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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Creating reality - does God really help?
    #1346451 - 03/02/03 08:47 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

There are two main schools of thought on this:

1. Focused intention can create a desired result without doing anything of a physical nature.

I would have to strongly disagree with this. For example: you want to meet the woman of your dreams. To do so, you must ACTUALLY leave your house and intermingle with people. If you are hoping for your postive thinking to bring a hot female UPS agent to your door, you might be waiting for a l-o-n-g time.

2. Focused intention along with specific action dramatically increases the likelihood of creating a desired result.

I don't see how anyone could argue with this, but there are two main interpretations, which gets to the heart of this post.

A. Your intention hones your awareness and opens you to recognize possibilities, and your drive gives you the energy to follow through on opportunities presented. (It is ALL you doing the creation.)

B. The "Universe" responds to the sincerity of your thoughts and co-creates with you, giving you a mysterious, miraculous or synchronous hand a long the way. (It is you + God doing the creation.)

Most of you that know me, know that I would choose A. For those that believe in B., I would like help in designing an experiment to test this hypothesis.

Puh-lease, no anecdotes as stories can have many (mis)interpretations and may or may not be indicative of any underlying truth.



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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1346631 - 03/02/03 10:19 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

I also agree we put labels on reality and do things ourself. But then you have to ask the question what created the physical world in which we can do things in. I didn't create the atoms that I move around everyday.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1346776 - 03/02/03 11:25 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

But then you have to ask the question what created the physical world in which we can do things in.

Sorry, but if I want to build a paper airplane or do anything else, I hardly must consider First Cause before embarking.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1346798 - 03/02/03 11:42 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Are you saying that thought cannot affect reality?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1346862 - 03/02/03 12:16 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Well now I am confused, Trendal...If you were referring to what I wrote, of course thoughts make up reality. I guess I am saying thoughts don't create physical atoms.

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Onlinefalcon
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1346870 - 03/02/03 12:21 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

How would you tell the differece between A and B? Wouldn't A be more like sifting through creation with a mind made net? This seems like one of those chicken and the egg questions. As for you question IMO you can only test for A. When you test for B, your sincerety could be called into question. Its the believers
get out of test free card. Don't make the creator prove his validity. Well phrased questions Swami.


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Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I have done it before and it never has an effect on the true believer so what is the point?



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: trendal]
    #1346931 - 03/02/03 01:03 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Are you saying that thought cannot affect reality?

I was asking for a way to test this hypothesis. Thought precedes action which precedes creation of reality, but does it directly affect reality? (No obscure physics papers, please.)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: falcon]
    #1346999 - 03/02/03 01:30 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

When you test for B, your sincerety could be called into question.

So it seems. That is why a SPECIFIC test must be designed with SPECIFIC measurement or indicator for success.

1. We need a list of volunteers committed to carrying out a simple experiment.

2. An agreed upon start date.

3. An agreed upon finish date.

4. A specific task with a specific result must be agreed upon.

5. The task completion must be far enough outside of A so as to be reasonably beyond personal interpretation.


Here is one possible suggestion:

Within one week of the start of the thought experiment, a total stranger will offer the participant a small sum of money (at least $10, or perhaps a gift) without being asked, prodded or encouraged in ANY way (such as looking/acting like a bum or going to a soup kitchen or giving verbal cues about need, etc.)

The participant may use visualization, prayer, black magic, spells, mushrooms, incantations, meditation, astral travel or any type of non-physical method of manifestation that he/she chooses.

The ONLY physical action allowed is being out in public and interacting and speaking to people about anything unrelated to the experiment.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347005 - 03/02/03 01:33 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

lol swami :wink: I like your direction with this thread. that is all :wink:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1347010 - 03/02/03 01:35 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Are you volunteering, strump?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347067 - 03/02/03 02:00 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

lol hell no :wink: "God" isn't on my side man :wink: I'm too lazy


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Offlinesummitstealth
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1347307 - 03/02/03 03:42 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

I'll be the brave soul to test that, because i have already been their and done that.
And i can positivaly say, that yes "though" and what you think of and how you think can and does affect reality in a very big way. If you let it, like i said been their done that and still going through that in a way.


