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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: gribochek]
    #545413 -

>Bastard, because I do!

ahh hah ha

ya, that was sweet.

Questions... They're never quite right, especially not on this subject.


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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: gribochek]
    #545416 -

"Bastard, because I do!"...

go grib!

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: Xlea321]
    #546623 -

I get what you are saying, Alex, good points.
"if for some reason the human brain can make up alternate worlds with the help of psilocybin I think that's pretty spectacular too."

I agree 100%. I guess you could say I'm kind of an agnostic when it comes to the question of whether or not these things actually exist. When I trip, and I encounter some sort of fantastic being, I don't try and recount the experience by saying "I saw an alien." I'd rather say "I felt the presence of a form of higher intelligence, knowledge, peace and understanding." I don't really care if it's real or not! The feeling and insight I got from it, whether it came from my own mind or some other dimension, is what is important.



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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: gluke bastid]
    #546727 -

Yeah it's a prety complex area - what exactly is human consciousness or the "soul". The latest Roger Penrose stuff approaches it from the angle of quantum physics in which all standard laws of time and space are meaningless so basically anything might be possible.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: Xlea321]
    #546755 -

That sounds interesting I might take a look.

Keoruac (after studying zen buddhism) said that the entire universe is fake and the only thing that is real is the human mind. Which makes me feel simultaneously comforted and lonely. oh well.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: gluke bastid]
    #547124 -

Why is there such a belief that pscylocybin is some sort key to a higher state of consciousness? Mushrooms like any other organism on this planet must defend themselves against predators, or risk becoming extinct. They also evolved long before even the most primitive humans began to walk the Earth. There are hundreds of various plant and mushroom species that produce a wide variety of chemicals, all with the purposes of staying alive. While the animal that eats a pscylocybin mushroom is busy looking at elves and seeing aliens, he is getting eaten by the next step up in the food chain. While mushrooms do make you look at the world in a different way, and can be excellent tool for introspection. I think anyone who thinks that they allow them to see ?real? aliens and see in the fourth dimension is slightly delusional. While technically I have no proof, evolutionary protection is a much more plausible reason then imaginary enlightenment.

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: DeepDish2]
    #547139 -

But what if the aliens are there before, during, and after a mushroom trip?? what then?

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: DeepDish2]
    #547142 -

It's a "key" to another state of consciousness, is it not? Whether that is up, down or sideways is mostly a personal decision. Is it a coincidence that these chemicals alter our brain chemistry in such a powerful way? For the most part, probably. That doesn't mean it can't be taken seriously. If you consider it foolish to explore the other realms, that's fine. We don't  mind tourism, some of our best explorers were just looking for a buzz the first time they embarked. :wink: 


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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: ]
    #547144 -

Ya shroomism, I agree with you there too. For me, the drugs aren't always the main attraction, the necessary component, but the catalyst.


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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: DeepDish2]
    #547308 -

"I have no proof, evolutionary protection is a much more plausible reason then imaginary enlightenment"

Actually it isn't. There's far more proof that they are alien lifeform that drifted here through panspermia than there is that producing psilocybin has some "genetic advantage". Mammalls will eat magic mushrooms to the exclusion of all other food stuffs because they enjoy the effect so much. If it was "protection from predators" they would have died out thousands of years ago or developed a deadly poison like 1000's of other species of mushrooms did.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: Xlea321]
    #547348 -

Good points. Why would a mushroom produce a substance to stone an animal so that a bear can get a meal? That would be like me producing a chemical that would stone whatever ate me to help a giraffe eat it.

Those mushrooms sure are generous. :laugh:

Pardon me if I'm not following the line of thought laid out, I just thought that was funny.


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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: Xlea321]
    #547381 -

And maybe the mammal eats a heap of psilocybes moves onto the next spot that seem suitable for mushrooms (but there currently isnt any growing), does a bit of foraging and takes a shit loaded with spores and moves on.

So whats the whole story? Who engineered them and sent them to us?


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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: missulena]
    #547417 -

good point, psycybin (sp) could be just like fruits are or pollen to bees, it is used so animals will spread its seed, maybe, maybe not, but it seems possible, sorry about being way off topic, i've never seen aliens and think they are total figments of these peoples imagination, its crazy talk, but if they tell you healthy thoughts and keep you thinking then hell why not talk to some hallucinated alien beings, sounds fun to me


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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: Surf Bum]
    #547488 -

Alot of mushrooms are found in shit, I can see the genetic advantage for mushrooms if mammals eat up whole fields of them

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: missulena]
    #547493 -

Very true indeed.

Maybe a space mammal ate some shrooms, tripped his ass off, and ended up shitting here on his way past. That would satisfy a few sides at once.


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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: AbstractSoul]
    #547743 -

I see them as archetypal... but know they are not "real" but drug induced....

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: Tannis]
    #547792 -

There's far more proof that they are alien lifeform that drifted here through panspermia than there is that producing psilocybin has some "genetic advantage".

Is there really. Can you display this proof? It is a well documented fact that many plants produce drugs to cause addiction, destruction fetuses, and mental incapacity. If you really want me to I can list several accredited biology books. When an animal sees these organisms its brain recognizes that eating these would be suicide. If I gave you a strong dose of psylocibin I can guarantee that your survival rate in a pre-civilized world would be much, much lower. Any animal that does eat mushrooms must eat a fair number of them to satisfy their hunger, and a half an hour later they will be an easy target for any predator.


Why would a mushroom produce a substance to stone an animal so that a bear can get a meal? That would be like me producing a chemical that would stone whatever ate me to help a giraffe eat it.

Exactly and eventually over a period of time the animals would evolve not to eat you, if they did they would get eaten by the giraffe.

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom [Re: DeepDish2]
    #547804 -

"If I gave you a strong dose of psylocibin I can guarantee that your survival rate in a pre-civilized world would be much, much lower. Any animal that does eat mushrooms must eat a fair number of them to satisfy their hunger, and a half an hour later they will be an easy target for any predator"

What bullshit. Animals eat many things far more poisnous than psilocybin mushrooms. They eat an amount useful to them and move on. And as psilocybin in small amounts improves visual acuity and stimulates sexual feelings it would actually be advantageous for the animal to eat the mushroom.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

Edited by Alex123 (02/11/02 11:27 AM)

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom *DELETED* [Re: DeepDish2]
    #548521 -

Post deleted by missulena

Edited by missulena (02/12/02 12:58 AM)

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Re: Reality vs. the mushroom *DELETED* [Re: missulena]
    #548580 -

I was just going to say that maybe the mammals are the dominant specie in those eco-systems and it doesnt minimise there chances of surviving if there a little stoned. Also if the bears eat a smaller mammal that has nibbled on some caps the spores will than be within the bears digestive tract and will probably deposit the spores miles from where the smaller mammal would of deposited them which could be an advantage for the mushrooms.
All just possibilities, i just doubt theres anything alien about them.

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