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InvisibleCrasher
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Scary thoughts on hell
    #319694 - 05/17/01 10:30 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

I think, that just maybe, we are already in hell. (not really, but more of a what if). This is my description of hell. You are born into hell, not realizing that you're in hell. You are raised, believing that you will either go to hell, or heaven. You spend your life trying to be good, so you won't spend the rest of your eternity in hell. But you're already there and you don't know it. So you die, and instead of heaven, you start over again, not knowing where you are (still in hell). And this is eternity. Being born, and trying to escape a place you don't even know you're stuck in. dying, and doing it over and over again, never grasping the fact that you're already in hell. That my friends, is the worst thing i can imagine hell being

Nothing of what I say is a personal matter. All cultivation questions are on behalf of counterparts who risk growing. I take no responsibility in being the messenger.


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Give me silence, water, hope;
Give me struggle, iron, volcanoes...


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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #319803 - 05/18/01 01:16 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

or....

"Down through circles and trenches. Down and down into the screaming rock and the molten flesh of Hell.

"Down where lovers, who have promised never to part, are fused together in a tangle of shrieking flesh. Towering, selfless love turned into hate and madness.

"Down through infinite arctic wastes where people wander alone and naked and freezing, never reaching any destination.

"Through the streets of suffering cities where the stones of the houses bleed and beg forgiveness. Where taps drip and fires don't light and hearts burn endlessly,

"Where men and women are made monstrously huge. Bodies so big they cannot move. They can only scream and cry out as other damned creatures burrow and build in their flesh.

"Down and down.

"And down through the pointless grinding banality of Hell."




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Invisibleshroom-girlie
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #319819 - 05/18/01 01:35 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

I think that your thinking is correct. This world is probably another planets hell. If you believe in reincarnation then this will make sense.



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"Express yourself completely then become quiet."


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Offline~`Tursiops truncatus`~
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: shroom-girlie]
    #319915 - 05/18/01 05:21 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

That's an interesting concept, but what would if any be the way to asend out of this ''hell"



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OfflineMind Mage
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #319938 - 05/18/01 06:48 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

I find it interisting that sp far all the post think of hell as having some content. I think that being in a place of nothing for eternity would be more of a hell.... just you... no body... no blackness... no nothing just your "ego" ''soul' "spirit" or what ever you consider the core of what you are. Personaly if I had to choose I'd pick burning for eternity than nothing, at least then you have some thing. "god' once had nothing... I don't think he liked it very much, that would be a good reason to create every thing. :wink:

. .  .  .    .    .      .      .        .        .          .          .


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. . . . . . . . . . . .


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OfflineChonger
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Mind Mage]
    #319946 - 05/18/01 07:17 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

I dont really beleive in heaven or hell. The reason being, is I beleive there exists all levels of "heaven's characteristics" and "hells Characteristics" and everywhere in between.
What gets me most is that people think when you die you will be judged upon the deeds you committed in life and sent to either destination. I think this is particularly a load of crap because what about people who were reeeaally good, never even thought a bad thought and went to heaven as did a person who wasn't exactly good, but still just about managed to get into heaven. That wouldn't be fair on the really good person then, because they would not be rewarded anymore than the other guy.

I think both places are just states of mind, and we have the power to choose our eternal resting place, or choose to be reincarnated whever we like......




Peaceful Pussycat


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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy


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Anonymous

Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Chonger]
    #319955 - 05/18/01 08:00 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

I don't really believe in either Heaven nor Hell in the typical sense.
But, one interesting philosophy I heard several years ago really stuck with. This is all based on what one rather intelligent person told me who claimed he had done the research on it (he didn't formulate the idea, but he confirmed it). Parts are based soley on assumption, other parts he acted as tho metaphysics, quantumphysics, whatever allowed for it/confirmed it. If I mess parts up, sorry, the memory is rusty...
There are an infinite number of dimensions basically identical to our own. Except on one "end" every single choice made by every single individual there was the "right" one. This place is heaven. Right next door is a dimension identical in all ways, except that one "wrong" decision was made. Each following dimension had one more "wrong" choice made until you get to the realm where every choice was "wrong" and that is hell. I can't remember any more details (it's a shame, because there was some really sound logic behind it).
I'll try to get in touch with Ian for more info, but has anybody else heard anything similar?? When it was fresh in my mind, it made a hell of a lot of sense.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thoughts follow my vision and dance in the sun


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Offlinegribochek
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: ]
    #319989 - 05/18/01 09:32 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Peachman, when you say "right" decision and "wrong" decision, what do the words "right" and "wrong" signify? "Right" and "wrong" for what?