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Sporeworks
Ralphster44's Spores
MicronFilter Disc
Hawkseye

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Anonymous

Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347343 - 03/02/03 03:57 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

I think this test is a good idea but I wouldn't raise the bar so high.  You could just have made the sum of money $1,000,000.00 and you probably wouldn't get many takers for that either.

I think that "intention" works but it follows the laws of quantum mechanics.  In other words if I think something will happen, it will. :wink:

But I cannot be specific about which thing it is.  The universe is rather stuffy about being shoved in a box.

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

By the way, I should warn you that I was offered between 100 and 200 dollars last week without giving any deliberate clues, etc. :smile:

Make a softer test and we will get more participants.

Cheers,

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Anonymous

Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347353 - 03/02/03 04:03 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

For a test how about willing ourselves a spore print?

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: ]
    #1347408 - 03/02/03 04:41 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

I think this test is a good idea but I wouldn't raise the bar so high. You could just have made the sum of money $1,000,000.00 and you probably wouldn't get many takers for that either.

Huh? How is $10 or an equivalent gift setting the bar "too high" or anything at all like $1,000,000? I could have said a penny, but that sort of thing could happen at a convenience store without any creative thought. The result must be greater than random chance and less than nearly impossible. I thought $10 fit in that category nicely.

God can create planets, but to manifest $10 is too much? Maybe God needs some vitamins.

As to a spore print, that is a nearly useless experiment because of the nature of this board and the personal connections that you have ALREADY made. It would be tainted from the start.



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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347414 - 03/02/03 04:42 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

A university conducted a 20 year study into the subject of thought controlling reality. They concluded it is possible and does occur, but on small scales.

I think it was harvard, but I'm not sure. I'll have to find the site.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: trendal]
    #1347425 - 03/02/03 04:49 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

I don't care about vague, obscure studies. We have our own community here of many people proclaiming that they can, in fact, affect reality. Let us put it to the test.

EVERY SINGLE TIME I propose one of these experiments, I get almost the same response: lots of jabber and hyperbole, but little participation.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347441 - 03/02/03 04:56 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Try the test they did, it seemed to work nicely:

Have a computer set up to produce an output in some way (to a file, screen, printer, whatever) some form of random binary output. Like 1 or 0. Or plus or minus. Anything like that.

Now set it to do this over and over again, say 10,000 times or more. The more times the better the results.

Now sit, or have someone sit, infront of the computer and CONCENTRATE on one and only one of the possible outputs. 1 or 0. Just have them hold it in their head, or maybe have them actually try and will the computer to output a certain one.

Computers produce a truely random output, or at least they should in theory. If you run the experiment and walk away without thinking of it, it should turn out as close to 50-50 as makes any sense. This study I saw stated that when a person was concentrating on one output, the computer would produce that output more often than the other. The degree that this happened was beyond statistical deviation for the computer.

Give it a try if you want  :wink:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Onlinefalcon
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347487 - 03/02/03 05:24 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

  EVERY SINGLE TIME I propose one of these experiments, I get almost the same response: lots of jabber and hyperbole, but little participation.



It could be  people who have developed that talent think such a test is frivolous.
Quote:

But I cannot be specific about which thing it is. The universe is rather stuffy about being shoved in a box.




Build box.
Support box with stick.  Attatch string to stick. Put salted apple under box. :smirk: 


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Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
I have done it before and it never has an effect on the true believer so what is the point?



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: trendal]
    #1347489 - 03/02/03 05:24 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Hey tren,

I live in a city that has been trying this experiment for 50 years with hundreds of millions of people in the real-world; and so far all the results have been negative.

Swam


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347603 - 03/02/03 06:55 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

I'll volunteer for the experiment.
I'm POSITIVE I can get at least a handful of people to participate ("skeptics" and believers). Let's do it.

Let's make it something different than getting money though... let's make it something out of the ordinary but not too obscure/absurd. Like concentrate on a particular object being given to you. A deck of cards... a pair of ugly sunglasses... a weird keychain... a marble...



