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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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The Power of the Mind
    #1958760 - 09/28/03 03:03 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In the OTD, people were brushing off the subject of Acupuncture...an ancient chinese method of therapy and cure for certain illnesses, etc...and this is the post I made based on what I wondered about that:
Quote:



its kinda amazing how Asian people gained that knowledge way back when with no real medical education, meanwhile other people in other countries were still living in caves, completely uncivilized...kinda makes you think...maybe cuz people at that time were so..gullible due to lack of hard concrete scientific education, that their minds were easily susceptible to believe anything that they imagined...such as "Hmm...something in my mind tells me, that if I stick sharp needles here and there...my headache will go away.." so, they do it...and because they strongly BELIEVE it...it works...so, is it the power of the mind, over reality? or..is it perhaps, some sort of higher power hinting to the subconscious in the right directions to places in the body where it'd really actually would work to stick needles and release "Chi" power? Hmmm..I think I'll post this matter in the S&P...





So, what do you think our minds are capable of, as far as manipulating our reality? How do you think this may have come into play as far as reality existing as we all percieve it today? I personally, know, and believe that we all have the power to manifest your own reality...like I've said once before.."Reality is like a semi flexible steel bar...you may not be able to break it..but you can bend it, and shape it and manipulate it at your will"...something along those lines...
So at the dawn of our civilization, do you think maybe that most of what we believe to be basic reality TODAY, was determined by what the masses' minds of the ancient past chose to believe?
Hmm...


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1958877 - 09/28/03 04:06 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

So at the dawn of our civilization, do you think maybe that most of what we believe to be basic reality TODAY, was determined by what the masses' minds of the ancient past chose to believe?




I don't think there's any doubt about it. People learn by mimicking other people. (Monkey see monkey do.) And from the societal level of organization it's just as true. A belief or practice grew up around a certain need that was specific to a certain people at a certain time in the distant past. The problem is that since people generally do not examine their beliefs, those beliefs are passed on. That belief is self-sustaining even if its effects are actually damaging in the long run! DaVinci had it right when he referred to the majority of humanity as "meat machines".

Through the passage of time the need for it is forgotten, but the practice or ritual carries on by being passed on through generation after generation. People don't examine their beliefs. The funny thing is if you handed someone something to eat, they would carefully examine it before ingesting it. How much more so should you examine your beliefs before swallowing them??



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InvisibleJellric
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1958936 - 09/28/03 04:33 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

So, what do you think our minds are capable of, as far as manipulating our reality? How do you think this may have come into play as far as reality existing as we all percieve it today?




Now that is a very interesting question, and one I can only speculate on. In years past there were many sightings of fairies and brownies and mythical creatures. (Or myths seen from our viewpoint and place in history). Those sightings have been gradually replaced in our modern era by stories of UFOs and aliens, and angels. Are these beings real? If so, are they actually one and the same, but perceived in a way that is relative to local mythology? For example, in NDE's many Christians see Jesus, Hindus see Krishna, Muslims see Mohammad, etc. Presumably they are seeing the same being as in all other ways their experiences are very much alike. It's like a template is applied over the "real thing".

As far as actually manipulating reality, seeing the movie "Excalibur" has made me wonder sometimes if magic, and I mean real non-David Blaine magic, was ACTUALLY PRACTICED in ancient times. And with the dawning of Christianity its practicioners died out and lost their access to that power because people simply stopped believing in it!

We know from studies on certain populations of monkeys that when some monkeys start a new type of behavior, that behavior can be transferred to all monkey tribes of that species. Now that by itself is not surprising. But.. here's what IS: these changes occured when a critical mass level was reached and was applied to ALL monkeys, even those seperated by miles and miles of ocean!! The monkey generates a new behavior and when a critical level of replication is reached, that skill becomes available to ALL monkeys regardless of geographic location!

If this process works in one direction, why couldn't it work in the other direction and mankind loses access to a power it created or accessed through belief?

What is the method of transmission of this information??
When you answer this question you may be closer to answering the question you posed.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Jellric]
    #1958948 - 09/28/03 04:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

very well put...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1959106 - 09/28/03 07:11 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Our mind is quite powerful, and we ourselves decide what software to run on it (or let others choose for us, unfortuantely)...
Peace.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1959942 - 09/28/03 04:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

acupunture works because back in the day some taoist alchemists were able to percieve the flow of chi and they spent hundreds of years charting it in the bodies of various animals, including humans.

so meh.