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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: ]
    #320044 - 05/18/01 11:52 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

peachman...sound like your friend has a good grasp on the subject IMO....except you mentioned "right next door is the identical..." this gets to be a bit confusing whereas I see it as identical yet opposite(?) if that makes any sense....

take christians' 10 commandments 'thou shalt not kill" (no shit huh!!) if one kills thier mind/spirit/soul is going to be undoubtedly in a funky place. Moreso than after life(?) I think we place ourselves in heaven/hell moment to moment in this life, kinda like being mentally in a really bad neiborhood/place (ie drugs,guns,death all around) as opposed to serene/peacefull placement. Spirit following mind/body actions and visa-versa, proper placement on all levels equates to heavenly bliss.....

As to it being eternal afterlife personally I think its more of a dis-embodied review of last life,rolling right on back to try again with a bit more knowledge than previous. Not to say your going to only focus on improving, perhaps flawed somehow and need to come back as even more of a fuck up to lead to eventual demise......

Most theries of mainstream religion are mearly scare tactics, pathetic IMO to teach children 'do right or eternally burn in hell'......



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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #320050 - 05/18/01 11:59 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

o-yea as to the origional ques? I think you put yourself in heaven or hell at the present moment....and to put yourself in heaven is kinda bucking tthe trend so for majority I would have to agree. This is why IMO plant/fungi techers can be usefull in life. Try naturally duplicate those moments of bliss.....thats what its all about cuz it just don't work to be high all the time, its about remembering! Here and there...from one life to the next.....



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InvisiblePsilosopher
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #320349 - 05/18/01 07:41 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Interesting thought.  Know much about buddhism?  It basically states the same about how life is an endless cycle of birth and rebirth, and every time suffering is involved.  This cycle may only be broken through enlightenment, and reaching nirvana (or paranirvana, i forgot which one;))




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Anonymous

Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #320582 - 05/19/01 01:21 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

I believe we create our own hell. I agree to an extent that this plane that we live on resembles hell.
We have the ability to choose our own destiny. That is the greatest gift humans have been given - Free will.
If you choose to live your life with hatred, contempt, self-degrading thoughts, etc etc.... then I believe you are living in hell, creating it for yourself.
However you can choose another way and live life to its fullest, experiencing everything you can, with infinite love for all things.
Though I know that when a person dies, and is still stuck in the physical world, they will continue living there until they are shown another way out. A spiritual being that still thinks it is in the physical world is a nightmare in itself. This can happen when people die suddenly, or are so attached to the physical world they just can't let go. After they die, they don't realize they have left the physical world, and continue doing the things they did in life, perhaps reliving the same day of their death over and over again. That is hell in my book.



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Offlinefun_guy
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #320733 - 05/19/01 08:01 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

I think that people can apply an interpretation of hell onto any horrible situation, such as that you described, or various ideas from throughout history. For example, I think it was an ancient Greek or Roman vision of hell that involved a group of people sitting round a banquet table loaded with good grub. Each person was tied to a long firk that was longer than their own arms. The vision of heaven was identical in every way except that in hell they could never get the food to their mouths because the forks were too long. In heaven, they had the same forks but they were feeding each other.

I think that's quite neat, but as with other interpretations, it's just a metaphor. I don't think we humans can conceive of what hell or heaven are. That said, it *is* interesting to speculate!



--------------------
"Right now I am lying to you"


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Offlineque
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Psilosopher]
    #321298 - 05/20/01 12:37 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Buddhism...naaa not really i've mostly done my own footwork and visions tell the stories...limited reading..(dying a few times helps a lot too;)..visions with a bit less color and flair than this one...but i believe this recent tale has some content? you tell me? it will sometimes take months to put these together ...still unsure as to many?


