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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: HELL [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2175213 -

answer my question fireworks, NOW!


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: HELL [Re: Positronius]
    #2175232 -

Your response shows that you have absolutely no comprehension of what I wrote about. MY subjective 'belief' in GOD has nothing to do with the Reality which I referred to here as Hell. Moreover, my experience of GOD's Reality, and the beliefs that I adopt after-the-fact has nothing whatsoever to do with how I regard another individual's belief or lack of belief in GOD. You are responding to your own complete misunderstanding of what I wrote.

Hell is a metaphysical Reality that exists prior to [-meta] the physical world. That does not only mean it was a Reality 'before' the universe of space-time was created, it also means that Hell is ontologically prior - it exists eternally and independently of the created universe because it is defined as having eternal existence. Theologically, Hell is not a construct of the human mind and it is not alienation from a belief. It is alienation from the Ecstasy [Greek: beside outside oneself] of partaking of the Divine Presence. The life of the Blessed, as well as the life of the damned (Union with, or alienation from GOD) begins here and now, while human and capable of exercising our Will in favor of Ultimate Reality, or against It. I'm not talking psychology here, I'm talking theology. I may be in a position to make psychological evaluations in this life, but I am not in a position to determine your eternal destiny.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: HELL [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2175236 -

Thanks man. No, I like being with Seekers and Finders. I have here a Little Zen Calendar page from 12/9/03 which is a quote from Pablo Picasso. It says "I do not seek. I find." I feel badly for those who do neither.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: HELL [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2175243 -

ah.. case closed.

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Re: HELL [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2175246 -

markos, you said: Hell is alienation from GOD. This refers to a condition of eternal existence 'outside of' the Divine Presence


which implies a BELIEF IN A DIVINE PRESENCE, yes? and to not believe in this divine presence is to be alienated from it.

so i responded that it is delusional to think that a DIVINE PRESENCE is a universal truth, and that not believing in this divine presence -thusly being alienated from it - is hell.

I fully understood your comment buck-o.

markos: Theologically, Hell is not a construct of the human mind and it is not alienation from a belief. It is alienation from the Ecstasy [Greek: beside outside oneself] of partaking of the Divine Presence

yes, im sure that makes sense to someone who believes in "the divine presence".


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: HELL [Re: Positronius]
    #2175248 -

pos - 1
mark - 0 (rebuttal pending)

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Re: HELL [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2175365 -

Quote:
Deiymiyan said:

What is "Hell"? :devil:



Hell is the possibility of Salvation.

If you've ever been there, you'll remember that Salvation is just about the only game in town.

If you haven't... lucky you.

Not The End (2.3mb mp3) :wink:

.

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Re: HELL [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2175490 -

"Equillibrium has a tendance to stay that way until it is taken out of balance. Once the snowball begins to move, through input to the snowball, or within the snowball, the particular potential of the hill's slope begins to take hold. The transformation is that of expression in terms of kinetic. Kinetic can be overlapped and caused to form a loop called a feed-back loop, where you can incorperate individual inputs from various locations and come up with an augmanted resulting expression."

so wait are you saying then that only through hell can the potential energy (in the snow ball) be exerted??

I think positive thoughts have a flow as well. I think you can go down the cliff, it dpepends on what moved the system to begin with. if it was the positive thoughts then that's how the potenetial energy of the system is turning into kinetic. is what you were saying as well or no???

I think chaos is the energy that drives the positive or negative emotions.

what I meant by a mass (which was a really bad word to use btw) I meant as a single person. but either way your analogy works.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: HELL [Re: Positronius]
    #2176538 -

In response to belief in the Divine Presense, I'll quote C.G. Jung from his 1961 BBC interview, when he was asked if he believed in GOD. Jung said, "I do not need to believe - I Know."


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: HELL [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2176571 -

Wow, you can quote someone who believes, whats your point?


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: HELL [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2199972 -

... To further this.. recall the snowball on the hill analogy...


On top of this hill, there is a room.

And in that room is a door.



Remember, being in equillibrium will have you at MAX POTENTIAL... so at the top of the hill...


Once in the room, everyone from their own position can step through the door.


What is on the other side ?.. That is a surprise!


Note: I specifically said "everyone from their own position".. And not everyone at the SAME SPOT! ..It's obvious that if everyone were at the same spot that we'd have a pile-up and everyone would get annoyed with one another... Thus, there would be no BALANCE anymore !!!




I am out of time... I must feast now! M - M - M !! DINNER !!!


I will give the analysis of this thread at a later date!



Happy Holidays EVERYONE !!!


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Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: HELL [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #2201155 -

positronius- makro the gnostic - the ancient question of weather or not there is a divine prescence is most certainly not going to be resolved in absolute terms now or i would suspect ever. However, personal revelation IS possible, and i suspect Marko the gnostic has experienced it. HAving an experience is a personal thing and it is bound to have a personal effect on ones beliefs. If marko has felt the divine presence he indeed does not need to think, he DOES know.

Weather his Knowing is right compared to your Knowing is irrelevant, knowing and thinking are essentially identical, truth is not absolute when transmitted from one person to another.

As for hell being seperation from the divine prescence, for someone like marko who believes in and has felt this prescence as perfection, love, beuty etc, then hell can be no other thing than seperation from that prescence (therefore seperation from love, beuty and all good things)

if we are going to be talking about hell at all it will obviously be in the context of a divine god, after all the inventors of god and the inventors of hell are one and the same, and belief in either one is invariably connected with belief in the other. SO why call each other delusional? It is far from delusional to believe something based on your own knowledge. THe fact that to someone who does not share that knowledge it SEEMS delusional is irrelevant, as i mentioned universal truth is non existant or else as i suspect it is far beyone the comprehension of any one human.

What it comes down to is what you get out of it. regardless of weather markos's belief will ever be proved in rational, logical or scientific terms, through that belief he has gained a glimpse of love, security, joy, wisdom etc that will help him and guide him through life. Does your world view offer the same, or does it make your feel angry, nihilistic, materialist, shallow etc?

For me this is what matters. Buddhist or christian or hindu or jewish or existentialist, if your philosophy gives you personal happyness and positively influences your dealings with others, thats all that really counts.


PS. early someone said that he percieved hell as follows : "contemplate an eternal state of one's own mere self-awareness" i did so and the following though came to mind : sounds like nirvana. ANyone who thinks your own self awarness is boring should try lieing in a sensory deprivation tank. Boredom comes from our physical surroundings when they are repetitive and offer no engaging stimulus. Remove external stimulus and youll glimpse real 'self awareness' which is far from boring

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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