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: truekimbo2]
    #1959981 - 09/28/03 05:09 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

truekimbo2 said:
acupunture works because back in the day some taoist alchemists were able to percieve the flow of chi and they spent hundreds of years charting it in the bodies of various animals, including humans.

so meh.




I'm going to side here for now. "a thousand monkey at a thousand typewriters" sort of deal. Take a billion Chinese and give them five thousand years. They aren't going to sit on their asses watching Darma and Greg, theyz is gwanna try to figure out how to make their head achs go away.

THey had a long time to figure out how to do acupuncture correctly. It's not like they sat down one day and said "yo, i wanna get rid of my headache, so if i BELIEVE that sticking a needle in my skin, well then damnit it'll work"

I'm pressing this point to much for my own liking so there's no need to tell me "yeah fine", please, skip right to "but what about this"


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1960314 - 09/28/03 06:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

but you see...the question I'm asking here is...what, how, why did that one first person (or people) somewhere in the Tibetan mountains get that idea in the head to begin with, when this was thousands and thousands of years ago, where most people's knowledge of the human body was mostly based on mysticism, religion, mythology, pure imagination, pure speculation, pure guessing,...There wasn't no Science teacher or Doctor to point them in that direction...they didn't go to the university and read books on it...but yet, they thought of this idea, that by sticking needles in their body, would cure ailments and illnesses, due to certain specific points on the body restricting the "Chi" flow...Not all cultures in the world even believe, nor are aware or, WERE aware of anything having to do with our "Chi" force, so what does that tell you? That this particular belief was a unique belief thought up by the Asians themselves...because only THEY thought up of it themselves...no other higher advanced culture came by and "contaminated" the Asian's purity and innocence with knowledge that was ahead of time for the Asians during it's dawn of civilization...(but then again, you never know)...So, the Asians got this idea, from out of nowhere...with no true scientific or medical education backing them up...and then they built on that specific idea..and they believed it was right...so, hence, the belief is still prevalent to this day...at least in some areas.
Superstitions...and Superstitious folks are a good example of the question I'm posing here...
Superstitious people honestly truly believe that they will suffer the wrath of fate and bad luck if they have a black cat cross their path...or if they spill salt...etc, and because they believe it...they do experience bad luck...of course, this can be explained in a variety of ways, and believe me, I know them all, so no need to try to do that...but I'm just using how superstitious people's minds work as an example of how our ancient ancient ancient ancestors, with no formal modern realistic eductation, mind's worked back then, and how THAT may have shaped the reality that exists to THIS Day...such as People, still practicing AcuPuncture...Liquid Smoke, an asian himself, and a medical intern, has stated himself, that there is yet to be any concrete evidence supporting the validity of acupuncture...So, maybe acupuncture only really works if you BELIEVE It does? Again..another example...of The Power of The Mind...



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OfflinePed
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1960437 - 09/28/03 07:32 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

It's a popular belief, I think, that our civilization has so far been the "best" civilization, because we went to the moon and created the internet and such things. Some think it surprising when since-extinct cultures may have developed some useful tools for dealing with the obstacles life has in store for us.

When in fact, our civilization may be the worst example of human organization to date. Yes, we've managed to excel leaps and bounds in improving our external circumstances, but we've cancelled or put on hold all attention to our internal circumstances, matters of health, symbolism and intuition.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Ped]
    #1960794 - 09/28/03 09:29 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

PED is a smart mother fucker.

Skorpvio... on one hand I believe that the human mind is capable of great, magnificient things. Yes, capable of healing just through thought alone.

But maybe they were sitting in the mountains with a headache, and saw the gates of life open before them, and saw the intricate details of human anatomy..how everything works and correlates to everything else.. and said.."AHA!!!!!!!"
If I stick this needle here, and give a little twist...voila.

I dont know anything.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Jellric]
    #1960801 - 09/28/03 09:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Let's be magicians.



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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Shroomism]
    #1961333 - 09/29/03 12:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

thats funny, i thought nearly all cultures (including europe) had an analog of chi and acupuncture.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: truekimbo2]
    #1961448 - 09/29/03 12:48 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

they do NOW


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1961546 - 09/29/03 01:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Question: Have you studied much acupuncture?

I?m learning it slowly..it is a very advanced form of healing.
They might not have had all the chi channels, points and meridians mapped out four thousand years ago, but it was still widely practiced in China, and has remained virtually unchanged in thousands of years.

There are literally thousands of points all over the body. Each ?meridian? is associated with a certain organ.



