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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Shroomism vs. Reality
    #603770 - 04/09/02 10:28 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Okay. For starters...

1. Prove that aliens exist with some evidence other than your beloved "experience", which is totally unverifiable (and saying that there are thousands of "witnesses" is just the philosophical blunder of the appeal to common practice).

2. Prove that you can communicate telepathically. This one will be harder for you, as you'll have to actually conduct an experiment rather than just show us some evidence. If you could prove this, you'll probably win the Nobel Prize because then we would have some way to combat the bad aliens (I'd personally kiss your feet if you proved this).


The only rules that you must follow are good critical thinking and good logic. Now have at it.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineTheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 7,575
Loc: border of Canada and Mexi...
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #603777 - 04/09/02 10:39 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I can prove telepathy ... I can read your thoughts and tell what your doing.

You're naked and making a ham sandwhich in the kitchen. You're thinking about painting your body with the mayonaise.

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OfflineskaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #603811 - 04/09/02 11:06 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

No, I say he's sitting in front of a computer reading a post. And he's thinking "that's bullshit, there's no such thing as telepathy."

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #603844 - 04/09/02 11:44 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I havn't got the time.

Tell you what, why don't you prove aliens don't exist with a reason other than your beloved "I havn't seen them yet"?

Then prove that you can't communicate telepathically.

We're all waiting with baited breath...yawn....



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #603869 - 04/10/02 12:13 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Prove that aliens exist with some evidence other than your beloved "experience", which is totally unverifiable

Ok let me explain something to you, which I'm sure you are well aware of.
Proving the existance of aliens is impossible to do at this time. I could show you the evidence, bring you thousands of abductees, show you pictures of UFOs and aliens.. but until you actually see one standing in front of you there is no way for me to prove something like that. You could say the pictures are fake, the abductees are crazy, and the evidence is nonsene. Not only that, but nowhere did I say I want or have the need to prove the existance of aliens to anyone. If you don't want to believe, you're not going to.. its as simple as that. I'm not here to prove the existance of aliens to anyone. And trust me, people have asked me to do this before, and I bring forth massive amounts of evidence and it is called non-scientific, rigged evidence, or biased. Any skeptic can debunk any amount of evidence as illogical so long as they don't want to believe it. My position is not to prove myself to anyone, let alone prove the existance of another species.

I could say I ate a steak for dinner, and it was the most delicous steak I have ever eaten in my life. Prove it to me, you say.. I could show you pictures of the steak, bring you the cook who made it and the waiter who brought it to me. That's not evidence. I could puke the steak up for you, but it wont look much like a steak now will it?

Really, I don't see why it upsets you so that I talk openly about aliens. Sure, maybe you don't think they exist. But if you truly want me to prove the existance of aliens, first prove to me that you exist, and you are not just a computer program. Then maybe I will take you out to the woods of west virginia. (Note I am not saying that aliens only go to the woods of West Virginia, only that in that particular environment the existance will be much more noticeable for you)

Here I am using critical thinking and good logic. I know that if I present evidence to you about the existance of aliens, you will tell me that it is not concrete evidence. I think you know that there is no concrete evidence. If you really truly want that, I will give you evidence.

It is important to note that you cannot PROVE an experience you have had to someone else. I cannot prove to you that I was happy yesterday any more than I can prove I have had experiences with aliens. The only way to prove something like that is to experience it for yourself, something I cannot do for you. The only thing I can do is show you the almost overwhelming amount of evidence about the presence of extra-terrestrial intelligent life on our planet, and/or you can come with me to a gathering and perhaps open your mind a bit and experience it for yourself.

Prove that you can communicate telepathically.

