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InvisibleMoonshoe
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your mind COULD be creating reality
    #2879565 - 07/11/04 11:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

and dreams are the evidence of that. Every night when we fall asleep we dream. Those dreams involve all five senses, they contain unique people and characters, scenery, animals, adventures, threats, lessons and even their own unique kinds of physical laws.

And all this originates in your own mind, when your eyes are closed and your senses non operative. What this shows to me is that our minds, however they may be defined or located, are actually capable of creating a fully inclusive reality, complete with every kind of sensory experience.

Now, to me this is THE definitive example of the human potential. Humans are Gods! what i mean by that is that we can create a functioning world full of hundred or thousands or millions of objects, locations and even people, and have it realized in the form of a percievable reality. How is this different than the myth (or reality blah blah blah) of a supreme god who 'concieved' of the world and with his thought made it so?

also, it raises other questions. Is this reality a gods dream? what makes me more 'real' than the characters in my dreams, who have unique personalities, appearances and behaviour patterns? some of those dream characters (in MY dreams) actually know things that i dont, at least conciously.

Is it wrong to harm a character in a dream?

Could this world be entirely a creation of our own minds, that is a manifestation of our projected conciousness, rather than an enviroment in which that conciousness exists and percieves?

Add things like lucid dreams to the formula and the possibilites increase a million fold. Theoretically, for a person who had totally masterd the art of lucid or concious dreaming, there would be no operative differance between the world of waking life and that of dreaming. It could even be possible to make the decision never to leave the dream world again.

And finally, for me dreams are supremely indicative of the human creative potential. Who cares about airplanes, synthetic fabrics, genetically modified crops? sure these things are pretty ingenious, but compare them to a single dream. One example is the creation of a machine or mechanism, the other is the creation of a universe.

Perhaps the consensus world, the waking world, is a kind of communal play ground or school, where all the disembodied conciousness, all the diverse gods of the universe, leave their own personal self created worlds and all get together for a while, to share ideas and essentially see what happens when gods share the reigns of the world.

Maybe when a new invention occurs, or a new theory previously thought impossible is proved to be functional, what is really happening is one of those supremely creative conciousness's is taking something from his/her dream world, where anything is possible, and introducing it to the consensus world.

ok, thats enough mind meandering for now, but dreams kick ass, and im sure they contain the secrets to the universe if we could only unlock them.

PEACE

:mushroom2:


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2879714 - 07/11/04 11:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"all matter is merely energy condenced; we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. - Bill Hicks


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Edited by bellylard (07/11/04 11:42 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2879723 - 07/11/04 11:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

When your asleep is not the only time you dream. You also dream when you are awake, but the 5 senses provide a concrete frame of reference. This dream is defined by your morals, values, religious beleifs, likes, dislikes and so on. Everyone's dream is different. That is why there is often dissonances between humans. People start to assume that everyone else shares their dream when in fact each persons dream, while having common threads, is unique. As it is possible to become lucid in the night time dream and control it; it is also possible to become lucid in the daytime dream and control it. You just have to be aware that it is a dream.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2879760 - 07/11/04 11:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
As it is possible to become lucid in the night time dream and control it; it is also possible to become lucid in the daytime dream and control it. You just have to be aware that it is a dream.




Ahh ja, I know that feeling. :laugh: I love those experiences, so much is learned... it always seems to happen on the interstate as well, when my woman is asleep, and I'm driving along, admiring the clouds and the musikk... watching all the other organic structures carrying awareness in the right lane disappear in my rear-view mirror... :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2880060 - 07/12/04 12:55 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah Terence Mckenna used to say that the "rules of reality" are held together in the same way that a thought or a story is held together in one's mind, and that it can all be changed.

But of course; he was a total lunatic.. and I loved 'im :-D


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2880202 - 07/12/04 01:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I prefer to stear clear of ideas that over-emphasise the self, disconnect a person from the rest of the world. If we are nothing but island universes then everyone is completely alone. If I am in a bad mood that would mean the entire universe is absolutely worthless, it is my negative feeling and there is nothing else. That state would be absolute hell.
There must be a distinction made between thought and sense. In our thoughts we are locked into a dream like state all of the time, but we do experience stimuli in a very real way. When you cultivate a quiet and clear mind through meditation then your conscious state begins to wake up and your sense of self expands beyond your immediate experience. The mind is in harmony with stimuli and the self is one with everything. This is not being a god in your own universe, but a little piece of the ultimate and transcendent God.

I know from first hand experiences, thinking in that way is very dangerous. I had a trip where I thought like this and by the end I was in complete despair because I felt like I was completely alone, the whole universe was finite and all there was in existence where my own negative feelings. It really sucked. That's why it's better to believe in a higher power or somekind of greater order.


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2880232 - 07/12/04 01:38 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

My first full "breakthrough" experience with Salvia D convinced me of the power of creation inherent in the human brain. Yes...my mind "could" be creating reality, but I tend to think it isn't and that what comes in through my sensory apparatus is "real" in some exeternal form.

Below is a brief summary of my thoughts on "reality" that I wrote a year or so ago:

---

Hmm, well here's my take on the whole concept of "reality".

What is "Reality"? I see a few possibilities:

1) It is entirely external to the Self,
2) It is entirely internal to the Self,
3) It is a mixture of the two.

Now let's cover each option on its own.

If Reality is something that is entirely "out there", meaning external to human consciousness, then all we can know about Reality is what we perceive through our sensory apparatus. It may be that we do not perceive 100% of this external reality, and as such do not have a complete picture of what Reality really is. I will say that I find this option to be the second most likely of the three.