I think that it far surpasses our current western medical understanding of human anatomy and healing. And considering they had this thousands of years ago, that?s a pretty big statement.





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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Shroomism]
    #1961599 - 09/29/03 01:56 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

The most convincing evidence for the validity of acupuncture - at least, from what I've seen - was presented to me by a distant relative. He was/is an animal acupuncturist... and quite the expert. He travels back and forth between Boston and his country, doing lectures and procedures.

He showed me documentation on what he thought was his best case (a dog... I think it was a terrier of some sort). From what I read of the before and after, the physical condition seemed vague (liver problems?) and the results were unclear at best, BUT there was a substantial change (for the better) in the dog's temperament after acupuncture (I'm leaving out a bulk of details). However, my relative was presenting this as his BEST case. I found it less than compelling as a "proof". If this case were the norm, I'd say that more research should be done to rule out coincidence.

As for acupuncture on humans, the placebo effect can be a powerful tool. If it works, GREAT! But until there is better research/evidence, it is somewhat foolish to unquestioningly accept the theory behind the practice of acupuncture.

But that's just my 2?.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Shroomism]
    #1961652 - 09/29/03 02:28 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:

I think that it far surpasses our current western medical understanding of human anatomy and healing. And considering they had this thousands of years ago, that's a pretty big statement.







Exactly...and thats what I'm questioning and trying to analyze here... how, why, what, where, HOW did it all start? Did it start from basic instinctiod urges that we all naturally have towards progression of health and betterment of ourselves? Or simply just started as an idea, with the minds of that specific era, that time where mind's were almost like brand new blank computers waiting to be programmed with information via experiences, minds that were not really restricted with education of laws of science, nature, and physics, etc... it seems like while the west of the world leaned more towards scientific methods of approaches...the eastern parts of the world leaned towards more inner spiritual approaches towards healing, which, in itself, could be considered a type of science, the west got more into medicine, man-made medicine, chemicals, etc...while the easterners stayed with more natural, alternative, mental, herbal, spirititual, etc approaches towards medicine, as a matter of fact, if you open up most Alternative Medicine books, most of those are derived from Ancient Asian cultural methods, etc...but thousands of years ago... those people had no formal education that restricts imagination like it does to most people TODAY..we all "know" too well about what we CANT do..rather than what we CAN do....So, was it pure imagination that sparked the IDEA that putting needles in your body would cure certain illnesses...or was it something innate, something instinctiod? or was it some form of higher power pushing them in the right directions, hinting them via subconscious levels? I've known quite a few people who strongly believe that the subconscious mind KNOWS ALL....It not only knows where the fuck your keys are...but it knows that theres somebody looking at you, right now, behind you..and that theres a spider in the left corner of the ceiling...But, because we all ignore this innate, natural, "talent" that we're born with, from day one...most of us aren't honed into it enough to develop it fully, but, some are luckier than us...What do you think?


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Ped]
    #1961719 - 09/29/03 03:25 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
but we've cancelled or put on hold all attention to our internal circumstances, matters of health, symbolism and intuition.




While I agree that this civilization may not have made the most advancements (and i use this term loosely) in mistisizms like "intuition" and "symbolism" I am hard pressed to find any example of human behavior that when "western history" has tried it, we haven't been the best at it. All the stuff we made in the last century is more than all the stuff humans ever made before it.

These "internal circumstances" that we aren't living up to the level of ancient civilizations includes health? "Only when the white man came did our people know the meaning of disease" -somefuckinIndian
Are you going to drop that kind of shit in my lap? I may be wrong in saying that our doctors are the best ever, and if I am please tell me, but I dont think so.

I don't see how you can say that one of these other cultures surpases us in mystical matters like symbolism. Do we not understand their understanding of them? Possible exeption here is Ankor Wat but just because they attached some crazy religion to the mathematical amazements of their temples doesn't make them any better than our religions. The jewish rabbis can get pretty technical when they have those argument things. How about the philisophical/ theological discussions that happen with the Tibet monks.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1961776 - 09/29/03 04:28 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

recalcitrant said:
Quote:

Ped said:
"Only when the white man came did our people know the meaning of disease" -somefuckinIndian





There IS some truth to that...
here is a brilliant example that I should've remembered to use long ago;
When you are under a deep hypnosis, and you are been told that you are being touched with a white-hot poker, (when in, reality, all I really touched you with, was with my finger) you will develop a burn/blister on that exact same spot....and not even realize it what happened until you snap out of the hypnosis...
you see where I'm going with this??