This is more feasible.
Telepathy is direct mind-to-mind communication between two or more people who have developed a bond and are usually close emotionally. Anything such as reading a playing card before you see it is not telepathy, that is clairvoyance. A test such as you speak would have to be in a controlled environment, and would probably be done in the following method:
Two people who have developed an alleged telepathic bond would enter seperate rooms, where they cannot see or hear each other and have no means of electronic communication or any other form other than their own brain. Several tests would have to be done in order to establish a conclusive result.
The two people would take turns sending and recieving a telepathic signal. Which could start by one person being the sender, and sending a color to the second person. They would write it down, and the reciever would write down the impression he recieves. A light could be in each room to tell the person when the other person has finished "recieving" the signal. There would be 8 colors to be used, so 10 runs each should be sufficient to determine a conclusive result. Of course, neutral persons would have to be present to observe and make sure neither party was cheating.
Then the test could move to something else, such as the sender sending shapes to the other person. Five shapes would be used; a triangle, a circle, a square, a cross, and three parallel wavy lines. Ten runs each should be sufficient for that as well.
The test could also move onto numbers. And words. The possibilities are endless.

However as with any test, many variables effect the outcome. The two people would have to have a very good connection and be confident in their abilities. And what ratio of correct hits would have to be obtained in order to determine the test a success? I have practiced the color routine with a close friend on several occassions, and we have had a 90% success rate on our best day. That's 9 out of 10 right with 8 colors involved. What are those odds?
I think the only problem would be the environment. Psychic abilities are hindered if the people involved are nervous, stressed out, or not believing in their own abilities. There have been cases of people actually getting negative results while guessing the shapes on Zener cards. That is.. where they should, by default, get 10 out of 50 correct even if they are just guessing, some people have consistently gotten 0 out of 50. If anything this proves a psychic ability. These people are subconsciously expecting to be wrong, and are using their psychic abilities to prove themselves right. Of course coincidence could be to blame as well.

Basically the test would first have to determine what the odds are, and then what the percentage of correct 'hits' there would have to be in order to get conclusive results.

But I think something like this could be done. It might take time, but I would love to participate, even though I'm not the worlds best or most efficient telepath. I'll start practicing.

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Invisibletak
geo's henchman
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/20/00
Posts: 3,776
Loc: nowhereland
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #603972 - 04/10/02 02:09 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Dont hate. I dont see shroomism pressing his ideas and beliefs on anyone. We all share ideas and what we believe in on here, and mixing our ideas with others, and learning new ideas we wouldnt have ever thought of without other people here. This is what makes it fun. What we know isnt always the truth, 2+2 may = 5 who knows. The truth is what we believe, and doesnt matter what others think. Truths may be shared. Whether its true or not is not hte point, its whether you believe it to be true or not, and what you can learn from it. Or something. I think im gonna go make me a ham sandwich


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #603989 - 04/10/02 03:01 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Proving the existance of aliens is impossible to do at this time.
Not at all. If they are physical objects then proving their existence is hardly impossible. However, if they are objects of fantasy, then your statement is true.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleClark
Bar RoomSuperman

Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 179
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #604005 - 04/10/02 03:38 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

The only rules that you must follow are good critical thinking and good logic. Now have at it.




"Critical thinking", eh?
"Good logic", he says...

The fact that you so vigorously uphold the rationilist screed against the existence of aliens leads me to the inevitable conclusion that you're one of them!

The only satisfaction I get from knowing this is that as long as you're here abetting the military-industrial whitewash, you can't be out mutilating cattle with your buddies or conducting invasive bodily probes of right minded Earth folk like myself.


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Clark]
    #604028 - 04/10/02 04:57 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

body probe is a bit of a misnomer
actually they are plugging you in

physical reality? are people referring to the frequencies our senses are tuned into?
light, sound and matter are all simply vibration.....soundwaves, lightwaves....what is the structure of matter? think of ice, water, steam, same thing at different rates of vibration
our senses are set to tune into certain channels on the frequency spectrum, like a radio with pre-programmed stations. so is physical reality just the bandwidths we can tune into?
what are the upper and lower limits to the frequency spectrum?
thru the use of various techniques is it not feasible that we can temporarily and/or partially tune into other frequencies? of course, it just may be static and noise.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Clark]
    #604034 - 04/10/02 05:11 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Some of us just happen to like invasive bodily probes!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Swami]
    #604038 - 04/10/02 05:19 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

i always enjoy the one that goes thru the back of my skull and down my spine, must be sitting up tho, hate taking it lying down.

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Xlea321]
    #604203 - 04/10/02 10:48 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Alex123
"...why don't you prove aliens don't exist..."