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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1347824 - 03/02/03 11:29 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

The mind can control reality, but not the conciouss mind. If you try and control or will something in to existence it would be more counter productive.

Its kinda hard to explain but if you like need some money for example you should meditate on the idea and try and place the idea into you subconciouss and then totaly forget about. Then at times you will endup finding small amount of money or totaly unexpected thing will stat to happen.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1347838 - 03/02/03 11:57 PM (21 years, 4 days ago)

The assumptions or premises upon which you base this enquiry are in error. All scientific method that must manipulate variables, is just that - manipulation. Like the old Crowleyan definition of magick - causing change to occur in conformity with one's will - he linked science with magick. But, you are bringing the notion of God into your project, and it would seem that you are attempting to manipulate God in some sense. The Being of God is not manipulated by contingent beings.

In Matthew 4:5-7, the Devil asks Jesus to test God by jumping from the top of the temple, saying that the angels would prevent Him from falling. Jesus' reply was "Do not put the Lord your God to the test" (NIV). There is a great deal that can come from these few words, but in brief, WE are the recipients of God's 'gift' of existence. In other words, ALL things coming to us are coming from the Source of existence. Any attempt to turn-the-tables is at best an exercise in futility, and at worst an inflation of self often called the 'Ahab Complex' (after Melville's character seeking "from Hell's heart" to destroy God, symbolized by the White Whale) - and we all know what happened to Captain Ahab.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1347915 - 03/03/03 01:33 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

But, you are bringing the notion of God into your project, and it would seem that you are attempting to manipulate God in some sense.

Come one Markos! Forget the word God. Strike it from my premise. OK? If I pick up an object with my hand, am I manipulating God? Hell no! How is it different if I use the pure power of my mind? "And if you say to that mountain, "Get ye hence!", the mountain must move." (or some such Biblical quote.)

The hypothesis still remains, that thought can create reality, whatever the mechanism (besides taking physical action). This has been discussed on these boards for years. As usual whenever I attempt to make it more than just stoner babble, tons of resistance arises? Now why is that?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1347925 - 03/03/03 01:41 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Let's make it something different than getting money though... let's make it something out of the ordinary but not too obscure/absurd. Like concentrate on a particular object being given to you. A deck of cards... a pair of ugly sunglasses... a weird keychain... a marble...

I don't care what it is. The actual target object is irrelevant as long as it is fixed before the start of the experiment. However, I chose money to make it easier because most people carry some; most people do not carry cards. Normally in an experiment, you start with something simple first. If you decrease the possibility of success, you will get more confirmation out of a "hit", but it would be good to see if we can get smaller "hits" first, no?




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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1348312 - 03/03/03 05:28 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Normally in an experiment, you start with something simple first. If you decrease the possibility of success, you will get more confirmation out of a "hit", but it would be good to see if we can get smaller "hits" first, no?

Hmm... okay, I guess. But I'd like to use something that can only be interpreted in one way though. Getting money from friends and whatnot happens to me all the time... the possibility of a false positive is very high. This is why I wanted to use a different object. But why are we limiting this experiment to objects? Why don't we try to obtain something else? Like the name of a person's grandfather... that doesn't come up everyday and everyone has it "on them" at all times.

See what I'm saying?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1348403 - 03/03/03 06:05 AM (21 years, 4 days ago)

Getting money from friends

My original premise, was it had to be from a "total stranger". I really do not care what the goal is, however; a person's grandfather's name could somehow be manouevered into the conversation - whereas an unrequested gift from a stranger would HAVE TO BE constructed as a hit.

We are striving for unambiguity in the result, are we not?


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1348656 - 03/03/03 06:39 PM (21 years, 3 days ago)

Like you can't maneuver someone into giving you ten bucks?...

I don't like the money idea because money is worth too much and it isn't random enough.  Weird objects or absurd statements would be a better gauge... but we can always start with money.

It doesn't matter anyways... there will always be the -[EXCUSE]-.