As far as what you say about the Indian-quote...maybe this is a better example...
Women in USA and modern first world countries all "know" what an excrutiatingly painful ordeal it is to go through childbirth...and they scream and cry and go nearly beserk, in fact some even DIE from shock, in extreme cases...
BUT...go to Rwanda, in Africa...and just watch the african women give childbirth...she will dig a hole, in the ground, with her hands or whatever primitive tools she has handy, and if possible, hold onto a branch/ pre-built wooden beam for balance and ease...but you will NOT, see the African women give birth in the same attitude, manner, or in almost ANY way that women in your local hospital do...In fact, they make it look like Cotton Candy and Lemonade compared to how most women in the other parts of the world make it look. Now, is this just because African women are just hardy? No, it's simply because word hasnt gotten over to them how painful and hard childbirth is...
See what I mean? Power of Suggestion, Power of Mind....Power of the Synergy of the Sheep of Society....

One more example, and this is quite a common one, whether you believe it or not;
You go to work...do your usual routine..and you hear on the news that there is quite a large number of cases of the flu increasing...and you don't really make a mental note of it or anything, so it doesn't really stand out in your mind...BUT..your brain, your subconscious stores the information...and if you're like most people, prone to suggestion, that is...(to any degree)...then, a few days later...you start feeling sick...either with the cold...flu, whatever..and most likely you wont even realize the REAL reason behind it...but I also want to add, that I believe what determines the outcome of this, the most, is the mental state of mind we are in..how POSITIVE our mind is at the time...if our mind is negative and sad...then, of course, we will indeed be more susceptible to sickness...again, this is just another example...of the Power..of the Mind

There are tons of varieties of examples in the same sense that I've listed all above...
but I'm sure you get the picture of what I'm saying...and how I'm applying this to what "SomefuckinIndian" was saying about how he never knew what Disease really was until The White man came....


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1961833 - 09/29/03 05:21 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

well no, what i meant by it being an indian saying that was the indians didn't have diseas b4 white man came to america (supposedly) so would that be an example of a culture with better "matter of health"?

I was using the example of the american indeans, a culture archeologists and anthropologists call paleolithic, to convey how rediculous an idea it is to call them superior to us in "matters of health."

They didn't have disease even, they must be superior!

We are mapping the genome here. Let's not kid ourselves about which civilization has "put attention" towards health.

If you are going to say that maybe they're attention at medicine was different, they used chanting and insence burning and peyote to cure themselves, and they never knew what diseas was. So that must mean, what, that turning inward, spiritual attention was paid to "matters of health" and this is what kept them disease free? I call you a quack and I hang up the phone!


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1961891 - 09/29/03 05:55 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I pick up the phone and call your ass up again :grin:

Quote:

recalcitrant said:
...they're attention at medicine was different, they used chanting and insence burning and peyote to cure themselves, and they never knew what diseas was. So that must mean, what, that turning inward, spiritual attention was paid to "matters of health" and this is what kept them disease free? I call you a quack and I hang up the phone! 




YES!....but not disease  FREE ...No group of people on the world is ever disease free....but everybody had thier own different approaches and methods towards medicine, be it natural, man made, spiritual, or scientific....It's obvious how "Natural" indians were...they embraced that way of life very proudly and strongly....most had very strong respect for every single living thing, even trees....So naturally their approaches and methods towards "matters of health" were in the same manner..the same fashion..the same respect..and so on. Same goes for the Tibetan monks...they have had very similar philosophies and approaches. Let's not forget what we are talking about here..."The Power of the MIND"

and btw, any good historian will tell you, it IS a fairly well known fact that the "White-man" brought many new diseases and illnesses that the Indians never even experienced before...it's for THIS type of reasons that astronauts would be strongly quarantined after coming back to planet earth from the moon, or Mars....etc. 


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1961907 - 09/29/03 06:04 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

OH MY! better not let those astronauts know they're being quarantined or else their mind might make them sick with Marsian Flu!

If the mind has some subconscious power and omniscience, and all we need do is tap into that knowledge and ability, WHERE ARE THE FLYING PEOPLE! I dont see no body walkin around with insane powers.

Oh, but you do. They can heal themselve with their minds. They can mysteriously map the flow of chi.

At this point I'd like to remind you that I dont always believe what I argue. I've seen tai chi masters knock men over Ryu style, so i recognize the unexplained powers. But I do like to argue.