LOL. Don't they teach logic in college nowadays? How does one go about proving a negative?

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: mr crisper]
    #604233 - 04/10/02 11:30 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Dunno. That one is a little too intense even for this hardened thrill-seeker. I kinda prefer the giant horse needle straight into the stomach...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Swami]
    #604552 - 04/10/02 05:03 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

As if aliens have nothing better to do than travel 500 light years to stick a probe up someones ass. A fine example of what a good job the media has done.

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #604561 - 04/10/02 05:10 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Some people will pay good money to have that done, do you think aliens are opposed to commuting to work? Alien proctologists are in high demand in my area of the country.

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OfflineCynicalMagician
enthusiast
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 231
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #604566 - 04/10/02 05:13 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

oh come on, if you had the ability to travel through time and space at will, wouldn't you go out of your way to jam things up people's asses? i know i would

......
...
.....

*shifty eyes*


--------------------
----------------------

"Order some golf shoes," I whispered. "Otherwise, we'll never get out of this place alive. You notice these lizards don't have any trouble moving around in this muck - that's because they have ~claws~ on their feet."

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #604571 - 04/10/02 05:17 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Heh

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #604710 - 04/10/02 08:05 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, I think I asked you to Prove that aliens exist with some evidence other than your beloved "experience", not the existence of your "experience" with aliens. I'm not trying to debunk you (I don't have to)... I JUST WANT SOME SIMPLE EVIDENCE.
If you really truly want that, I will give you evidence.
YES. That is what I want and I posit that it does not exist.
Something I can touch that is alien. A piece of alien hardware. Some alien tissue samples. Even a dime-size amount of some alien compound/alloy/element that is not found on earth and did not come from a flaming rock or comet.
So far, you unsuccessfully tap-danced around the first challenge. What's next?

Okay, telepathy...

But I think something like this could be done. It might take time, but I would love to participate, even though I'm not the worlds best or most efficient telepath. I'll start practicing.
You start practicing... until the test proves that telepathy is possible (cross-checking the results with some simple statistics), YOU CANNOT CLAIM THAT IT IS POSSIBLE. Sure, you can theorize and imagine, but from now on, I think you should end every post on the subject with a line similar to: Of course, none of this has been proven... it is based mainly on anecdotal evidence/personal experience.

I think this is fair, is it not?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineSofaJesus
journeyman
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 69
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #604727 - 04/10/02 08:30 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

What?s with all this talk about touching and probing each other in the rectory?

Is this the Catholic Church? ???


Don't get mad if your catholic please -- I was just playing around with your rectum


"......Oh Peter I just love it when you use topical humor.." -The Family Guy


--------------------
"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #604889 - 04/11/02 12:01 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

You apparently missed the February "Swami Challenge" where I had a $500 silver Hopi bracelet to give to anyone who could identify it telepathically, clairvoyantly or using remote viewing / astral travel.

You get one guess at the end-result of the one-month challenge...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #604911 - 04/11/02 12:33 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Don't they teach logic in college nowadays? How does one go about proving a negative?

LOL, obviously a far better college than you went to. Check out how they proved the sun wasn't the center of the universe.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Edited by Alex123 (04/11/02 09:54 AM)

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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #604986 - 04/11/02 03:08 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

actually i was being serious
but anyway...onto telepathy.

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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #605096 - 04/11/02 06:41 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Prove it? Come to my house........I am an alien.........

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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605105 - 04/11/02 06:56 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

How does one go about proving a negative?
can't you start by assuming the positive and by its direct implications reach a statement that is false?

- by the way i'm not saying anything about aliens, this is off topic

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #605347 - 04/11/02 11:48 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

YES. That is what I want and I posit that it does not exist.

You're right. As of yet there is no single piece of physical evidence that can be undeniably called from an alien source. However, we do have

Something I can touch that is alien.

I hear they have these pyramids in Egypt..
Prove that humans built them.

A piece of alien hardware.

Well if you aren't satifsfied by the computer you're typing on. (Microchip technology)
Do you mean something like this?
Or something like this?
I find it somewhat amusing that after the Roswell incident, there was a massive surge in technology. Industrial age to the Space age in less than 100 years under natural conditions? Not bloody likely. The Zeta aliens claim to have only been in contact with the US and Russian Governments at that time.