I'm good to go.... set the parameters already! :cool: 


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1349028 - 03/03/03 11:29 PM (21 years, 3 days ago)

Hey Man, YOU are the one that mentioned God in the post. There are, in simplified Gnostic categories, physical, psychic and spiritual domains of experience and corresponding reality. The latter two are most usually confused, historically and in everyday usage. Whenever the notion of "the Universe" as a participating partner in a 'working,' is suggested, then the psychic domain has been transcended to include 'the Totality' by which ever name you choose.

And yes, in a purely deterministic apprehension, even picking up an object is undergirded by the omnipresence of God which is the Aristolelian Absolute Cause behind every tiny little Efficient Cause, such as neuromuscular action resulting from cognition. Again, the here and nowness of the omnipresent Reality, which is Awareness Itself becomes evident to the spiritually minded or the religious man (Homo Religiosus). Please...no Homo jokes!

And yes again, ultimately thought does create reality, but again, you still conceptualize that notion in the limited psychical paradigm. Moved to the next level, I would maintain that the Universe itself are Ideas in the Mind of God. It is the original notion of the Matrix (a derivative word from the Great Mother - Mater - Matter, and her role as Creatrix, as in Mother Nature), only it is not monsterous demiurgic beings who create reality and keep us in a dreamworld, but God.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1349247 - 03/04/03 07:41 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

Markos, I thought most religions (specifically the Judeo-Christian flavors) agree that God gave man free will (Tree of Knowledge and all that hoohah).

If God gave man free will... then we must be shielded (it's magic!) from determinism, right?

I suppose then that prayer (or whatever) transcends this magical shield and allows God to reach his invisible, metaphysical, metaphorical hand into our swamp and muck with our "reality". If such is the case... then this is what we're testing. If you want to cling to Absolute Cause and whatnot, then why are you even bothering us and our "petty" little experiment? Could it be that you have doubts? OH GOD!!! HEAVEN FORBID!!!

just wonderin'...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1349318 - 03/04/03 08:04 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

I'll try once you post a finalized experiment.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1349843 - 03/04/03 11:00 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

Actually, it is not so much about doubt. I mean, I never doubt the very existence of God, just the assumptions about the very things your thread is about. For me (and I'm reading 'Mystical Union in Judaism, Christianity and Islam: An Ecumenical Dialogue' by Moishe Idel & Bernard McGinn, which addresses these things), I am more consciously effected by the Deterministic flavor of Reality, with Free-Will weighing in second as a relative phenomenon. The nature of a prayer may be determined, though we falsely believe that our own minds have willed it. This has occurred to me when very specific situations have been asked for - and the same comes to pass. I do not think of such an occurence as MY bending the Divine Will. It 'appears' like a precognition, but not in the form of a vision of the future, but in the form of a desire which manifests in the future.

The further implications of the mechanics of prayer, as a special kind of thinking/thanking/desiring, is the question: how much of our thoughts are 'received' from "Mind at Large" (Huxley), as opposed to 'created?' Of course a Buddhist answer is that Mind creates it all, but there is no such thing as OUR Mind. Ownership is just the illusion of the ego assuming false responsibility. Christianity at its worst divided up our thoughts as deriving from God or Satan, like the little angels and devils on the shoulders of cartoon characters. The great scientific thoughts, translated into equations and empirically-based experiments may also be Pure Ideas received on the receiving 'film' of the mind - infused directly from Reality through the medium of mind-body. It's not like Einstein 'created' the theories of relativity. E=mc2 is an operating principle from the beginning of time. Albert's thinking translated it down (perhaps) from Independently Existing Pure Idea, which is also an active principle, through himself. I suppose one could say we 'channel' thoughts. On the lower end of things, we have learned to attribute language to mere physical impulses; "I have to take a s**t,'' or ''I'm hungry,'' or ''Nice tits!'' But do these mental/vocal pronouncements really rate as thinking or creating?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1350316 - 03/04/03 02:05 PM (21 years, 2 days ago)

Markos, your thoughts and words are very deep, but this is what I am desperately trying to get away from: philosophizing; would much rather do ACTUAL testing.

Why is it people would rather talk than just participate? Then we can jabber away and figure out why the desired results were or were not achieved.