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1961934 - 09/29/03 06:27 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

recalcitrant said:

If the mind has some subconscious power and omniscience, and all we need do is tap into that knowledge and ability, WHERE ARE THE FLYING PEOPLE! I dont see no body walkin around with insane powers.

this is also what I've been trying to lead to, thank you for pointing that out...and what my stance on that is basically what I've said before in one of my previous posts "Our minds are far more 'restricted' and confined with the scientific 'knowledge' we have learned, from an early age and then on, than our ancient ancient ancestor's minds were". Like Jellric said earlier, Maybe actual non-davidblaine magic was REALLY PRACTICED back then, but at the age of christianity and science, it ceased simply because people stopped believing in it! Sure, this may sound far-fetched to you, but try to keep in mind the basic premise BEHIND what I'm saying here... Thousands of years ago, People's minds had the "freedom" to believe as strongly as we do about gravity, about sticking needles in their body and eatin hallucinogenic cactii and chantin with incense, curing illnesses and diseases...so, of course, today you wont see many people being able to cure and heal with pure thought alone...BUT it has been documented before...telekenisis is another example of the power, of the mind...so is it so inconcievable that if one can defy the "laws" of gravity or common sense, or logic, as far as being able to bend spoons with pure mental-willpower, that one could just as easily be able to heal with thought? Shroomism himself stated something along these lines in one of the above posts....
so, of course it's not so inconcievable...it's just very rare, and for a good reason...because of how our "reality" has been shaped by thousands of years of believing in "science" and so on... 




Oh, but you do. They can heal themselve with their minds.
Tibetan Monks have been known to heat wet sheets on their body, simply by concentrating their mind on making their body radiate heat...Just imagine what else they can do, with THE POWER OF THEIR MINDS... 




They can mysteriously map the flow of chi...


Exactly...and thats what I'm questioning and trying to analyze here...because look at what shroomism says about this...


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shroomism said:

I think that it far surpasses our current western medical understanding of human anatomy and healing. And considering they had this thousands of years ago, that's a pretty big statement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed, and one must wonder, what was behind it all that led them to achieve, and accomplish such great feats? I'm talking about the very very very FIRST squares that took place to spawn it all...Did a single random thought evolve into an idea that evolved into a theory that evolved into hypothesis that evoved into a trial and error of the hypthesis and then, evolved into a medical breakthrough? What factors came in that led to them having such advanced knowledge? It's pretty hard to ignore how the ancient ancestors of Asia not only had magical gems of medicine, even philisophy that was thousands of years ahead of its time...or, was it simply that the rest of the world was thousands of yeras BEHIND its time? Who's to say? Again, I say, it's all tied to the Power we possess..in our Minds... =) 



At this point I'd like to remind you that I dont always believe what I argue. I've seen tai chi masters knock men over Ryu style, so i recognize the unexplained powers. But I do like to argue. 




I like to argue too :grin:    

oh, and about people walking around with insane powers and flying...well, like Morpheus in the Matrix said...Some rules can be bent...some can be broken..
Of course you wont see such far-fetched things...I'm not debating the ability to turn into Superman...but it's like what my own personal quote says: "Reality is like a semi-flexible rod, you may not be able to break it, but you can bend it and shape it to your desires, or unfortunately, the rest of the Sheep of Society's desires" 


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1962348 - 09/29/03 11:25 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Tibetan monks are pretty far removed from the industrialized world. In fact, when their nation was swiftly occupied by the industrialized world, their many pleas for help from the great democratic super powers fell on deaf ears.

Tibet would have been a perfect example of the point I was trying to articulate. While the Tibetan people did not bask in luxury with their many tools and trinkets, they excelled leaps and bounds in matters of symbolism and intuition. I don't consider these to be mysticisms as much as I consider them to be descrying abstractions. The Tibetan people lived in equality and peace for centuries, studying intuitive matters of the mind and spirit, representing their insights with beautiful symbolism in ceromony as well as art.

There is one example of human behaviour which Western Civilization has demonstrated sweeping failure attempting to adopt: partnership. Borne of the nineteen sixities was the sub-cultural emphasis on symbiosis and equality of the masculine and the feminine, mankind to the earth, and one to eachother. This adjustment was answered with and became the catylist to some of the most hysterically violent and paranoid reactions from established mainstream values. There followed the Kennedy assassination, the Vietnam war, the cocaine-addled 1970's, the emergence of crack in the 1980's, and finally the intellectual and spiritual stagnation which has rotted us since the 1990's.