If Reality is entirely internal to human consciousness, meaning entirely created within the mind, then a great many things should be possible which do not appear to be. Also there arises the question of how we all manage to experience the same general Reality if we are each creating it inside our minds. Psychic phenomena is easily explained in this case as a result of the individual creation of Reality. Mass-consciousness would probably be a necessity, again for us to all experience the general same Reality. Unless, of course, I am the only being in existence and you are all just figments of my imagination! I find this option to be the least likely of the three.

Finally, a mix of the previous two options. This is what I think is most likely. There is something "out there" which is concrete, and I will call that "physical Reality". This is the realm of Science, and is what is normally sensed by our five main senses (touch, taste, sound, vision, hearing). There is also an internal aspect which I will call "human Reality". This aspect is added, by some part of the brain, after sensory input. For instance, when I look at a chair I do not see a collection of geometric shapes and colours...I see a chair. I also recognize the chair as a separate object (Self, lets say) which is not connected to its surroundings. In physical Reality this is not necessarily the case...as the only thing I am using to separate the chair from the room is the fact that the air around it is transparent to the narrow band of EM radiation my eyes are sensitive to. So the concept of Self and separateness is added to my sensory input after sensory reception. Also added is the concept of Meaning which we humans put so much thought into.

I should also like to point out that in this case there still exists the possibility (I would say it is a definate) that we are not sensing 100% of physical Reality. Actually, on further thought, there is no way we can consider ourselves to be receiving 100% of physical reality. This has been well proven by the physical sciences; as I stated earlier our eyes are only receptive to a very narrow band of the EM force. There is much more "out there" than we are presently aware of.


--------------------
The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


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Offlinepsikooz
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: trendal]
    #2880775 - 07/12/04 03:58 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

That is why my band is called "adonai"

or in other words "Gods"

We are gods. We can created heaven, you can create heaven. But most people arent in controlf of themselfs, so they operate within a control scheme.

The musrhoom breaks you free of "matrix thinking" and shows you the power of yourself. We can and will create our own heaven.

We are born with the ability to create our own realities, but we are brainwashed into thinking we are not.

peace and love.


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2881272 - 07/12/04 07:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

mind creates reality


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Anonymous

Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2881863 - 07/12/04 01:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i exist. you exist.


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Invisibletoad857
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2881876 - 07/12/04 01:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

last night i had a dream that seemed SO real it was scary. then when i woke up i felt almost foolish to have forgotten what life was *really* like. it was crazy!


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Offlineld50negative1
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2881887 - 07/12/04 01:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

since the world i perceive seems to be similar to yours (i have a mind and I also dream) we must be creating the same exact reality...


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Anonymous

Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: ld50negative1]
    #2881891 - 07/12/04 01:26 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

and because i am part of your reality and you a part of mine...


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Invisibletoad857
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: ]
    #2881897 - 07/12/04 01:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

that's interesting.

:thumbup:


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2881907 - 07/12/04 01:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

maybe.

but a problem with internal reality is that it suggests that you have a brain. Obvious, maybe, but having a brain is external.

So youd have to create a brain to create reality. What would create it?
Oh shit, your brain.

At least IMO

and Divided_Sky - aren't we all always alone anyway? We are alone at least till we die, though many of us seem to share in quite a lot of our lives..


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2881955 - 07/12/04 01:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Well, I think it's more important that we first answer the questions "what is the mind?"  and "what is reality?" before we can determine if the "mind" is creating "reality."

:sorry:


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Viaggio]
    #2882195 - 07/12/04 02:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"since the world i perceive seems to be similar to yours (i have a mind and I also dream) we must be creating the same exact reality...
"

let me get this straight. because you have eyes and you see with them, and so do i, that means you have the exact same eyes as me and see the exact same things?

or to put it another way, you think that the fact we both live and are aware of life means we are living the exact same life?

wrong wrong


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Anonymous

Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2882556 - 07/12/04 04:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

are you saying that i exist only in the reality created by your mind?

i'm going to have to say that i'm pretty sure you're wrong about that one.

what you are talking about is a fallacy called solipsism. do a google search and you'll find plenty of philosophical websites outlining the problems inherent in such a view of reality.


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Anonymous

Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: ]
    #2882588 - 07/12/04 04:29 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"Solipsism

Solipsism is the metaphysical belief that only oneself exists, and that "existence" just means being a part of one's own mental states - all objects, people, etc, that one experiences, are merely parts of one's own mind. One is like a God, creating the reality in which one exists. Solipsism is logically coherent, but not falsifiable, so it cannot be established by current modes of the scientific method.

Solipsism is a common theme in eastern philosophy. Various interpretations of Buddhism, especially Zen, teach that the entire universe exists only in one's mind.

The classic objection to solipsism is that people die. However, you have not died, and therefore you have not disproved it.

A further objection is that life causes pain. Why would we create pain for ourselves? One response to this is that there may be some reason which we have decided to forget, such as the law of Karma, or a desire not to be bored.

A deeper objection, raised by David Deutsch, among others, is that, since you have no control over the "universe" you are creating for yourself, there must be some unconscious part of your mind creating it. If you make your unconscious mind the object of scientific study (e.g. by conducting experiments) you will find that it behaves with the same complexity as the universe offered by realism; therefore, the distinction between realism and solipsism collapses - what realism calls "the universe", solipsism calls "your unconscious mind", but these are just different names for the same thing: both are massively complex processes external to your conscious mind, and the cause of all your experiences."

http://www.fact-index.com/s/so/solipsism.html

here is a much longer and more detailed analysis of the problem:

Solipsism and the Problem of Other Minds


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: your mind COULD be creating reality [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2882689 - 07/12/04 04:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

And all this originates in your own mind, when your eyes are closed and your senses non operative.

Your senses don't operate while sleeping? Want to take the "Swami Sensory Awareness While Sleeping Challenge"?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (07/12/04 04:54 PM)


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