As you have such keen insight, why not join in, and if you don't like my terms, then suggest an alternative

Let me restate one last time: I would like to design a simple test to see if thoughts/prayers/intentions/dreams can affect reality in OUR test. Not someone else's; not a long time ago, not theoretically, not "Hey, I have seen it time and time again in my life.", but Right here in our communilty and Right now.

I will finalize the experiment to start on Friday, March 7th and to run through Thursday, March 13th. The object will be to manifest a gift from a total stranger without asking in any verbal or nonverbal way; nor putting yoursel in a position where a gift is likely to occur. (In other words, the object is not to play semantic or lawyerese games to get around the rules, but to follow in the spirit in which it was designed.)

From here on in, I would only like the names of those willing to particpate fully and whether you believe beforehand that the experiment will fail or succeed and what techniques you plan to use. Let's keep the theoretical banter down until AFTER the experiment.

I will state for the record that I am highly skeptical, yet will put my full energies in the form of daily affirmation and visualization to make this event occur.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (03/04/03 06:54 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1350430 - 03/04/03 03:08 PM (21 years, 2 days ago)

OK, fine. Still sounds like magick to me, but go right ahead. Sorry to be difficult, but such things happen all the time, so even by applying arbitrary time constraints, a controlled experiment is not being constructed.

Yesterday, while chatting with a colleague, a very attractive woman poked her head into my room to ask for someone's location, which I gave her. When she left, I said quietly to my colleague "...or you can wait here with me til he returns," to which my [female] colleague said "You're bad!" A minute later, this tall, slender, attractive South American returns to ask if I knew the whereabouts of the person she was seeking, and I did, so I invited her to wait in my room - which she did. She is a lawyer, been in FL only 6 months, blah, blah...got up to sit much closer to me...agreed how "superficial" Miamians are - no passion for anything but ostentatiousness...showed me a ringless ring-finger in a couple of not-so-subtle woman mudras...

Hey, I don't know about you, but I got my request for an audience, and I considered that to be a 'gift' of the type you suggest. If I were not involved with my Lady, I had an open opportunity yesterday. Eventually, I took her to the person, and she stopped back in to say thanks and nice to meet me, even though we exchanged no names. Today kids took FCAT exams in Florida. Though I had volunteered to collect and distribute test materials, the test chairperson doesn't like me, and left me to read my books all day (since I couldn't see students during this critical exam) - just what I wanted from her. Tomorrow may be the same - getting paid to read all day - sweet!

So, OK, from 3/7-3/13 I can toss my nets into the Ocean of Existence, and see what treasures I can retrieve.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1350881 - 03/04/03 07:02 PM (21 years, 2 days ago)

OK, fine. Still sounds like magick to me,
So what is your point? Magick is just a word, a concept. When Christ said, "Ask and you shall receive." he was talking about this type of magick.

but go right ahead.
Your permission means the world to me.

Hey, I don't know about you, but I got my request for an audience, and I considered that to be a 'gift' of the type you suggest.
Once again, this is EXACTLY what I want to get away from and NOT the type that I suggest at all, which is why I initially specified a monetary gift of $10; it is NOT subject to interpretation. Your idea of what a gift is, is HIGHLY interpretive; i.e. subjective.

The object of the test is to receive a physical gift, an object worth $10 or more; not a dandelion nor a pencil, nor a coin, nor a candy mint, nor a ....



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleThe_Clash_UK
Day Tripper
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Posts: 1,000
Loc: UK
Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1351095 - 03/04/03 09:16 PM (21 years, 2 days ago)

Blimay Swami!
Your in control of more than just a thread here! A whole experiment! Im buzzin to fuck man, your shinnin bright right now.
Quote:

will state for the record that I am highly skeptical, yet will put my full energies in the form of daily affirmation and visualization to make this event occur. 