The human genome project, like any other modern human endeavour, is motivated and substantiated by the profit motive. While the profit motive has preceeded many astonishing innovations, it is contrary to the basic human need for community. No one has disagreed that modern advancements have been significant. It has just been highlighted that our civilization would be undeserving of award when constrasted to less irrationaly violent, animalistic, materially obsessed civilizations as our own.


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1962432 - 09/29/03 12:12 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

You don't want to know what I think. But since you asked I'll tell you anyway.

I think the asians were an advanced civilization of humans from another galaxy, possibly Andromeda, who came to Earth approximately ~40,000 years ago with an already set knowledge of spiritual wisdom and living in harmony with nature.


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Shroomism]
    #1962807 - 09/29/03 03:20 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Accupuncture in the ear stimulates glands which influence the immune system.

There are more extraordinary feats performed by older cultures that are deemed "primitive".

The Dogon tribe in Africa discovered Sirius B long before science did, using nothing but stone tools. How? Makes you wonder.

Egyptians could blow glass into the shape of a lightbulb, and could illuminate a room with that lightbulb for several hours using a battery made from a clay urn plated with copper on the inside, filled with vinegar. They used the battery nearly two millenia before we did!

Shamen of native African tribes in Zimbabwe (or something, can't remember the exact country) use miniature skulls laden with esoteric symbols in their medical practice. Turns out the symbols are used to show where one needs to drill open the skull to treat a specific kind of head injury (draining pressure, stuff like that). It's been passed down from generation to generation for centuries, without technology.

Amphitheaters in Greece and Rome could - and still can - by architecture alone create open air acoustics current day architects can't reproduce.

Monolithic monuments, pyramids, etc, etc. All things that cannot be explained through science (or couldn't be until last century) achieved by mere "primitives", often with a non-rational worldview. Can't be coincidence if you ask me.


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Shroomism]
    #1962863 - 09/29/03 03:42 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

why should asians need to be extraterrestrial (from another galaxy even!) when we humans are perfectly capable of using our mysterious mind powers to develop spiritual wisdom and nature harmony?

western civilization has FAILED to create partnership? Ima argue with that. right now everyone is closest to equal we have ever been. we use money to see who is more equal than others instead of deciding with heredity like we used to. money has become the great equalizer. the femanist movement has made even the inferior women equal to us the eyes of society. sure, maybe they still earn 75 cents on the dollar, but they arent stuck being economical and sexual slaves to us men. No one, in our advanced culture, is supposed to be prejudized against because of race, religion, sexual orientation.

Ped's examples of "violence" caused by the "attempt towards creating partnership" are rediculous. saying that JFK was assasinated by society for being concentrating his nations efforts on external circumasstances like getting to the moon instead of internal circumstances like, what, research into the minds ability to astral plane to the moon, is CRAZINESS! (everyone knows he was killed for not being a freemason. every president has been a freemason except for the ones who were assasinated, or where an assasination was attempted.)

I'm not saying that mapping the flow of chi happend because of intense scientific investigation, but chi is real. when i see tai chi masters exersize strange powers i dont doubt that there is a force behind it. But it isnt the mind somehow controling the forces of nature, its the mind understanding the forces of nature and manipulating them.

if you haven't noticed Ped, the profit motive is what keeps people going. ppl are greedy and avaricious and prideful. they see their neighbour (or we could substitute for the word partner here) with nicer things, and they work to get better things for themselves and their families. the system we have developed to control these "sins" are what keep us from degrading into the "state of nature" where each man is responsible for himself and works only for his basic needs, refusing to cooperate for the benefit of everyone.

maybe you're right about cultures that opt for this style of living. maybe they do excel leaps and bounds in matters of symbolism and intuition. I still trust good old penacilin b4 i trust some guy who says he can reach inside my stomach and pull out my tumor.


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1962881 - 09/29/03 03:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

recalcitrant said:
why should asians need to be extraterrestrial (from another galaxy even!) when we humans are perfectly capable of using our mysterious mind powers to develop spiritual wisdom and nature harmony?




Why not?

Quote:


western civilization has FAILED to create partnership? Ima argue with that. right now everyone is closest to equal we have ever been. we use money to see who is more equal than others instead of deciding with heredity like we used to. money has become the great equalizer.




Everyone is the closest to being equal than we have ever been? Money is the great equalizer? LOFL! Oh my god, I am so sorry, but I don't think I will comment further, as I am in a bad mindset and am sort of indifferent and cynical at the moment...

