carlin, Ice & DQ - this incarnation of humanity/society does seem to me, irrefutably, as a failed experiment.

Paradoxically however, I do know that a humans potential to be kind/loving/compassionate seemingly knows no bounds when given a chance to thrive.

Thus, whilst I still want to see this current experiment fail and fuck up gloriously, what may come in its wake could potentially be the paradise on earth I believe we're capable of creating.

Possibly, possibly not. But until some kind of global scale disaster hits, we're just not gonna know.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22886670 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
hTx said:
SO cynical.

While I tend to agree with your pov, I will argue the counter-point for the sake of debate.


I'm gonna take a stance on both sides of this one. I completely agree with Carlin, Ice & DQ - this incarnation of humanity/society does seem to me, irrefutably, as a failed experiment.

Paradoxically however, I do know that a humans potential to be kind/loving/compassionate seemingly knows no bounds when given a chance to thrive.

Thus, whilst I still want to see this current experiment fail and fuck up gloriously, what may come in its wake could potentially be the paradise on earth I believe we're capable of creating.

Possibly, possibly not. But until some kind of global scale disaster hits, we're just not gonna know.


If I had to take a position on a belief about what humanity is and does, I'm gonna argue that humanity as a species, has one hell of a "God complex" and our drive as humans has been and always be the drive to create something of our own. We can take part in the creation of our offspring, and it feels awesome, but it's just not enough. There's still that itch that just doesn't seem to scratch. Our push to create sentient living beings that are capable of being our slaves is a dream held by humanity since it's inception. Now we are arriving towards the attainment of that goal. What happens after that is pure speculation.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: hTx]
    #22886988 -

hTx said:
SO cynical.

While I tend to agree with your pov, I will argue the counter-point for the sake of debate.

I have an awful lot of faith in the collective intelligence of mankind.

Our species are literally masters of adaption. Not by biological means, but by technological and intelligent means, tools, ideas, knowledge, etc.

There has been, throughout history, many different technologies which made many jobs obsolete.
As well, many more were created, and we made it work.

Perhaps this will give us time to focus on ourselves, and jobs will become focused where we need them most.


I'm just calling it like I see it.  It's not like I'm predicting some future dystopia or anything -- the crisis is now, and things are not getting better but worse, in a compounding variety of ways.

and anyway:

"The cynics are right nine times out of ten."  --H.L. Mencken


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22887014 -

hTx said:
There has been, throughout history, many different technologies which made many jobs obsolete.
As well, many more were created, and we made it work.

Perhaps this will give us time to focus on ourselves, and jobs will become focused where we need them most.


This is money. Where has this so called "progress" gotten us so far? Does it seem to be converging towards something we want or has it shown itself to be divergent as hell?

I'd argue the latter... But I may also argue that divergency is also a major defining property of human nature.


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

Edited by deezdelta (02/10/16 10:14 AM)

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: deezdelta]
    #22887231 -

Divergent is a good word.  I also like to describe man's state as one of fragmentation.  The human species is experiencing fragmentation on a number of levels.  As I alluded to in my previous post, we tend to talk about this state of affairs as if it will happen at some point in the future; the fact is, we are globally in a very bad way right now.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: the inevitable economic reality: automation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22887847 -

Automation and mechanization have been going on since the beginning of man...
And yet...

Productivity has increased almost 5 fold since the 40s....
And yet.

So, at some point, man will have to 'grow up' in way of social relations and the way it treats fellow man or technology is going to do it for them....

Compassion : sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.
Empathy : the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

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