If you are "highly skeptical" then how can you put your full energies into it? Im sure youd have to have 100% faith in yourself to put your "full" energies into it. 
Quote:

I would only like the names of those willing to particpate fully



The_Clash_UK
Quote:

and whether you believe beforehand that the experiment will fail or succeed



I believe that if I and others are able to "manifest a gift from a total stranger" then this will be a failed experiment (from Swamis POV Anyhow). So I believe this experiment will be a succes!
Quote:

and what techniques you plan to use



I will tune myself into the force I always do. Swami! Im buzzin brother. Please shine forever and so will I :grin:
Quote:

follow in the spirit in which it was designed



What? A selfish power control, i am always right, thingy ma bob? 


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Crash a cig guvnor?

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OfflineStrangeDays
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1351286 - 03/05/03 12:58 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

Take into consideration:

Some tools of creation based on CWG.
(TWD)Thought Word Deed = creating.
(BDH)Be Do Have = a way of Life.

TWD and BDH are interconnected to a large degree.
Use Be-Do-Have in correlation with Thought-Word-Deed.

What do you wish for ? I wish for more peace in Life.

Thought - Focus on peace. Think about it. Imagine it. Feel it.
Become clear on your definition of peace and what it means to be peaceful. Think about it often until you are clear about peace.
Word - Talk about it with others. Start saying statements that declare that you are a peaceful person. Remember your thoughts.
Deed - Do peaceful things. Make peaceful decisions. Act peacefull.

Ok. How is that interconnected with Be-Do-Have ?
You used thought-word-deed to become peaceful, now you are peaceful. Automatically and naturally all aspects of Life
will change to conform to your definition of peace.

Becoming peaceful is a process, it is something that you grow to become. Keep choosing to be peaceful every at every opportunity that comes, use it in every situation.

Remember, God is your friend and that you don't even need to ask for Her help in these matters, for it is already here.


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OfflineStrangeDays
Bob
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: StrangeDays]
    #1351299 - 03/05/03 01:11 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

This morning I got in an almost nasty argument with someone who is very dear to me. An hour later, minutes after I wrote my post, she called me and we made peace.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: The_Clash_UK]
    #1351434 - 03/05/03 03:09 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

What? A selfish power control,
An experiment is a "controlled" endeavor. Selfish? Everyone always acts in their own best interest no matter how it appears. (Yes, even Mother Theresa.)

i am always right, thingy ma bob?
With no facilitator to direct, do you truly believe that this will get off the ground, or will result in several pages of discussion with no action?

If you are "highly skeptical" then how can you put your full energies into it?
I have tested "miraculous" health supplements that I was highly skeptical of. I put my "full energies" into following the program/directions to the letter and for the full time duration recommended. If the product had validity, it would work with or without my doubting it. Comprende?

In this particular case, twice a day for 20 minutes, I am going to envision an unknown female giving me something homemade and from her heart for reasons yet to be discovered. I will be "open" to all possibilities, but am going to try focusing on this semi-specific picture.

My affirmation will be: "I am worthy and willing to accept an unexpected gift." I will repeat this often throughout the day. Not merely repeating the words, but trying them on to see if I feel really worthy and ready, and if not; to examine any mental "blockage".



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: StrangeDays]
    #1351474 - 03/05/03 03:37 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

Remember, God is your friend and that you don't even need to ask for Her help in these matters, for it is already here.

And that is why thousands of children are starving to death e-v-e-r-y day; because the help is ALREADY here - no need to even ask!

Oh, I am sorry, help is only here for middle-class Americans that have their basic needs met and can buy books like CWG to combat their neurosis. ("Gee, I am only driving a 3 yrear-old Volvo, but Mary has a brand new Mercedes. How can I deal with that? Boo-Hoo! Wait! I will go to Barnes & Noble to find an answer.")





--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleThe_Clash_UK
Day Tripper
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Posts: 1,000
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1351495 - 03/05/03 03:47 AM (21 years, 2 days ago)

I will join this experiment. Could you lay down what needs to be done CLEARLY in one post.

yes but who has the control over this "endeavor"?
Power.....Control.....you want it, I need you to have it!

I must agree though, On an LSD trip I endevored on, i saw everyones selfishness, including my own. :frown:

Quote:

With no facilitator to direct, do you truly believe that this will get off the ground, or will result in several pages of discussion with no action?