Quote:


if you haven't noticed Ped, the profit motive is what keeps people going. ppl are greedy and avaricious and prideful. they see their neighbour (or we could substitute for the word partner here) with nicer things, and they work to get better things for themselves and their families. the system we have developed to control these "sins" are what keep us from degrading into the "state of nature" where each man is responsible for himself and works only for his basic needs, refusing to cooperate for the benefit of everyone.





You are seriously like delusional or something.. I'll leave it all to someone else, though, I am feeling too indifferent to even comment..
Peace.


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: recalcitrant]
    #1962959 - 09/29/03 04:22 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

recalcitrant said:
right now everyone is closest to equal we have ever been. we use money to see who is more equal than others instead of deciding with heredity like we used to. money has become the great equalizer.




Money stays in the rich families, everywhere in the world. Money is no great equalizer, because you need money to make money.

Quote:

recalcitrant said:No one, in our advanced culture, is supposed to be prejudized against because of race, religion, sexual orientation.



There's a difference between the utopia and reality. It's not without reason that utopia originally meant 'nowhere'

Quote:

recalcitrant said:if you haven't noticed Ped, the profit motive is what keeps people going. ppl are greedy and avaricious and prideful. they see their neighbour (or we could substitute for the word partner here) with nicer things, and they work to get better things for themselves and their families.



Believe it or not, some people have morals and value freedom more than the material.
/me raises hand.

Quote:

recalcitrant said:the system we have developed to control these "sins" are what keep us from degrading into the "state of nature" where each man is responsible for himself and works only for his basic needs, refusing to cooperate for the benefit of everyone.



I seriously don't know what you're talking about. And I doubt you know, either. Try this little experiment. Go out into the middle of fucking nowhere (pardon my goblin) and try and fend for yourself there. Soon enough it will become apparent that you'll need others to be able to sustain your basic needs. If things were as easy as just picking fruit off the vine and just shooting a herbivore without a possible danger from poisonous vines or predators which would like a bite of your flesh, society would never have evolved to its current state.

Quote:

recalcitrant said:maybe you're right about cultures that opt for this style of living. maybe they do excel leaps and bounds in matters of symbolism and intuition. I still trust good old penacilin b4 i trust some guy who says he can reach inside my stomach and pull out my tumor. 



That's a matter of personal taste :smile: 


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OfflinePed
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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1964337 - 09/30/03 12:13 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

recalcitrant, it's my opinion that you've misjudged the basic essence of human nature. It's not my belief that humans are fundamentally motivated by greed and hunger for power. I believe these to be adjuncts of the human yearn for security and happiness. It is only a recent phenomenon that the pursuit of riches and power has been equated with happiness and life success.

>> they see their neighbour (or we could substitute for the word partner here) with nicer things, and they work to get better things for themselves and their families.

>> the system we have developed to control these "sins" are what keep us from degrading into the "state of nature" where each man is responsible for himself and works only for his basic needs, refusing to cooperate for the benefit of everyone


I believe that the tendancy to covet is in fact a throwback from animalistic pre-human dominantor hierarchies. It is certainly not an example of partnership.

Of course it's the profit motive which is behind the drive of today's civilization. Money, though, is anything but the great equalizer. There is a vacuum of resources in the western hemisphere which deprives the rest of the world of basic needs such as food and shelter. The same vacuum is what ejects still uncounted pollutants into the atmosphere at enormous rates, the short and long-term effects of which are entirely unpredictable.

The reactions to the 1960's adjustments toward symbiosis and parternship I described were not meant to be heard as direct correlations. Instead, I meant to articulate a sort of clenching of the great fist, a species-wide example of the deep insecurity and sense of danger felt by the male ego which resides at the center of our civiliation. The parallel's I've drawn were meant to suggest a broader phenomenological integrity.

Along with the potential for space exploration has come the potential for thermonuclear holocaust.


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Ped]
    #1964526 - 09/30/03 12:59 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i would like to point out that nearly every civilization on earth had some form of magic/shamanism. yes even europe, yes even the christians.

not only ARE there poeple with superpowers, who can do things you prefer not to even dream of, but there have always been and always will be until the end.

no civilization is more or less advanced magically or energetically speaking, but its all about individuals who actually dare to aspire. and if every now and again something they find gets passed into the culture so be it.

truth be told, most of you are cattle, its a sad story.