....sliding down a shattered prismatic multi-colored neon tube into a hall with eyes coming to a rift out of catacombs of egyptian bird-headed gods and staring into the faces of thingys you usually only catch a glimpse of out of the corner of your eye I found it!! the interworkings! but of what? like the inside of a watch all gears layered in a proto-plasmisic green neon gel....the smooth running of this hyperspacial clockworks is due to the great effort of elves, slipping and sliding up, down and inbetween all the parts. I was told what it all meant in great detail, too great of detail, i could not understand?
everything went dark, dark and foreboding....
I now found myself in front of huge gates with the fires of hell licking through the cracks....out of curiosity i asked for entrance?....denied!....my curiosity grew more, now i found myself begging on my hands and knees ' I MUST KNOW!!!'....a huge booming voice shook me....."YOU ARE PLACED IN THE BLISSFULL INTERWORKINGS OF THE UNIVERSE THAT MANY CALL HEAVEN WITHOUT SO MUCH AS A SLIGHT REQUEST AND NOW YOU ARE ON YOUR HANDS AND KNEE'S BEGGING TO ENTER THE GATES OF HELL!?!?!?!?!.....STUPID HUMANS!!! HAHAHAHAHA.....
I was thrust back to the elf filled world of oz feeling qute stupid....thinking "i've been duped".....a small voice answered my thoughts saying..."yes but by whom?"

note:so many, many times have i've been told STUPID HUMANS!!<~alien phrase)
but then again 'WE LIKE YOU'<~elf phrase).....also often mentioned.......




Edited by que on 05/20/01 12:51 AM.



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OfflineVision Quest
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #321368 - 05/20/01 03:03 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Interesting thoughts, man. Here are my beliefs concerning Heaven and Hell.

I think there is no Hell the way most people see it. It makes no sense that God would want to punish souls for "sins" -- things they have done in life -- becuase God wouldn't allow you to do something "wrong." That doesn't mean to me that it is okay to murder or anything radical like that. I don't think you can do something "wrong" or "bad" in God's eyes at all. You can't undermind God and make the whole process or divine plan or whatever not work. I think our universe is God. That is the best scientific understanding at least. I see God as all that exists in the universe, all that we experience.

I still do think there is a Hell though. Many people who see Hell as the place where God sends souls to punish them justify the existence of Hell by describing Hell as the polar opposite of Heaven. If you believe in Heaven then you believe in Hell, because they can't exist without each other. This is entirely true. You can't consider yourself a "good" person unless there are "bad" people for you to compare yourself to. The people who believe in an angry God have failed to prove that Hell is where God sends souls which he has judges as being "bad" within the realm of possibilities that God created for us. I think we all go to the same place, Heaven, after death, and the opposite of Heaven or death is actually life, or incarnation. So, this is Hell. Every day here on earth is a day in Hell.

Hell is actually not very bad at all. I think I like Hell.

PLEASE MAKE THE FUCKING SIGNATURES LONGER. I HAVE A GOOD QUOTE I WANT TO USE!!!


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[red]PLEASE MAKE THE FUCKING SIGNATURES LONGER. I HAVE A GOOD QUOTE I WANT TO USE!!![/red]


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OfflinewhyIdied
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: que]
    #322387 - 05/21/01 02:07 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

Que, man; that's some crazy shit! Yes, the interworkings...I've never heard it called that, but it has a nice ring to it...have you ever been to the place where abstract ideas are congregated in groups of grey rooms?

As for hell - it is very important to avoid! It was pretty stupid to want to get in: better to ask for an understanding of it than to be in it - but anyways...
I think hell is actually the reality that some people seriously want to be seperated from God for all eternity. God offers salvation from sin: everybody knows that (Jesus), but some people truly aren't interested in being anywhere near God. Now, since God is the author of all that is existant (the "I AM"), the only "place" He can put those people is a place where existance is as far from itself as possible. It's really hard to write - but the concept I've heard about most is: ETERNAL SEPERATION FROM GOD.

...slow moves, sweet feet...


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...slow moves, sweet feet...


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: whyIdied]
    #323754 - 05/22/01 11:05 PM (16 years, 5 days ago)

Amartia - 'missing the mark,' in Greek, is the word for 'sin.' Yes, estrangement from God is the standard Christian theological formulation. Hitting the mark, the 'bull's eye' is synonymous with the 'narrow way' to salvation in the Biblical tradition, or 'the razor's edge' in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. Being left with anything of ourselves in an eternal condition would be Hell. Only That which is transcendental, beyond form, increasingly expansive, increasingly beautiful, ultimately fulfilling, etc., etc. will sustain the ecstasy of Hell's opposite notion. Eye has not seen, nor mind conceived of that glory - but as one can read even at the Shroomery - mind can conceive of very creatively distressing and disgusting Hells. Nightmares, psychotic states, Boschian landscapes, Matrix-like films, Gigeresque aliens and more are easily concocted by our unconscious and very Human imaginations. Ram Dass used to talk about people who went to horror films to experience facsimilie hells. Why? People are already alienated from God, and in that sense, are already experiencing their own private Hells. Movies provide a fanciful visit to other conceptions. Guilt-ridden neurotics who feel that they've not suffered enough create symptoms to punish themselves with. Yesterday I met an Auschwitz survivor who suffers from nightmares still. His pain is not neurotic, it is real. He has experienced Hell-on-Earth more real than anyone else I've met. He has also lost faith in God, in the possibility of transcending suffering (Heaven/Nirvana).
I gave him a business card to do hypnotherapy with him - no fee. I hope he takes me up on it, and I hope that the degree of his pain is not beyond my technical ability to restore to him the means for transcending his Hell. I think this is the Bodhisattva in me, and the meaning of the Catholic doctrine in which Christ 'descended into Hell,' in the creed. Sorry for the ramble, but your theological response got me going.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleG-nome
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #325029 - 05/24/01 01:37 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