You began this whole thing, you knew from the start you would have to take control of any experiment, as you are in control of this thread..YES....YOU are.

I Love you Swami
Lets shine forever


--------------------
Crash a cig guvnor?

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1352368 - 03/05/03 10:30 AM (21 years, 1 day ago)

As trivial as the 'gift' you name, technically speaking, it does belong to magick, and without debate, the intention of receiving in this manner is characteristic of the Left Hand Path - Black Magick - Ban Marga - Goetia - or whatever tradition one might select, West or East.

Prayer belongs to a completely different species of intentionality - a point you fail to acknowledge, perhaps because you refuse to learn the stated differences. The first and most obvious difference is the intentionality of giving rather than getting, and again, prayer is an I-Thou relationship, not an I-It relationship (using Martin Buber's terms). The mentality of the would-be Magus is one of control and manipulation of unseen forces. The mentality of prayerfulness is rooted in a higher center of will, oftentimes described as the Heart Center among those whose lives consist of prayer (Jewish, Christian or Muslim). Prayer aims towards Union with God and neighbor, manifested through contemplation and service to others.

The center of magick, and sorcery is frequently symbolized by another center - the Manipura (Indo-European root of Manipu-lation) Chakra in Indian Yoga. That center's descriptions include "three swastikas" around a triangle, and the "power to destroy and create the world," ostensibly through the element Fire which this center symbolizes. Neither of these descriptions escaped Hitler's appropriation of Aryan occultism in the Nazi Holocaust (or Casteneda's navel "gap").

You might not care, but for me the most important question is about self-inquiry. It is essential to know where one is coming from - to illuminate the type of one's motivation. The Crowleyan dictum: "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be the Whole of the Law - Love Under Will," is an inversion of the two centers named above - "Love Under Will." It's your experiment, but I just wanted to call a spade, a spade. I gave this stuff up 30 years ago.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Anonymous

Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1354403 - 03/06/03 07:46 AM (21 years, 22 hours ago)

Skeptic that I am I will participate too. But I am skeptical that you will accept answers to this experiment unless they meet some sort of criteria you are already preordained.

So I am to receive a gift that is unasked for in any way.

Ok.

It is marked in my DayTimer.

Cheers,

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: ]
    #1355164 - 03/06/03 01:51 PM (21 years, 16 hours ago)

But I am skeptical that you will accept answers to this experiment unless they meet some sort of criteria you are already preordained.

Huh? Without any preordained criterion, ALL results will be totally subjective and will demonstrate very little. How would you BETTER organize such an exercise, oh wise one?

Today a total stranger "gave" me a slightly used $200 racquetball racquet for $50. He is a rep for the company so it is not stolen. With no criterion, many would construe this as a hit. I do not, as this was an exchange and a bargain, but not a gift. Besides, I had not yet begun my visualization.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1355293 - 03/06/03 03:12 PM (21 years, 15 hours ago)

Good post man, i think i agree with you.

I like to think of it like this,

It (all things) are all a figment of our imagination or indeed like edgar alen poe said "life is but a dream with in a dream"

The entire universe could be all in our heads, kinda like were walking on a planet in our heads called "earth" Sorta like in the end of the men in black movie, they were playing with marbles with universes in it.

The basis of your speach would be that why does knowing anything about god, help you build your reality. In many ways i agree.


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

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Anonymous

Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1356024 - 03/07/03 02:09 AM (21 years, 4 hours ago)

Sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. I meant that you would move the goal post after people came up with things that they received. My bad. I understand now.

T-1 day and counting.

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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1356218 - 03/07/03 03:54 AM (21 years, 2 hours ago)

Right. Im playing. Unexpected gift from a stranger coming my way. OMM shiva shanti rmkdsf sdfks


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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InvisibleThe_Clash_UK
Day Tripper
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,000
Loc: UK
Re: Creating reality - does God really help? [Re: Swami]
    #1357202 - 03/08/03 01:31 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Clearly lay down whats goin on in this experiemtn swami old boy


--------------------
Crash a cig guvnor?

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