Some alien tissue samples

Tissue samples eh? I don't think we take tissue samples from aliens, I think it's the other way around right? Anyways, the US government would be the only group to have such a thing.. and I doubt you'll get anything from them about it right now.
But you could look at this

Need I even mention the crop circles and many videos of unidentified craft flying at impossible speeds and making impossible maneuvers compared to our best technology?
Or how about the many hundreds of credible witnesses who have said they will testify in front of Congress about their knowledge about aliens and UFOs as they saw when they were in the Government. Many of these people are very highly respected military personel. Respected police officers.. hell... they even have a Harvard professor.

I'm too lazy to find more evidence for you, and I have to go to work now. If that's not enough for you then oh well.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck... well.. chances are its a duck.

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Xlea321]
    #605351 - 04/11/02 11:54 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Alex123:
"Check out how they proved the sun wasn't the center of the universe."

Sorry, that isn't the same as proving the non-existence of something.

It would help if you could give an example of how to prove the non-existence of something, please state it in your own words. Try this one. How would you prove that there are no twelve foot tall crows with twelve wings?

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OfflineSofaJesus
journeyman
Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 69
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605369 - 04/11/02 12:20 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

It would help if you could give an example of how to prove the non-existence of something, please state it in your own words. Try this one. How would you prove that there are no twelve foot tall crows with twelve wings?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I would spend eternity cataloging every single thing that has ever existed at any point in time ?.. Then if no giant crows with 12wings showed up I would of proved their non-existence


--------------------
"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605395 - 04/11/02 12:40 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

"It would help if you could give an example of how to prove the non-existence of something"

Think you can prove the non-existence of 12 foot crows because the world is currently so populated that there is nowhere these creatures could fly without being seen.

But it's a meaningless argument because there is no frame of reference. You cannot prove the existence or non-existence of aliens in a place the size of the Universe when your frame of reference comprises one corner at the edge of one galaxy.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605535 - 04/11/02 03:25 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Don't run Shroomism.

1. That was not evidence of anything. Those were just links to websites with pictures, claims, and "eye-witness" testamonials. Did you know that just because the U.S. Government classified something (like a ufo "sighting") does not mean that it actually happened? "People don't lie to the government Sclorch, the government lies to them!" Yeah, no one has EVER cheated just a little bit on their taxes... And I don't see why a Harvard professor couldn't be capable of lying (or being mistaken- maybe he was a friend of Timothy's and got dosed unknowningly.... hehe).

2. You didn't even reply to the telepathy part of my last post.
remember this?:
you should end every post on the subject with a line similar to: Of course, none of this has been proven... it is based mainly on anecdotal evidence/personal experience.
I think this is fair, is it not?


But I do love the hasty retreat:
I'm too lazy to find more evidence for you, and I have to go to work now. If that's not enough for you then oh well.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Xlea321]
    #605568 - 04/11/02 04:10 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I'm sorry, but you've failed to demonstrate how you can prove the non-existence of something.

Alex123:
"But it's a meaningless argument because there is no frame of reference."

We're not measuring distance or relative speed here, what does a 'frame of reference' have to do with proving non-existence? Logic, syllogisms, set theory... do these terms mean anything to you?

Alex123:
"You cannot prove the existence or non-existence of aliens in a place the size of the Universe when your frame of reference comprises one corner at the edge of one galaxy."

You're partially right. However, the rules of logic don't care what size the universe is or your frame of reference. It is possible to prove the existence of aliens, if they exist. It is not possible to prove the non-existence of aliens if they don't exist.

So, when attempting to argue a point and asking the opposition to prove a negative you are asking for something that cannot logically be done and does nothing to bolster a position that attempts to argue for the existence of something. Proving a negative is not the same as invalidating a theory (like the sun is the center of the universe). A negative in the context of logical proof is an absence of something, non-existence.