My hell will be I'll have a fat blunt and no lighter.

"Getting an inch of snow is like winning ten cents in the lottery." - Calvin


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"Getting an inch of snow is like winning ten cents in the lottery." - Calvin
The Free Spore Ring - the best damn thing since sliced bread?


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: Crasher]
    #325202 - 05/24/01 05:18 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Do yourself a favor and read the tradeback (full series issue #1-7) of the comic book Johnny The Homicidal Maniac by Jhonen Vasquez. Watch your idea come to life in ink and paper.


Repent! Repent! Floss Often!


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Scary thoughts on hell [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #325305 - 05/24/01 06:59 PM (16 years, 3 days ago)

Amartia, that corresponds to Dr. Wilhelm Reich's diagnosis that humanity suffers from "pleasure-anixety", an internal fear that causes us to repress our "primary drives" and always substitute "secondary" and "substitute" goals...
Anyways, I think that's great that you've offered your help to the Auschwitz survivor that you've met... My mother is a psychotherapist at a psychiatric ward of a hospital. I'm skeptical if she and her coworkers really are able to offer any help to their patients at all. When she comes home from work, it seems as if a part of her is still there, and the dinner table conversation is full of complaining about the staff psychiatrist, antics of patients, and cynacism - the same with my stepfather, it's their fucked up way of unwinding, and I've always found it kind of distatestful and obnoxious. She generally views her job as boring, although at work she plays quite a role, she's like a totally different person there and her coworkers have this idea that she's some saintly wise person, though at home she's the terribly obsessive-compulsive and anxiety driven. My stepfather watches T.V. the entire evening and my mom sits on the other end of the couch reading a book for the entire night, M-Th ALWAYS (they go out for a beer on Friday) and are in bed by 11 always- conversation is minimal, shallow, and usually cynical and directed towards news programs or whatever new fashion their house needs. It's a small town, so when I'm visiting and we're around town, patients she's had some decade ago will run up to her and hug her and thank her and she's always in a hurry to get away from them pronto. And of course she gets several LSD flip outs a year which has biased her opinion of it(the new flip out drug of choice in this areas is actually a prescription drug opiate derivitive called oxycotin, so she says), and as totally cynical and anxious about me and my drug use and inclination to weird religions (which she inevitably discovered years ago), which sucks because it sure seems like she could use some. Ok, now I'm just rambling, and badmouthing my folks to boot (Sorry ma!). But, my point is that I'm pretty skeptical about modern psychology these days, because the unawakened psychologist can only help the patient substitute his game for that of the psychologists, the psychotherapy is just as high as the psychotherapist. As Ram Dass has said, if the psychotherapist was a Buddha, the patient would achieve enlightenment. So, I just thought that was cool that you offered that guy help for free, sincerity and compassion aren't the social norm in the business... I don't know about myself, having majored in psychology/philosophy... and maybe english... yadayada.. am gonna fair. I'm totally sick of academics, I wanna drop out... maybe find a different alternative school that meets my needs someday. It feels 100% WRONG, the models of achievement, everything... it's no aid to me realizing my own potential. I think my whole motivation towards psychology as an 18 year old kid was over-inflated ideas about my own importance, like i'd be the next Tim Leary, start some kindah revolution. Isn't that terrible?.... I'm thinking of becoming a glassblower and work on other arts-crafts while I teach myself and realize more of my potential.... that is, if my parents don't kill me. Ok, I shut up now... but first, a question: What kind of activities would be good karma yoga for somebody my age? It sure ain't offering advice to people through the shroomery... hahah. Maybe I oughta join the Peace Corps errr sumpthin'....
anyways, be well, peace/cj




Repent! Repent! Floss Often!


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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