(sorry for the rant, normally i'm not so scathing, and i do understand karma enough to understand its for the best, but the shroomery poeple get no lienance from me for reasons i have stated in other posts)

edit: as far as healing goes i know a jewish kid that walks around new york with a sign offering his services for free that taught himself to heal energetically. no acupuncture or anything. they made a documentary about him, i can't remeber what its called. he's cured cancer, he's like early 20's. he makes cuts and aches go away instantly.

once again you're cattle.


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: truekimbo2]
    #1964750 - 09/30/03 02:22 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Your post piqued my interest until it started blanketing people with uninformed judgements of their character. You may be right; you may be wrong; but above all it's not your place to make such statements.


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: truekimbo2]
    #1964804 - 09/30/03 02:37 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

truekimbo2 said:
as far as healing goes i know a jewish kid that walks around new york with a sign offering his services for free that taught himself to heal energetically.  no acupuncture or anything.  they made a documentary about him, i can't remeber what its called.  he's cured cancer, he's like early 20's.  he makes cuts and aches go away instantly.




This is the type of stuff I am talking about, people! People like that Jewish kid, PROVE what I am talking about...Power of the Mind over "Reality"...I think most people simply think about it, and acknowledge it..even ACCEPT it...but they don't bother trying to EXPAND on it...USE it...Take ADVANTAGE of it...Why? Because they still have all those years from since day one when they were born, of learning what they CAN'T do...of learning what our modern science proves to be "reality", all those years of learning all that restrictive and confining bullshit stored into their brain, that it's pretty hard to Overwrite that data and reprogram your mind with "new software"...Not IMPOSSIBLE..but pretty hard..depending on how many years of the "Common Version of Reality" we've programmed our mind with...
But THINK about this people...most of us here are at least fairly young...the sooner we could try to reprogram our brains with the "New Software"...the easier it'd be...By the time you're in your 30's or 40's, you may be able to heal your headache simply by putting your mental Energy into it, FUCK the aspirin.  Call me a wacko with Delusions of Granduer...but Einstein was called a "Wacko" too...all Geniuses are misunderstood..but thats besides the point...I wanna know if ANY of you are gonna take this SERIOUSLY...and at least TRY to use this FACT, that your mind, can bend and shape and control "reality" to your advantage...and I, actually already have in so many ways, because I've always been too well aware that you DO manifest your own reality...but I wouldnt call myself an expert on the matter or anything...

and btw, I think most people in this forum, are NOT CATTLE....most people, or "cattle" as you say, wouldnt be discussing these matters in depth...most people dont think outside the box....so you've made a Moooot  Point :smirk: 


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #1964983 - 09/30/03 04:05 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

This is why I would never be a christian, because if the mind really is the force behind our reality and perception, and that can be whatever we believe, they have a big chance at existing in their defined hell LOL. I dunno.

In a way, the thought that all of this is kind of like someone making it their own reality is very hindu is it not?


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: caolite]
    #1965073 - 09/30/03 04:50 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not too familiar with Hindu...but if that's the case...Where do I sign up? :grin:
But I know the Nepalian Monks practice Hinduism, and if you've at least read this thread, then you know how the Monk's approaches towards life and it's intricacies are deeply rooted in Spiritual and Mental Power....so, theres the answer to your question I suppose...

btw, your avatar makes this noise in my head that corresponds with the colors changing...like DunDunDunDunBaBOOM.....or something, how do I turn it off? :nut: 


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: truekimbo2]
    #1965308 - 09/30/03 09:35 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not cattle. I'm human. Speak for yourself please.


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Re: The Power of the Mind [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1965331 - 09/30/03 09:55 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Accupuncture in the ear stimulates glands which influence the immune system.

I know, it feels damn good too. Not just the immune system, every function of the body. Try massaging your ear for a few minutes..there are about 60 acupressure points on one ear.

The Dogon tribe in Africa discovered Sirius B long before science did, using nothing but stone tools. How? Makes you wonder.

How? According to them, some dolphins came from the sky in a spaceship, dug a hole in the ground, filled it with water, jumped in it, and communicated telepathically with the tribe about where they came from.

Amphitheaters in Greece and Rome could - and still can - by architecture alone create open air acoustics current day architects can't reproduce.

The ancient Greeks and Romans were mimicking other cultures they had witnessed..in this case the Nephilim.

Monolithic monuments, pyramids, etc, etc. All things that cannot be explained through science (or couldn't be until last century) achieved by mere "primitives", often with a non-rational worldview. Can't be coincidence if you ask me.

And it's not. I'll give you a hint though, they didn't build the pyramids with copper and stone tools.


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