Edited by evolving (04/11/02 04:16 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #605625 - 04/11/02 05:26 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

This is rather pointless because we both know there is no concrete evidence for either subject which you and I both knew. Of course, not anywhere did I claim that these things can be proven. You asked for it, so I made a half assed attempt at giving it to you, which I know is pointless. Also, in just about every post I make talking about aliens or telepathy I make it a point to say these things are based on my personal experience. Then you take the Swami approach and tell me to prove these things, which I cannot. Therefore, you win. I don't want to waste my time arguing a neverending battle which is ultimately a waste of energy for both parties. This is the Spirituality and Philosophy board, not prove your experiences to science.

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #605839 - 04/11/02 10:10 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

So how do you like my new signature?
Sad that it had to come to this, really.

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605841 - 04/11/02 10:12 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Oh.. the Earth is round

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605842 - 04/11/02 10:12 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

It's not about winning, it's about how you play the game.

Wait, I played much better... I did win.
Woo fucking hoo.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605848 - 04/11/02 10:17 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's kind of catchy... but you only have to use it in posts which you mention any aliens or telepathy.  If you use it as a signature for every post, there is an aire of sarcasm to it... people won't really understand that you mean it. :smile: 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605904 - 04/11/02 11:33 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

next thing you know he's going to want your lunch money... i'm guessing that you'll give it to him.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #605921 - 04/11/02 11:48 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

We're not measuring distance or relative speed here, what does a 'frame of reference' have to do with proving non-existence? Logic, syllogisms, set theory... do these terms mean anything to you?

Sorry but logic won't help you if the alien planet is 300 billion light years away. Do you understand? How can you prove they exist when you can never reach where they exist? Forget about the logic theory you did half a semester on and use common sense.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Xlea321]
    #606014 - 04/12/02 01:36 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Alex123,
"Sorry but logic won't help you if the alien planet is 300 billion light years away."

Why not? The principles of correct reasoning can work regardless of distances.


Alex123,
"Do you understand?

I understand perfectly, you are unable and/or unwilling to grasp the concept I was trying to convey. It was foolish of me to have attempted to reason with you.


Alex123,
"How can you prove they exist when you can never reach where they exist?"

How do you know they exist if you can never reach where they exist? Anyway, I was not attempting to prove the existence of 'them' nor did I ever state that 'they' didn't exist. I was addressing your challenge, "...why don't you prove aliens don't exist..." The purpose being to point out the fact that proving non-existence is a logical impossibility.


Alex123,
"Forget about the logic theory you did half a semester on and use common sense."

Logic is not a theory. Webster's defines it as, "the science of correct reasoning; the science which deals with the criteria of valid thought." and "correct reasoning; valid induction or deduction; as, logic shows us a better course."

As far as 'common sense,' that appears to be relative to what's common in your personal existence. In my life, if my 'common sense' does not include a great deal of logic, people's businesses will be ruined and for the woman who raised me, lives may have been lossed. I'm guessing that you're probably not designing the next NASA space vehicle.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #606269 - 04/12/02 10:21 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I was addressing your challenge, "...why don't you prove aliens don't exist..."

I was pointing out to the guy that proving aliens exist is as valid as proving they don't exist. Neither is possible because if they live 300 billion light years away in an alternate universe we are unlikely to to encounter them are we.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Xlea321]
    #612182 - 04/18/02 05:47 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

can anyone prove that even having physical evidence will actually prove that something exists? If I show you some physical evidence that proves the existence of something, then all we have is two people who believe in something. And if the whole world sees the physical evidence and believes it. We have made somthing real by sheer will. Belief in something precedes physical evidence.
Reality flows inside out. From within ourselves. I can prove this with deductive logic but it would only be real to those who believe

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: infidelGOD]
    #612211 - 04/18/02 06:31 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I can prove this with deductive logic but it would only be real to those who believe
If you can only "prove" to a selective audience, then that fails the definition of proof.

My 4 year-old niece thinks that I am the best magician in the world. Amazing the praise and acceptance one can get if you select your audience.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineWeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #612695 - 04/19/02 07:00 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

hmmmmmm Can somebody actually prove that quarks exist?
Nobody can see them..... I can say : Give me hard evidence that quarks exist and I will believe . Did you saw them? Did anybody saw them? Did you saw atom? Not pictures.. but did YOU saw atom. If you didn't then you cant say they exist.
Don't get me wrong I didn't say that they don't exist but all this look like that to me.
When I was kid I saw some strange flying object. Big, with different colored lights.
It fly with NO sound and in very odd angles. My mother was with me and she saw it too. We both saw same thing. Ok I don't say that that was alien ship..but what was that?
We saw it from very close distance ( some 100 meters ).
Can anybody give me some logic explanation?

On the other hand, more then few people I know experience astral projection. How many people here experience it? More then few is my guess.

I read somewhere that Russian scientist proved existence of bioelectric field around people (aura?).


If you experience telepathy would you believe?
But you want believe till you experience it for yourself.
And after that experience someone say prove it. I cant ( nobody can prove it over internet). But why I should? Believe in what you want..thats called freedom.
Just don't force that on others.

---------weird-------






--------------------
----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: WeirdShroomer]
    #612949 - 04/19/02 01:55 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Nobody can see them..... I can say : Give me hard evidence that quarks exist and I will believe .
The computer that you are using is partially based on quantuum physics.

after that experience someone say prove it. I cant ( nobody can prove it over internet).
Of course they "could" if they had such a gift. I did an experiment in February that could have easily convinced me over the internet. Eveybody failed - no one was even close.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: WeirdShroomer]
    #613116 - 04/19/02 05:28 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

weirdshroomer-
You really need to work on your grammar/spelling skills. My head started to throb halfway through your post. I hope that English is your second language... a fifth grader wouldn't make mistakes like "Did anybody saw them?".


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #613129 - 04/19/02 05:47 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

English is his second language.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #613130 - 04/19/02 05:49 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Well then, I withdraw my dissent.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #613138 - 04/19/02 06:00 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

wow, sclorch you're so skilled !

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: raytrace]
    #613152 - 04/19/02 06:20 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)



Thank you?


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineWeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Swami]
    #613158 - 04/19/02 06:25 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Nobody can see them..... I can say : Give me hard evidence that quarks exist and I will believe .
The computer that you are using is partially based on quantuum physics.
I still cant see quarks. You didn't prove anything.

Anyway that wasn't point.

Please give me explanation for "flying object".
Logical one. ( just don't say that I'm laying cause I don't...see, I cant prove anything....but ok, I'm not asking you to believe me. Just assume that's true )

after that experience someone say prove it. I cant ( nobody can prove it over internet).
Of course they "could" if they had such a gift. I did an experiment in February that could have easily convinced me over the internet. Everybody failed - no one was even close.

Telepathy need contact. How can anyone contact you?
First you don't even believe in telepathy.
You don't know personally people who tried ( If they tried ) to contact you.
My opinion?
You didn't prove anything

Scorch It is second language. I learned alone. But I still learn.
( Forums/chat are best places to learn language...books too )
Oh yes.....

"Did anybody saw them?" and right is?


------weird-------




--------------------
----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: WeirdShroomer]
    #613179 - 04/19/02 06:45 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Give me hard evidence that quarks exist and I will believe .

The computer that you are using is partially based on quantuum physics.

You didn't prove anything.


You received and responded to my reply using a deviced based on transistors which are based on quantuum theory of which quarks are an integral part. Sorry if this straight-line logic is beyond you.

Anyway that wasn't point.
Now the backstepping begins...

Please give me explanation for "flying object".
There is insufficient information to form a hypothesis. Even if it was unusual, you described nothing that would be indicative of an alien pilot.

Telepathy need contact. How can anyone contact you?
According to popular definitions, telepathy may occur over great distances.

First you don't even believe in telepathy.
What is your point? That I must believe BEFORE I believe?

You don't know personally people who tried ( If they tried ) to contact you.
ESP proponents on this board said they tried to.

My opinion? You didn't prove anything
I demonstrated that during that one month, every participant espousing telepathy, clairvoyance or remote-viewing failed to describe the object.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineWeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Swami]
    #613210 - 04/19/02 07:21 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

You received and responded to my reply using a deviced based on transistors which are based on quantuum theory of which quarks are an integral part. Sorry if this straight-line logic is beyond you
BUT I STILL CANT SEE QUARKS
And of course I believe in quarks. I said that in my first post.

"Don't get me wrong I didn't say that they don't exist but all this look like that to me."
You did get me wrong?

Telepathy need contact. How can anyone contact you?
First you don't even believe in telepathy.
You don't know personally people who tried to contact you.
My opinion?
You didn't prove anything

You really love to take things out of context.

Telepathy need contact. That mean mental contact.
You are not open to contact. THAT'S MY POINT

-----weird-------

And Im talking about telepathy only.


--------------------
----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Swami]
    #613227 - 04/19/02 07:42 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Ok.... logic.
Your cutting and dissecting of a group of sentences that build on each other destroys the integrity of the message. Each of the questions were part of a whole, yet you cut them up into pieces and responded as if they were seperate. Cutting messages up into little pieces and responding to them individually is good in some cases, but not when it is a complete paragraph and you cut it up and respond to a sentence that relies on a previous sentence for support, as if it were standing alone.

Example:
Telepathy need contact. How can anyone contact you?
First you don't even believe in telepathy.
You don't know personally people who tried ( If they tried ) to contact you.
My opinion? You didn't prove anything


This is obviously a complete statement, not a group of sentences that are standing alone without support. The first two sentences are quite obviously dependant on the next two questions/statements.
But, you cut them up like this

Telepathy need contact. How can anyone contact you?
According to popular definitions, telepathy may occur over great distances.

First you don't even believe in telepathy.
What is your point? That I must believe BEFORE I believe?

You don't know personally people who tried( If they tried ) to contact you.
ESP proponents on this board said they tried to.

My opinion? You didn't prove anything
I demonstrated that during that one month, every participant espousing telepathy, clairvoyance or remote-viewing failed to describe the object.

Need I describe the illogical nature of this type of response?

Also,

Please give me explanation for "flying object".
There is insufficient information to form a hypothesis. Even if it was unusual, you described nothing that would be indicative of an alien pilot.

Nor did he say he thought it might have an alien pilot. This is called jumping to conclusions.

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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #613229 - 04/19/02 07:42 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

lol, i see... and in which grade am i supposed to learn this?

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Anonymous

Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #613234 - 04/19/02 07:45 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

Let's say I have a tent that is supported by four poles, and I say, look at what a great tent this is! And then some guy comes along and says, well let me see here.. and takes one of the poles out and says "Hey this pole has a ding in it", and then takes another one out and says "Hey this one is kind of crooked", and then takes a third one out and says "This pole is miscolored", and then he looks at me and says.. "Your tent sucks... it doesn't even stand up"


.... You see what I'm getting at here?

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OfflineWeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: ]
    #613245 - 04/19/02 08:05 PM (22 years, 2 months ago)

lol

I think that my tent is still holding...I think

-------weird--------
But Im ilogical creature, right?


--------------------
----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: raytrace]
    #613396 - 04/20/02 12:10 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

raytrace-
Look... you started the sarcasm shite (ie. personal attack). I really am sorry that you kAnT Typp pRoperlee. Christ, get over it. So I made a mistake (I'll admit it, I didn't know English was WS's second language)... I corrected myself (I could have just deleted my post, but I don't do that), and what did you do? You attacked me. Why? Probably because you didn't agree with my prior posts... I really don't know though. So then we continue with the polarization (which I am not condoning) of the forum.

I wouldn't throw out a tent unless it completely useless. Sure, I pointed out the leaky roof... I was the one getting wet. Even though I didn't put the hole there, I still told you how to fix it.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Shroomism vs. Reality [Re: Sclorch]
    #613568 - 04/20/02 05:47 AM (22 years, 2 months ago)

1. i am not a "believer" (though, i don't base all my life on logic, i still am human)

2. i don't "not agree with your prior posts". by the way i find them very interesting!

3. i was particularly disturbed by the specific post (to which i pressed "reply" before you corrected it, but i might made the comment anyway)

3. if i kAnT Typp pRoperlee, is because
a. english is my second language
b. i am mainly concerned of expressing something, not being linguisticly correct.

4. if you feel yourself superior to others because of your grammar/spelling skills, Christ, get over it.

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